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Nov 3, 2011 5:24 PMPublication: The East Hampton Press

Empire Blue Cross Blue Shield Confirms Plan To Drop Most Small Group Plans In New York

Nov 8, 2011 4:36 PM

Empire Blue Cross Blue Shield, the state’s largest health insurer and one of the largest for small businesses, announced to health insurance brokers on Friday that it will eliminate most of its small group plans in the New York market effective April 1, 2012, and is slashing its financial incentives for brokers to sell those products—a move one industry insider has said would be “catastrophic” for the insurance marketplace.

In a statement, Empire, also the biggest insurer on the East End, said it will reduce the number of plans offered to small groups and will offer fewer PPO, HMO and EPO plans, but claimed it has no intention of withdrawing from the market—a point with which brokers disagree.

“The products that they’re withdrawing from the markets are the ones that were competitive. The ones that they’re leaving in the market are the ones that are less cost competitive. Effectively, they’re pulling out of the small-group marketplace,” Craig I. Hasday, the legislative chair of the New York State Association of Health Underwriters, the professional trade association representing health insurance brokers and employee benefits consultants, explained on Friday morning.

Mr. Hasday also claimed that Empire would “virtually eliminate” compensation to brokers, switching from a flat 4-percent commission to a $5 per contract per month basis. “That’s a dramatic cut,” he said.

Empire’s statement says it is sensitive to the economic challenges facing small businesses, and its goal is to offer affordable health insurance plans to New York’s small businesses—but that it has had financial losses in the small group business that it called unsustainable.

“Several factors are driving our need to increase rates: health provider charges have gone up; fewer small group employers and employees are purchasing coverage so those remaining face higher costs; we are experiencing the effects of adverse selection in our risk pool; and, there have been reductions in state subsidies that previously served to lower cost and premiums for certain mandated products,” Empire’s statement reads.

On Tuesday, Mark Wagar, the president and CEO of Empire, said the move was not simply a bargaining ploy, saying that the state has not yet acted on its requested rates. He also said the fact that Empire’s parent company, WellPoint, reported a profit of $4.7 billion in 2009, according to published reports, was unrelated to the recent decision.

Rather, Mr. Wagar said that Empire has been quietly losing money in its small-group business for the last four years.

“This has its origins in the continuing decline in the number of small companies that offer health coverage,” the CEO said. “And even within the ones that offer health coverage, more and more workers, because of the increasing medical costs that drive up premiums, elect not to purchase it.”

As for the businesses and clients, Mr. Wagar said that he expects many to remain with Empire and choose one of the continued products. He said in the long term, new affordable approaches and programs involving all the different stakeholders, including physicians and hospitals, will need to be introduced.

“This problem won’t go away until we find a way to get more small companies and individuals back into the marketplace to balance the pool,” Mr. Wagar said. He added that the issue is not unique to Empire.

Meanwhile, Mr. Hasday said Empire’s move would have a negative effect.

“It’s incredibly destabilizing, and it will drive the cost of insurance up, because without competition, obviously, the incentive for insurance companies to keep rates down is significantly depressed, and it will also limit choice for the consumer,” he said.

Officers of New York State Association of Health Underwriters sent a letter—of which Mr. Hasday was one of the signers—dated November 2, addressed to the superintendent of the State Department of Financial Services, stating concerns that a major carrier, which it did not mention by name, is withdrawing from the small group market because of rate request denials/reductions in the last five consecutive quarters. Mr. Hasday later confirmed that the letter referred to Empire.

“The major carrier’s pending withdrawal from the small group market is nothing short of catastrophic to small employers in the state,” it says. “Multiple small employers with literally tens of thousands of employees are going to be left without coverage, as there will be only two to three other carriers left in which brokers may try to place coverage. If the other carriers follow suit, the availability of coverage will dry up entirely.”

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Thank you Tim Bishop. this is just the beginning of some of the benefits of the so called health care reform bill. Way to increase competition in the market place.
By razza5350 (1685), East Hampton on Nov 3, 11 9:44 PM
This has nothing whatsoever to do with health care reform. It has to do with insurance company greed and their not getting the profits they want, plain and simple. Obama never got his public option so there is no competition with private insurance plans which would cause them to lose market share and drive down profits. If anything, this is the reason why we need a public option -- now more than ever. How small businesses going to get insurance now?
By Randeelynn (2), Mount Sinai on Nov 10, 11 10:26 AM
3 members liked this comment
Phil, you are too funny. what you are seeing is the government's policies in effect. its not the private sector's policies that caused this, it is the government and it has resulted in higher costs and less choice. ny state runs the healthyny plan. the highest increases of any plan this year at 20% are, you guessed it, the government plans. The least coverage of any plan with those 20% increases and the plan taken by the least amount of doctors and hospitals? Right again, the government plan. ...more
Nov 5, 11 6:07 AM appended by Local 43
ok wintertime, you have upset me. I don't care how much dust has collected on your blue wig you old numbskull, but the price you paid to deliver your delinquent is of no consequence. Please tell me something that hasn't gone up in price every year genius.
By Local 43 (19), Southampton on Nov 4, 11 6:07 AM
Bingo. We have an Oxford HSA plan through Healthy NY. Tiny network, lots of out of pocket expenses. 18% increase 2012.
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 4, 11 9:10 AM
Dear Local, and at that I do wonder just how local YOU are. The saying amoung the real locals are nine generations before you can call yourself that. Never the less, my dear it IS the private sector and the insurance compainies that have stroked the golden goose for over 60 years and every year charging more for their services. I can remember paying $75.00 for my daughters delivery in 1952 in Southampton Hospital. We payed it ourselves as we had no insurance then.
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 5, 11 10:42 AM
Tim Bishop is directly responsible for this situation and worked very hard to achieve a development in which the hospital and most municipal workers will lose their coverage. Most small employers on Long Island will lose their insurance plan as well. Remember "IF YOU LIKE YOUR PLAN YOU CAN KEEP IT"? When Tim Bishop voted to give the states money to fund new boards of overseers who report to the government, they were charged with putting retail insurance providers out of business in order to clear ...more
Nov 5, 11 6:21 AM appended by Local 43
Summertime, an anonymous post like that with no back up text is the lowest life form of communication on the planet. If you have anything other than that, please share, lest I simply scoff at you as delirious and much closer to wintertime. Like your pals in Winter Park.
By Local 43 (19), Southampton on Nov 4, 11 6:21 AM
Are you ever mixed up or what?
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 5, 11 10:44 AM
1 member liked this comment
This has nothing whatsoever to do with health care reform. It has to do with insurance company greed and their not getting the profits they want, plain and simple. Obama never got his public option so there is no competition with private insurance plans which would cause them to lose market share and drive down profits. If anything, this is the reason why we need a public option -- now more than ever. How are small businesses going to get insurance now?

By Randeelynn (2), Mount Sinai on Nov 10, 11 11:03 AM
1 member liked this comment
Healthcare costs went up because healthcare reform did not go far enough. Wingnuts, your PRIVATE insurance companies have raised rates every single year for the last few decades and you protect them while blaming someone else? Delusional.
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Nov 4, 11 9:17 AM
Obamacare is not a matter of not going far enough, but more a matter of going the wrong direction. Calling people wingnuts won't help that. Obamacare is an enormous disaster.
Insurance companies are horrible. Obamacare is new horrible. In the end it's all horrible.

A wingnut accepts a pile of garbage for another pile of garbage and defends it as progress.
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 4, 11 9:31 AM
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 5, 11 10:54 AM
The ENTIRE Health Care System in this country must be overhauled ! Costs for all types of care are way out of line , don't blame the insurance companies for their high premiums , how many poor doctors do you know ? Plus, the cost for prescription drugs is crazy, no wonder so many patients continue to purchase their drugs on-line from Mexico or Canada. This great country is so out of touch with the latest research ( stem cells ) it is pathetic. I still say
the only real solution is to mandate ...more
By Bill in Riverhead (190), Riverhead on Nov 4, 11 9:22 AM
Don't blame the insurance companies? You are kidding, right? You know why prescription drug prices are so high? Go back and look at a little Bush era give away to these criminals.

Double standard, your definition of a wingnut is right on - you have described yourself perfectly! You should be commended for your willingness to honestly define yourself.
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Nov 4, 11 9:37 AM
Did you just play "I'm rubber and you're glue" on a message board debate?
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 4, 11 9:43 AM
Obamacare has done a lot of good, read the act for yourselves. Millions are now insured who weren't before. Kids under 19 with pre-existing conditions can not be dropped or refused coverage - that means parents who have been nailed to their jobs for fear of losing their sick kid's insurance can switch to new jobs now. I know one person who didn't dare move for over 15 years. They have now! Kids can stay on their parents insurance until 26, & I know of quite a few who are. Companies can't drop people ...more
By goldenrod (505), southampton on Nov 4, 11 10:52 AM
Your information is totally incorrect and is basically slander. In NY you can not be dropped from your coverage due to an illness. You can also get coverage if you have a preexisting condition. In addition you will find that you can get good coverage for children through child health plus. If you make under 100k it's very affordable. By mandating coverages, doing virtually nothing to reduce the cost of care and restricting carriers ability to raise rates the gvt has again hurt the middle class by ...more
By razza5350 (1685), East Hampton on Nov 5, 11 8:27 AM
1 member liked this comment
Read the act for yourself? The blasted thing is 2700 pages long. Congress and the President didn't even know what was in it before it was passed. Before Obamacare 85% of the population(inluding illegals) had health insurance. Now we are going to go bankrupt trying to insure the other 15%.Socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money. Half the population PAYS NO FEDERAL INCOME TAX.
By Duckbornandraised (107), Eastport on Nov 8, 11 12:20 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By sherryk (1), ISLIP on Nov 4, 11 12:55 PM
Medicare for everyone!

My wife and I pay roughly $1950/month for one of these plans that are not sustainable for Blue cross to continue.

How does that make sense? $23,400 for health insurance that the insurance company says isn't making enough money on. And we pay a decent amount out of pocket throughout the year

Does this make any sense to anyone? How out of whack have are health care costs become?

This was well underway before Obamacare came along, so please ...more
By C Law (293), Water Mill on Nov 4, 11 6:05 PM
Do you see why your health premiums are so high and going higher. ObamaCare adds benefits- covering preconditions, children until they are 26, insuring millions more people, etc. Someone has to pay for this. It cant be free. Even if it was free dont you think it would be accounted for in your taxes? Health companies are allowed to write business and try to make a profit. How long do you think the company you work for would be in business if they didnt make a profit. When the world doesnt realize ...more
By realistic (296), westhampton on Nov 4, 11 6:30 PM
Yes - a safety net for those who are less fortunate. Never compromise on being a caring society. Some people abuse healthcare- going to the doctor for simple colds, not taking care of themselves, smoking to much- etc. some doctors abuse healthcare- ordering more tests then are necessary- prescribing medication that is not necessary- overing billing health carriers- some courts abuse healthcare with crazy mal-practice lawsuits. Wny dont we address this? I thought obama was running on "transparency"- ...more
By realistic (296), westhampton on Nov 4, 11 7:07 PM
THere should be NO insurance coverage for all routine care...most outpatient services (though with current practice more care is outpatient ...and this might be modified) should be for large unanticipated medical issues...I have lost my job and coverage and am going naked..I had appendicitus last the 2 days of pain I spoke with 2 hospitals in north Jersey and shopped it down to 6,000 bucks...the high was 17,000 bucks.
several years ago I planned and payed cash ...more
By paarl of Rhodesia (1), Whippany on Nov 4, 11 7:36 PM
Yep. One size fits all healthcare is a joke. I don't smoke. I exercise and I'm not overweight. I go to the doctor once, maybe twice a year. Yet my premium is exactly the same as Sam the 300 lb smoker. Why can't I purchase healthcare based on my needs? I'll pay for doctor visits. I need insurance to protect me if me or a family member needs long term or hospital care. The liberal approach of "insure everyone" sounds great in theory. It's not so great when we have to pay for it. You have a cold? Sorry ...more
Nov 6, 11 7:49 PM appended by double standard
Higher co-pays for routine visits should be a start. I do believe that everyone should be protected in the event of a major illness. Nobody should lose their home due to illness. The Fed govt should not be involved though. The solutions should be on the state level.
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 4, 11 7:49 PM
2 members liked this comment
Show me where I said that. I never said that. You choose to ignore which you can't defend (as usual) and attack a position I never took. Your idea of healthcare is fiscally unsustainable. Obamacare is fiscally unsustainable and ultimately bad for the economy. The result will be fewer or lower paying jobs. You will see a rise in PT employment opportunities (we already are.) You can disagree, that is your right. We can revisit the discussion in 3 years and decide who was right. If I am wrong I will ...more
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 4, 11 8:23 PM
You need to be quiet! You're probably healthy and probably you've sat on you lazy butt for years collecting other peoples' money!! Yes, my money!! I have MS and have WORKED as a teacher and now I WORK in my house cleaning it and taking care of my family. Get off you a** and start paying your own bills!!!!!!!!!!
By janemadison (1), Franklin on Nov 4, 11 9:04 PM
When someone with no insurance walks into a hospital and gets free healthcare, and the premiums that working people pay are inflated due to this, does this not present an ideal situation for you? The costs are being put onto those that supposedly can afford it easiest right? Free healthcare exists in this country now. You can walk into any hospital with no insurance and get care. The rates that working people and insured employers pay reflect that. So far so good, those that can least afford ...more
By Donner Party (1), East Hampton on Nov 6, 11 6:46 AM
Running the companies like they were Nabisco, is most of the problem.

Health care has become a privilege to those who can afford it, and that is simply unacceptable.

I believe an X-ray is about $30 these days. It only took 120 years to get it that cheap...
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 4, 11 8:42 PM
Mr. Z -
"Maybe it's not the system, but the people who run it, and those who are abusive participating in it that are the problem? "


Absolutely. And the abuses run from insurance co's to doctors to lawyers and participants as well. How is that fixed? Who knows... maybe evolution. And I agree that healthcare should not be a for profit enterprise. I wonder how much of our insurance premiums go to actual care? I'd be willing to guess a very small amount.

My argument ...more
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 4, 11 9:02 PM
Empire pulled out of NY State because the first wave of healthcare reform legislation made it too expensive to do business in NY State. Period. If you liked your health plan you cannot keep it and this is just the beginning. Hopefully you love the post office, the dmv and the social security office as well. The state run plan is has the least coverage and is the fastest growing in price. The price only started increasing when people started rushing for it in the last year. It has almost doubled ...more
Nov 5, 11 6:09 AM appended by Local 43
hey razza 5351, the above has more substance - agree or not - than all of your posts added together. brainless, no, bs and moronic, not a chance. Buckwheat.
By Local 43 (19), Southampton on Nov 5, 11 6:09 AM
What b s ! You sound like a brainless talking head with no freaking clue like the rest of your m o ro n wingnut buddies on this site.
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Nov 5, 11 1:11 PM
1 member liked this comment
Please enlighten the masses, Razza. We'd love to hear from someone who has it all figured out.
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 6, 11 11:23 AM
I have to laugh at those people that think Medicare for all is the answer. Medicare needs massive reform and needs to be fixed not expanded. We don't want to look like Greece. Defense Medicare and social security make up a huge portion of our spending. If we are to reign in our spiraling debt we should be lowering these costs not increasing them. FYI Medicare coverage looks like Swiss cheese. You still need to pay for part b and d and you need a supplement plan.
By razza5350 (1685), East Hampton on Nov 5, 11 8:34 AM
1 member liked this comment
Medicare is more than a joke. People on it think its a limitless personal healthcare fund. Unnecessay testing, Labs all because no prior auth is needed. Medicares guidelines are flimsy. Everyone after 65 are entitled and some abuse it beyond belief. I have had patients tell me they want every test under the sun, cause Medicare pays for it. Blood tests are not needed every three months.CT scans, PET scans and MRIs cost thousands and there are no parimeters set to authorize them. And then there are ...more
By squeaky (272), hampton bays on Nov 5, 11 9:28 AM
You have a point about advertised drugs being abused. Consider the viagara ads and how many are using medicare or medicaid to pay for theirs, including folks in jail. On the other hand, older people are afraid of being sick and eventually dying, so many want every test they are entitled to have in the hope that it might help them catch any problem early. I can't blame them, not when I have watched family members age and sensed their fear.
By goldenrod (505), southampton on Nov 6, 11 9:58 AM
If Squeaky is a dr. and she lets her patients tell her what to do , how to treat the patient in front of her, then I do not think she is a good DR. My Dr. in Florida orders the tests for me I do not tell her what to do. If there is excessive testing it is the FAULT of the Dr. not the patient. In fact this year a cardiolgist ordered a test that Medicare would not pay for. Medicare sent copies to me of the answers they sent to the dr. He had to eat the cost ... not me nor Medicare.
Some people ...more
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 5, 11 10:34 AM
NO Im not a dr. So save the criticism. No dr that orders tests will "Eat" it as you say. Only the facility. Do you really think Medicare pays anything close to what they should??? A bill is submitted and they find ways to deny payment or make the office do a dance for the pennies they pay. So save how much they do. And if you think drs arent stuck in a CYA society with lawsuits are as frequent as they are then you must live in Fla. The LaLa land of the elderly....Lemme guess...The Villages.
By squeaky (272), hampton bays on Nov 5, 11 5:58 PM
Nope but you're close. We managed to avoid that oilgarchy even though quite a few of our friends from Southampton live there.
I do realize that ultimately we the taxpayer picks the cost up in the health care scene somehow. I do believe the Dr.s know the score and so inflate the charge; they know what they will get. Many Drs will not accept medicare patients. Many will not accept a medicare advantage patient.
It's all a game. But, I do not think Medicare is a joke. We all know we are going ...more
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 5, 11 8:15 PM
Doctors cannot inflate charges. Medicare has set amounts they will pay for services. There is no way to get more than they are willing to pay.A simple visit to a doctor is billed at say 60.00, medicare dictates what they will pay. A good portion must be written off by the office. I really dont know how fraud happens. They are very tight with the money, as it should be.
We all pay into the system, as you say, but what we pay in is pennies compared to what we take out. I can pay in for a lifetime ...more
By squeaky (272), hampton bays on Nov 7, 11 4:25 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Donner Party (1), East Hampton on Nov 6, 11 6:34 AM
Oh my're sick!
By SHNative (546), Southampton on Nov 6, 11 7:21 AM
You cant blame Obama. He was a community activist. He is used to taking from the hard working american "haves" and giving it to the "have nots". He ran on this platform. "Spread the wealth around" - remember. Pelosi, Reid, Frank- are more guilty. They set the stage for many of the failures of the present. They continue to perpetuate it along with our President. Use your votes to get them out.
By realistic (296), westhampton on Nov 6, 11 8:40 AM
Empire is positioning itself for the full enactment of universal health coverage by sloughing off small health insurance lines that are less profitable (because they take proportionately more administrative oversight than large lines) and detract from its bottom line. There will be plenty of insurers ready to pick up what they discard. Smaller profit is still profit (and "small" is relative.)

Empire is structuring itself to be as lean and profitable as possible so that it bids from a position ...more
By highhatsize (2572), East Quogue on Nov 6, 11 9:14 AM
1 member liked this comment
If we all dropped our healthcare coverage on the same day how long would it take to put the insurance co's out of business? Before we occupy Wall St we should shut down "Big Health."

I'd be all for STATE plans where we all contribute to the insurance fund, all networks are the same, universal compensation for care (ie. flat fee x-rays / blood work), an end to the referral system. Doctor visits will have increased out of pocket expenses (ie. co-pay), everyone is protected against long term ...more
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 6, 11 11:49 AM
We have people covered through not for profit now. It's called Medicaid and Medicare. They both operate at massive losses and are grossly underfunded. Gvt run health care is not the answer.
By razza5350 (1685), East Hampton on Nov 6, 11 7:44 PM
All for the State Plans. And thats why other state plan participants from other countries come here for their care when their lives are depending on it. We sure did a great job with social security- and all the other state run institutions.
By realistic (296), westhampton on Nov 6, 11 12:29 PM
The British who are snow birds here go back home if they need care more than a tylenol.
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 6, 11 9:12 PM
You liberals all wanted Obama care, now live with the consequences.
By Walt (249), Southampton on Nov 6, 11 5:58 PM
Well my sister lucked out with the Afforadble Health Care Act. Even after the diagnosis of Cancer she was able to change her policy to one that would serve her better.
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 7, 11 7:30 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 6, 11 9:09 PM
1 member liked this comment
Robyn who??? Have you looked at her other articles. They all push a left wing agenda. This particular article is a mere editorial. What left wing web site is feeding you this garbage or do you actually subscribe to the st Petersburg times
By razza5350 (1685), East Hampton on Nov 6, 11 10:51 PM
I also read the New York Times. guess you don't like that either.
What papers do you read? I mean besided this SH Press? Which has been Republican for over 80 years. I like the Press It's been my paper for almost 80 years.
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 7, 11 7:33 PM
A catastrophic health insurance plan with a high deductable coupled with a Health Savings Account) HSA is an option for all to consider. The premiums are much lower than a conventional policy, the prices charged per visit are lower and the savings account can be rolled over year to year with a maximum yearly contribution of $6,200 per couple.I have purchased this plan and it works! The point of this way of dealing with health insurance is to protect against bankruptcy in the event of a major illness ...more
By bigfresh (1728), north sea on Nov 7, 11 5:40 AM
good point big fresh. Unlike a traditional plan with a co pay HSA's will also make the participant more closely analyze what the physician or medical service is actually charging.
By razza5350 (1685), East Hampton on Nov 7, 11 6:27 AM
Today: WASHINGTON — A conservative-leaning panel of federal appellate judges on Tuesday upheld President Barack Obama's health care law

Get used to it!
By fcmcmann (417), Hampton Bays on Nov 8, 11 12:38 PM
1 member liked this comment
You speak like it's a victory. It's anything but that. The situation with blue cross is just one small example of far worse things to come.
By razza5350 (1685), East Hampton on Nov 8, 11 1:22 PM
1 member liked this comment
It is a victory for all sane people
By fcmcmann (417), Hampton Bays on Nov 8, 11 2:42 PM
1 member liked this comment
FCMC. Please explain to this insane person how this law is a victory to a new resident. Please don't give me the progressive web site talking points about prexisting and being dropped due to medical conditions it doesnt apply in NY.
By razza5350 (1685), East Hampton on Nov 8, 11 6:48 PM
This is anything but a victory for the citizens of this great nation. Imagine how the left would react if the government forced all citizens to purchase guns for "personal protection". It's a blatant abuse of power and will , in all probability, be shot down in the US Supreme Court.
By bigfresh (1728), north sea on Nov 8, 11 6:51 PM
I know the Afforadable CareAct is the right way to go. It is not perfect but it is a step in the right direction. My sister is happy that the President made that bill a priority ahd it happened before she was diagonosed with cancer.
I truely feel that if the adlepated right radical right wing wins in any of our debates we will be a lost country. What Alabama and Mississippi are doing to tear down women's rights is deplorable. Do you really want such uneducated people telling you what ...more
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 8, 11 10:15 PM
1 member liked this comment
This is a huge blow to small businesses. We have a small business, nine employees, we provide health insurance, which our employees pay a portion. Since I handle making the decisions regarding the health insurance choices every year, I have watched our rates rise as much as 25% in a single year. The economy as it is, we can't raise our rates or we lose customers, but all of our expenses have increased two-fold. Now with this decision by Empire, it destroys our chances for affordable decent health ...more
By Terbear (77), Southampton on Nov 9, 11 9:55 AM
1 member liked this comment
I am sure your insurance rates have increased while you watch as other prices rise. Welcome to the world of fixed income and rising prices. Prices all around us are rising, the gas prices are a joke and the laughs on me. We all know why our country is in this mess. Now it will take hard work and guts to get us on the correct road to lfiniancial health and it sure isn't the right wing nut mess we have now. We need to occupy the great pharma companies.
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 9, 11 10:38 AM
1 member liked this comment
Do you mean murder on demand there Summertime? Classic liberal , kill an unborn innocent, but let a murderer live, pitiful.
As to Obamacare, if enacted it will guarantee our nation being relagated to the same status as some European, permanant endebtedness and chronic double digit unemployment.
We need the government out of the health care business, they are the source of most of the problems we aare suffering through at present, why in the world do you want to give up more control ...more
By bigfresh (1728), north sea on Nov 9, 11 4:04 PM
Bigfresh, what makes you think you have the right to tell a woman what she can and can't do with her body. Classic right-wing, big government intrusion. The world's economic problems were created by republicans deregulating banks and wall street, unfunded wars, and unfunded give aways to big pharma. You, like your ignorant cohorts, are completely clueless. The tea party is over. Go back under your rock.
By witch hazel (214), tatooine on Nov 9, 11 4:20 PM
An unborn baby is not a woman's body. Abortion is a contract murder, the contract is between the pregnant woman and the abortionist, no different than any other murder for hire.Trying to gloss this over is repugnant to anyone with a conscience.
By bigfresh (1728), north sea on Nov 9, 11 4:41 PM
Typica,l typical male. I'd love to see you in the labor room tryiing to push out a 10 pounder!
Actually you disgust me. You have no idea of a woman and her unborn baby. One only goes to that desparate measure when forced to either for medical reasons, probably beyond your comprehension, or reasons beyond her control. Like rape.. against our will. You must be like so many other uneducated folks who chose to follow Fox news. You like to be titlated by all that shouting and ranting ... leading ...more
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 10, 11 7:07 AM
And Big Fresh, I'd like to know just how much cash and foodstuffs you donate to the poor little kids born into a family with many small children and no jobe.
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 10, 11 7:11 AM
Better yet, I would love to see some of the anti-choice people help out the mothers they manage to talk into keeping an unwanted child. Or maybe they can adopt a few instead of contributing to the overpopulation. But I guess telling them not to have children may be an infringement of THEIR reproductive right....GET IT????
By squeaky (272), hampton bays on Nov 10, 11 10:05 AM
2 members liked this comment
Murder is murder.
By bigfresh (1728), north sea on Nov 10, 11 3:25 PM
"abortion isn't murder-its a legal medical procedure" So by your definition if I give a lethal injection (administered by a doctor) to a convicted murder isnt that also a medical procedure. Why are you in favor of killing unborn innocents but want to protect murders.
By razza5350 (1685), East Hampton on Nov 11, 11 8:42 AM
If you are a woman and you believe in freedom of choice but you are supporting the government takeover of healthcare, you might as well join the guy who jumped into the drink off the long wharf. You just sold your soul to the devil and when the devil decides that the cost of caring for your mom outweighs the chances of her survival and death is beneficial to the state's fiscal situation, you can say bubye to mommy. You keep arguing about your right to an abortion, you don't have a say in it. ...more
By HighHatSiMrZPeoplefirst (8), Hampton Bays on Nov 11, 11 6:01 AM
Riiiiiight, Phil. Care to look at the facts of how Obamacare will premiums go up, put more burdens on business, reduce hiring?
I like how you ignore facts that are uncomfortable to you ie. Solyndra, the actions of the ultra-inept Mr. Holder, the Obama admin's attack on state rights. The list goes on and on. Go on and keep your blind support and attacks on the right.
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 11, 11 9:03 AM
Well you throw out blanket statements "Facts have no place in right wing world." So I challenge you to take a look at who and what you defend with such passion.

Obamacare is a disaster and will be proven so in the not so distant future. Healthcare is still broken, it just has a new name. You applaud that. I find that funny.

You seem to hate puppetry from the right and yet you are a puppet for the left. Your hypocrisy is transparent and comical.

When America realizes that ...more
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 11, 11 9:33 AM
"Requiring a photo ID is a poll tax." Are you drunk on the Demokrat kool aid again Phil? You need a photo ID to get welfare, there goes your argument. Your beloved Demokrat Party would be lost without illegal votes so I understand yout reluctance to make the process wholly legal, but come on, how can requiring a photo ID be a hindrance to a legitimately registered voter?
Abortion is the murder of an unborn person, not a 'MEDICAL PROCEDURE".
By bigfresh (1728), north sea on Nov 11, 11 4:58 PM
Health Care thats what this post is about right? well wouldn't it be better to lhave EVERYONE pay into the system now rather than the way it is DONE now.
In case y'all don't know whenever anyone goes to the emergency room the hospital the dr's and nurse's duty is to care for the patient. They do not play favorites in the ER with the exception to the degree of injury.
So who pays... you and me through a variety of ways.
And do not bring up the illegal bit... I know of a local since ...more
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 11, 11 5:43 PM
summertime, you are the most entertaining antique on this website and for that you get the penn state award for blindness. you have now topped yourself and all of your condescending posts by actually knowing someone that has lived in hampton bays since 1640. the press has notified the folks at guinness book of world records. and hey, thanks for lecturing us on the er and doctors and nurse's duties. why don't you lecture us on your liquor cabinet? you spend a lot of time there too evidently.
Nov 12, 11 6:00 AM appended by HighHatSiMrZPeoplefirst
glad they let you append a comment around here because i got carried away. the point was, unless there is a politician with any fortitude, we are screwed. ok, we're screwed.
By HighHatSiMrZPeoplefirst (8), Hampton Bays on Nov 12, 11 6:00 AM
My kids would call you a tattle-tail. For my next trick I am going to dedicate every moment on this site to fact checking every ignorant point you make.
By HighHatSiMrZPeoplefirst (8), Hampton Bays on Nov 13, 11 6:41 AM
Have you ever read Tim Dickinson?

He's got a real scorcher penned for the Thanksgiving issue of Rolling Stone.

All the Reaganites will absolutely LOVE the opening salvo...
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 13, 11 5:52 PM
1 member liked this comment
If you believe Dick and son phil in rollingstone, you are too far gone. How the GOP became the party of the rich? you are kidding right? how about how the proletariat became the hoodwinked masses, turning on their own citizens in a clear form of modern day cannibalism. try focusing on the real 1%, those that get rich from your hard work and haven't suffered one iota under the current economic cycle. your man tim bishop and his ilk in congress. don't take your eye off the ball there mr z, ...more
By HighHatSiMrZPeoplefirst (8), Hampton Bays on Nov 14, 11 6:13 AM
I'm sure your advanced degree in market, and supply side economics aided you in drawing the conclusion that millions of Americans are "too far gone".

Did you even read the article? Some of the people who designed Reagan's policy are quoted in it. Even they say that the GOP are a bunch of obstinate, intrasigent, oligarchic morons of the nth degree.

Whatever you're smoking, I don't wany any...
Nov 14, 11 8:39 PM appended by Mr. Z
And, if you haven't read the 2005 Citibank memo/report on Plutonomy, you should. Maybe the bells in your head might go off...
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 14, 11 8:39 PM
Your argument as to how requiring a photo ID is a poll tax is weak at best Philllll. How do these allegedly poverty stricken citizens apply for their government cheese? They need an ID for that. How do they prove who they are when they cash their government supplied check each month? Photo ID. How do they get their WIC for their kids, photo ID.
Requiring a photo ID should be the law of the land, there is no RATIONAL reason not to.
The GOP isn't the party of the rich, it's the party ...more
By bigfresh (1728), north sea on Nov 14, 11 8:15 AM
Phil speaks in code. He's for open boarders, open spending, open healthcare, closed businesses, vacant buildings and empty wallets.
Nov 14, 11 1:02 PM appended by double standard
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 14, 11 1:02 PM
Please explain in detail how the Affordable Care Act will do irreparable damage to the economy and please provide factual data to backup your assertions.
By fcmcmann (417), Hampton Bays on Nov 15, 11 10:24 AM
Where is Tim bishop on this one? The exit of blue cross effects thousands of his constituents and he has done nothing about it
By razza5350 (1685), East Hampton on Nov 14, 11 8:14 PM
Repeal Obamacare. Vote out those who are for it. Ignore the talking heads that refuse to see the damage it will do because they can't defend it without trying to spin facts and avoid economic reality. Put pressure on lawmakers to find a real solution, and don't accept a new "solution" that is equally bad or worse and call it progress.

Repeal Obamacare.
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 15, 11 8:16 AM
Repeal ignorance.
By fcmcmann (417), Hampton Bays on Nov 15, 11 10:11 AM
Yeah, nice offering. When you have a point to make, or can tell us Obamacare is going to make things better for the majority, or how it isn't going to hurt us financially, let me know. Until then carry on little party puppet.
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 15, 11 10:25 AM
Liberalism will be defeated in either of 2 ways
1. It will be rejected by the majority and voted to its death.
2. It will be accepted at the polls and the subsequent policies will destroy the economy. End result is it dies.

Obamacare will be repealed or it will fail.
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 15, 11 10:35 AM
Hey, doubledipper, have you not been paying attention? The teaparty is over. Get used to it.
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Nov 15, 11 12:51 PM
Nothing to do with tea party or whatever party you want to bring up. Bad economics is bad economics. If you approve of what's going on then good for you. I'm quite sure that 2-3 is negative one and that is how our govt runs business. Now we have them forcing a bs healthcare system down our throats. It's going to cost more and we are going to get less for it. If that is progress to you then I'd challenge you to demand more.
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 15, 11 2:24 PM
Please explain how it is being "shoved down your throat"? Are you uninsured? If so, then you are costing me money - an additional $1,200 a year in premiums. If you are insured, then nothing changes. How about ditching the FOX news talking points and focusing on facts.
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Nov 15, 11 2:45 PM
You bet your --- I'm insured and I insure employees as well. If you had any idea what this is going to do to business you just might look at it differently. As to you attempts at insult (ie. Fox News, Teaparty) they hurt me so deeply I don't think I'll ever recover.

Look at the results. Look at where we are going. Keep convincing yourself that it's worth supporting. Put Obamacare to a general election and it is history.
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 15, 11 4:58 PM
I would love to see some investigating journaliziam and to how much the big wigs of these health insurance comapnies make. I'm sure they all get big bucks and bonuses! They need to have their accounting exposed.
By baywave (22), Westhampton Beach on Nov 15, 11 12:32 PM
Profits are in the billions:(
By sandydog21 (138), Southampton on Nov 15, 11 5:39 PM

It's being shoved down our throats in one example by forcing employers to insure their workers, thereby forcing the employer to hire less workers due to cost. This continues the employment problem we face.
By bigfresh (1728), north sea on Nov 15, 11 4:58 PM
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 15, 11 5:05 PM
Deem and pass the biggest piece of garbage ever. I can't believe that people think healthcare is fixed with this. Obamacare = new, very expensive garbage pile. Well done.
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 15, 11 5:09 PM

They are PROFITING off of pain and suffering.

Other than that, not much.
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 15, 11 7:58 PM
To solve the insurance cost problem, maybe they can cut their 300x larger salary (on average) to pay for it.

Whose back do you have to dance on to bleed that much money from the people?
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 15, 11 8:02 PM
Hey,double standard, on word for you - BALONEY! You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and can provide NO real world example of what you claim. In fact, bro, the exact opposite of what you say is true! SNAP OUT OF IT!

From AARP:

Q. We own a small business and can’t afford health insurance for our employees. Will health care reform make things even tougher by making us pay for their health coverage?

A. The law does not require businesses to provide ...more
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Nov 15, 11 5:41 PM
1 member liked this comment
Here you go, bro.

Higher Premiums. Over the past decade, we have seen the insurance premiums double. Unfortunately, introducing an additional 30 million people into the insurance pool will result in much higher insurance premiums for the 80% of Americans that currently have health insurance. The average person could see a premium increase of 8-12% each year due to the healthcare reform bill.

Higher Taxes. Most businesses and high net worth individuals and families earning over ...more
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 16, 11 12:38 PM
Phil did you liken the Repub candidates to the kkk? Do you even take yourself seriously? Nobody else does. Go to work.
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 16, 11 2:52 PM
Yeah right. You have zero credibility. Keep running with your hard left gang of victims and malcontents. I'm sure it will serve you well in life.

By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 16, 11 6:12 PM
You should be more motivated about not looking like a buffoon and posting such nonsense instead of "striking a nerve with me or anyone else."

You know what you posted. You are backpedaling now because it shows your true colors. Note that each of your subsequent posts added an end line that validated your kkk reference.

By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 16, 11 7:03 PM
Ride it like a what? You post that on a public message board? Comparing Repub candidates to the kkk, falsely claiming that certain posters here want to bring back Jim Crow, and comparing me to a "cheap hooker." Is this liberalism? This is how you make your points? Why can't you defend Obamacare without such bitternes and anger? I thought liberals were supposed to be nice and considerate. Jeesh!
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 16, 11 8:26 PM
You didn't notice "kkk" in your post? Are you just bad at spelling? It was just "a coincidence," huh? You've got to be kidding me. You, sir, are disgraceful. You intentionally spelled it that way, so own it. Your cowardess is amazing, I really hope nobody takes you seriously on this site anymore (if they ever did)
But this is typical of the left-wing. If their arguement is not credible, let's just play the race card. A disgusting tactic that spits in the eye of minorties who actually ...more
By AlwaysLocal (292), southampton on Nov 17, 11 2:56 PM
I know. How do you try to debate with someone that likens the Republican candidates to the KKK? I mean, really... do you even bother? If you disagree with Obamacare you must be a racist (in the eyes of Phil.) He really believes this garbage too which is the most tragic thing.
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 17, 11 3:24 PM
philathome, don't you realize what dbl std is saying? in my mind he is admitting? He seems to be referring to the true southerner way of speaking in code... so he's or is it she no I think it is a he, is accusing you of speaking in code this is in reference to the kkk remark. It took lme a while but I finally realized what a deeply prejudiced southerner, so lilly white, means by "you don't know who will be coming in the back door."
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 17, 11 8:28 PM
I'm fairly certain it will take us all a while to decipher whatever code you are attempting. Seriously, Summer - what are you talking about?
Are you going to defend Phil's kkk remark or not? Just say it. What's on your mind? Be clear and concise.

I'll go first - Phil likened the republican candidates to the kkk. He sort of backpedaled, but not really. Read his posts.

Now you go.
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 17, 11 8:54 PM
Thank goodness you are out there to attend to the more progressive topics. I'm not a Republican so your rant above was directed at who??? However, you just articulated your beef with Republicans that somehow coincides with your kkk error. It was an error, right?

You seem angry.
It wasn't really an error was it?
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 17, 11 10:50 PM
It is easy when you listen and then watch to see what the prejudiced will do. I do believe Phil-- did not realize the significance of the kkk's; and that sentence of mine can be amended if I find out he grew up in the south... I mean south of the Mason Dixon line.
And if you can't decipher my post, try putting in the commas where I forgot to do so in my haste to get on line.
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 18, 11 5:33 PM
I am a 23 plus years licensed New York State life and health insurance person. The way to evaluate this insurance company move is to see what other plans are offered in the area. We have a community rated HMO system designed to make it easy for everyone to get health insurance regardles of health, age or gender. I go to many and have many meetings under my belt. I went to an Empire Medicare Advantage meeting last month, I was told by the Empire representative Suffolk County medical providers ...more
By Wo (1), Hamptn Bays on Nov 15, 11 7:13 PM
Since it's about money, I'd agree.
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 15, 11 8:06 PM
You're right ZZZZ , can't have any PROFITS now can we. Evil capitalists.
By bigfresh (1728), north sea on Nov 16, 11 7:16 AM
"The latest Survey of Consumer Finance data was released Friday 24th of February (2006). It shows that the rich in the US continue to be in great shape. We thought this was good time to bang the drum on plutonomy.

Back in October, we coined the term ‘Plutonomy’ (The Global Investigator, Plutonomy: Buying Luxury, Explaining Global Imbalances, October 14 2005). Our thesis is that the rich are the dominant drivers of demand in many economies around the world (the US, UK, Canada ...more
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 16, 11 12:16 PM
You are a career poster of absolute garbage.
By Fragger 21 (3), East Hampton on Nov 17, 11 6:43 AM
Could you elaborate, or is that all your feeble mind can muster in totality?
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 17, 11 2:38 PM
No need to be "labor" if you have the ambition, vision and drive to be successful . There will always be business owners and those who work for them, deal with it.
By bigfresh (1728), north sea on Nov 16, 11 3:06 PM
As usual, you miss the point entirely.
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 16, 11 4:14 PM
1 member liked this comment
Where are the people loving and ultra-caring liberals now?

Philathome - "They won't get it,5351.They rail against liberalism while their own party is collapsing around them.I'll admit that Obama is vulnerable,but he looks like teflon next to this klown karload of kandidates. "

Nobody is going to say anything about that, right? Question Obamacare and you are a racist, and idiot, and a the list goes on....
Yet ignore something so ridiculous as the post above. What a group.

By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 16, 11 3:08 PM
“This welfare for the well-off — costing billions of dollars a year — is being paid for with the taxes of the less fortunate, many who are working two jobs just to make ends meet, and IOUs to be paid off by future generations.
“We should never demonize those who are successful. Nor should we pamper them with unnecessary welfare to create an appearance everyone is benefiting from federal programs.” the system has produced a “reverse Robin Hood style of wealth ...more
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Nov 16, 11 3:57 PM
1 member liked this comment
They will decry "Socialism" until they are blue in the face (bf), but their fortune is based on the capital dispensed by a socialistic bailout machine that works solely on the behalf of the "elite".

What a ****** joke...
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 16, 11 4:18 PM
Darrell Issa? The former CEO of Directed Electronics? Mr. Industry Insider? Mr. Merrill "200M mutual fund trade" Lynch?

Talk about the pot, and the kettle folks!!!!

Cap'n, though I laud his fervor over Solyndra, the company most likely would not have failed if the Chinese didn't flood the market with a much cheaper alternative. I don't think anyone could have predicted that. Darrell Issa is one of the LAST men on Earth qualified to lecture ANYONE on personal, political, or ...more
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 17, 11 2:30 PM
The point I failed to convey is that they are all as self serving, and crooked as the day is long. Self preservation on the part of politicians seems to be the "status quo".

There are plenty of "illegal contributions", or suspicions thereof to go around. When I said it's like the pot calling the kettle black, I meant it. Look at politicians like Chuck Schumer. Like all good "Janus" types, there's a public face, and the self serving face.

To say that the Federal Government can't ...more
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 19, 11 8:41 PM
Look to the medical profession itself! no one does. I was in the hosp for pneumonia for 5 days, the pulmonary dr, saw me 2Xm 5min, each time, billed Medicare for 5 visits. Medicare paid him for 5 visit, at cost of $377, for total of 10 min, charged me also for 5 visits.
No one questioned him for no, of visits Since Feb, 2010 I have had a case of Fraud, which is still being "investigated". How does an obvious lie get "investigated?" Multiply his 2 visits , by no, of visits, by no of patients, ...more
By ellen (5), Riverhead on Nov 16, 11 5:14 PM
There is no bigger jacka** than an avowed Herman Cain supporter
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Nov 16, 11 8:45 PM
1 member liked this comment
I'm not saying the Affrodable Care Act is perfect but y'all know we have to start some where. It certainly will be better than what we have today. I am fighting for the the sec. which compeles all to buy health insurance. Everyone should pay something according to his/her ability. As it stands now the hospital is compelled to treat every patient that comes in the door. That is also fine with me. A decent person would/should give to help to the injured. But the patient should have some form of ...more
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 16, 11 8:59 PM
Good to report you are in the minority there wintertime. "From each according to his ability to each according to their need." Is that what you believe? There is no glory and no honor is having the government force you to do anything. The honor comes in choosing to do it yourself. It is the height of hypocrisy for an antique like you to fight for the government to confiscate my money to pay for your care as you skated through the roaring 20s without a care in the world. You should have saved ...more
Nov 17, 11 6:41 AM appended by Fragger 21
Save it there mr. z, you don't know honor. I watch you, when the going gets tough, you call disability.
By Fragger 21 (3), East Hampton on Nov 17, 11 6:41 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By witch hazel (214), tatooine on Nov 17, 11 2:55 PM
You jerk! I once knew a young man who thought we should just let someone who was over 65 pass on. Today he is going to a dr. when he needs to for heart disease. His company offers the insurance. And he is glad to have it! You are just a complete snob thinking you have all the answers. Listen, when you go to the hospital your body is just the same as the the man next to you. And if you get uppity with the nurse just think... well, you don't want to know!
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 17, 11 8:48 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
Nov 18, 11 6:12 AM appended by Fragger 21
oh let me guess, while your arm is extended you are pretty upset about your taxes going to schools too aren't you?
By Fragger 21 (3), East Hampton on Nov 18, 11 6:12 AM
Hey, Fragger, I thought they limited your computer time at the home? Better watch out before Nurse Ratched makes you take your meds!
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Nov 18, 11 8:25 AM
You know what else is honorable?

Sharing your knowledge with the world, instead of exploiting it, it's resources, and it's people for personal gain, and profit. We are where we are in society today, because there are far too many people, who believe they are worth far too much. Narcissism has a VERY ugly side when pathological in nature.

For reference, Jonas Salk always has been one of my personal heroes.
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 17, 11 2:31 PM
Without profit, there is no business, unless it's run by the almighty Government, they don't need profit when they have the productive members of society to foot the bill. It's as simple as capitalism vs socialism.
By bigfresh (1728), north sea on Nov 17, 11 2:59 PM
Profiting is one thing.

Brokering society into poverty, and breaking the back of your "middle class", that's another.

Maybe you have failed to notice it, but there are a few MILLION people who used to have great jobs that paid high five figures, who now work for $12/hr. in retail. And it's not because they want to, it's because that's the opportunity available to them.

Not everyone is gifted with vision, or ambition, or the intelligence to be "successful". Some people ...more
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 17, 11 3:08 PM
1 member liked this comment
"SOCIALISM! SOCIALISM!" Bigfresh, it is clear to all of us that you 1)are terrified of anything that benefits the average joe and 2) prefer corporate fascism
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Nov 17, 11 3:17 PM
or maybe he believes in hard work, accountability, and responsibility.
Maybe, just maybe, he isn't afraid to walk through life with mama govt holding his hand. You know... America. Maybe he's an American.

The more you give, the more they take, the more they waste, the more you have to give.
Nov 17, 11 3:40 PM appended by double standard
"without mama govt holding his hand" obviously.
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 17, 11 3:40 PM
2 members liked this comment
Have you ever heard of a "not for profit"?

By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 17, 11 11:51 PM
doublestandard - The revolution is upon us. Get out of the way or be trampled.
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Nov 18, 11 8:23 AM
Lay the blame for the loss of jobs at the feet of Barak Hussein Obama, peace be upon Him, and the Demokratz who forced the banks to make sub-prime loans with the aim of social engeneering. Freddei and Fannie ring a bell?!
We have one of the highest corporate tax rates in the world, burdensome regulations on business and the looming implimentation of Obamacare. All of these problems have led to a loss of jobs and the unwillingness of employers to hire due to the uncertainty of what the costs ...more
By bigfresh (1728), north sea on Nov 17, 11 5:25 PM
Urban legend #1: Democrats forced banks to make loans.

False: The Community Reinvestment Act had absolutely NOTHING to do with the housing bubble. Look to the unregulated derivatives market that pumped trillions into the market, driving up prices. Also, look to greed on the part of the banks who pocketed BILLIONS in fees for making sub-prime loans. There was PLENTY of incentive to push them through, with promises of later refinance. Also, factor in the LIARS who sold fixed rate loans, ...more
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 17, 11 6:55 PM
You are ignorant, or else you don't want to admit, that 90% of business owners are Republican. Those astute men/women have decided NOT to hire (Unless absolutely pressed by increased customers). They will start to hire after the 2012 election. I see it in the stores I frequent here near The Villages and Ocala. So leave this administration out of that argument.
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 17, 11 8:35 PM
My reply above is for bigfresh and his republican rant. good night. I have to lget up early in the am to go to work. yeah, my post retireement jobha ha.
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 17, 11 9:02 PM
Does Yale, Harvard and PMSNBC know that there is a savant in North Sea with the answers to the economy!? And please don't ask me to read some nonsense in Rolling Stone, the same folks that gave us the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and that publish the Billboard top 40 from 25 years ago. Silly man. There are a lot of folks that have all the answers. They walk the streets pushing carts mumbling to themselves. Ask those cats, they are geniuses too. pfft.
Nov 18, 11 6:15 AM appended by Fragger 21
All you Z
By Fragger 21 (3), East Hampton on Nov 18, 11 6:15 AM
You can glean this information from many sources.

"Democracy Incorporated", the "History of Greed", "The Great American Stick-up", "All the Devils are Here", "Third World America", "Tomatoland", and yes, even "Griftopia".

You can also check out "The Great Derangement".

You see, dollars, and cents are simply additive. Basic math. Money comes, money goes. They turned it into calculus, then broke the bank.
Nov 19, 11 2:37 PM appended by Mr. Z
And, you could also live through it. Watching as the gap opened like an earthquake, all the while everyone told you that you "things are great", and "look at all the value increase." It increased alright, then evaporated like aether on a hot city sidewalk.
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 19, 11 2:37 PM
And, how could I forget "The Jungle", by Upton Sinclair!
Nov 19, 11 8:19 PM appended by Mr. Z
You know what else Rolling Stone gave us? Lester Bangs. I love this, and the same goes for any self entitled a**wipe whose "title" begins with a "C": "Well basically I just started out to lead [an interview] with the most insulting question I could think of. Because it seemed to me that the whole thing of interviewing as far as rock stars and that, was just such a suck-up. It was groveling obeisance to people who weren't that special, really. It's just a guy, just another person, so what?"
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 19, 11 8:19 PM
Did everyone here have their minds changed by this healthy debate? I sure did. I learned that Obamacare is going to be great for the economy. It will never rain again. "More progressive issues are going to be attended to." All the problems are caused by the rich and all the solutions come from the government. Misspelled words that substitute 3 c's in a row with 3 k's in a row don't mean what you think. Apparently that's a common error. Sweeeeet!
We should all go out to lunch and argue over ...more
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 17, 11 11:00 PM
I learned that people like to view things in black and white.

Unfortunately, there is more gray than is realized.

For that matter, who looks the most like Mr. Pink?
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 17, 11 11:11 PM
Oh indeed. I hope we all learned that learning isn't the be all and end all. At some point we need to apply that knowledge. Right, Z? Being ambitious and working hard has its rewards. There is virtue in being a responsible and accountable adult.
And most of all if someone puts a shiny "New and improved" sticker on something like, uh, healthcare, it doesn't mean I have to believe that it is new and improved. It just means that there is a new sticker on it. Is that too black and white for ya?
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 17, 11 11:29 PM
Not entirely. The health care bill helped alot of people, who ordinarily would be denied care. Of course, that will cut into profits, and maybe that shiny new Maserati, will have to be a Porsche instead because of it. Providence FORBID!

There are pros, and cons throughout the package. The cons mostly being about providers actually providing care that costs them money, and most likely would save a life.

Maybe someday, should you have a disability, an illness that is potentially ...more
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 17, 11 11:46 PM
1 member liked this comment
As a resident of NY and business owner in NY please point out the key points in the health care bill that will help me and my employees? Market competetion is shrinking and pricing are rising. The Bill is a joke and deserves to be repealed so we can actually discuss "real" reform.
By razza5350 (1685), East Hampton on Nov 18, 11 9:33 AM
Market competition is NOT shrinking because of the affordable care act and prices are NOT rising because of the affordable care act. If you have been paying attention over the last decade you will see that healthcare premiums have increased every single year. In 1999 the average annual premium for families was $5,791.00 - today it is $24,180.00! Was "Obamacare" around in '99? Who did you blame in 2008?

As to your question regarding how it can help your small business, I have no doubt ...more
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Nov 18, 11 9:58 AM
Herman Cain? I am afraid I have to concur with razza5351's comment from Nov 16. But thanks for your input.
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Nov 18, 11 11:42 AM
1 member liked this comment
who will pick up the check? I will tell you and this from experience so listen up dbl std and fragger etc. I had a father in law many bucks so much he had to use mucho banks for all his dough but when we went out to dinner he pulled out his wallet and exclaimed "oh I'm sorry I thought there was more cash. You can get it bud." what I did not know at the time was he had another wallet in reserve in his jacket pocket. I found that out when he died. And from experience as a waitress the rich are ...more
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 18, 11 8:05 PM
Hey Cap'n, you know what the funny thing is?

They tell you it's 4.4%, but they don't tell you 4.4% of HOW MUCH.

How about a real number?
Nov 19, 11 2:45 PM appended by Mr. Z
“Profit margins basically reflect the percentage of revenue left over after paying SALARIES, expenses, taxes and lots of other things
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 19, 11 2:45 PM
I have a neighbor who's 20-something daughter was in a horrific car accident a few years ago-spent weeks in the hospital, many months in phys rehab, without insurance. Likewise I know of a 25 or so year old young man that had lukemia, and a successful bone marrow transplant saved his life, without insurance and with his parents spending over a hundred thousand out-of-pocket. That hospital tab was almost $1 million. They were both young and healthy and thanks to the govt paying the tab they are again ...more
By zaz (188), East Hampton on Nov 22, 11 6:13 PM
"To add: no one is disputing that problems exist. The problem is, Obamacare won't fix them."

Yet the radical liberal group is convinced that it will and that if you question it you are some kind of evil, corporate monster.

Since the comparison has been made, how many of these same angry libs here would defend Obamacare if it was penned by Romney? Yet, the knock on Romney is Romneycare. Healthcare has become a political debate, and that is just plain stupidity.
By double standard (1498), Remsenburg on Nov 18, 11 11:48 AM
I will agree with you on that point arguing about healthe care is stupidity. Just pay your share and all will shut up. And for all you family values and Pharissees out there, Jesus was the first liberal.
Think about it and maybe you will understand.
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 18, 11 8:11 PM
1 member liked this comment
OK Comrades and blatant Demokratz you have griped and complained and generally disagreed with every Conservative post on this subject. How wouls you solve the "problems" regarding "corporate facism" and rising medical costs an unemployment? Here's your chance to back up your B S .
By bigfresh (1728), north sea on Nov 18, 11 1:39 PM
I'll tell you tomorrow after work.
By summertime (583), summerfield fl on Nov 18, 11 8:12 PM
Didn't you know?

BF wrote his own DNA! That's righ! He's designed himself to be invulnerable to the maladies all others can suffer. He's the superior, new evolution, alpha male! He only needs catastrophic care insurance because the only kind of risks he faces are if he should he fall off a cliff, or end up in a serious wreck! No incurable diseases, or disability for him!!

That probably was not funny. At all...
By Mr. Z (7259), North Sea on Nov 20, 11 12:09 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By witch hazel (214), tatooine on Nov 18, 11 5:27 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Thomas Farrell, Lindenhurst on Feb 26, 12 11:00 AM
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