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Sep 26, 2018 10:22 AMPublication: The Southampton Press

Community Members Urge Southampton Town To Consider Legislation Limiting Local Police From Communicating With ICE, Honoring Warrants

Minerva Perez, the executive director of OLA. ELSIE BOSKAMP
Sep 26, 2018 10:58 AM

Dozens of community members, faith leaders and activists appeared before the Southampton Town Board on Tuesday night to voice concerns regarding what they say is a culture of fear in the immigrant community.

The nearly 25 people who spoke—many of whom were members of Organización Latino-Americana of Eastern Long Island, the Southampton Town Anti-Bias Task Force and Neighbors in Support of Immigrants—urged the board to consider adopting legislation formally agreeing that Town Police will not cooperate with agencies holding administrative warrants for non-violent immigrants, and narrowing the amount of information that flows from local law enforcement to U.S. Immmigration and Customs Enforcement agents.

Andrew Strong, general counsel for OLA, drafted legislation for the board to consider that is modeled on regulations already in place in communities in New York City and Westchester County. At the meeting, OLA officials said they planned to submit the draft to the board later this week.

Adopting such legislation would be a “positive step,” Mr. Strong noted, because allowing information to flow freely from local police to ICE investigators “ropes town law enforcement into doing the federal government’s job … creates a significant liability for the town … and undermines community members.”

“We need legislation that explicitly states how this town will protect members of our community now—not as an empty and toothless proclamation, but as a means to lawfully protect peaceful members of our community,” said Minerva Perez, the executive director of OLA.

She continued: “The town must step up to its position as leader and direct supervisor of our police chief to offer guidance related to any and all ICE interactions, including communication, use of town resources, acceptance of funds—directly or indirectly—and other practices.

“I know how much you all care and how much the chief cares, but we are facing times that require a level of diligence like no other. It’s not politics anymore—it’s people.”

Town Supervisor Jay Schneiderman thanked the community members for speaking, but did not speak on what steps, if any, the town would take in response to the concerns.

The number of ICE arrests nationally has been rising in recent years, according to data from the agency. In 2017, 143,470 arrests were made throughout the country—a 30 percent increase from the previous year.

Nelly Amaya, a Hampton Bays resident, was detained by ICE in 2007. Now, over a decade later, she has been documented for the past four years but said she still lives every day in fear.

“I need to be strong,” she said, holding back tears and showing her state driver’s license to the board. “They destroyed my life. I don’t feel any more safe here. It’s really heartbreaking.”

Ms. Perez and many of the community members present at the Tuesday night meeting spoke of similar concerns at a Town Board meeting almost a year and a half ago but say they received little response from the town. “It’s not acceptable,” local resident Tinka Topping said. “It’s almost too late.”

Former Manhattan immigration judge and Southampton resident Sarah Burr agreed, saying, “I’ve seen a lot, and what I see nowadays is the worst that I’ve seen, in terms of immigration law and immigration enforcement.

“I don’t know why the town or the county would do the federal government’s job for them,” she added. “These are ICE detainers—state and local police have no role in enforcing the federal government’s business.”

“You have the ability to act locally to protect people,” the Reverend Karen Campbell of Christ Episcopal Church in Sag Harbor added.

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so this to me is similar to a bank robber being let go because they robbed it in need of money. .... I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but that's ok. You know why? Cause as ADULTS in this country, we are all allowed to have opinions.
By LovedHerTown (131), southampton on Sep 26, 18 1:00 PM
The bank robber goes to prison, but their kids don't.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 26, 18 1:13 PM
No, this is a paramilitary branch of the Department of Homeland Security attempting to supersede and disregard the jurisdiction of local authorities in the pursuit of nonviolent individuals. Any true Republican or conservative would be averse to such an act. After all, its the Federal government imposing its will on local authorities...

As ADULTS, I think we can refrain from oversimplified analogies ...
By vexatiousmass (12), Sag Harbor on Sep 26, 18 1:15 PM
Either way, illegal. just saying
By LovedHerTown (131), southampton on Sep 26, 18 4:06 PM
Your analogy is not so apt after all, huh?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 26, 18 4:23 PM
You cross the border illegally, you accept the penalty and repercussions whether it be prison or deportation, similar to a bank robber accepting his/her repercussions.

The analogy is perfectly apt.
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Sep 26, 18 7:02 PM
Except that, again, we don't punish the children of bank robbers for their parent's crime.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 26, 18 8:35 PM
This event was one sided. It was not a true view or had any open dialogue of our community. No one discussed the issues truthfully. This is about illegal immigrants, not immigrants. We should work with the police and ICE.

My family immigrated to United States of America legally. Everyone that comes to America should. My family legally contributes to the community. Stop illegal immigration as it places people in harms way, including those that came undocumented with their families.

Illegal ...more
By Hamptonsway (63), Southampton on Sep 26, 18 11:09 PM
2 members liked this comment
Yeah and we don't reward the children by letting them keep the money either.
By dhehyo (11), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 10:43 AM
So what's the analogous equivalent of neither sending the child to prison, nor allowing them to keep the proceeds to a robbery?

The analogy is simply not very good, which was my original point.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 27, 18 10:49 AM
So it is ok to break the law in some instances rather than others? Please enlighten me.
By dhehyo (11), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 12:30 PM
1 member liked this comment
I think the "Bank Robber" analogy is actually pretty relevant. One could compare the Bank Robber that brings a weapon and demands cash as a "Violent Illegal Immigrant". Whereas the Bank Robber that calmly hands a note to the Bank Teller asking for money can be compared to a "Non-Violent Illegal Immigrant." Regardless of the method, the act of robbing a bank is illegal, and it should not be tolerated. The robber clearly knows what they are doing is wrongful, and are risking the consequences. The ...more
By WetSand09 (7), Hampton Bays on Sep 27, 18 1:10 PM
But we DO distinguish between non-violent thefts (larceny) and theft achieved via threats or violence (robbery), right?

In any event, I was speaking specifically about people who arrived in the US as minors through no fault of their own and have grown up as Americans. Those people don't deserve to get kicked out of the only place they've ever known as "home."
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 27, 18 1:25 PM
What a poor story. Elise is not reporting the facts and story correctly at all. This is not about the immigrant community but illegal immigrant community.

Illegal immigrants need to do it right. Make it right. By doing so you will have no fear and be part of a wonderful country here in United States of America.
By Hamptonsway (63), Southampton on Sep 30, 18 7:23 PM
If ICE and the police had the means at the time they could have prevented 9-11 by holding and deporting the 3 out of 5 terrorists here illegally due to their visas had expired.

Point is, local Police and ICE need to work with each other.
By Hamptonsway (63), Southampton on Oct 6, 18 8:19 PM
So they want Southampton Town PD to ignore the law...brilliant! Is that why they are giving SHPD the "free" translation i-phones, to further help criminals avoid the consequences of breaking our laws?
By Preliator Lives (406), Obamavillie on Sep 26, 18 1:56 PM
SERIOUSLY!!! Enough already !!

This is AMERICA the USA and the POLICE in EVERY TOWN should work to make ALL TOWNS safe and full of LAW ABIDING CITIZENS!! If you came here ILLEGALLY!! you are NOT A law abiding citizen therefore our POLICE that we pay with out taxes needs to do their jobs.
YOU PEOPLE ARE SERIOUSLY A JOKE ALWAYS TRYING TO PROTECT ILLEGALS RATHER THAN AMERICAN CITIZENS.
Sep 26, 18 2:02 PM appended by mychildmatters
SERIOUSLY!!! Enough already !! This is AMERICA the USA and the POLICE in EVERY TOWN should work to make ALL TOWNS safe and full of LAW ABIDING CITIZENS!! If you came here ILLEGALLY!! you are NOT A law abiding citizen therefore our POLICE that we pay with our taxes needs to do their jobs. YOU PEOPLE ARE SERIOUSLY A JOKE ALWAYS TRYING TO PROTECT ILLEGALS RATHER THAN AMERICAN CITIZENS.
By mychildmatters (67), SOUTHAMPTON on Sep 26, 18 2:02 PM
We should just pay higher taxes and keep taking care of the Latinos. No worries nobody else matters. Tell the police to stay at the station until they are needed.
By bigblue84 (89), Hampton Bays on Sep 26, 18 2:48 PM
My great, great grandparents came to this country, had to learn English in order to communicate and obeyed all laws. If you want to live in this country, you need to respect it. You need to speak English, obey our laws, work hard, pay taxes....like the rest of us. If you want your kids to have an education, you should help pay for same. If you don't like our laws, please feel free to go back to where you came from.
By NoName27 (16), Southampton on Sep 26, 18 3:17 PM
Not fear in the immigrant community but fear in the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT community, as it should be. These liberal tools are out of their minds.
By bigfresh (4384), north sea on Sep 26, 18 3:21 PM
Any Town Board member who comes out n favor of this illegal piece of legislation is putting their political career in jeopardy.
By bigfresh (4384), north sea on Sep 26, 18 3:24 PM
Meanwhile, democrats are suggesting Trump is a threat to our institutions.
By even flow (842), East Hampton on Sep 26, 18 3:41 PM
1 member liked this comment
Let’s just protect and harbor all peaceful law breakers, not just illegal aliens. What part of the word “illegal” are they not getting?
Sep 26, 18 3:50 PM appended by SDG1776
Although illegal entry and overstaying a visa is a misdemeanor, these peaceful members of the community don’t even have “work authorization” to “legally” work, and protecting them further fuels the illegal underground economy, promoting non-violent crimes such money laundering (23% of of all those convicted of money laundering are non-citizens), income tax evasion and other economic crimes (18% of all those convicted of economic crimes are non-citizens), identity theft, document fraud, theft of services, and the list goes on. “Non-Citizens Committed a Disproportionate Share of Federal Crimes, 2011-16: 21% of those convicted of non-immigration crimes were non-citizens— 2.5 times their share of the population”, by Steven A. Camarota, 01/10/2018, Center for Immigration Studies. DOJ: 26% of Federal Prisoners Are Aliens
By SDG1776 (114), Southampton on Sep 26, 18 3:50 PM
1 member liked this comment
We're watching the beginning of the end ........................ please Vote in November.
By HamptonDad (218), Hampton Bays on Sep 26, 18 4:05 PM
1 member liked this comment
Any politician who facilities people breaking the law for any reason, should be voted out of office. My grandparents were immigrants and they were as important to me as my parents. I bear no ill will to immigrants given my family background.
But entering the country illegally should never be tolerated.
We need political leaders who uphold all laws, state and federal. Not cooperating with ICE is tantamount to breaking the law..
By all seasons (9), southampton on Sep 26, 18 4:09 PM
No one spoke against this, is because now Law Abiding Citizen knew this was coming before the board.
My grandparents came from Poland to the US. They had to have a place to live and work. They received no free medical, prescriptions and food. They had to work legally and pay their way. They learned to speak English...
I am sorry some people think that AMERICA is free, you have to earn it..... Go to the dictionary and look up ILLEGAL. Undocumented is not the correct word...
By knitter (1725), Southampton on Sep 26, 18 4:28 PM
What happened to the priest that ministered to the Hispanic community,he was accused of molesting a little girl.He escaped the local police.
By watchdog1 (527), Southampton on Sep 26, 18 4:49 PM
I read this twice. Not once does it have the word “ILLEGAL” in it.

ICE only deports illegal immigrants. Illegal means, according to Mr. Webster, “contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law”. I was raised understanding that if you break the law, the big bad policeman will lock you up. If you read this article, it sounds like ICE is rounding up people with Green Cards and deporting them.
By Draggerman (908), Southampton on Sep 26, 18 6:12 PM
I wish that woman could be deported.
By Babyboo (275), Hampton Bays on Sep 26, 18 7:10 PM
1 member liked this comment
We need to vote out all of these crazy leftists.

By Babyboo (275), Hampton Bays on Sep 26, 18 7:11 PM
2 members liked this comment
This article is an example of the lopsided reporting that has become all too pervasive in American media. Not once were the terms “illegal”, “undocumented”, “aliens”, or get this one, “LAW” found in this article. Typical liberal reporting, injecting a sad story of fear against the law. We all know who’s paying for our overcrowded schools, courts,prisons,hospitals, WIC programs, etc. I know there’s an agenda here, but please be a bit less ...more
By Lets go mets (359), Southampton on Sep 26, 18 7:21 PM
Just FYI:

Bodies of Six Month Old Children Found in Mexico Mass Graves

By Christina Zhao
NewsWeek
9/24/18 AT 6:58 AM

Mexican authorities have found the remains of children as young as six-months-old in clandestine burial pits in the Gulf state of Veracruz.

Mexican authorities discovered the mass graves, containing 166 skulls, earlier this month. That figure was officially updated to 174 by the Interior Ministry on Friday as the investigation continued.

In ...more
By Mr. Z (11376), North Sea on Sep 26, 18 7:21 PM
It's why people can claim asylum....legally to which ICE has no jurisdiction.
Sep 26, 18 8:02 PM appended by Po Boy
I assuming the point is we should allow the masses into the United States, unchecked.... um....no. Given you were against jus soli once upon a time if memory serves me, that's an astounding position.
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Sep 26, 18 8:02 PM
I am a staunch supporter of jus sanguinis. Like most of the countries who are either that or restricted jus soli in the free world.

You assume wrong. Pretty strong track record there. The article is food for thought. Even for those who lack a proverbial cerebral GI tract, as it were...

By Mr. Z (11376), North Sea on Sep 26, 18 8:51 PM
Isn't "against jus soli" the same as "staunch supporter of jus sanguinis?"

So, what was the point of you posting an article as "Just FYI" where children remains were found within a thread focused around illegal immigration?
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 1, 18 2:39 PM
OK JuneZ, Veracruz is a s h ithole, what's your point?
By bigfresh (4384), north sea on Sep 26, 18 8:01 PM
So now we're going to be a "Sanctuary Town?" Maybe they should also pass legislation saying local authorities won't honor federal environmental laws? How would the leftists feel about that? I wonder if the speakers would be up in arms if the vast numbers of illegal immigrants were not latino. Would they be asking the Town for this law if those being deported were German?

Our elected board members should read the Constitution, which they swore to uphold and defend.
By HB90 (160), southampton on Sep 26, 18 8:01 PM
2 members liked this comment
I have have to say I am pleasantly surprised by the other comments. I have total respect for the immigrants here that are trying to make money and help their families. But there is a process to becoming a citizenship. Many of my fellow citizens seem to feel no matter how you got here you deserve the full benefits of a legal resident Sadly there is only so much money to go around (schools, benefits, social security, Medicare, etc). Above all our safety. Restricting the police in monitoring people ...more
By Stolzr (8), Bridgehampton on Sep 26, 18 8:25 PM
2 members liked this comment
Latinos are here plain and simple because of the business community. Latinos do every crap job the white businessman can dish out. You can do what Reagen did and give amnesty to millions of undocumented. Get people out of the shadows and paying taxes. Most latinos I have come across are religious, hard working, and want to achieve the American Dream, just like your descendants. Stop with that b.s., they don't want to learn the language. Trust the American system. Peer pressure in school through ...more
By Mets fan (1436), Southampton on Sep 26, 18 8:59 PM
You seem to have a lot of interesting observations about "white people", and the way they behave, that is, in your little fable they are the bad guys. Next we have another stereotype, this one of the honest, hard working illegal alien family man that merely wishes to make a little money while being abused by whitey, and when he isn't working, he's going to church.
By MoronEliminator (199), Montauk on Sep 27, 18 2:56 AM
1 member liked this comment
They're bad guys if only for hiring illegal workers, most owners have to fill jobs and do it the only way they can. My so called "stereotype" is more true than yours, that all Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers. I knew if I was too honest, the racist right wing nuts would rear it's ugly head, which of course it did.
By Mets fan (1436), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 5:48 AM
I find the use of the term "White" offensive, I demand 27 east remove this racist and demeaning slang. I prefer "Caucasian-American", how dare you be so insensitive to my feelings and background.
By Preliator Lives (406), Obamavillie on Sep 27, 18 10:02 AM
Fyi, "black" is not a dirty word. In fact, black folks from places like Haiti, Jamaica, etc. hate being called "African American."
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 27, 18 10:21 AM
1 member liked this comment
They are here ILLEGALLY! They are always free to return to their own country.
By tim2011 (17), southampton on Sep 26, 18 9:00 PM
come here illegally and demand rights? ahh, must be nice.......
By ArturoBandini (29), on Sep 26, 18 9:39 PM
1 member liked this comment
Ask the legal latinos who had to go through the process what they think of the border jumpers. No cutting in line at the deli, no cutting at the border.
By lirider (270), Hampton Bays on Sep 26, 18 9:54 PM
Don't want illegals deported? Tell them to immigrate legally in the first place.

Its not a difficult process in the slightest.

By TrueHamptons (33), Sag Harbor on Sep 26, 18 10:45 PM
Over a 1,000,000 immigrants are allowed into the United States legally each year. This isn't transforming voter demographics quickly enough though, so flooding the country with illegals who'll be given the right to vote once Dems regain control will ensure permanent one party rule.
By MoronEliminator (199), Montauk on Sep 27, 18 2:29 AM
Tell me truehamptons, how long is the process and how much does it cost? I'm curious about your answer.
By Mets fan (1436), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 11:42 AM
How does an illegal get to vote?
By Mets fan (1436), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 11:43 AM
By car or bus?
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 1, 18 4:22 PM
Of course this would happen as we, the legal local people have become the minority and the Latino community has become the majority .

Millionaires and Mexicans theory is in Full affect.

There’s a reason why so many of us legal, born and raised citizens are struggling to find affordable housing an jobs here on the east end.
By toes in the water (847), southampton on Sep 27, 18 7:06 AM
1 member liked this comment
Maybe if the police were actually protecting the legal immigrant community here they wouldn't be so fearful. Wake up neighbors your rants about illegal immigration are missing the point.
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (690), southampton on Sep 27, 18 8:20 AM
The legal immigrant community doesn't have anything rational to fear.

People in the country illegally rightfully should fear deportation, as they are here illegally. Its kinda like a thief should fear getting arrested and jailed.
By TrueHamptons (33), Sag Harbor on Sep 27, 18 10:55 AM
1 member liked this comment
The legal immigrant community is ignored by law enforcement - there is plenty to fear. You should talk to some of these legal immigrants that you speak of.
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (690), southampton on Sep 27, 18 1:04 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By SlimeAlive (1180), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 9:48 AM
1 member liked this comment
Latin-American immigrants are a wonderful addition to our community : )
By Aeshtron (320), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 10:15 AM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By knitter (1725), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 10:49 AM
Latin-american immigrants are nice, not ILLEGAL S ,,, Also not AMERICANS...
By knitter (1725), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 10:49 AM
@ knitter: Your comment at 10:49am on Sept 27 was eloquent and shows a deep understanding of both American history and English language. Please refer to a map -- all of the countries in South and North America collectively make up the America's. People living anywhere between Nunavit Canada and Cape Horn Chile are Americans.

UNNECESSARY AND AWFULLY PUNCTUATED,,,,BUTCHERING OF LANGUAGE TO BOLSTER MY POINT...!!!
By Aeshtron (320), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 12:02 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By mtkfishman (69), montauk on Sep 27, 18 11:29 AM
Saddened and sickened to see so many racist, anti-immigrant comments here.
By oneseriousSicilian (61), medford on Sep 27, 18 11:46 AM
R u really that surprised though?
By johnj (992), Westhampton on Sep 27, 18 12:25 PM
We believe in a country of laws, so we're racist?

BTW, it's anti-ILLEGAL immigrant with emphasis on "illegal."
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 1, 18 4:19 PM
Anti ILLEGAL sentiment, facts are facts
By bigfresh (4384), north sea on Sep 27, 18 11:49 AM
Sympathies aside, do we really want our Town Board to be deciding which Federal Laws our police will enforce and which they wont? If you want to answer this question honestly, ask yourself “what if I loved the federal policy in question, and the Town Board refused to have the police enforce it?” I say: let’s not burden this Town Board (which struggles already with our legitimate local issues) with reversing the outcome of federal elections we may or may not like.
By CPalmer (78), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 12:55 PM
Translation: let's burden the SHPD with doing the federal government's job instead.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 27, 18 1:03 PM
Local police do the federal government’s job every single day. Local law enforcement is the most critical ally the FBI has. Surely we want the SHPD helping the Feds catch terrorists and drug kingpins and child molesters who break federal laws? Your position is they shouldn’t help on the laws you dont like. That’s what federal elections are for, not our Town Board who can’t even get the traffic right IMHO.
By CPalmer (78), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 1:34 PM
Your position is that states and localities should enforce federal law indiscriminately?

For example, why would Denver PD enforce Federal laws regarding cannabis?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 27, 18 1:38 PM
FB - Some other Federal crimes: homicide, murder, assault, manslaughter, sexual assault, rape, robbery, negligence, endangerment, kidnapping, extortion, harassment fraud (cheque fraud, credit card fraud, mortgage fraud, medical fraud, corporate fraud, securities fraud (including insider trading), bank fraud, insurance fraud, market manipulation, payment (point of sale) fraud, health care fraud); theft; scams or confidence tricks; tax evasion; bribery; embezzlement; identity theft; money laundering; ...more
By bird (785), Sag Harbor on Sep 27, 18 2:40 PM
I'm not giving an opinion on your laundry list of crimes, just highlighting a flaw in the belief that localities should always enforce federal law.

Why should the folks in DC decide how our officers' time is spent?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 27, 18 2:45 PM
Nobody is asking for " DC to decide how our officer's time is spent."
The criminals who've jumped the border are asking that the police be prevented from taking action against them through legislation there by defacto legalizing their criminal activity.
By bird (785), Sag Harbor on Sep 27, 18 2:50 PM
1 member liked this comment
Doesn't the federal government have its own arm of immigration enforcement officers?

Why are they taking up our officers' time enforcing federal law?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 27, 18 2:54 PM
I repeat: Some other Federal crimes: homicide, murder, assault, manslaughter, sexual assault, rape, robbery, negligence, endangerment, kidnapping, extortion, harassment fraud (cheque fraud, credit card fraud, mortgage fraud, medical fraud, corporate fraud, securities fraud (including insider trading), bank fraud, insurance fraud, market manipulation, payment (point of sale) fraud, health care fraud); theft; scams or confidence tricks; tax evasion; bribery; embezzlement; identity theft; money laundering; ...more
By bird (785), Sag Harbor on Sep 27, 18 3:01 PM
Aren't many of those, if not all, also state crimes?

That would make a difference.
Sep 27, 18 3:11 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Another easy example is federal tax fraud. The IRS has its own armed officers and investigators who refer their findings to the DOJ for prosecution. Why should local PD do their job? That's why they don't.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 27, 18 3:11 PM
"Some" are also state crimes.
Doesn't make any difference.
Police investigate.
Prosecutors decide if, when, how and under which statutes to prosecute.
By bird (785), Sag Harbor on Sep 27, 18 3:19 PM
Can you specify which ones are federal crimes but not state crimes?

I'm confident all of those fall under state jurisdiction in some way or other.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 27, 18 3:24 PM
It's irrelevant.

Almost all the Federal crimes listed above would be investigated, at least initially, by local police.

Example: I was once part of a business with a bookkeeper who was embezzling money by moving money (checks) between the different businesses she was working for. One of the businesses caught on and called the LOCAL police who initiated an investigation. Federally insured banks / Federal crime.
By bird (785), Sag Harbor on Sep 27, 18 3:43 PM
FB - Your "tax fraud" analogy is also irrelevant since it is a crime that would be unlikely to be reported to local police. On the other hand, Should local investigators come across evidence of tax fraud while investigating something else, they may well alert the Feds.

What the illegal community is asking that it be illegal for local police to alert the feds to Federal crime, thus making the local PD complicet in their crimes and actively aiding in the cover up.
By bird (785), Sag Harbor on Sep 27, 18 4:05 PM
1 member liked this comment
Lol, well since you are the sole determinant of what is relevant I'll leave you to debate the substance on your own.

Instead, I'll point out that undocumented people are, far and wide, keeping their heads down out of fear. It is their friends, neighbors, and colleagues who witness that fear and feel compelled to act.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 27, 18 4:19 PM
Has it been proven that non-violent individuals have been targeted?

By laa71 (3), SAG HARBOR on Sep 27, 18 1:19 PM
Let's make a list of what laws we want to enforce and which ones we can ignore. This is a silly discussion we are all equal under the law no one gets special treatment under the law.
By chief1 (2725), southampton on Sep 27, 18 2:37 PM
But localities CAN and DO decide what federal laws to enforce on a regular basis. Marijuana is an easy example.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 27, 18 2:40 PM
Yes and local police frequently let friends, family, PBA supporters and other well connected individuals off on crimes. And when those crimes are egregious enough or the individual has abused the privilege often enough, the police act. The difference is that no one on "THE FRIENDS AND FAIMLY" plan is asking that their privilege be codified into law.
By bird (785), Sag Harbor on Sep 27, 18 2:59 PM
But localities CAN and DO codify into law departures from federal law.

Where those departures don't represent the electorate's wishes, the electorate is free to vote the bums out and replace them with bums that agree with them.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 27, 18 3:32 PM
Yes, and since Long Island voted for Trump in the last election, largely I suspect on the illegals issue, those on the Town Board who like their job better keep that in mind. The true politicians will wait till November before looking at this to see which way the wind is blowing.
By bird (785), Sag Harbor on Sep 27, 18 3:48 PM
1 member liked this comment
Bird, it doesn’t need to be codified into law, they already have privileges.
By Fred s (2599), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 3:52 PM
FredS - Agreed.
By bird (785), Sag Harbor on Sep 27, 18 3:58 PM
Wouldn't the "true politicians" always be wary of which way the wind blows?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 27, 18 4:16 PM
Good politicians always got a finger up to see which way the winds blowing. They never go on the offensive till there’s blood in the water.
By Fred s (2599), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 4:26 PM
I love the debate about Federalism here. I think there are great arguments on both sides. My main point is more practical: do we really want our town board delving into national issues by picking and choosing which federal laws to enforce? Do we think they have nailed every local issue and should now spread their wings?
By CPalmer (78), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 5:11 PM
That seems like a question each one of us can answer at the polls.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 27, 18 5:18 PM
Amen
By CPalmer (78), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 5:45 PM
How can this organization even be legal? Any organization against the government has a name. Why doesn't the illegal undocumented people here just turn themselves in so we don't need ice
By Win sky (47), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 6:09 PM
Win sky, what does that mean? Needs a name?
By Fred s (2599), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 6:17 PM
Just get to the polls in November and vote these left wing lunatics out of office.
By BillWillConn3 (177), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 6:19 PM
2 members liked this comment
Bill, there’s no mention in the article of anyone on the town board saying anything, pro or con.
By Fred s (2599), Southampton on Sep 27, 18 6:35 PM
And that's the issue Phil, our Board members should have come out against this requested illegal plan on the spot. Now is not the time for them to be silent.
By bigfresh (4384), north sea on Sep 28, 18 6:59 AM
2 members liked this comment
Vote out your republicans also then.
By Fred s (2599), Southampton on Sep 28, 18 7:10 AM
I am not a party Uber alles voter Freddy. Any who come out in favor of this is out
By bigfresh (4384), north sea on Sep 28, 18 4:14 PM
1 member liked this comment
A group comes to the town board representing illegal aliens and wants taxpayers to pay for their protection from federal law? Whiskey tango foxtrot
By chief1 (2725), southampton on Sep 29, 18 12:36 AM
Sadly, we are already paying for all the illegal immigrants here and in more ways than one.
By toes in the water (847), southampton on Sep 29, 18 7:04 AM
Below is an excerpt by two former Suffolk County Democratic elected officials:
“The proliferation of illegal immigrants is threatening the basic harmony and quality of life in the suburbs of Long Island. Illegal immigrants are hurting the county’s economy by driving down wages that would otherwise be paid to legal residents, immigrants or not. Illegal immigrants are driving up costs for schools, hospitals, jails, courts and the police, and Suffolk taxpayers are unnecessarily footing ...more
By Dawn_O (45), Southampton on Sep 29, 18 7:19 AM
1 member liked this comment
There is no upside for the US to illegal immigration

And immigrants =/= illegal immigrants.
By even flow (842), East Hampton on Sep 29, 18 7:27 AM
There is NO upside?

If I find a single person who was undocumented at some point and made a positive contribution, are you wrong?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 29, 18 8:02 AM
In other words you don’t know any.
By even flow (842), East Hampton on Sep 29, 18 8:26 AM
Are you a dog person? Cesar Milan was undocumented at one point.

Also, there's plenty of undocumented people who became doctors and lawyers, many who I do happen to know personally, but if you're looking for a published story just Google "Harold Fernandez, MD", the Princeton/Harvard-educated Chief of Cardiac Surgery at Southside Hospital in Bay Shore.

I hope one of them saves your life some day :)
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 29, 18 8:42 AM
ILLEGAL immigration is a net negative when it comes to taxation, schools and the myriad social services that the illegals avail themselves of. You just fail to grasp the difference of LEGAL VS ILLEGAL immigration foreign, or you do understand the difference and are in favor of open borders. Being in this still great nation is a crime and illegals are criminals by just being here and our Town Board was presented with a proposal to aid and abet harboring criminals , strange days indeed.
By bigfresh (4384), north sea on Sep 29, 18 8:34 AM
There's definitely some undocumented folks who should be deported, while there's also undocumented folks who shouldn't.

If I can readily admit the former, why can't you admit the latter?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 29, 18 8:44 AM
Bigfresh, can you cite where you get your facts from? Remember the FAIR report is factually flawed. Give some insight .
By Fred s (2599), Southampton on Sep 29, 18 9:56 AM
Jeez Phil, if a group of illegals work off the books they are a net negative when it comes to federal and state income taxes when 3 families with a few kids each rent a house and the homeowner pays the school taxes it's a net negative, when illegals use our hospitals as their primary health care providers and pay NOTHING, it's a negative. No studies need to be cited, just take a good look around you, it's plain as the nose on your face.
By bigfresh (4384), north sea on Sep 29, 18 8:39 PM
2 members liked this comment
You're also presuming those folks aren't going to contribute an equal or greater amount.

The Chief of Cardiac Surgery referenced above comes to mind. Again, can you admit that some undocumented folks shouldn't be deported?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 29, 18 8:50 PM
Bigfresh, give me a site with stats to back it up, that’s all.at this point it’s your opinion. I appreciate your opinion, but that’s not fact.
By Fred s (2599), Southampton on Sep 29, 18 8:49 PM
alll we get from you is YOUR opinion which is also not fact, so what's your point? how are your school taxes in southampton? mine are 6,400- school is now 70% hispanic!!-and I'm pretty sure some of them are illegal . . .
By CaptainSig (709), Dutch Harbor on Sep 30, 18 5:57 AM
According to New York State, the Southampton School District is about half as as hispanic as you think it is.

That's why facts matter.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 30, 18 6:45 AM
Back it up with facts Capt. That’s all. Simple as that. I gave no opinion either way. Did I say anyone was right or wrong? No. Just prove your point with valid facts.
Sep 30, 18 6:50 AM appended by Fred s
Capt. According to data.nysed.gov Hispanics make up 32% of students in Southampton school districts.
By Fred s (2599), Southampton on Sep 30, 18 6:50 AM
1 member liked this comment
Enrollment by Hispanic or Latino ethnicity in Tuckahoe Common School District for 2016-2017 as per NYSED was 64%. The claim of 70% for current year is accurate if referring to Tuckahoe district.

Your 32% number was for 2015. 2016-2017 is 39% for Southampton.

The percentages are likely “understated” due to self-identified ethnic disclosure by individual being optional, not mandatory.
Sep 30, 18 8:18 AM appended by SDG1776
Someone please correct me if I’m wrong on what was meant to be race disclosure, not ethnic disclosure. Is it mandatory or optional for a parent or guardian of student to disclose race?
By SDG1776 (114), Southampton on Sep 30, 18 8:18 AM
1 member liked this comment
SDG, I didn’t know where he was stating, just gave the whole town.
By Fred s (2599), Southampton on Sep 30, 18 8:25 AM
I would agree with Bigfresh. Just wondering if anyone can provide a source invalidating the opinion?

The most comprehensive study substantiating a net fiscal burden was performed by the Heritage Foundation, having its flaws too, not fatal flaws as per FAIR’s report, with Heritage having a right leaning bias and agenda.

Heritage Foundation: The Fiscal Cost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S. Taxpayer
Over an hour read
May 6, 2013
Authors:
Jason ...more
Sep 30, 18 8:48 AM appended by SDG1776
Regardless of substantiated evidence, I believe that the concencus of voters weigh in on how immigration affects them as individuals or as a family unit, some benefiting from illegal immigration, and others being harmed by it. Each person’s experience and situation is unique to to them, each having their own opinion, and will vote accordingly.
By SDG1776 (114), Southampton on Sep 30, 18 8:48 AM
SDG, I’ll read it later. I read the Cato Institute study. It blew holes in the FAIR study.
By Fred s (2599), Southampton on Sep 30, 18 8:58 AM
38.4% depending on how much we want to split hairs. That's about half of Cap's ignorant 70%, which is my main gripe: ignorance.
Oct 1, 18 9:13 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Of course everyone is entitled to vote in line with their own opinion, even when that opinion is based on lies like the belief that the Southampton School District is 70% Hispanic.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Sep 30, 18 9:13 AM
common sense Phil , take a look around you and think!! An example: there are multiple houses that paid , lets see, $ 3K per year in property taxes , before the invasion there were single families living in these houses and they each sent a few, English speaking kids to school on that 3 K. Post invasion, there are multiple families living in the same houses, each family sending a few kids needing ESL classes to school on the same 3 K. Not a good scenario, the funds aren't there to pay for the illegals' ...more
By bigfresh (4384), north sea on Oct 1, 18 6:31 AM
1 member liked this comment
I noticed you still didn't confront the question of whether some undocumented folks should be allowed to remain in the country.

Your silence is telling.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 1, 18 6:57 AM
I'm not here to "confront" any of your questions , but I'll ANSWER this one-- anyone in the country illegally should be ejected, get in line and come legally, is that clear?
By bigfresh (4384), north sea on Oct 1, 18 7:13 AM
2 members liked this comment
Even folks who were brought here through no choice of their own?

And those who have taken full advantage of the opportunities available in the country to become highly educated and trained in valuable fields?

Why would you want to kick out a person who would become the Chief of Cardiac Surgery at a local hospital?

The fact is that person would be barred from "getting in line" for ten years upon deportation. Shouldn't we capitalize on the sunk cost of educating that person ...more
Oct 1, 18 7:38 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
I know you're "not here to CONFRONT any...questions" I just find enlightening which questions you choose to answer, and when.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 1, 18 7:38 AM
"The fact is that person would be barred from "getting in line" for ten years upon deportation."

Choose wisely for choices have consequences for both you and your children.
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 1, 18 2:44 PM
Po: I thought you were on the side of not punishing children for their parents crime in this case?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 1, 18 2:51 PM
The adult gets deported and faces the consequences of gaining legal status and the illegal minor gets deported - period.

I don't think that is punishing a child nor unreasonable.

By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 1, 18 4:15 PM
I thought you were onboard with not deporting some people who arrived in the country as minors and grew up with the US as the only home they've ever known?

Plenty of people would agree that deporting folks who are American in all ways except on paper is wrong.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 1, 18 7:51 PM
Ah, "Dreamers" vs. apprehended

Choose wisely for choices have consequences for both you and your children. I'm opposed to giving any resemblance to rewarding illegal behavior in relation to those who came here legally, whether you are a an adult or a minor. You can fill in the blanks on the particulars from there whether it be deportation or the granting of legal status, especially citizenship.



Oct 1, 18 8:46 PM appended by Po Boy
"American in all ways except on paper" is commonly referred to as illegal and people would also say that giving status (especially citizenship) to those who came here illegally (adult or not) more favorably than those who follow the law is wrong.
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 1, 18 8:46 PM
As long as we both disagree with BF's proposition that all undocumented people be indiscriminately deported, as do most people, I'm happy.

But you haven't even really said that either, just that you recognize it's impractical to deport everyone and that protecting certain people from deportation is "open to discussion," even if it remains unclear what part you play in that discussion.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 1, 18 10:40 PM
I'm neither confirming or denying the position on your newly introduced term "indiscriminately deported" as each situation is different and should be based on it's own merits or lack thereof. Now aside from the so-called "Dreamers" (those here legally have a Dream too, you know) here illegally because let's face it, it really is two separate issues, sure, deport every single illegal indiscriminately and let them face the consequences of coming here illegally.
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 2, 18 9:25 AM
You seem to agree that we shouldn't deport every single person who's here illegally, but go to lengths to avoid saying it. Why?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 2, 18 9:32 AM
All things being equal those here illegally should certainly be deported.
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 2, 18 11:44 AM
That's still conditional and contains unnecessary verbiage.

You seem to agree that some people deserve to stay, but avoid saying it at all costs.

Why?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 2, 18 11:59 AM
A complex issue should not be abdicated with simplistic (over) generalizations or mass unquestioned acquiescence.

btw, if you are here illegally regardless of the circumstances, you don't "deserve" anything. You are owed nothing.
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 2, 18 1:53 PM
But clearly you can think of a scenario where a person should be allowed to remain in the country despite being undocumented; why is it so hard for you to say that?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 2, 18 2:12 PM
Actually, no I can't think of a scenario. I would need to know the consequence to this illegal person in lieu of being deported, only then will I be in a position to tell you whether I believe they should/shouldn't be deported.

I say again, I'm opposed to giving any resemblance to rewarding illegal behavior in relation to those who came here legally, whether you are a an adult or a minor. You can fill in the blanks on the particulars from there whether it be deportation or the granting ...more
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 2, 18 2:50 PM
Exactly! You imply that there's some consequence short of deportation that would get you on-board with allowing a person to remain in the country!

But why can't you just say that? Frankly, now I'm more interested in this question than what your hypothetical scenario would like.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 2, 18 3:01 PM
And if there is no consequence for the "cream of the crop", deport them - 100%.
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 2, 18 4:18 PM
I don't understand your reluctance to typing the words "X can stay if Y" but I guess it's just something you haven't thought out thoroughly, and that's ok.

It's enough that you've considered there are some conditions undocumented folks could meet that should allow them to stay, as opposed to BF's total and unqualified resistance.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 2, 18 6:30 PM
You've convinced me Fore. Thank you for providing the impetus for clarity.

Anyone in the country illegally should be ejected, get in line and come legally.
Oct 2, 18 9:19 PM appended by Po Boy
It took the repeated efforts to get me to say what you wanted me to hear for me to realize, there really is no gray area which would be acceptable unless it is as you wish it to be.
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 2, 18 9:19 PM
Great! Thank you for the clarity. Now it's both you AND big fresh failing to approach the topic with nuance.
Oct 3, 18 12:01 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
You should know by now, Po: I'm less interested in changing your mind than getting you to spell out your beliefs. After all, seeing the flaws in your own beliefs is more likely to change your mind than anything I could say.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 3, 18 12:01 AM
Nuance was exactly how the topic was being approached, you just didn't like the belief, in this case, that there should be consequences.

By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 3, 18 9:20 AM
I certainly didn't resist your belief that there should be consequences...for what again? That's the part I'm curious about.

Why can't you say: "Some undocumented people should be allowed to stay in the U.S. if they meet certain conditions."

It's not that hard!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 3, 18 9:26 AM
Because until those conditions are known for those in the U.S. illegally, let alone the illegal population we're referring to, it's all conjecture. It's very possible the conditions wouldn't rise to my opinion level nor would the illegal population we're referring to, which would then warrant deportation. Short of that, deport all illegals.
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 3, 18 10:41 AM
So is there, or isn't there, a set of conditions that could "rise to your opinion level"?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 3, 18 10:47 AM
How many times would you like to repeat the same question and response?
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 3, 18 11:29 AM
As many times as it takes you to land on an actual answer, probably.

It sounds like you think there is some undefined set of conditions that would convince you, but you avoid saying it at all costs. Why?

Why is it so hard to say: "Yes, there's probably a set of conditions that could convince me that a person should be allowed to stay, even if I'm not sure what those conditions would look like."
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 3, 18 11:36 AM
Actually, no I can't think of a scenario. I would need to know the consequence to this illegal person in lieu of being deported, only then will I be in a position to tell you whether I believe they should/shouldn't be deported.

I say again, I'm opposed to giving any resemblance to rewarding illegal behavior in relation to those who came here legally, whether you are a an adult or a minor. You can fill in the blanks on the particulars from there whether it be deportation or the granting ...more
Oct 3, 18 12:53 PM appended by Po Boy
Why is it that you can't accept opinion that unknowns need to be identified before an entire position is "surrendered?" Why is that so important to you?
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 3, 18 12:53 PM
But again, you seem to imply there is SOME consequence that would convince you, yet avoid saying it. Why?

Who's surrendering any position? You and I could very well be an ocean apart on what that consequence may be, irrespective of whether you've actually given any thought to the particulars.

Would it hurt you so much to admit there is some set of circumstances in which an undocumented person should be allowed to stay? Your reluctance is so strange it inspires a morbid curiosity.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 3, 18 1:36 PM
But again, why would I remotely concede any point or agree to any circumstance without first knowing the full details? I've laid out basic parameters, to include absolute deportation as a consequence.

Why is that so important to you?
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 3, 18 1:45 PM
As I said, it inspires a morbid curiosity, although now that you've put it in terms of "surrendering" and "conceding", I think I get it: you don't want to "lose" the discussion, LOL.

For what it's worth, I can easily say, without knowing the full details, that there exist a set of circumstances where people should be deported; it doesn't hurt.
Oct 3, 18 1:55 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
It's a shame that you think finding common ground is a loss...but here we are.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 3, 18 1:55 PM
LOL, to the contrary, there is really nothing to lose other than agreeing to something to which I have no idea what I'm agreeing to and refuse to do so out of principle. I actually find the statement / sentiment "Some [illegal] undocumented people should be allowed to stay in the U.S. if they meet certain conditions" flawed on its very premise, as "meeting certain conditions" is not the same as "consequences" which illegality should bring.


Oct 3, 18 2:41 PM appended by Po Boy
Common ground discussion with a Democrat involves giving up your principles usually to the detriment of the country...but here we are.
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 3, 18 2:41 PM
Conditions could certainly be synonymous with consequences, for example conditions of being allowed to stay could be monetary fines, no access to citizenship, community service, and/or being required to recite the pledge of allegiance every morning for the rest of your life.

In any event, even if the bar of conditions or consequences was so high that no undocumented person would reach it (say, a billion-dollar donation to the Federal coffers, your first-born, and a literal arm & leg), I ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 3, 18 2:55 PM
I don't see it that way as ultimately the consequences already noted at the start would put illegality at the back of the line. That's not a condition.

If conditions "could" be synonymous with consequences that also means conditions could NOT be synonymous with consequences. Accept the difference of opinion and respect it.

Oct 3, 18 3:03 PM appended by Po Boy
And if any of this sounds familiar extracted from above, as you can see, "conditions" doesn't fit. "The fact is that person would be barred from "getting in line" for ten years upon deportation." "Choose wisely for choices have consequences for both you and your children."
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 3, 18 3:03 PM
Well yeah, a condition can be a requirement for qualification at the beginning (not a consequence) OR it can be a necessary condition that must be met afterward (a consequence).

I understand you don't want to "surrender", but I get the impression that you either recognize and reject the moral & practical implications of deporting all undocumented people, or simply want to appear as if you're "open to discussion."

In either case, it's a cowardly and halfhearted approach you're taking.
Oct 3, 18 3:37 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
For more information, Google "condition precedent vs condition subsequent"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 3, 18 3:37 PM
And besides, it became evident early into the discussion (as usual) that your focus and interest was personal and solely based on getting me to admit to the argument you wanted contrary to my assertions otherwise.

Afterall, who was it that repeatedly had ? at the end of every post? So who is it that was interested in not wanting to "lose?"

Cowardly? LMAO. That's clear indication you've lost.
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 3, 18 4:02 PM
Wouldn't that be prejudicial or racist? Who gets to pick and chose which 'undocumented folks" get to stay?

Makes more sense to say if you are here illegally, you need to either get on the path to being legal or leave.

By bb (884), Hampton Bays on Oct 3, 18 5:50 PM
Wouldn't this individual do more good in their own country? Where is their patriotism? They would be making a difference in the lives of their own countrymen. I don't understand why such a successful individual would stay here ILLEGALLY instead of returning home and leaving their mark. If they want to come back, fine...do it LEGALLY.


By bb (884), Hampton Bays on Oct 3, 18 5:54 PM
Wouldn't this individual do more good in their own country? Where is their patriotism? They would be making a difference in the lives of their own countrymen. I don't understand why such a successful individual would stay here ILLEGALLY instead of returning home and leaving their mark. If they want to come back, fine...do it LEGALLY.


By bb (884), Hampton Bays on Oct 3, 18 5:54 PM
Po: As usual, my comments end in question marks because I'm interested in what you think.

However, you're being coy about what you think here: Is there a set of circumstances in which you believe a person should be allowed to stay? It's a fairly easy question you avoid answering at all costs.

BB: You're oversimplifying the situation. There simply isn't a path to "being legal" for people who entered the country illegally that doesn't require them leaving for a minimum of a decade ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 3, 18 6:22 PM
Easy questions to complex issues will often illicit complex answers particularly in the realm of the hypothetical to include even a starting flawed premise - because current law can permit someone here illegal to remain here under certain situations if certain steps are taken. Why is it you can't accept an answer that reflects the complexity?

Void of any definitive identifiable consequences, I'll acquiesce even to condition that is consistent with law, the already stated answer - now directly ...more
Oct 4, 18 8:21 AM appended by Po Boy
Could it be that the your inability to accept a complex answer to a complex issue is more about scoring a ideologue point rather than having a serious discussion which seems to be void of any acknowledgement of the realities of the complexity?
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 4, 18 8:21 AM
There's nothing wrong with saying "no" and that's what I'm taking your word salad to mean. Most people would disagree with your belief that we should jettison people who have grown up in the U.S. to a country they don't remember, but that's your opinion and you are free to hold it.

I would have preferred to hear that you were a "yes" or even a "maybe" as I had previously thought based on your assertion that you were "open to discussion" but I'm not surprised.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 4, 18 9:44 AM
"but I'm not surprised."

You create this overly simplistic scenario of ex remely complex issues void of particulars other thanithc front end ide listic issue, and when that overly simplistic question is called out for not only containing a false premise and foundation but particulars that would feed into an educated (non emotional) response that can really only be answered in complex terms (IMO at that), you personalize it with passive aggressive innuendo. Here's some advice if you can ...more
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 4, 18 11:19 AM
Most people wouldn't have such a hard time answering whether they think there's a set of circumstances under which an undocumented person should be allowed to stay in the country, but you're certainly not "most people" Po.

And what surprise is just mine? I said I'm NOT surprised.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 4, 18 11:31 AM
I had no difficulty whatsoever answering the question. The problem is that most people could understand someone else's position, or at least accept it even if they didn't agree with it. You could neither accept the answer nor respect it. It wasn't the response to which the question was formed to illicit.

You being not surprised, is just that, yours. Own your lack of surprise.
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 4, 18 8:44 PM
I think you mean "elicit" but English isn't my first language. Maybe that's why I don't understand your answer either. What was it again? Ues, no, or maybe?

I do own my lack of surprise...that's why I said I'M not surprised.
Oct 4, 18 8:54 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
"Yes, no, or maybe?"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 4, 18 8:54 PM
No, I meant illicit, as in, the premise of your question was illegitimate and warranted more than a yes, no, or maybe given it's false foundation and premise. If you are truly interested in what I think rather than making an ideologue point, you shouldn't be complaining.
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 5, 18 9:46 AM
I'm giving you the opportunity to create your own set of circumstances, including the caricature of a billion dollar donation to the federal coffers or, say, the cure for pancreatic cancer, in exchange for protection for deportation.

Your failure to fathom a situation in which an undocumented person should be protected from deportation makes me think you're a "no" but for some reason you can't bring yourself to actually say it. Is it because you just want to appear as if you're "open to ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 5, 18 10:04 AM
Ah, yes... there it is..."an undocumented [illegal] person should be protected from deportation"

"Should be"... a glimpse into the ideologue intent and attitude of entitlement, hence, the nature of the question.

By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 5, 18 12:38 PM
Yes Po, very good, that's the question I've been asking: whether there are any circumstances under which you think an undocumented person shouldn't be deported. Yes? No? Maybe? I'd settle for an "I don't know" because I don't think you've really thought about it very much.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 5, 18 12:47 PM
The fact that you can't accept my opinion for what it is tells the tale you are only interested in validating your own beliefs.

Kind of like, when you want my opinion you'll give it to me. The "I don't think you've really thought about it very much" routine is hysterical. LMAO! Certainly, no one could be as enlightened as you!?!
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 5, 18 1:03 PM
1 member liked this comment
What beliefs am I validating? What opinion did you share? If you've given it so much thought...
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 5, 18 1:37 PM
Who is being coy? You also appear to be under the misperception that you dictate the rules of discussion, in this case, not only applying emotion to an argument that demands facts but demanding one of only three options Yes, no, maybe. Tisk tisk. It's seen for what it is. I'll stick with option four and leave you here to wallow in your self indulgent ideology emotional baited questions.
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 5, 18 7:47 PM
1 member liked this comment
And option four, your opinion, was what, again? "I don't know"? There's nothing wrong with that.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 5, 18 9:20 PM
Some more food for thought. Happy Sunday.

TAKING FLIGHT

An Iraqi Family Sought Asylum in the U.S., Thinking the Worst Was Over. Then Their American Nightmare Began.

Ryan Devereaux
March 18 2018, 11:00 a.m.


NOTHING ABOUT THE Laredo Processing Center’s physical appearance immediately suggests it is run by a multimillion-dollar, for-profit prison corporation. Located just off the highway, about 5 miles from the Rio Grande, the drab one-story building, ...more
By Mr. Z (11376), North Sea on Sep 30, 18 7:55 AM
NO ONE is guaranteed asylum in the USA JuneZ. Is there a point to your post?
By bigfresh (4384), north sea on Sep 30, 18 3:15 PM
Yep.

You forget the privilege you've enjoyed just by being born in the United States. You won the PowerBall, as it were. Billions did not...

By Mr. Z (11376), North Sea on Oct 4, 18 7:35 PM
Of courser tinker supports illegals, where do they work?????????
By knitter (1725), Southampton on Sep 30, 18 6:54 PM
Southampton police do not enforce immigration law. If ICE request an administrative hold on a person, it means that the person was arrested and fingerprinted for violating a New York state criminal law. It is routine practice for law enforcement to turn over people after arrest to other agencies that also have criminal charges against that person. To only turn over "citizens" but not illegal immigrants to other law enforcement agencies would be utter stupidity, and probably unconstitutional. You ...more
By Spinny OHO (91), Speonk on Sep 30, 18 8:48 PM
If you google and read the following article it might explain a little about the girl you mentioned and some of the reasons for her unhappiness, including details on discrimination related work injuries. She did have a good job, earning $70,000, and paid taxes. Much of her unhappiness is the result of Title VII violations. There might even be a Go Fund Me page that Minerva Perez set up to cover her medical expenses in the event anyone here wishes to make a contribution.

New York Post
The ...more
By Dawn_O (45), Southampton on Oct 1, 18 6:13 AM
1 member liked this comment
GoFundMe? Ah, more free money from snowflakes riddled with White guilt. When will it end? Free college and drivers licenses aren’t enough?
By Moral Dolphin (49), Southampton on Oct 2, 18 3:20 AM
1 member liked this comment
Where in this article does it say anything about GoFundMe?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 2, 18 7:17 AM
Many people don't know this about me but I was a dreamer once. Yes, that's right. Just last night, actually. Now, I'm awake and must follow the law.
By even flow (842), East Hampton on Oct 2, 18 7:42 AM
1 member liked this comment
Raymond Herrera was a dreamer too, a dream turned nightmare for many.

“My name is Raymond Herrera, I am an American Carpenter and also an American General Contractor, out of work and out of business in America's booming construction industry.

As an American tradesman, 34 years experience as a carpenter, a licensed General Contractor in Arizona and California, both failed business ventures due to the lack of American tradesmen, not for the lack of work in America.

They ...more
By Dawn_O (45), Southampton on Oct 2, 18 8:23 AM
My life isn't as good as I hoped it would be -- my career isn't highly lucrative, I barely have any free time and I'm tired.

I prefer to blame others for my shortcomings rather than accept the results of my own actions.

By Aeshtron (320), Southampton on Oct 2, 18 9:33 AM
The lives of our partners, staff, and others alike were at one time better than we’d hoped, highly lucrative, free time for personal and family enjoyment, always energized, and never tired. Economic externalities imposed on business due to illegal immigration aren’t shortcomings and actions to compensate are limited.
Oct 2, 18 10:01 AM appended by Dawn_O
An example would be a recent public works project in East Hampton where the primary contractor subcontracted the work to a firm utilizing 21 undocumented workers, not paying mandated prevailing wages. This is not only wrong, it is illegal, and it is damaging to legally compliant businesses.
By Dawn_O (45), Southampton on Oct 2, 18 10:01 AM
Ironically, businesses are first in line of opposition to the mandated use of E-verify.
Oct 2, 18 10:53 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
The NYS Department of Labor accepts tips and investigates violations of Labor Law.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 2, 18 10:53 AM
It's actually no surprise a business would be in opposition of E-Verify , it comes down to the cost of labor. Ironic?
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 2, 18 9:38 PM
I was responding specifically to the complaint about "economic externalities imposed on business due to illegal immigration."

Obviously business benefits from the low cost of labor, so why the complaint?
Oct 3, 18 12:00 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Lol, more specifically: why is Dawn complaining from a business perspective when business benefits from cheap labor?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 3, 18 12:00 AM
Why the complaint? Um, because E-verify interferes with the low cost labor pool.
By Po Boy (4282), Water Mill on Oct 3, 18 9:22 AM
AP is reporting that it has located the ice that Brett Kavanaugh threw in the early 80s. They attempted to get a statement but it melted under the pressure.
By SlimeAlive (1180), Southampton on Oct 2, 18 11:18 AM
Abolishing ice - bad
Abolishing THROWING ice - good.
By SlimeAlive (1180), Southampton on Oct 2, 18 11:19 AM
Just remember that Perry Gershon also proposed to “stop the cooperation or communication between Ice and our local forces” during the Southampton Progressive Caucus.
It appears that many here don’t want this.
Vote Zeldin on Nov 6th.
By Sitfu (18), East Quogue on Oct 2, 18 9:45 PM
The gofundme comment was about the supposed page for Miranda Perez. Do something bad, get rewarded.
By Moral Dolphin (49), Southampton on Oct 3, 18 2:15 AM
Who is Miranda Perez? What bad thing did she do?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 3, 18 8:04 AM
It was just a matter of time that this was demanded.

Last time I was in Southampton there were crowds hanging around 7-11 and a hiring hall talk. So many it was hard to drive near there. The Village police were not to be found to arrest these people without proper id.

Its not a stretch to begin to bully the Town PD to have similar policies to ignore enforcing the law in the town. Slowly the town will revert to the policies that make NYC a great place to live.
By Baymen87 (128), Lugoff, SC on Oct 3, 18 8:19 AM
By the way those asking for the Town not to enforce Federal Law also includes legalizing drugs, kidnapping, carjacking, credit card theft, bank robbery, child porn and many others. Be careful what you wish for or you may get what you didn't want. On the other hand maybe they do want this too?
By Baymen87 (128), Lugoff, SC on Oct 3, 18 8:23 AM
All of those crimes are also New York State crimes, as opposed to immigration violations which are strictly federal offenses.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 3, 18 8:52 AM
Why would illegal immigrants be afraid of ICE? It amazes me how so-called community activists, aka socialists, want the police to ignore federal laws. Local police departments don't get to choose which laws they will or won't enforce. The left wingers have invaded the east end and ruined life as we knew it decades ago. The Hamptons used to be a nice place to grow up, now it is a place to throw up.
By Walt (285), Southampton on Oct 3, 18 2:23 PM
Why would illegal immigrants be afraid of ICE? It amazes me how so-called community activists, aka socialists, want the police to ignore federal laws. Local police departments don't get to choose which laws they will or won't enforce. The left wingers have invaded the east end and ruined life as we knew it decades ago. The Hamptons used to be a nice place to grow up, now it is a place to throw up.
By Walt (285), Southampton on Oct 3, 18 2:23 PM
2 members liked this comment
Um...local governments get to choose what local laws are all the time, see: marijuana in Colorado, California, and Maine.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 3, 18 2:31 PM
FBHBG,
Getting back to with my answer to your question about businesses benefiting from cheap labor.
No doubt they do. Take Asplundh for example. They employed thousands of illegal aliens, the bulk of their contracts being public works projects, with annual revenues tipping $4 billion. They were able to undercut and knock out their competition through illegal and unfair trade practices, monopolizing geographical markets in many instances. In 2017 they were hit up with a $95 million dollar ...more
By Dawn_O (45), Southampton on Oct 3, 18 6:22 PM
1 member liked this comment
I agree that corporate greed hurts wages for everyone, that's why I support accountability in the form of E-verify.

However, it's businesses of all sizes who oppose E-verify, so they're not being hurt; they're complicit.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (6687), HAMPTON BAYS on Oct 3, 18 6:27 PM
This has nothing to do with hate this is about the law and enforcing it.Stop the crap follow the law and if you break it pay the price like us stupid legals
By chief1 (2725), southampton on Oct 6, 18 9:01 AM
1 member liked this comment
Legitimize local enforcement and cooperation through a 287(g) agreement between DHS and Suffolk County. The Immigration and Nationality Act Section 287(g) grants DHS the authority to deputize state and local law enforcement to enforce federal immigration laws.
By Sitfu (18), East Quogue on Oct 7, 18 6:36 PM
8k run & 3 mile walk, Agawam Park, Southampton Rotary Club fundraiser