WELCOME GUEST  |  LOG IN
Lawn Doctor, Hamptons, Lawn Care, Mosquito Control, Tick Control. Lawn Maintenance
27east.com

Story - News

Jan 21, 2014 1:59 PMPublication: The East Hampton Press

New York State Plans To Cull Or Capture All Mute Swans By 2025

Jan 21, 2014 2:15 PM

The State Department of Environmental Conservation is calling for a culling to eliminate all mute swans on Long Island by 2025, according to a species management draft the department issued on January 16.

The proposed regulations targeting the animals—frequent visitors to local ponds, and features of the vistas at Town Pond in East Hampton Village and Lake Agawam in Southampton Village—stem from ongoing observations of the swans’ aggressive behavior, an increasing population statewide, and the swans’ effect on native species, said Lori Severino, a DEC spokesperson.

“It’s something that’s been looked at for quite some time,” she said. “Their population has been steadily increasing over the past couple of years, and they’re a threat to species and plants that thrive in New York State.”

The mute swans, a non-native species originally from Eurasia, are distributed in distinct, dense populations, such as Long Island, Westchester County and Lake Ontario, Ms. Severino said. The DEC says they were first imported to the United States for “ornamental purposes” in the late 1800s.

Part of the drafted regulation, which can be seen on the DEC’s website, calls for lethal control, including euthanizing or shooting the free-range mute swans. There also is the option of capturing and relocating the animals to “suitable facilities” where they can be kept in captivity. Ms. Severino said it will be up to the department which option to choose in specific cases. But the goal, according to the DEC plan, is “to eliminate free-ranging mute swans from New York by 2025.”

“It’s also important to note that part of the proposal is to allow property owners to work with the DEC to conduct control activities like having eggs removed from their property, having the birds sterilized, things like that, in order to control their growing population,” Ms. Severino added.

But according Larry Penny, nature columnist for The East Hampton Star and former director of natural resources for East Hampton Town, the mute swan population is far from on the rise in this area. “Their population is very stable,” he said. “If anything, it’s lower than it was in 1974.”

In a winter waterfowl survey conducted by South Fork Natural History Society of Bridgehampton on January 18, 226 mute swans were counted between the Shinnecock Canal and Amagansett. The DEC estimates 2,200 birds statewide.

While mute swans can deplete aquatic vegetation because their necks are long, allowing them to reach farther down into water, Mr. Penny said, the culling of this specific species doesn’t seem to add up. “Certain types of geese can do the same thing,” he said. “So it doesn’t really make sense to me.”

Despite the DEC’s list of the mute swans’ potential harm, the regulation draft is troublesome to those in local communities who, like Mr. Penny, enjoy the aesthetic swans provide and don’t find their presence to be an issue.

“People like to see the swans,” said Southampton Village Mayor Mark Epley. “The swan population, at least in Southampton Village, is very small. So unless there’s some giant piece of scientific evidence that justifies this, I’m not a supporter of it, and I don’t think the Village Board would be either.”

The regulations also bring morals into question, Mr. Penny said: Mute swans, unlike geese or ducks, don’t fly away when approached, making them a relatively easy target. “I’m not against hunting, but this feels very ... behind the times,” he said. “We’re in a new millennium, and we should be treating wildlife better than this. It’s just barbaric.”

The DEC is accepting comments and suggestions on its drafted regulations through February 21 via email, at fwwildlf@gw.dec.state.ny.us, or in writing to its office in Albany.

You've read 1 of 7 free articles this month.

Already a subscriber? Sign in

What next are we going to start slaughtering our wildlife like the Japanese? Absolutely not in favor of this!
By factfindr (5), southampton on Jan 23, 14 8:37 AM
1 member liked this comment
Aw come on, the state DEC says it's OK! They also signed off on the massive steel bulkheading last winter in Southampton Village.

Trust your government . . .

Not
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 23, 14 8:42 AM
1 member liked this comment
Guess they can't solve the DEER problem so are going after easier targets?
By M. O'Connor (147), Southampton on Jan 23, 14 8:55 AM
2 members liked this comment
This is very upsetting. Leave the swans alone!!!!!!!!
By Mrs.Sea (268), Sag Harbor on Jan 23, 14 9:46 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By joe hampton (3382), south hampton on Jan 23, 14 9:55 AM
1 member liked this comment
buh bye comment.

That Florida air stirring up your blood, joe hampton?
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 23, 14 10:28 AM
1 member liked this comment
Well let me ask you one question
Is your money that good?
Oh will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could?

I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul


Bob Dylan - Masters Of War
By Mr. Z (11480), North Sea on Jan 23, 14 1:59 PM
Why I was being serious... From my ongoing observations of the illegals and their behavior, They also seem to be increasing in population statewide, and nation wide and having an effect on native species, “It’s is also something that’s been looked at for quite some time,Their population has been steadily increasing over the past couple of years, and some would say they also are a threat to jobs and our way of life... Just making an observation not even taking a position... but ...more
Jan 23, 14 4:29 PM appended by joe hampton
PBR I am merely stating that abused any system will eventually fail. Why are we looking at an invasion of swans instead of our economic, health care and transportation infrastructure, I am not against antibody's culture till it threatens mine.The key to what I said was legal Vs Illegal. My original post was in jest but there is truth to the argument
By joe hampton (3382), south hampton on Jan 23, 14 4:29 PM
"Why" ?

You must be joking joe.

Your reference to Mexicans was about as distasteful as they come. [I would post a quote but it would be deleted.]

Maybe you are not aware of the image you project with the specific words you choose? Do you think we are this naive?
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 23, 14 6:08 PM
2 members liked this comment
My how times have changed. When I was a kid injured swans were rescued and whenever dead swans were found, a search for the perpetrators would ensue. Now, those same people are looking to hire people to kill them. Now, the contract to cull the deer is netting some outfit $800,000. Is there good money in the systematic killing of swans too?
Jan 23, 14 10:03 AM appended by KevinLuss
NY Times reported that 5 east end towns have budgeted $500,000 and have begun asking others to contribute through 2014. The number I quoted has been bandied about. $500,000-$800,000 to kill deer is a lot of moolah when you could just pay my mother in law to drive up and down noyac road until they were all gone...
By KevinLuss (356), SH on Jan 23, 14 10:03 AM
"Now, the contract to cull the deer is netting some outfit $800,000."

Care to inform us where that information came from?
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 23, 14 10:35 AM
1 member liked this comment
The quote from the Times is: "Mr. Gergela said farmers were suffering extensive crop damage, so he decided to use $200,000 in state money to underwrite sharpshooters for eastern Long Island. To reach a total budget of about $500,000, he invited five eastern towns and Brookhaven, as well as some 10 villages, to sign on and 'put skin in the game.'"

So actually the Towns are contributing UP TO $300,000 for a total of $500,000. Towns are being asked to contribute $25k and villages $15k. Brookhaven ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 23, 14 11:44 AM
You know, I may stand as corrected. The outfit is the Department of Agriculture who is getting a large amount of taxpayer funds to kill swans and assorted fauna. I would not have imagined that the Department of Agriculture, the same people in charge of corn had a program to certify and train sharpshooters. But alas, they apparently do. According to its website the USDA "aims to meet the needs of farmers and ranchers, promote agricultural trade and production, work to assure food safety, protect ...more
Jan 23, 14 1:54 PM appended by KevinLuss
Hey take it easy Nature..for your own safety. The USDA and other ''outfits'' are hiring sharp shooters to take out anything that appears aggressive and/or annoying....hahaha.
By KevinLuss (356), SH on Jan 23, 14 1:54 PM
1 member liked this comment
"The outfit is the Department of Agriculture who is getting a large amount of taxpayer funds to kill swans and assorted fauna."

You have confounded the deer cull with the swan cull. The Deer cull has been proposed by the Farm Bureau and will utilize USDA sharpshooters (and must get approval of NYSDEC).

The Swan cull (or elimination) is plan which has been put forth by the NYSDEC for public input. It has absolutely nothing to do with the USDA, farms or farming.

Deer ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 23, 14 2:23 PM
KevinLuss is 100% accurate. Feel free to go to Hunters For Deer's website and click on USDA DEER KILL PLAN link. The proposed budget given to Joe Gergela was $505,490.00 to kill deer in rural and suburban areas ++++++ the $300,000 need to butcher the meat and give it to Island Harvest for the hungry. What a great service Island Harvest is providing, too bad they degrade people more by only giving them sleeves of chop meat and not steaks, which could be accomplished burring butchering process ...more
By MichaelHunter (71), East Quogue, New York on Jan 23, 14 3:56 PM
Get my facts straight?

Kevin Luss said the budget is $800,000. NY Times has reported "up to $500,000" and frankly, all towns/villages have not passed resolutions so the total us unknown.

Kevin Luss said that "some outfit" will recieve the $800,000. The only "outfits" involved are government offices. Even if what you state is true ($500,000 for the killing, $300,000 for butchering) no one "outfit" is getting $800,000

Kevin Luss stated that the USDA will be killing ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 23, 14 4:09 PM
1 member liked this comment
Can we get a DEC permit to cull the summer people? They are kind of aggressive too and not native to the area.
By G (336), Southampton on Jan 23, 14 11:19 AM
We are not all the same. The ones that own their house for decades actually have respect for full timers and the environment. Its the noobs that you must be referring to.
By Summer Resident (242), Southampton N.Y. on Jan 24, 14 10:53 AM
From what I see, looking at the water every day, that "aggressive behavior" on the part of the mute swans is all directed at the poop machines known as Canada geese. I'm all for the swans on this one. Though they don't seem to be reducing the goose population, they nest near me and help keep the diarrhetic geese away from my yard. Go, Mutes!
By Turkey Bridge (1955), Quiogue on Jan 23, 14 11:37 AM
1 member liked this comment
There is plenty of "aggressive" behavior aimed at other species of waterfowl. Wait until spring and look around at ducks with their young and watch the swans. They wreak havoc on wood ducks and mallards.

For all of those "against" the reduction of Swans, it means you are "for" the continued harrassment of native species of wildlife, degredation of water quality (through defication) increases in nitrogen inputs in our waterways (again through defication) degredation in water clarity ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 23, 14 11:58 AM
According to DEC spokeswoman, the goal of the DEC plan, is “to eliminate free-ranging mute swans from New York by 2025.” Get it? Eliminate. Only game birds allowed to live, the kind that are afraid of hunters, have a price on their head & bring in money from having a season on them. There's no room for wildlife that cant be hunted.
By M Leybra (1), Pomona on Jul 4, 18 5:11 PM
Reduction and eradication are two different things.
By M. O'Connor (147), Southampton on Jan 23, 14 12:20 PM
1 member liked this comment
I don't believe it to be possible to completely eradicate them which is why I chose to say 'severe reduction'. Unless Swans are "eradicated" from the Northeast, it will be impossible to prevent them from "migrating" here
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 23, 14 12:31 PM
Call in the NSA, CIA, and all military branches to kill every living mute swan on Earth!

That'll mute 'em . . .

You can't make this stuff up!
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 23, 14 12:53 PM
So, in 2026, the only Mute Swans will be in zoos?

Don't much see them on Wildwood Lake anymore, but they'all over the Peconic River and lower Peconic Bay. Never considered them any sort of problem.
By Frank Wheeler (1816), Northampton on Jan 23, 14 3:24 PM
2 members liked this comment
They are beautiful, what is wrong with these people, i am sick of these nuts with there only native and indigenous garbage. if they are here the ecosystem will adjust you cannot micro manage everything. leave them be!
By Erin 27 E (1225), southampton on Jan 23, 14 6:59 PM
2 members liked this comment
Let's hope not:

"the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation reported that three pairs of captive mute swans killed at least 50 ducks and geese in a zoo."
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 24, 14 9:26 AM
Maybe they didn't like being cooped up in a zoo?

Why did the zoo house the swan inmates with the general population, and permit this duck-o-cide and goose-o-cide?
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 24, 14 3:40 PM
If swans produced honey, I bet they would be safe. I have been stung by many bees, and it sure does hurt. ouch.
By MichaelHunter (71), East Quogue, New York on Jan 23, 14 3:59 PM
Bess are absolutely crucial to the health of native plants, wildflowers and most importantly crops. Bees are native and do not outcompete native species of insect.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 23, 14 4:10 PM
1 member liked this comment
So let me get this straight. Originally brought here for "ornamental purposes" in the late 1800's, there are now 226 mute swans between Shinneock Canal and Amagansett and an estimated 2,200 statewide. Doesn't sound like a very successful "invasion" to me.
By kjmraven (19), East Quogue on Jan 23, 14 4:07 PM
2 members liked this comment
Not as successful as the one from South of the border, I wonder if these birds also get there drivers licenses from North Carolina
By They call me (2731), southampton on Jan 23, 14 4:34 PM
As a first step, why not allow hunting of the mute swans, as in other states? With proper management could not the numbers be reduced so that further steps could be taken after further analysis?

Why the need to "nuke" the swans (and deer)?

Seems a little heavy-handed doesn't it?
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 23, 14 6:27 PM
1 member liked this comment
Oh for crying out load!
By rraynor (4), Westhampton on Jan 23, 14 7:27 PM
The plan to kill these sublimely beautiful creatures whose contemplation so elevates the spirits of all who see them is vile beyond description. Watching their seasonal growth from grey, puffball cygnets to dazzling white mature swans in the company of their families is a glory of the Hamptons.

The DEC governors are rational lunatics who cannot see the madness in their reason. They must be stopped.
By highhatsize (4116), East Quogue on Jan 23, 14 7:42 PM
Yea - it really "elevates my spirits" when I see these birds chasing away wood ducks and attacking their young. My spirit is so elevated when I see them decimate eel grass beds, thus destroying nursery grounds for flounder, seabass, puffins, seahorses, and bay scallops.

If DEC governors are "rational lunatics" then so are those in charge of similar programs throughout the country.

Tell me what the difference between Mute Swans and Florida Pythons is? Is it that Mute Swans ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 23, 14 7:55 PM
If you don't know the different between a swam and a python, perhaps you want to change your name to something other than ''Nature''.
By KevinLuss (356), SH on Jan 24, 14 7:03 AM
Ah, a Swami no more . . .

Just a snake in the 'glades?

[joke, Nature . . . ]
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 24, 14 8:20 AM
Kevin - please enlighten me to what the ecological differences are between invasive pythons in the florida everglades and invasive mute swans in NY.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 24, 14 9:15 AM
Look, for now you are not allowed to kill swans no matter how badly you would love to shoot each and every one of them ..you know, because of the pond grass. That's all that matters.

Jan 24, 14 12:29 PM appended by KevinLuss
I sure you meant no disrespect by calling me ignorant but I'm not surprised at all that a person who feels the need to micro-manage Mother Nature thinks I'm ignorant.
By KevinLuss (356), SH on Jan 24, 14 12:29 PM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 24, 14 12:55 PM
Kevin, have you ever swatted a fly or mosquito which was bothering you?
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 24, 14 2:28 PM
We aren't micro-managing mother nature. The problem is we circumvented mother nature by introducing mute swans to an area that they had not managed to migrate to on their on. When non-native species are introduced to areas outside of their natural range, ecological problems abound and I think it is our (humans) responsibilty to correct that problem when possible.

If Swans naturally expanded their range, we would be having a much different conversation.

Me informing you that ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 24, 14 3:52 PM
Moreover, it was forbidden in England (and here) to hunt and eat the swans. The monarch WAS permitted to do so; therefore the swan population did not grow out of control.
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 24, 14 4:05 PM
What what!
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 24, 14 4:54 PM
Yes. On this very website.
Jan 25, 14 5:39 PM appended by KevinLuss
In response to: Kevin, have you ever swatted a fly or mosquito which was bothering you? By PBR (3633), Southampton on Jan 24, 14 2:28 PM
By KevinLuss (356), SH on Jan 25, 14 5:39 PM
Seriously Kevin, swatting aside logical questions does not fly really, except to demonstrate evasiveness . . .

Do you recognize the various harms done by the mute swans?

Historically swans have been hunted, which is permitted in other states. Why not here?
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 26, 14 3:50 AM
PS Kevin, same questions asked of highhatsize below, about your use of animal-derived food and products, to which the reply was:

"I am an ovo-lacto vegetarian and use no products derived from animal slaughter unless there is no substitute available and no "work-around."

Also true for you?
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 26, 14 3:54 AM
This might blow your mind, but I eat cheeseburgers and eggs and still think anyone who wants to kill swans are idiots. I am finished with helping you people figure out your own position on this or humoring you into thinking you can change mine.
Jan 26, 14 5:38 AM appended by KevinLuss
and no, I do not recognize one single example of mute swans doing damage. nature always has a give and take...fairness was not created to exist in nature.
By KevinLuss (356), SH on Jan 26, 14 5:38 AM
Your post is internally inconsistent, and thus "not logical" [so sayeth Mister Spock]. It deserveth not a reply . . .

Since one is finished, Kevin, helping "you people," perhaps one might consider replacing one's "improving others' lives" gun sight with a mirror?

[It being church day, that is, per your "church triumphant" comment the other day]
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 26, 14 10:48 AM
I'm going to sleep very well tonight knowing you are judging me negatively.
Jan 26, 14 12:22 PM appended by KevinLuss
and while we are on the topic of consistency or lack thereof, I would politely like to point out - in your response to my post you suggested it wasn't worthy of a response. Thanks for playing and please sign the petition that has been started in an effort to get Cuomo to change his mind about killing innocent swans.
By KevinLuss (356), SH on Jan 26, 14 12:22 PM
dream on . . .
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 26, 14 1:11 PM
I'm not exactly sure where you are going with the snarky and disrespectful comment regarding my church from the other day....but Hope Shields is in my church. The same church that I drove to yesterday morning right after I posted that comment at 5:38am, to feed a hot breakfast to guests of Maureen's Haven who are homeless Perhaps you can find something more positive to do with your time then logging 24 comments that don't amount to a single cognizant point.
By KevinLuss (356), SH on Jan 27, 14 7:07 AM
Thank you.

Mighty Christian of you . . .
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 27, 14 9:29 AM
From the Michigan DNR website:

THREAT TO HUMANS

Mute swans are large, conspicuous birds and have little fear of humans. They are easily observed by the public and offer a chance for people to come in close contact with wildlife. Each year, the DNR gets reports of mute swan attacks on people in watercraft and on shore. These situations all pose potentially dangerous results, and as the mute swan population grows, so do the conflicts.

Nesting swans can be very aggressive ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 23, 14 7:59 PM
to Nature:

Quote:

"Let's take emotions out of the equation for a minute, can we?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why is it that conservatives always think that if emotions are proscribed, rationality is improved? What cold, stony (and, paradoxically, profoundly irrational) consciousnesses they must have so to believe.

To answer your question though, the lives of Burmese pythons, white-tailed deer ...more
By highhatsize (4116), East Quogue on Jan 24, 14 10:33 AM
So now I'm a conservative? When you bring emotions into an argument, and wax and wane about the "beauty" of a creature (an aesthetic opinion that is essentially arbitary) it glosses over facts and science, thus one cannot have a rational conversation about the core issue.

The DEC hasn't actually said they will kill all the swans (but you choose to hang your very high hat on that claim as if it were true). They have released a DRAFT management plan, where ONE option is culling all swan. ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 24, 14 10:41 AM
Nature, do you know how swan meat and eggs taste?
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 24, 14 10:53 AM
No?
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 24, 14 11:06 AM
Not sure why you have a question mark there, it was a serious question. In other states swans are hunted.
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 24, 14 11:36 AM
From various online sources, it appears that swan meat tastes fine, but may be a bit gamey. The reticence to eat swans appears to have its origins in Great Britain where swans were considered the property of the monarch, and consumption by ordinary citizens was considered treason. Apparently the eggs taste good too.

Wikipedia has a good write-up, and notes that "in 2005 the United States Department of the Interior officially declared them a non-native, unprotected species."
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 24, 14 2:26 PM
to Nature:

Quote:

"When you bring emotions into an argument, and wax and wane about the 'beauty' of a creature (an aesthetic opinion that is essentially arbitary) it glosses over facts and science, thus one cannot have a rational conversation about the core issue."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So the incompassionate would argue. In reality, it is only within the hard sciences that emotions are irrelevant. ...more
By highhatsize (4116), East Quogue on Jan 24, 14 12:12 PM
hat, one would assume therefore that you have never swatted a fly or a mosquito?
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 24, 14 12:21 PM
1 member liked this comment
So I'll expect to read those same written comments that you will submit to the DEC. Otherwise your heart-string-tugging emotional bloviating is useless on this board.

It's amusing to me that your argument for not culling deer is that there is no true evidence that the alleged harms/damages actually occur.

When it comes to removing mute swans, you cannot discount the fact that they are harmful to the environment and other native species, but you say that we shouldn't kill them ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 24, 14 12:46 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By llimretaw (118), watermill on Jan 24, 14 4:48 PM
to Nature:

I am opposed to the killing of swans and deer (and Burmese pythons) because they are sentient animals, not because they are pretty. (I thought I covered that point in my ultimate post.) The ONLY circumstances under which killing is permissible is when other species are causing proven, massive harm. Even then, if non-lethal means are available for alleviating that harm, they should always be employed.

There is no proof that swans are causing significant damage despite ...more
By highhatsize (4116), East Quogue on Jan 25, 14 12:33 AM
2 members liked this comment
So a personal subjective perception of "harm" is the key?

Are other human beings (assuming you place yourself in this category) each entitled to have his or her own personal perception of "harm" done by the swans?

Thank you.
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 25, 14 1:57 AM
PS hat, do you eat animal protein of any kind (speaking broadly -- including meat, fish, eggs, cheese, etc.)? I'm bacon you to 'fess up!
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 25, 14 2:31 AM
PS2 does one wear leather clothing items such as shoes, hats, gloves, belts, bolo ties, chaps, facial masks, baseball gloves, and so forth? Or use leather restraints of any kind (or reins, whips, etc.)?

Just how human is one?
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 25, 14 2:36 AM
More gobbledygook in an attempt to avert the main questions posed. I guess you prefer to tout your philosophical ways here instead of putting them in writing to the DEC.

It is so ironic that you are putting yourself on the pedestal of holistic greatness with respect to the wellbeing of an invasive species because the harm that I have claimed is "anecdotal" and because swans aren't conscious beings (or something like that) but with respect to the Jay Sears case you think he shouldn't be ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 25, 14 9:18 AM
So high hat maybe I had some of what you stand for wrong, based on what you said I assume you no longer support abortion ?

I really need an answer on this one so please don't pretend you did not see it

We are all watching you answer very carefully
By 27dan (2752), Southampton on Jan 25, 14 12:49 PM
to Nature:

I will leave it to readers to judge whether my arguments are "gobbledygook" or whether that conclusion is but a reflection of your own limitations.

With regard to this, it should be noted that while I have repeatedly cited relevant authority (including scientific opinions) to authenticate my viewpoints, your own procedure is to shotgun supporting references of varying degrees of relevancy and accessibility, and, when their deficiencies are pointed out, to claim YOURSELF, ...more
By highhatsize (4116), East Quogue on Jan 25, 14 12:17 PM
Makes sense . . .

Have a good weekend.
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 25, 14 12:21 PM
Mosquitoes, however, be damned.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 26, 14 10:17 AM
Of course, they HARMED the hat!

SWAT !
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 26, 14 10:52 AM
Interesting question Dan, why would liberals want to save the swans but are OK with killing babies in utero?
By bigfresh (4492), north sea on Jan 26, 14 8:50 AM
2 members liked this comment
wow sure is a good qestion
By Erin 27 E (1225), southampton on Jan 26, 14 7:32 PM
to 27dan & bigfresh:

Absent theological concerns, it would seem obvious that the point at which a fetus becomes a baby is the moment at which it achieves sentience. Until then, it is an insensate organ which can be excised electively. However, the law currently sets "viability" as the criterion for personhood, possibly because fetal cognitive activity can only be grossly measured. Since the correlation between viability and sentience is speculative, at best, reliance on this criterion ...more
By highhatsize (4116), East Quogue on Jan 26, 14 10:20 AM
1 member liked this comment
So based on your thoughts above - you would thus support the addling/oiling of swan eggs on the nest (which of course is what I have suggested be done) since they aren't "sentient" beings?
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 26, 14 10:33 AM
Jeez, do you have to egg him on?

Let the abortion debate free-for-all begin!

You can't make this stuff up . . .
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 26, 14 10:53 AM
Just re listen to how foolish you sound
By 27dan (2752), Southampton on Jan 26, 14 7:10 PM
"until then, it is an insensate organ which can be excised electively"

ya sure and insensate organ that is capable of screaming out in horror and pain and fear

What a cold monstrous statement
By Erin 27 E (1225), southampton on Jan 26, 14 7:30 PM
To HHS - feel free to educate yourself (but I'm sure you will dismiss all of my suggestions and claim they aren't "scientific opinions" even though they of course are crafted by government scientists). I've yet to see you post any relevant information disputing the harm caused by mute swans (you yourself have admitted they are harmful) and any evidence that a management plan to rid the island of mute swans is appropriate (note I didn't say we should kill them all).

Google the following ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 26, 14 10:31 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By dnice (2345), Hampton Bays on Jan 26, 14 12:48 PM
Two different people IMO.
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 27, 14 6:47 PM
How do you know that? Looked around, cant find anything on it.
By But I'm a blank! (1283), Hampton Bays on Jan 26, 14 1:26 PM
to Nature:

Having read the NYS DEC Mute Swan Management Plan and your cited references, I find nothing therein persuasive to the proposal that mute swans should be eliminated. Moreover, there is no evidence whatsoever that a slaughter is necessary.

Furthermore, the question of propriety of the presence of the swans is a value judgment. Should not the fact that this species has brought delight to so many factor into the question of whether we should continue to allow it to live ...more
By highhatsize (4116), East Quogue on Jan 26, 14 6:50 PM
I am not trying to goat you Hat Head, But I must say...You do look pretty foolish trying to defend you position... Trying to cling to your statement without sounding ridiculously hypocritical.

I would give that round to Dan.

By joe hampton (3382), south hampton on Jan 26, 14 7:23 PM
2 members liked this comment
High Hat(e) says: However, the idea that our wild mute swan population should be extirpated is as appalling as it is ridiculous.

So, it's "as appalling as it is ridiculous" for scientists to propose to reduce or eliminate (over time) a population of a non-native waterfowl species that has been shown and scientifically proven to have negative impacts on native species of birds and impact water quality, quantity and populations of submerged aquatic vegetation, but when it comes to unborn ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 26, 14 7:59 PM
3 members liked this comment
to joe hampton:

On the contrary, joe, I oppose the killing of sentient life without regard to its being human or animal. Thus, for instance, while I have said that it would be morally acceptable to addle swan eggs, that would only apply to swan eggs in which the fetuses are insentient, just as abortions are only morally acceptable if the human fetuses are insentient.

Please point out the hypocrisy in my response.

to Nature:

Just so. Vide "to joe hampton:" ...more
By highhatsize (4116), East Quogue on Jan 27, 14 12:29 AM
just so everyone understands your position at what month do you concede a fetus achieves a sentient status
By Erin 27 E (1225), southampton on Jan 28, 14 10:14 PM
.
.
.
.
.
.

Down The Rabbit's hole we go . . .

.
.
.
.
.
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 27, 14 7:22 AM
1 member liked this comment
I contend the reason we slip down your rabbit hole so easily is your position on abortion, is at this point in history so intrinsically fraudulent,

I contend you know in your heart it is murder.. but your are unwilling to let go of your position having invested so much energy into defending the indefensible.

I compare it to the rights position on homosexuality.
By joe hampton (3382), south hampton on Jan 27, 14 10:03 AM
Oh sorry, I did not mean to offend PBZ@home , It was High & Mighty Hat Size that sounded so dam hypocritical we could not help but point it out,

But somehow in your Bizzaroworld you cant see forest trough the trees
By 27dan (2752), Southampton on Jan 27, 14 4:14 PM
to 27dan:

Quote:

"It was High & Mighty Hat Size that sounded so dam hypocritical we could not help but point it out,"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I invite you, as I did joe hampton, to point out my "hypocrisy".

(Don't be anxious, I don't expect a reply from you either.)

Thank goodness that we live in a country wherein sectarian beliefs are prevented from dictating public policy.
By highhatsize (4116), East Quogue on Jan 27, 14 6:59 PM
Even if that policy is the most foul murderous act on a Innocent life imaginable...

Phil cheerfully reminds us "law" ( for the time being ) allows this heinous act of infanticide...

but does it make it any less disgraceful ... You said on the topic of killing birds

"rational lunatics who cannot see the madness in their reason. They must be stopped"

Well, on this we can agree for sure....
By joe hampton (3382), south hampton on Jan 27, 14 10:01 PM
1 member liked this comment
Just pointing out the hypocrisy of the left in general and our own Champion of murder in utero in particular. Killing swans " they must be stopped" but killing the most innocent among us is a 'non issue" that's disgusting.
By bigfresh (4492), north sea on Jan 28, 14 7:39 AM
1 member liked this comment
snagged by the troll?

Self-restraint is difficult isn't it?

Article is still only about swans . . .
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 28, 14 9:50 AM
8 weeks.
By Mr. Z (11480), North Sea on Jan 28, 14 11:28 PM
to bigfresh:

Your accusation is but another example of the extreme Right-Wing resorting to groundless name-calling in its assertion of a rationally indefensible belief, in this case one dictated by sectarian dogma.

Why is it that Believers can agree that insentient (i.e. brain dead) adults have LOST their personhood but not that insentient fetuses have yet to ACHIEVE it? Hypocrisy?

By contrast, my criterion for determining personhood is consistent, be it a swan's or a ...more
By highhatsize (4116), East Quogue on Jan 28, 14 11:12 AM
Speaking of contrast...

"Egg addling can be employed to REDUCE the population should a CRITICAL need be proven."

But abortion has no "critical need [of proof]" Interesting. Here, let me get you a bigger shovel high hat! I----D
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 28, 14 11:41 AM
to Nature:

Heigh-ho!

Do the disastrous results of unplanned pregnancies on women, the unborn, and society, really need to be enumerated?

I suspect that your diffident attitude towards the "critical need" for an abortion is but another manifestation of your emotional malformation, in this case your inability to empathize with those not of your sex. Rather than dismissing that need, would a more compassionate approach not be to allow pregnant women to make their own decisions ...more
By highhatsize (4116), East Quogue on Jan 28, 14 12:30 PM
Funny how I never made a statement on wether I am for or against a woman's choice.

I just find it "contrasting" that you think that scientists need to prove (to you) beyond a reasonable doubt that there is a "critical" need for addling of eggs but a woman is free to make a choice without proving anything to anyone (noting of course the same level of "personhood" for swan eggs and unborn humans).
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 28, 14 1:05 PM
1 member liked this comment
Maybe if baby's had feathers ??? I don't now what the hell he is talking about anymore either
By joe hampton (3382), south hampton on Jan 28, 14 4:43 PM
High hat[e]'s words, not mine!! My point is that HHS believes a scientific and "critical burden of proof" need be presented for egg addling which he equates to abortion. He doesn't believe abortion requires a scientific and "critical burden of proof" ergo he implies that the life of a swan egg has more value than the life of an unborn human.

Again, these are his words. I'm steering clear of offering my opinion on it because my opinion is not relevant to the conversation.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 28, 14 7:00 PM
Where's that phil? Are you referring to this?

"I just find it "contrasting" that you think that scientists need to prove (to you) beyond a reasonable doubt that there is a "critical" need for addling of eggs but a woman is free to make a choice without proving anything to anyone (noting of course the same level of "personhood" for swan eggs and unborn humans)."

If so, you're skipping of the phrase "that YOU think" (implying that it is HHS contrasting views on the subject matter). ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 28, 14 7:28 PM
Nature, don't you know by now that it is a trap to get into any discussions with him.
By dnice (2345), Hampton Bays on Jan 28, 14 7:47 PM
Dnice - I should but I stay away from all the politkal boards so I'm not used to it...

And Phil - if you payed an ounce of attention to anything I've ever written (or if you knew anything about me) my position would be clear. There's no reason for me to state my position - it's irrelevant. I can tell you that I do not equate swan eggs to unborn humans but that should be obvious.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 28, 14 7:56 PM
Yes I for do believe a woman needs to prove she needs an abortion. Because I am defending the rights of the child something you and HHS don't seem to have any connection to.
By They call me (2731), southampton on Jan 28, 14 9:54 PM
1 member liked this comment
HHS is not the only one in denial these days, Tonights SOTU should be hilarious,

All day today our dishonest media has blamed obama's dysfunction on everything but his failed policies, they've been focusing only on symptoms, as though symptoms are the disease. No one in media wants to admit if voters had his back, he could get past a divided Cong. or reveal why his poll numbers are tanking,

In denial like the progressive bunch in here
By They call me (2731), southampton on Jan 28, 14 5:12 PM
.
.
.
.
F
R
E
E

F
A
L
L
I
N
G
.
.
.
.
.
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 28, 14 6:54 PM
1 member liked this comment
there is no such thing as a war on women, sounds so foolish,

it is something that is said when losing an argument.

like pulling out the imaginary race card or talking about disproportionate wealth or global warming,

give it up already, no one is buying into your scare tactics anymore unless they are also profiting from the script.

like britney's new song says you gotta work b**ch
By Erin 27 E (1225), southampton on Jan 28, 14 10:05 PM
"According to the 2012 U.S. Census, women earn just 77 cents for every dollar earned by men — and that gap hasn't closed since 2007. And it's not just because women are predominantly located in lower-paying careers. Men have greater starting salaries across the board, regardless of industry, which also tends to debunk the myth that women are paid less because they take more time off for family-related issues."
By Mr. Z (11480), North Sea on Jan 29, 14 5:04 AM
FYI:

1. New income generated since 2009 that has gone to the top 1 percent: 95 percent

2. Financial wealth controlled by the bottom 60 percent of all Americans: 2.3 percent

3. Record combined wealth of the top 400 richest Americans: $2,000,000,000,000

4. Real decline in median middle-class incomes since 1999: $5,000

5. Percentage of Hispanic and African-American children living in poverty, respectively: 33.8 percent; 36.7 percent

6. Amount that ...more
By Mr. Z (11480), North Sea on Jan 29, 14 6:59 AM
mr z the story is about swans
By Erin 27 E (1225), southampton on Jan 29, 14 9:33 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Erin 27 E (1225), southampton on Jan 29, 14 4:43 PM
to Nature:

Quote:

“I just find it 'contrasting' that you think that scientists need to prove (to you) beyond a reasonable doubt that there is a 'critical' need for addling of eggs but a woman is free to make a choice without proving anything to anyone … “
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why does that puzzle you? Before the third trimester, whether a pregnant woman chooses to abort is no one's business ...more
By highhatsize (4116), East Quogue on Jan 29, 14 12:25 AM
'YEAR OF ACTION'
Jan 29, 14 1:40 AM appended by They call me
Obama took control of the "Press" and Now he thinks that: The Pen is Mightier than the Congress and We the People
By They call me (2731), southampton on Jan 29, 14 1:40 AM
Executive Order Tally by President:


George Washington Total 8

John Adams Total 1

Thomas Jefferson Total 4

James Madison Total 1

James Monroe Total 1

John Quincy Adams Total 3

Andrew Jackson Total 2

Martin van Buren Total 10

William Henry Harrison Total 0

John Tyler Total 17

James K. Polk Total 18

Zachary Taylor Total 5

Millard Fillmore Total ...more
By Mr. Z (11480), North Sea on Jan 29, 14 5:22 AM
.
.
.
.
.
.

Help!

.
.
.

Z

has

fallen

down

The

Rabbit

Hole

too!
.
.
.
.
.
.
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 29, 14 6:01 AM
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.

~ Martin Luther King, Jr.
Jan 29, 14 6:29 AM appended by Mr. Z
Don't you know that silence supports the accuser's charge? ~ Sophocles
By Mr. Z (11480), North Sea on Jan 29, 14 6:29 AM
Could it be that silence in the face of off-topic comments is actually constructive "participation," and that the perception of some kind of noble participation by posting more off-topic comments actually detracts?

Z though of the day, perhaps . . .
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 29, 14 6:59 AM
thought
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 29, 14 7:00 AM
If silence was not mistaken for compliance/agreement by default, I'd see my way to that argument.

As it stands, informed people should not stand idly by while the ignorant spew loads of crap.
By Mr. Z (11480), North Sea on Jan 29, 14 7:19 AM
Your paradigm . . .

and one you can change . . .

by not choosing to being led around by the nose . . .

by a leash which you have inserted!

If gibberish it be "out there" just let it be?
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 29, 14 7:46 AM
Resistance causes persistence . . .
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 29, 14 7:46 AM
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,

The courage to change the things I can,

And wisdom to know the difference?
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 29, 14 7:48 AM
Carpe Ziem
By joe hampton (3382), south hampton on Jan 29, 14 9:38 AM
Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph.

~ Haile Selassie
By Mr. Z (11480), North Sea on Jan 29, 14 10:28 PM
1 member liked this comment
It's better to be silent and thought a fool then to open one's mouth and remove all doubt!!! Words for you Z@home
By bigfresh (4492), north sea on Jan 29, 14 10:26 AM
1 member liked this comment
Matter o' fact.
By Mr. Z (11480), North Sea on Jan 29, 14 10:26 PM
Of all the troubling aspects of the obama adminastration, none is more dangerous than the president's persistent pattern of lawlessness, his willingness to disregard the written law and instead enforce his own policies via executive fiat. On Monday, obama acted unilaterally to raise the minimum wage paid by federal contracts, the first of many executive actions the White House promised would be a theme of his State of the Union address Tuesday night.

Jan 29, 14 4:22 PM appended by Undocumented Democrat
The president's taste for unilateral action to circumvent Congress should concern every citizen, regardless of party or ideology. The great 18th-century political philosopher Montesquieu observed: "There can be no liberty where the legislative and executive powers are united in the same person, or body of magistrates." America's founding fathers took this warning to heart, and we should too. At a White House reception for U.S. mayors, Jan. 23. Reuters rule of law doesn't simply mean that society has laws; dictatorships are often characterized by an abundance of laws. Rather, rule of law means that we are a nation ruled by laws, not men. That no oneand especially not the president is above the law. For that reason, the U.S. Constitution imposes on every president the express duty to "take care that the laws be faithfully executed."
By Undocumented Democrat (1982), southampton on Jan 29, 14 4:22 PM
1 member liked this comment
Please tell me you're not this stupid.

Executive Orders have checks and balances in front of them to prevent a President from acting like a "dictator". They can be struck down by the courts, and are a guaranteed part of the powers of the executive branch granted BY the Constitution.

Stop being the propagandists' puppeteered parrot. You sound more like a "tin plated dictator with delusions of grandeur" than the White House at this point.
Jan 30, 14 7:30 AM appended by Mr. Z
And, it is the nearly complete incompetence and CORRUPTION of the legislative branch which has led to such a state. Being "wealthy" is fine, but don't try to buy OUR democracy with your dollars. A dollar has more power than the vote of a person in this Republic, and THAT is a death knell for democracy, and creates Oligarchy.
By Mr. Z (11480), North Sea on Jan 30, 14 7:30 AM
UD, He told you it will be a 'YEAR OF ACTION'

He has grow tired of trying to play by the rules and now thinks the pen is

Mightier than the Congress and We the People
Jan 29, 14 4:29 PM appended by They call me
What he finds inconvenient and calls obstruction the founding fathers called Checks and Balances
By They call me (2731), southampton on Jan 29, 14 4:29 PM
Checks and balances are one thing.

Incompetence, corruption, and insanity are the new normal on the Hill...
By Mr. Z (11480), North Sea on Jan 31, 14 12:44 AM
Annddddd the train has officially left the tracks. Look what you started Joe Hampton!

... swans
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 29, 14 7:58 PM
Whaaat I'm on vacation, To busy watching the chicks to worry about Swans ;)

Besides it was Dan who lit this fuse and HHS who picked up the Fire Cracker and ran around in circles
By joe hampton (3382), south hampton on Jan 30, 14 1:31 AM
Yes,

Some people around here are good at lighting fuses and running away
By They call me (2731), southampton on Jan 30, 14 2:01 AM
There were lovely Swans inside the atrium of a hotel I had breakfast in today. I asked them how they felt about the issue (They had no comment )
By joe hampton (3382), south hampton on Jan 30, 14 11:38 AM
to They call me:

In light of your newest avatar, I suspect that your ultimate comment refers to me. If so, its speciousness is obvious. I have never abandoned a discussion until my opponents have conceded, overtly or tacitly.
By highhatsize (4116), East Quogue on Jan 30, 14 1:12 PM
Or perhaps if you would ever be wrong about something, or is this not a logical possibility?
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 30, 14 1:18 PM
Yea PBR - that is exactly how I read it. HHS is incapable of being "wrong" on anything and thus requires his opponents to "concede".

At the very least we all should be able to "agree to disagree" at some point, but in the all-mighty-eyes of HHS there is only victory and defeat (to which he has apparently only experienced one side).

You would think that for someone with such a deft grasp on the english language he would would know there are a lot alternatives to "victory" and ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 30, 14 2:13 PM
1 member liked this comment
.
.
.
.
.

[ . . . waiting . . . ]

.
.
.

By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 30, 14 3:26 PM
to Nature:

We may disagree about the semantics of my ultimate post but at least we all agree that there is nothing to They call me's accusation.

By highhatsize (4116), East Quogue on Jan 30, 14 8:07 PM
Perhaps - but he gets points for creativity and you have it admit it's KIND of funny.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 30, 14 8:24 PM
1 member liked this comment
.
.
.
.
.

[tacit concession noted]

.
.
.
.
.
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 30, 14 8:55 PM
my favorite part is the swan on the shirt
By Erin 27 E (1225), southampton on Jan 30, 14 9:36 PM
<-----

THE TWEET LAST NIGHT WAS OUT RAGEOUS
AND UNACCEPTABLE. WE IMMEDIATELY
ACKNOWLEDGEDD THAT IT WAS OFFENSIVE AND
WRONG,APOLOGIZED,ANDDELETED IT.WE
HAVE DISMISSED THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE
FOR THAT TWEET.

I PERSONALY APOLOGIZE TO MR. PRIEBUS
AND TO EVERYONE OFFENDED.

AT MSNBC, WE BELIEVE IN PASSIONATE,
STRONG DEBATE ABOUT THE ISSUES AND WE
INVITE VOICES FROM ALL SIDE TO
PARTICIPATE.THAT WILL NEVER CHANGE

PHIL GRIFFIN,
...more
Jan 30, 14 9:53 PM appended by Undocumented Democrat
"AT MSNBC, WE BELIEVE IN PASSIONATE, STRONG DEBATE ABOUT THE ISSUES AND WE INVITE VOICES FROM ALL SIDE TO PARTICIPATE" We just never invite any of those voices on the show as it is much easier to have our progressive agenda go unchallenged by stacking two guests with the same opinion (and you know its true)
By Undocumented Democrat (1982), southampton on Jan 30, 14 9:53 PM
1 member liked this comment
THE TWEET LAST NIGHT WAS OUT RAGEOUS
AND UNACCEPTABLE. WE IMMEDIATELY
ACKNOWLEDGED THAT IT WAS OFFENSIVE AND
WRONG

WE
HAVE DISMISSED THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE
FOR THAT TWEET.

Seems like a pattern they let someone go for being unprofessional at least twice a month, Anyway tell Keith, Alec, Martian and Soledad that Melitha & Ed will be along soon

By Undocumented Democrat (1982), southampton on Jan 30, 14 10:39 PM
i thought the commercial was adorable
Jan 30, 14 11:13 PM appended by Erin 27 E
more manufactured outrage from the usual suspects,
By Erin 27 E (1225), southampton on Jan 30, 14 11:13 PM
There you have it the latest from our own resident MASTER race BAITER
By They call me (2731), southampton on Jan 30, 14 11:22 PM
MSNBC ? Are they still even on the air?

I thought they fired everybody?
By They call me (2731), southampton on Jan 31, 14 8:32 PM
Wow, Nature has solved the mystery of what's been killing the eelgrass! Someone better tell Dr. Gobler over at SBSC. I don't think he is aware the all knowing Nature has wrapped this one up.
Swan feces is killing the bay! If that is so, then we're screwed, because I've seen a couple of hundred Cormorants in the bay all in one spot, the Nitrates make me shudder.
A thinning is likely in order in some places, but an out right eradication is ridiculous. We should take out all the red foxes ...more
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Jan 31, 14 2:54 AM
and bunnies don't forget the bunnies
By They call me (2731), southampton on Jan 31, 14 9:08 AM
Ice - nice of you to show up! It's not the only thing "impacting" eelgrass, and Gobler doesn't study eelgrass - he studies algae. Cornell Cooperative Extension has done extensive work on eelgrass. From the SeegrassLI (dot) org website:

"Grazing by waterfowl, especially Canada geese and mute swans, of both the vegetative and flower shoots may also have an affect on eelgrass populations. In the past, eelgrass likely experienced grazing pressure by waterfowl seasonally, allowing for long ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 31, 14 9:15 AM
P.S. Red Fox (vulpes vulpes) are native to North America and just about every other place on this planet aside from Australia. There's no doubt that English Settlers brought some additional ones here, but red fox had been living in North America for a long long time prior:

"The red fox originated from smaller-sized ancestors from Eurasia during the Middle Villafranchian period,[4] and colonised North America shortly after the Wisconsin glaciation.[5]"
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 31, 14 9:22 AM
Well written editorial about this issue in yesterday's Press-Agree wholeheartedly with them on this. "A death sentence for beautiful animals that simply prefer to be left alone, and for no good reason, is indefensibly extreme". Precisely.
By KevinLuss (356), SH on Jan 31, 14 11:34 AM
1 member liked this comment
EH Village has pulled out of the cull. New article out.
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 31, 14 2:18 PM
The deer cull that is. Hopefully this indicates a willingness to oppose the swan cull as well.
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 31, 14 2:20 PM
Note that the reason for pulling financial support apparently had nothing to do with a "willingness to oppose" and everything to do with a lack of practicality.
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 31, 14 2:49 PM
As you said, a convenient pass, for reasons which may run deeper, including true opposition. Time will tell.

Can you picture the village pond in EH without swans?

No way they will go forward on this . . .
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 31, 14 4:29 PM
PBR you are confounding the different plans. The Deer Cull required individual government participation through monetary support (i.e. municipalities would have to put their own money up for the federal program). The Proposed Swan reduction is a state sponsored program that would be executed (no pun intended) via state employees regardless of the wishes of municipalities. The overall plan is to eliminate swans on all public lands. It doesn't really matter if the Village is supportive or not, ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 31, 14 6:02 PM
Please, I realize they are separate plans. What they share is the common thread of big government decreeing what is right and wrong, and using a big hammer to solve problems which are more complex, and therefore require more sophisticated analysis, discussion, and planning, etc..

Question authority!
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Jan 31, 14 7:46 PM
I know you understand they are separate plans - it seemed as though you were confusing the details of the plans with one being a "voluntary/elective" culling program, the other being a state mandate.

I don't think the Draft Swan Management plan is a Hammer at all. I think a lot of people are seeing the idea to cull and assuming that it's the DEC's preferred method and that it's almost a foregone conclusion. I trust you've read the plan? And other plans from other states? Do you not give ...more
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Jan 31, 14 10:01 PM
I did read all, and thanked you for the Maryland information in another article, I believe.
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Feb 1, 14 2:37 AM
I was asking if you give credit to the state of Maryland for their success - I know you read it.

Btw (off topic) did you see an article in News Day about the guy in Riverhead selling Beet Juice for de-icing roads?
By Nature (2966), Hampton Bays on Feb 1, 14 9:43 AM
You mean there has been a beetle cull too? No I missed that article. Thx
By PBR (4938), Southampton on Feb 1, 14 3:16 PM
If Betelgeuse Explodes the whole planet will be culled
By joe hampton (3382), south hampton on Feb 2, 14 2:55 PM
The Canadian coywolves are coming! The coywolves are coming!
By btdt (446), water mill on Jan 31, 14 6:53 PM
"New York State Assemblyman Fred Thiele and State Senators Tony Avella and Steve Cymbrowitz have teamed up to co-sponsor legislation that would impose a two-year moratorium on the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation's plan to declare mute swans a "prohibited invasive species" and to kill all of the 2,200 mute swans in the state by 2025." - Southampton Patch, Feb. 15
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Might ...more
By highhatsize (4116), East Quogue on Feb 16, 14 10:52 AM
The Hampton Classic, Horse Show, Bridgehampton