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Sep 6, 2017 10:47 AMPublication: The Southampton Press

Southampton Town Board Busy Reviewing Documents On 'The Hills' As Votes Approach

Councilwoman Christine Scalera
Sep 6, 2017 11:06 AM

The five members of the Southampton Town Board spent the better part of Labor Day weekend swimming in piles of documents, preparing for key votes this month on a proposed luxury golf course resort proposed in East Quogue.

The spotlight is on a report completed last week by Dr. Christopher Gobler, a marine science professor at Stony Brook Southampton and a well-respected authority on water quality, that reviewed the nitrogen impact of the proposed development compared to alternatives. It concluded—with some qualifiers—that a handful of new proposals by Discovery Land Company makes the proposed development, “The Hills at Southampton,” less polluting than development according to the existing zoning on the site.

The five Town Board members, including Supervisor Jay Schneiderman, are expected to vote this month on a series of steps related to Arizona-based Discovery Land’s request for special zoning to clear the way for 117 homes and an 18-hole golf course on nearly 600 acres in East Quogue. The land targeted by the project sits within the Pine Barrens and close to already polluted Weesuck Creek, putting the environmental impact at the center of the conversation.

First, the board must deem the project’s final environmental impact statement complete, and accept a findings statement. Those are considered routine votes that will require only a majority of the five-member board.

The big decision will be on the request for a planned development district, a change of zone allowing the new use of the property, which is currently zoned only for 5-acre residential lots. If the Town Board is to approve the final PDD—the measure was eliminated from the town code this summer, but The Hills proposal was already under consideration—a supermajority vote is required. That means four of the five Town Board members must support it.

Officially, none of the five board members would say this week how they plan to vote when the PDD is before them, likely before the end of September.

Observers inside Town Hall and elsewhere have tallied Town Board member John Bouvier as a likely “no” vote—meaning only one more board member would have to object to kill the PDD. But this week, he would only say that he is “close” to a personal decision on The Hills.

“I have to review everything that is presented in front of me in order to make a decision,” Mr. Bouvier said. “Until I see everything, I think it’s disingenuous of me to comment.”

Mr. Bouvier noted that he is paying attention to all aspects of the project—including the nitrogen impact, pesticides and community benefits. He said he also is trying to take a broader view and is considering the Suffolk County standards for the amount of nitrogen permitted in drinking water—currently, the county standard is 10 milligrams per liter—and how that might change in the future.

He said he reviewed Dr. Gobler’s presentation of his findings from last week, as well as the findings from the developer’s scientists. He also is still waiting for the findings from AKRF Environmental and Planning Consultants of Bohemia, an engineering consultant hired by the town to review the project, and the advice of the Town Planning Board.

“I have spent hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours studying this issue,” Mr. Bouvier said. “I’m not taking it lightly”

Mr. Schneiderman, on the other hand, was the only one from the Town Board present on August 28 when Dr. Gobler presented his findings to about 40 people in a classroom at the Stony Brook Southampton Marine Science Center in Shinnecock Hills, where Dr. Gobler is employed as a professor.

While Mr. Schneiderman said that he, too, is still reviewing the proposal, after listening to Dr. Gobler’s presentation last week, the supervisor said the developer now has “a really good chance” to get his vote.

Councilman Stan Glinka said on Tuesday that he has been busy dissecting the report and maintains that he has yet to decide whether he will vote “yes” or “no” on the proposal.

“I’m going over it with a fine-toothed comb and doing my due diligence,” he said. “I’m still going over everything. I think I can say that my fellow Town Board members are doing the same thing as I’m doing.”

Christine Scalera called Dr. Gobler’s finding’s “significant” to her review of the proposal, noting that she intends to support whichever alternative for the site is best for the environment in terms of nitrogen loading.

“Everyone agrees on the science,” Ms. Scalera said in a phone interview on Tuesday, pointing to the fact that Dr. Gobler’s numbers appear to be similar to the developer’s in the FEIS.

Though she stressed that she is not done reviewing Dr. Gobler’s newest report, and other recent materials on the project, she noted that she will vote for the option that she feels will be best for the environment.

Ms. Lofstad echoed that sentiment. “I respect [Dr. Gobler’s] report, as well as everyone else’s,” she said.

Ms. Lofstad admitted to spending the better part of her Labor Day weekend reviewing the materials, and noted that the biggest question mark for her is how the project will affect the region’s underground sources of potable water.

“I have serious concerns about what a development like this can do to our aquifer,” Ms. Lofstad said. “That’s my biggest concern. I’m going to review it.”

Like her colleagues, Ms. Lofstad would not say for certain which way she intends to vote this month.

“I think I’m close [to a decision], but I haven’t reviewed everything yet,” she said. “I think it would be unfair, and perhaps improper procedure, to say anything more.”

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You got to be kidding me!!!!' They spent the holiday weekend reviewing The Hills development.. I guess the author of the article missed Jay dancing in The Hamptons...Unreal. Fake News....
By Tomjulie (18), Hampton Bays on Sep 6, 17 11:54 AM
2 members liked this comment
NITROGEN IS NOT THE ONLY ISSUE!!!!
By Taz (282), East Quogue on Sep 6, 17 12:05 PM
1 member liked this comment
It's an election year boys and girls, keep that in mind as you make your decision.
By bigfresh (2978), north sea on Sep 6, 17 1:04 PM
2 members liked this comment
Respectfully, each TB member has filled their plates with water quality issues. More important is the potential for NYSDEC to classify the Hampton Bays FD site a Superfund site (see Newsday). The Hills demonstrates sustainable development with water quality protection and controls that exceed any presented in the Town's land use history. There are much more significant drinking water concerns to address and study, with greater long term impacts.
By Lion (219), southampton on Sep 6, 17 2:06 PM
2 members liked this comment
... I think the nitrogen infused groundwater along Spinney in East Quogue should be declared a Superfund site and should not be left to the hands of a private developer to manipulate - it should be managed by the state or federal government,

Our mutual friend, Dr. Gobler, believes "fertigation", as proposed by discovery, is uncharted territory and has too many risky variables to be even considered as a nitrogen mitigation measure.

I am sure the Town Board is aware of this, ...more
By William Rodney (461), southampton on Sep 6, 17 3:13 PM
While we are at it we should declare every Marina from the canal to WHB a Super-fund site... The article Lion is referring to says gas and oils are also responsible for polluting our water ( well well who knew ? )

Seems we should be going after the owners of these Marinas and the petroleum, soap and toxic bottom paint that gets hosed into the water every day! But no you cant talk about that right ? You cant target the local businesses who sit on the board members and family in politics ...more
By joe hampton (2903), The Hamptons on Sep 6, 17 3:27 PM
1 member liked this comment
WR, Dr. Gobler may not have the hydro geological experience or technical background in turfgrass physiology to comment on fertilization of turf with nitrogen laden groundwater. Golf courses throughout the country irrigate with reclaimed water- including Indian Island on the Peconic Estuary-nitrogen is a nutrient the plant requires. You may have a limited understanding of what it means to designate an area a Superfund site. Your post is a reckless statement.
By Lion (219), southampton on Sep 6, 17 3:55 PM
Stop being a disruptor Joe !

No one here cares about things from the marinas such as gasoline, oil , soap or toxic bottom paint in the water.

Only nitrogen from a golf course.

We cant have a bunch of steak eating, star buck sipping, white ball chasing rich people invade our town . ROTF
By Ditch Bum (312), Water Mill on Sep 6, 17 8:14 PM
... your posts are desperate statements.
By William Rodney (461), southampton on Sep 7, 17 1:18 PM
you say the posts are desperate yet not one person in 24 hours has agreed the marinas are polluting our waters more than any other factor.

Its not nitrogen you are worried about it density! So at least be honest with your xenophobic selves !
By Ditch Bum (312), Water Mill on Sep 7, 17 7:55 PM
This is the kind of density that you do want. Upscale people with very little impact on the schools with money to spend in our towns, Yet the very same people let the County turn two motels into section 8 housing last year in Hampton Bays and East Quogue, they almost turned our hamlet into Brentwood over night with barely a word said by the town board till it was all most to late.
By 27dan (2116), Shinnecock Hills on Sep 7, 17 11:56 PM
seems like they are all ignoring your observations and have there hands over there ears walking around in circles saying la la la la la la la
By Erin 27 E (880), hampton bays on Sep 8, 17 2:56 PM
When you can't even properly use the word "xenophobic" in proper context, it makes it difficult to take you and your associates seriously.
By Mr. Z (9450), North Sea on Sep 10, 17 10:17 PM
After 2 weeks ! Not even Mr Z the biggest Al Gore fan on this blog has the fortitude to comment on the Issue of the Marinas being 10 times as bad a golf course! This said I move to forge on with the Hills project since there is obviously an agenda driven bias in play here !
By 27dan (2116), Shinnecock Hills on Sep 12, 17 4:07 PM
Yes, golf courses such as Indian Island that use reclaimed water from sewage treatment plants are to be commended. They are saving water.

That is not what is being proposed for the Hills. You are misleading your readers.
By CleanWater (116), East Quogue on Sep 6, 17 4:40 PM
Misleading? Hardly CW. You cannot federal and state drinking water standards prohibit the water purveyor to distribute water that exceeds the state and federal drinking water contaminant standard. The Malloy well exceeds the limit for nitrogen and that well water must be mixed with clean water to dilute the nitrogen levels to acceptable concentrations. You're actually using more water and energy to mix the waters from both wells just to drink it. The Hills remediation program is tapping into non ...more
By Lion (219), southampton on Sep 6, 17 4:47 PM
And CW, as a post script: please describe to all of us Goblers background and credentials in management of turfgrass, and particularly golf course turf management, education and experience. I'd believe that would be of critical relevance to understanding the specifics of this application.
By Lion (219), southampton on Sep 6, 17 5:05 PM
Total double-speak Lion. No one said anything about potable water. Not part of the conversation, not for Indian Island, your example, or the Hills. The Hills is "tapping" into the groundwater. like any other irrigation well. Whether or not what they propose will be of any value is pure speculation. And it may in fact be spreading toxic chemicals it picks up along with the nitrogen.
By CleanWater (116), East Quogue on Sep 6, 17 4:58 PM
Well, Mr. Schneiderman, if this project has " a really good chance of getting your vote" despite the fact that you are more than well aware that those showing up in droves at your meetings are the profit driven carpet baggers, then Ray Overton now has more than " a really good chance" of getting this dems vote. If the Southampton Town Democrats don't stand for the environment, then we might as well let the Republicans have at it. At least they have the backbone to stand up for their platform, ...more
By zappy (41), east quogue on Sep 6, 17 6:31 PM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By zappy (41), east quogue on Sep 6, 17 6:31 PM
Isn't the democratic party - the party of the people, but Supervisor Schneiderman, Councilpersons Bouvier and Lofstad allow the apartheid in HB to continue. They should be ashamed of themselves.
By HB Proud (744), Hampton Bays on Sep 6, 17 7:56 PM
Jay is a big fan of golf course and kisses up to some of the well heeled members, remember him meeting with freaking Bloomberg and discussing selling off OUR ROAD that runs through Shinnecock golf course? Vote yes on this one Jay and you are out!
By bigfresh (2978), north sea on Sep 7, 17 6:51 AM
2 members liked this comment
Julie...

Julie - how could you ever have imagined that the future of your Town would be in your hands?

So much misleading information being proffered as "science". It reminds me of the saying "figures don't lie - but, liars figure".

You knew what was best before you joined the Town Board and, deep down - you know nothing has changed those thoughts.

Thank you for being strong and following your instincts.
By FiddlerCrab (90), Westhampton Beach on Sep 7, 17 10:34 AM
1 member liked this comment
I beg the Town Board members to vote their conscience and not let politics sway them. This is a game changer for the entire area and the beginning of the Nassau-ifcation of the east end.
By Taz (282), East Quogue on Sep 7, 17 10:45 AM
1 member liked this comment
what a joke! Schneiderman and other Town officials are at a loss to control even our Highway person, Alex, who doesn't seem to want to work, but is looking for re-election this year. Have you seen many new roads in the Town, or even new lines in the road which were not accomplished by the County?
I am shocked to have been told by LIRR officials that new blue car spaces as well as more handicapped signs are long past due, and
Alex,the wonder boy, who wants to continue the fine work he is ...more
By Ibill (47), remsenburg on Sep 7, 17 1:12 PM
Ibill, I don't know why you and your friends have the need to beat up on our Highway Superintendent Alex Gregor. While painting handicap parking lines is important, keeping the roads open and in good repair, to me, is critical. Without clear roads, one would not be able get to the railroad station. BTW, where is there a LIRR station in Remsenburg? Keep up the great work Alex! You deserve another term in office.
By SpeedRacer (59), Southampton on Sep 7, 17 8:05 PM
The decision on the Hills should not be based on campaign promises, it should be based on the facts. Our Town Board should not sell their souls for a vote...it is unfortunate that 3 of the 5 are running for reelection.
By HB Proud (744), Hampton Bays on Sep 7, 17 4:09 PM
The hills will be great for EQ and HB so stop the saber rattling already will ya !
By Ditch Bum (312), Water Mill on Sep 7, 17 7:57 PM
HB Proud Your post is the most disturbing post I've ever read. The central document in our country states ... "WE THE PEOPLE" and not we the corporations. Our elected officials are called "public servants" because they are answerable to "WE THE PEOPLE". When The Southampton Town Board votes on the Hills PDD, this fact should be on their minds. You might be too young to remember how the Tobacco Industry produced tons of scientific studies to convince the public that smoking was not harmful to ones ...more
By SpeedRacer (59), Southampton on Sep 7, 17 8:14 PM
Wow - my comment is the most disturbing out of the hundreds of posts and comments made at the hearings? Really? Our Town Board is our designee to make sound, informed decisions on our behalf weighing all the facts including pubic opinion. Obviously, I would expect them to retain independent advisers that can be trusted. I don't know how you find that disturbing. I find it disturbing that you think this decision should be made by a "show of hands" of laypeople who, for the most part, have not ...more
By HB Proud (744), Hampton Bays on Sep 8, 17 2:57 AM
HB Proud It seem you missed the point of my last post and you must have missed the day, in high school, when the class studied the US Constitution.
The main reason I am against the Hills PDD is, that no one knows, 100% for sure, what the long term effects this project will have on our waters and environment. Ten years or One Hundred years from today, we find our water supply or our bays are damaged, beyond repair ... what do we do?
Your post was disturbing to me, not because of the Hills ...more
By SpeedRacer (59), Southampton on Sep 9, 17 1:29 PM
Well it least it appears I graduated from HS and even a little college and maybe law school and can make on argument based of facts and circumstances and not resort to insults. I call your argument "your mother wears army boots defense"....have a blessed day.
By HB Proud (744), Hampton Bays on Sep 9, 17 3:39 PM
TRUTHFUL DEVELOPERS ???

A friend once told me "don't listen to what they say - watch what they do".

He meant that you can't always depend on someone's talking points. It could
just be their marketing strategy.

If you want to see what "The Hills" developer will do here in our
neighboorhood - take a close look at what they did with Professor Kathleen Sealey, PhD of Miami University.

The Hills developer hired her to look after the environmental impacts ...more
By FiddlerCrab (90), Westhampton Beach on Sep 8, 17 7:58 AM
And, Professor Sealey did write to Supervisor Jay Schneiderman and her comments are included in the file at Town Hall on "The Hills" request for a change of zoning.
By FiddlerCrab (90), Westhampton Beach on Sep 8, 17 8:01 AM
And yet the copy the public received had redactions, if I remember correctly. Does Jay's? Is his copy a matter of public record? Too many questions swept under the rug on this PDD application.
By Taz (282), East Quogue on Sep 8, 17 10:54 AM
How is it that it took 4 years for DLC to come up with "acceptable" science? Are they not that smart (a problem) or were they just uncaring (a problem) all this time? Either way, I don't want them in my community. Kill The Hills!!!!
By Taz (282), East Quogue on Sep 8, 17 10:57 AM
golf courses are beautiful and bring up property values in the community ? just monitor the run off.

if that is what your really worred about it seems like an easy think to police ?
By Erin 27 E (880), hampton bays on Sep 8, 17 2:59 PM
Care to volunteer? The Town Code enforcement is already overburdened & it is our tax dollars that pay for them. "just monitor the run off" and "it seems like an easy think to police" shows your bias &/or naivety.
By Taz (282), East Quogue on Sep 8, 17 5:38 PM
The Bridge has been doing it scientifically and successfully since before it opened per agreement with the Town. This has been cited in the DEIS and FEIS for the Hills.

Your failure to recognize this shows your bias and/or ignorance.
By VOS (985), WHB on Sep 8, 17 9:52 PM
1 member liked this comment
You could not be more wrong. The monitoring protocol works like this:

1. Representatives from Leggett, Brashears and Graham show up at the golf course unannounced.
2. They take samples from all of the monitoring wells and lysimeters on the property. In the case of Sebonack, 6 monitoring wells and eighteen lysimeters.
3. A&B samples are refrigerated and shipped to a lab in another state. Often, one in Indiana.
4. The lab results are sent to Cornell University and are analyzed ...more
By Mark Hissey (166), East Quogue on Sep 8, 17 9:57 PM
2 members liked this comment
This is from a letter in "The Hills" file - sent to the Town Board members by the environmental attorney Carolyn Zenk on
March 31, 2015:

Re: “Hills at Southampton” PDD golf course is inadvisable.
WEAKENING TESTING THRESHOLDS FOR NITROGEN WHEN GOLF COURSE MONITORING WELLS CONTAIN TOO MUCH POLLUTION: Implications of Resolution 2015-324 re: “Golf at the Bridge,” (March 24th 2015 agenda), & implications of abandoning a SEBONAC monitoring well w too much Nitrogen.

My ...more
By FiddlerCrab (90), Westhampton Beach on Sep 8, 17 10:58 PM
We've had near-endless discussion of the science here, both the real type and the fake type, and also near-endless debate over how to interpret the science.

This thread seems to be going beyond that. People like FiddlerCrab and Taz are homing in on the underlying feeling, the instinct if you like, of our representatives about this proposal. Addressing Julie Lofstad (though it could be any of the Town Board members), FiddlerCrab says above: "You knew what was best before you joined the ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1739), Quiogue on Sep 8, 17 9:42 PM

"So there are two parts to your job here, Town Board. Please do them both."

Yes, please do, without the petty, partisan political blinders.
By VOS (985), WHB on Sep 8, 17 9:56 PM
TB, as Southampton Town's self proclaimed Democracy Defender, how do you support Taz's posted statements about not wanting Discovery "in MY COMMUNITY" When did You, TAZ, the Fiddling Crab take over and claim decision authority in the land of My Community? Did someone miss Discovery's ownership of 600 acres in the Town of Southampton? They have followed the procedures and due process of local law for an impartial and non-predjudicial review of their application. Persistent political arm twisting, ...more
By Lion (219), southampton on Sep 10, 17 7:35 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By FiddlerCrab (90), Westhampton Beach on Sep 8, 17 10:59 PM
This is from the March 31st, 2015 letter sent to the Southampton Town Supervisor at the time - Anna Throne-Holst and all of the Town Board members:

CONCLUSION

These examples demonstrate that town boards may not remember the science behind golf course monitoring protocols; they could mindlessly weaken them by mistake as nearly happened in this case. The Town Board forgot a change made only four years ago. Once a golf course is allowed, a groundwater monitoring program must last ...more
By FiddlerCrab (90), Westhampton Beach on Sep 8, 17 11:14 PM
Carolyn Zenk? OK...

The same Carolyn Zenk, Attorney at Law who quotes the non-existent Anderson's Rules of Order? The same Carolyn Zenk who either gets paid by or fooled by Ron Kass? The same Ron Kass who takes a free golf membership from Hampton Hills along with imprisoned Ed Walsh of the Conservative Party? The same Ron Kass who is so morally outraged by turf agronomy yet has a robust spraying program on his own property?
By Mark Hissey (166), East Quogue on Sep 9, 17 12:11 AM
I have nothing against discovery land - great company with well run properties

my sole issue is that I feel the area is the greatest place on earth and wish it could stay as is.

The town had a chance to purchase the site which they blew - really a shame. This discussion would have been moot.



By Summer Resident (208), Southampton N.Y. on Sep 9, 17 1:58 AM
Thank you Summer, you are one of the only honest opponents of this amazing project. The rest think everyone is stupid, but we see right through your BS. Just set up a system to monitor the golf coarse and stop the nonsense already.

Its like this classic overreaction by media and weathermen to Hurricane Irma.
Few will believe them next time when evacuation may truly be needed.
Way too much apocalyptic certainty was spewed as Irma approaches. Kind of like this golf course issue has ...more
By They call me (2143), southampton on Sep 9, 17 4:02 PM
Your analogy of environmentalists concern about the effect the Hills will have on rapidly degrading water quality on LI to "overreaction" by the media is provocative.

Good analogy - terrible conclusion

Tell the 20 people already dead from this hurricane that the media overreacted.

As to the golf course and it's potential impact on water quality, It's time to devote serious resources to fixing the problem and certainly time to stop adding to the problem.

Cutting ...more
By CleanWater (116), East Quogue on Sep 10, 17 4:52 PM
1 member liked this comment
I'm Not an opponent. I'm not fighting it. Just sitting back on the sidelines seeing what happens.

I simply shared a viewpoint that I like EQ as it is. It still has a certain charm that most of the east end has lost.
By Summer Resident (208), Southampton N.Y. on Sep 13, 17 2:13 AM
Yes, Caroline Zenk, Attorney at Law, Environmental Advocate, expert on SEQRA, Southampton Town Board member for 4 years.

The same Carolyn Zenk who stopped Discovery Land and Anna Throne-Holst in their attempt to by-pass the Pine Barrens Commission review of "The Hills".
By FiddlerCrab (90), Westhampton Beach on Sep 9, 17 12:13 PM
The same Carolyn Zenk that as Town Council Member, who in the middle of a TB meeting, jumped out of her board seat; ran to the podium and interrogated the sitting Town Board as a "resident of the Town." That Carolyn Zenk? If that's your bucket of wisdom, you might want to check for leaks....
By Lion (219), southampton on Sep 10, 17 8:03 AM
What happens if the golf course fails the monitoring tests?Too many questions. Frequency of testing?Quarterly reports are sent to the Town for "review and reaction." What are the penalties? A fine? No problem for golf course, they have hefty membership prices along with hefty annual playing fees. Cease and desist golf course operation? I seriously doubt it. We need specifics, not long time delays as the testers analyze, send reports every 3 months to the Town and then the Board decides how to ...more
By Taz (282), East Quogue on Sep 9, 17 12:37 PM
T, the Town and County have poured in millions of tax dollars to protect agricultural properties. There are no restrictions on use of pesticides and no monitoring required. In contrast golf courses in Southampton are restricted on inputs, and monitored, with no golf course as closely monitored and restricted as the Hills, including its residential properties. So yes, the local golf courses have an "open book" on their turf management practices. The thousands of acres of agricultural and residential ...more
By Lion (219), southampton on Sep 10, 17 7:50 AM
Here's an eye-opener, search:
notesfromtheroad/guanacayblog
See how Discovery Land and Bakers Bay development have treated the locals in the Bahamas who are concerned for their pristine coral reef.
Sep 9, 17 6:48 PM appended by loading...
..."once" pristine, that is
By loading... (510), quiogue on Sep 9, 17 6:48 PM
Bottom line, there's no right to have the zoning changed on a property.
By bigfresh (2978), north sea on Sep 10, 17 8:07 AM
1 member liked this comment
REMEMBER THE SANDY HOLLOW SECTION 8 PROJECTS.
DUMP THE SHT BOARD & DRAIN THE SWAMP NOW !!!!!!
By pw herman (703), southampton on Sep 10, 17 8:52 AM
This zoning variance is worth at least $100 million in profit to the development company. What will the company do for the local economy? Will the landscaping and waitstaff jobs increase local employment opportunities? How many? 100? 200? With their families? Or will these dishwashing and grass cutting jobs go to "independent contractors" from newly formed companies from a different area? Are these new workers to be housed in East Quogue? Or Hampton Bays?
By dfree (316), hampton bays on Sep 10, 17 8:09 AM
What are the penalties to violations of the pesticide and nitrogen levels? Still waiting for an answer.
By Taz (282), East Quogue on Sep 10, 17 9:22 AM
Plenty of questions for you to answer. Take a look at them in any number of threads. And grab yourself a copy of the FEIS and take the time to read it. You'll find all of your answers in there. Your questions strongly indicate that you haven't bothered to do that.
By Mark Hissey (166), East Quogue on Sep 10, 17 10:20 PM
Seemingly it will depend on the Town Board makeup, that leaves the door open for all sorts of shenanigans .
By bigfresh (2978), north sea on Sep 10, 17 6:02 PM

Hypothetical - I have my home on a little over 1/2 acre in East Quogue. The house, pool, and little lawn used up all the "clearing" i was allowed under my building permit. I want to expand my lawn by another 200 square feet. And I don't want to do what everyone else does and just take down a few trees late one afternoon in November. I go to Town Hall and ask for a hardship variance to allow me to do it. They say OK, but they add conditions: No more than 25 lbs of fertilizer per year ...more
By CleanWater (116), East Quogue on Sep 10, 17 8:59 PM
1 member liked this comment
50lbs of fertilizer on 200 square feet is not advisable.You not only would destroy your grass but you would be a huge contributor of nitrogen loading to the bay. Worse still if you lived on one on the densely populated areas right on the water.

Much better to have the grass closely monitored and maintained by licensed professionals.
By Mark Hissey (166), East Quogue on Sep 10, 17 10:29 PM
Typical deflection by DLC. This was a HYPOTHETICAL used to make a point about the "fantasy" of monitoring, a point Mr. Hissey chose to ignore.
By Taz (282), East Quogue on Sep 11, 17 12:17 PM
Mark Hissey:. You seem very well informed on this topic. Question for you:. Is the profit for the Development Company resulting from this zoning variance as promised to the Partners projected to be more than $100 million? And how much money is budgeted for swaying the votes on the Town Board? Has the Development Company estimated the legal expenses from the lawsuit against an adverse Board vote? Do your legal experts advise that personal lawsuits be filed against those who would rather not see ...more
By dfree (316), hampton bays on Sep 11, 17 8:01 AM
I would love to see Mr. Hissey address the monies budgeted for swaying the town board. That will be an interesting discussion and one that has not yet been discussed. Mr. Hissey?
By zappy (41), east quogue on Sep 12, 17 1:27 PM
Mr. Hissey, where in the FEIS are the penalties for violating the pesticide and nitrogen levels? If I missed it as you say, I will be the first to admit it.
By Taz (282), East Quogue on Sep 11, 17 12:14 PM
Cat got your tongue, Mr. Hissey?
By Taz (282), East Quogue on Sep 12, 17 10:24 AM
No. It clearly has yours. You don't answer anything. Take a few hours to read the FEIS and stop trying to get people to do the work for you. You continually ask questions which are clearly described in the FEIS.
By Mark Hissey (166), East Quogue on Sep 15, 17 7:02 PM
Mr. Hissey no longer needs to engage the public. With the finding that building a golf course development means less pollution, he's now free to work the Board. For a $100 million in profits, he can offer some serious inducements to the 5 people whose vote counts. He needs four, so the last hold out gets the most. An interesting negotiating situation.
By dfree (316), hampton bays on Sep 12, 17 10:37 AM
There was no finding that the golf course development means less pollution. The only people who have read the Gobler report and came to that conclusion were Mark Hissey of Discovery Land and Amanda Bernocco the Press reporter who seems to like quoting Mr. Hissey.

As Bob Deluca (Group for the East End) said:

"In fact, the report is hardly an endorsement of the project and states without equivocation that had the additional nitrogen mitigation measures offered for Discovery’s ...more
By CleanWater (116), East Quogue on Sep 12, 17 11:14 AM
Well CW, unfortunately those comments are about as meaningless as any other hypothetical development, such as a placing a tent up on the 600 acres and drinking water from mud puddles. Understand that whatever reiterations that DeLuca, yourself or others dream up, the EIS Final Scope defined the parameters of alternatives for study and although other alternatives were reviewed in the FEIS, including DeLuca's Rodeo Ranch, the sponsor can't be forced to provide public benefits such as the onsite STP, ...more
By Lion (219), southampton on Sep 12, 17 4:37 PM
As so eloquently written in this weeks Press by Carolyn Zenk, Atty at Law:

When Supervisor Jay Schneiderman presented Dr. Gobler with a PDD plan, which relies on off-site environmental benefits to compete with current zoning, he betrayed a principle he’s repeatedly espoused: that the PDD plan must beat the as-of-right plan “intrinsically.”

And as attributed in the press to Supervisor Schneiderman himself:
"Mr. Schneiderman said town officials sought ways to ...more
By CleanWater (116), East Quogue on Sep 14, 17 9:41 AM
1 member liked this comment
That is about as accurate an analysis as anyone could expect.

The fact that some would turn on Dr Gobler is disgraceful.
By Mark Hissey (166), East Quogue on Sep 16, 17 12:15 AM
It ain't over til the fat lady sings.
By Taz (282), East Quogue on Sep 12, 17 10:50 AM
There was no finding that the golf course development means less pollution. The only people who have read the Gobler report and came to that conclusion were Mark Hissey of Discovery Land and Amanda Bernocco the Press reporter who seems to like quoting Mr. Hissey.

As Bob Deluca (Group for the East End) said:

"In fact, the report is hardly an endorsement of the project and states without equivocation that had the additional nitrogen mitigation measures offered for Discovery’s ...more
By CleanWater (116), East Quogue on Sep 12, 17 12:39 PM
After 2 weeks ! Not even Mr Z the biggest Al Gore fan on this blog has the fortitude to comment on the Issue of the Marinas being 10 times as bad a golf course! This said I move to forge on with the Hills project since there is obviously an agenda driven bias in play here !
By 27dan (2116), Shinnecock Hills on Sep 13, 17 10:32 AM
2 wrongs don't make a right. We need to EVERYTHING to mitigate the water problems here in LI.
By Taz (282), East Quogue on Sep 13, 17 11:03 AM
1 member liked this comment
Please advise how you now dispose of your domestic sewage.
By VOS (985), WHB on Sep 14, 17 3:11 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By CleanWater (116), East Quogue on Sep 14, 17 9:58 AM
It would be nice if the local community got 50% of the profits from this zoning variance. I wonder if Discovery Land would share the financial projections that they used to get their loans and equity partners?
By dfree (316), hampton bays on Sep 14, 17 11:46 AM
It's doubtful that Hissey and company would have buyers for homes in the woods of EQ without the golf course, but granting the requested PDD guarantees massive development of the property in question. No brainer denying this change of zoning after all he has no right to it.
By bigfresh (2978), north sea on Sep 16, 17 7:57 AM
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