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Nov 10, 2017 10:31 AMPublication: The Southampton Press

Developer Files Pre-Application For 137-Unit Subdivision In East Quogue, Backup Plan To 'Hills'

The Hills property.
Nov 15, 2017 10:31 AM

With a vote pending on a proposed luxury golf course resort community in East Quogue—one that appears ready to go down to defeat—the developers have ramped up the pressure on the Southampton Town Board by filing a pre-application for the residential subdivision plan that is the threatened alternative.

Discovery Land Company wants to subdivide the nearly 600 acres for 137 residential units, including 13 affordable housing units, according to the proposal filed with the Planning Board on October 30. That development, which adheres to the existing zoning on the property, would be the plan if its current proposal for a special change of zone, called a planned development district, or PDD, to build 118 units and an 18-hole golf course is voted down on December 5, as is expected.

For the change of zone to be approved, clearing the way for “The Hills at Southampton,” the developer needs the support of a super-majority, or four out of the five Town Board members. Councilman John Bouvier and Councilwoman Julie Lofstad have both suggested that they might vote against the proposal.

“I think [Discovery Land is] anticipating a denial of the golf course, since they need four votes and it doesn’t appear that they will have the four votes,” Town Supervisor Jay Schneiderman said on Friday.

The backup subdivision plan targets the same nearly 600 acres as the former project and calls for the construction of 137 units—five clubhouse units, 12 club cabins, 49 village lots, 31 village estates, and 27 woodland estates. It also would put 13 workforce housing units on a nearby property that has been included as part of the larger development, but would have been preserved under the PDD.

The development would be clustered near Spinney Road on the center of the property, which stretches from Sunrise Highway to Lewis Road.

The proposal notes that 118 units are allowed under the site’s 5-acre residential zoning, the most restrictive in the town. The developer tacked on another six units because of its purchase of Pine Barrens credits, upping the total of units to 124. The last 13 units were added by citing the Long Island Workforce Housing Act—under the law, a developer can get an additional 10 percent density if the units are used for affordable housing.

The subdivision would include amenities for residents including a clubhouse, pool, event lawn, putting course and short game area, boathouse, pond clubhouse, four tennis courts, four pickleball courts, and sports fields—but no golf course.

“It’s like a homeowners’ association,” said Mr. Schneiderman, noting that it’s an allowable use of the property. “I don’t think it’s what they really want,” he added. “I think they would rather do their golf course development.”

While the supervisor suggested that the pre-application submission could be a “strategic” move, meant to remind the Town Board and the community that it is serious about going forward with the subdivision if the PDD is denied, he pointed out that it wasn’t a cheap move. As part of the pre-application submission, Mr. Schneiderman said the developer was subjected to nearly $100,000 in town fees.

The pre-application, filed by Mark Hissey, senior vice president for Discovery Land, notes that the subdivision will fit in well with the surrounding East Quogue community.

“The low-density residential use will conform to the land use type of the surrounding neighborhood,” the pre-application reads. “… The proposed subdivision is a residential community that will integrate the lot owners into the community as patrons and consumers for local businesses which will strengthen the hamlet and downtown.”

Mr. Hissey did not respond to a request for comment.

In addition to the subdivision, if the PDD is denied, property owner Carolyn Parlato has said she plans to move forward and develop another 33-acre swath in East Quogue with 30 more units. Under the PDD proposal, the developer plans to purchase and preserve Ms. Parlato’s property.

Likewise, a subdivision plan for the Parlato property already has been submitted to the Planning Board.

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Always an encouraging word from newly re-elected Town Supervisor Jay Schneiderman, also newly registered Democrat, toward DLC. After all, he's their guy, and needs to make sure DLC will line his campaign pockets for his challenge against Zeldin in 2018.
People, you re-elected Schneiderman- just give him some time, and you'll see where he's going to focus. Another ATH disaster in the making, and we know what happened with that.

Good Luck to the Democratic Party. !

By HamptonClassic (38), Southampton on Nov 10, 17 2:26 PM
3 members liked this comment
What ATH disaster ? She followed the PDD to the letter and there are a giant percentage of the town that thinks the CPI / Boathouse project is just what Hampton Bays needs to make it not only a real hampton but the best Hampton! Wait and see HC people like bigblue are going to be amazed Hampton Bays is poised to take off for the moon! Anyone with some vision can see It has already begun.

Hampton Bays remains the toilet of the hamptons. Few more years of getting crapped on
By bigblue84 ...more
By joe hampton (2906), The Hamptons on Nov 10, 17 2:47 PM
it is ready to take off...in a direction that is ill suited for success
By tom (51), Hampton Bays on Nov 14, 17 12:26 AM
Sorry Tom... there are some people in town that like the direction HB is headed. They are tired of being mocked as the step child of the Hampton's! there are some who can see the potential of this place and are doing something about it. Most love Star bucks, Cow fish and the planned renovation of the Canoe Place Inn, I Personally would like to see the old HB Lighthouse rebuilt and a third high end restaurant added to the Jacksons Marina side off the water. stop being afraid of you property taxes ...more
By joe hampton (2906), The Hamptons on Nov 16, 17 12:17 PM
2 members liked this comment
You genius opponents of this beautiful ecologically monitored project are going to end up screwing over yourselves and the people who will benifit... just like a few years ago with the McDonald's drive thru Stop and Shop fiasco. Remember that one George ?

This time it will be on Julie Lofstads legacy when we end up with much worse than you are stubbornly fighting against ! What are you people thinking ? !
By joe hampton (2906), The Hamptons on Nov 10, 17 2:39 PM
If this thing doesn't get built we'll just wind up with another half-baked compromise like the CPI renovation.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 10, 17 2:51 PM
Joe Hampton "You can fool some of the people some of the time," IF the DLC thought that they could make a lot of money building "As Of Right" houses, they would have done so, months ago. They are in it for the "Big Bucks", and if they can scare you into doing what they want, they sure will.
So, buckle up, it ain't over till it's over!
By SpeedRacer (61), Southampton on Nov 10, 17 2:54 PM
4 members liked this comment
," IF the DLC thought that they could make a lot of money building "As Of Right" houses, they would have done so, months ago ???

If you leave them no choice they will build garbage homes in the woods just to spite you, and they will make a profit doing it!

People like Caroline Z alway think they are as smart like Rachel Maddow only problem is Ira Renart has 100 times the money of Rachel Maddow and C Z combined.

Cut off your nose to spite you face. Real smart thinking .
By Undocumented Democrat (1517), southampton on Nov 10, 17 3:06 PM
Ok Speed, so who doesn’t make a buck in east end real estate? Discovery only builds and operates resort style facilities.. but a standard approved subdivision can be “flipped” to any build out developer. EQ will have just one more mediocre full time housing development. All this rancor that it wont happen is baloney ... the community will suffer as it did when the Southampton Pines subdivision was denied a golf course. What do Lofstad, Schneiderman, or Bouvier, all Hampton Bays ...more
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 10, 17 5:33 PM
This line of thinking always leaves me laughing. They are in it for the money, unlike the rest of the world who make investments to go broke?
By bb (721), Hampton Bays on Nov 15, 17 10:32 PM
They are thinking the same thing they always do. This place is for us, Not for you!
Instead of growing smart like somthing the Hills project would accomplish, they choose to suffocate there families and turn inward. They will eventually fall victim to uber gentrification and there children will have no choice but to move away to find a life.
By Undocumented Democrat (1517), southampton on Nov 10, 17 2:56 PM
1 member liked this comment
You "ALL" can thank Julie for this one.....
By The Crow's Nest (56), Red Creek on Nov 10, 17 3:18 PM
1 member liked this comment
Knock yourself out Mr. Hissey.
By rv (25), watermill on Nov 10, 17 3:39 PM
Build it in HB.
By ZebEnv (3), hampton bays on Nov 10, 17 3:58 PM
The golf resort....not the year round single family residences.
By ZebEnv (3), hampton bays on Nov 10, 17 3:59 PM
1 member liked this comment
..... and what point would that prove zeb ? Do you have something against golfers? do the silly pants offend you ? It seems to me that a golf course is nicer to look at than a section 8 housing development and brings in more tax dollars. It also has no impact on the school system ? win win, so what is your reasoning ?
By Ditch Bum (314), Water Mill on Nov 10, 17 4:44 PM
Unless Zeb was being sarcastic, didn't he say build it?
By dnice (1985), Hampton Bays on Nov 10, 17 5:14 PM
I took "build it in HB" as "don't build it in my backyard" but, yes, please build it in HB.
Nov 10, 17 5:25 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
I even have a name: "Good Ground Golf"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 10, 17 5:25 PM
1 member liked this comment
I'm really not up to speed on all of this but I think in justifying how a golf course has no impact on the school system, which is correct, I think the rest of your argument is not. First of all, the choice is golf course or Section 8 housing? One or the other? Where does that come from?
But one thing a golf course does seem to impact is the environment. A desirable golf course has to have grass manicured to a tee. No pun intended. That involves lots of water and fertilizers and pesticides ...more
By baywoman (153), southampton on Nov 19, 17 3:53 PM
Well, you say you're "really not up to speed on all of this" but that doesn't keep you from making incorrect assumptions and commenting anyway.

There is no need to make surprise inspections as the environment of the course will be monitored for water quality on an ongoing basis as Sebonac and the Bridge have been for years.

You are free to not believe the promises as you are free to deny the science which disproves your beliefs. You are also free to study the Environmental Impact ...more
By VOS (989), WHB on Nov 20, 17 9:28 AM
Hissey and company have no right to this change of zone either, this over development is not going down either.
By bigfresh (2984), north sea on Nov 10, 17 5:11 PM
Ummmmm. This is what they can build as of right.

The EQ School District is going to implode. DLC will get approvals and flip the project to someone else who will build crap houses.

Well played, Democrat party. Well played.
By Draggerman (668), Southampton on Nov 10, 17 5:53 PM
"As of right"?

You also have the right to leave something unspoiled, for [expletive deleted}'s sake.
By Mr. Z (9462), North Sea on Nov 10, 17 9:54 PM
1 member liked this comment
And you had the right to buy the property before DLC did. But, once they bought the property, they have the right to do anything that meets town zoning. And use the town laws to add some extra housing for us local folk...
By Draggerman (668), Southampton on Nov 10, 17 10:37 PM
3 members liked this comment
Well, hope you're one of the ten that wins the lottery.

Maybe you should go buy a powerball ticket while you're at it.

Dumbest retort I've read in a month.
By Mr. Z (9462), North Sea on Nov 12, 17 7:31 AM
Hmm. I don’t need a lottery house in EQ. I already own my house.
I was merely stating that DLC added 10 houses to the list because they could do it under town law for workforce housing. Those 10 houses alone are going to add up to 20 kids to the EQ school system. Leaving the property untouched is no longer an option
By Draggerman (668), Southampton on Nov 13, 17 7:08 AM
1 member liked this comment
yes but if you Mr. Z bought property and then did not build on it, unless you have money to burn you wouldn't be that fool hardy.

By tom (51), Hampton Bays on Nov 14, 17 12:33 AM
like no one saw this coming?!? rock and a hard place.
By xtiego (602), bridgehampton on Nov 10, 17 5:26 PM
So.......East Quogue School Taxes will be HIGHER THAN HAMPTON BAYS! SO GLAD I DIDN 'T buy that house THERE. BEST OF LUCK, your school will need GREAT EXPANSION !
By carsrus (57), Hampton Bays on Nov 10, 17 6:40 PM
WHB High School nearing capacity.

EQ will have to build their own.

OUCH!!
By aging hipster (129), Southampton on Nov 11, 17 6:25 AM
I despise golf, but it would benefit HB...and Eq.
By ZebEnv (3), hampton bays on Nov 10, 17 7:09 PM
1 member liked this comment
joe hampton, Let me take you down Memory Lane.. You ask about the ATH disaster? I'm referring to ATH attempting to run for Congress. She caused a Primary, challenged Zeldin,, and of course, she lost- Big Time! That was and has been a disaster for this Congressional District 1, because we have been stuck with Zeldin.

Talking about another local disaster, the CPI--have you seen it lately? A real disaster that's going no where, just as "The Hills PDD" will go no where,
Do you think ...more
By HamptonClassic (38), Southampton on Nov 10, 17 7:37 PM
1 member liked this comment
HC, you think DLC is entering into this without knowing the outcome? C'mon now.
By dnice (1985), Hampton Bays on Nov 10, 17 7:48 PM
Any approved subdivision map has significantly more value than simply the land value. The owner doesn’t always build and sell each housing unit, but sells the approved map for a speculator to build out each lot. Once the AOR map is approved by the Planning Board, it’s anybody’s game. And no, all those benefits and mitigation included on the proposed PDD do NOT get applied or enforced on the subdivision; that’s entirely untrue. All the environmental advocates that promote ...more
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 10, 17 7:53 PM
Are you aware that after the PDD process the developers of the Inn properties still needed approvals from both town and county? Are you aware that takes years? Did you hear Jay Schneiderman say that it was never feasible to have it done within three years? Have you noticed that they have in fact started doing things on the property?

Not sure how working through the process is a 'disaster' but then, you obviously don't understand the process.

As for DLC, I am sure they didn't ...more
By bb (721), Hampton Bays on Nov 15, 17 10:39 PM
All, I’ve posted many comments here to truthfully explain the process and nuts and bolts of the Hills application with focus on the golf course. Be aware this is no game of chicken or match of witts (even if Turkey Bridge plays with an extreme disadvantage). The filing of the subdivision and it’s appoval will be the ultimate direction taken should the PDD fail. Ask, what does this do for EQ ? Will your elected officials responsible for the decision be there to assist the Hamlet, or ...more
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 10, 17 8:07 PM
2 members liked this comment
Dear Undocumented (see above), So to you it's the money over principle that counts. I'm surprised you didn't include Bernie "I made off" with your money, as a person we should respect. After all he stole $50 Billion - O that's right .. he is in prison for the rest of his life. Next month we will celebrate the 2000+ birthday of a kid born in Israel to a very poor family. As best I can remember, he never had any money or property, yet his life has had a greater impact on the World than all the Kings ...more
By SpeedRacer (61), Southampton on Nov 10, 17 8:38 PM
Did you just make a religious argument against The Hills?
Nov 10, 17 9:30 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Also, I came up with a better name: "Good Ground Greens"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 10, 17 9:30 PM
Maybe if you guys had a nice golf course the houses would sell faster ? just sayin.
By local 84 (300), riverhead on Nov 10, 17 11:38 PM
2 members liked this comment
SpeedRacer, are you under the impression that the 'facts' as you state them are unknown to DLC and they will be surprised? You honestly believe they haven't looked at the statistics for the area?

It always amazes me how everyone fails to give successful people their due. They didn't get successful by not getting the facts and figures.
By bb (721), Hampton Bays on Nov 15, 17 10:44 PM
Antares.

Do you science?
By Mr. Z (9462), North Sea on Nov 10, 17 9:52 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By even flow (496), East Hampton on Nov 11, 17 7:11 AM
Oooo, look what I found on your property, Mr. Hissey FitzSoreLoser, a rare Eastern Tiger Salamander. I think we have to study this new development for about 3 years before we go over your "as of right" development.
By dfree (316), hampton bays on Nov 10, 17 11:03 PM
1 member liked this comment
Once again another ignorant Banana (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anything) shows that they have no idea what is in the Final Environmental Impact Statement or the Findings Statement prepared by an independent contractor hired by the Town. There are no Eastern Tiger Salamanders. Instead they would rather revel in their ignorance.

Of course the possibility exists that they know fully well there is nothing of the sort in the reports and they are lying to readers here in a feeble ...more
By VOS (989), WHB on Nov 10, 17 11:38 PM
1 member liked this comment
Nice dfree, did you go to the Hillary Rodham Clinton school for the corrupt?
Nov 10, 17 11:40 PM appended by local 84
Maybe i am crazy, and i do not even know why i care? but what kind of a person is against a golf course? but will take 130 + homes with 2.5 drivers per house,kids,dirt bikes,quads,drones and the potential for more drugs? Really, I just don't get it. there must be more to this?
By local 84 (300), riverhead on Nov 10, 17 11:40 PM
Some people still want to live in the farm town that existed 50 years ago. This development will push us closer to the tourist destination some of us want to be.

Grow or die, I always say.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 11, 17 7:10 AM
2 members liked this comment
No I went to Trump University, shortly before it was shut down for fraud and spent $25 million to settle with students who were ripped off by its namesake.
By dfree (316), hampton bays on Nov 11, 17 9:13 PM
1 member liked this comment
Let's see...137 houses for year round use by families should yield somewhere between 200 and 250 new kids for the East Quogue School District, almost half of whom will be bused to Westhampton Beach. What's the current rate EQ is paying for those students? Do the math. Now do the math on building new classrooms for the other half on Central Avenue.

Let's see...137 houses with standard septic systems; now there's a real reason to talk about nitrogen loading. And aren't about thirty of ...more
By VOS (989), WHB on Nov 10, 17 11:20 PM
Poker game move.

By Summer Resident (208), Southampton N.Y. on Nov 11, 17 1:32 AM
Poker game move.

By Summer Resident (208), Southampton N.Y. on Nov 11, 17 1:32 AM
Poker game, brinksmanship, any negotiator knows the game. Go toe-to-toe with these bullies Julie and John, they will back down. There is no windfall for DLC without the golf course and WITH the golf course, the residents of Southampton Town lose in the long run.
By zappy (41), east quogue on Nov 11, 17 6:56 AM
1 member liked this comment
So you think they'll back down and not build anything?

If DLC has decided it's time to cash in they're going to build something, whether it is the luxury golf course they want or the subdivision they'll subcontract to the lowest bidder.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 11, 17 7:06 AM
2 members liked this comment
Exactly Fore, they didn't just commit another $100k not knowing what ROI they would get.
By dnice (1985), Hampton Bays on Nov 11, 17 11:05 AM
The Art of the Deal.
By Draggerman (668), Southampton on Nov 13, 17 9:29 PM
Seriously?

East Quogue loses with the as of right option- the only win is the PDD.. SOMETHING WILL BE DEVELOPED THERE. Would you rather 137 + 30 units on the Parloto parcel or 118 and lower property taxes???
By EastEnder3 (7), East Quogue on Nov 14, 17 7:56 PM
1 member liked this comment
You lunatics and your Hills. If it’s west of the canal, nobody cares
By even flow (496), East Hampton on Nov 11, 17 7:08 AM
Is it too late for "Good Ground Greens"?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 11, 17 7:12 AM
VOS, your comment sis the best down to earth telling it like it will be.










By Histerical (15), East Quogue on Nov 11, 17 7:30 AM
You people are forgetting that PDD's were put into place by Vince, Kabot and Heaney, Republicans all.
By tenn tom (164), remsenburg on Nov 11, 17 7:36 AM
Stop with the party politics. PDD's have a place and when properly executed work well. The newly elected town board will be more than happy to leave EQ and HB just the way it is so the "limousine liberals" can have a place for their workforce. I seriously don't know how those political hacks in Hampton Bays and their "moms" and minions didn't get that. They will do everything they can to keep HB and EQ down. Foolish Foolish people.
By HB Proud (748), Hampton Bays on Nov 11, 17 8:14 AM
3 members liked this comment
This is about control, With a golf coarse such as this moving into town the local cabal is scared they will have more "interlopers watching how they operate.
By 27dan (2120), Shinnecock Hills on Nov 11, 17 11:00 AM
... why would Hissey bother returning a phone call when he's got Schneiderman doing his talking for him?

With those pickleball courts the place should sell out in a snap.
By William Rodney (461), southampton on Nov 11, 17 8:11 AM
1 member liked this comment
5 acre zoning,the lots will probably go for a million at least, now add in the cost of the house. The conservative cost comes in around 1.4 to 1.7 million. Good luck selling out that scam.
By bigfresh (2984), north sea on Nov 11, 17 8:30 AM
1 member liked this comment
"The subdivision [will] include other amenities...including a clubhouse, pool, event lawn, putting course and short game area, boathouse, pond clubhouse, four tennis courts, four pickleball courts, and sports fields."

This subdivision is not being built for folks like you and me, fresh.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 11, 17 9:45 AM
There have been several homes sold above 1.5 n EQ over the last few months- all North of Montauk Highway- and none of them new construction.

If they put up 137+ units- without ANY environmental givebacks- how does that help anyone???
By EastEnder3 (7), East Quogue on Nov 17, 17 7:13 AM
There was always the possibility that the "as of right" development would be the alternative if "The Hills" failed to get the change in zone for their golf course. As a resident who lives in EQ that is a possibility I can live with. I cannot live with a golf course and the "club house" that would be in my backyard should the Town approve a change in zone. I am not naive........I would rather have the land preserved but the Discovery Land Company refused all offers the Town has made. I thank Ms. ...more
By crusader (368), East Quogue on Nov 11, 17 9:32 AM
2 members liked this comment
Be mindful there are no controls or limitations on the fertilizer or pesticides that the Town can place on the subdivision. Only the NYSDEC can regulate pesticides and the County fertilizer. The AOR provides method for monitoring or reporting except for pesticides that are exclusively reported to the State. Bouvier and Lofstad have stuck to their guns which are pointed at their feet. Neither has provided credible information or evidence against the PDDs specific environmental impacts. I expect more ...more
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 11, 17 9:57 AM
again please tell us how a golf course in you "backyard" is a bad thing. ???
By Erin 27 E (881), hampton bays on Nov 11, 17 10:56 AM
3 members liked this comment
Correction * AOR provides NO method for monitoring-
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 11, 17 9:59 AM
seems to me we could build the golf coarse and be more like bridgehampton, or 137 dumpy houses and be more like mastic ! your choice Julie .
By Erin 27 E (881), hampton bays on Nov 11, 17 10:53 AM
DLCwill write a book:"WHAT HAPPENED?"They never considered losing the PDDand are now apoplectic, scrambling to find something. anything, to change their fate.
By Taz (285), East Quogue on Nov 11, 17 11:11 AM
1 member liked this comment
$100,000pre-application for AOR is 5,000 to1 gamble to win PDDand $500million if it convinces Julie or John to change theiir vote. If Julie and John (and possibly Tommy John, since it appears the PDD vote is being postponed again) stand firm, DLC will absorb the $100,000 very easily into the sale price of the property to another developer or best case, the town CPF. They will not waste their time here building out, according to them, a pollution full development among neighbors they claim to care ...more
By Taz (285), East Quogue on Nov 11, 17 11:24 AM
2 members liked this comment
DLCwill write a book:"WHAT HAPPENED?"They never considered losing the PDDand are now apoplectic, scrambling to find something. anything, to change their fate.
By Taz (285), East Quogue on Nov 11, 17 11:30 AM
Anything as in "as of right" development?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 11, 17 11:48 AM
See my post above.
They will not waste their time here building out, according to them, a pollution full development among neighbors they claim to care about. They will move on to make big bucks somewhere else, which is what they do.
By Taz (285), East Quogue on Nov 11, 17 11:53 AM
1 member liked this comment
...and subcontract this development to the lowest bidder
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 11, 17 12:07 PM
What facts are you basing this on?
By bb (721), Hampton Bays on Nov 15, 17 10:50 PM
I find it very interesting what Fore1 and Erin have said above. It seems very apparent that both Hampton Bays and the East quogue are at a Crossroads. They can never be a bucolic Upstate New York farm community anymore, so now they have a choice to make. They can become more like Bridgehampton or more like Shirley. I guess everyone has some soul-searching to do on that. Maybe it's time that young adults explain the world to the parents of these communities after all this damn future if their parents ...more
Nov 11, 17 1:43 PM appended by widow gavits
My apologies for the errors I am on my laptop and using voice text but you get the idea. I was trying to say maybe it's time the young adults in these communities explain to their parents and grandparents it's time to let go before they get left behind. Change the golf course and the business and character it would bring to the neighborhood it's not the worst option
By widow gavits (136), sag harbor on Nov 11, 17 1:43 PM
1 member liked this comment
In the past I have not yet truly made up my my mind but now that they hve offered an alternative they are happy with my opinion in made.

If it matters any, I am a NYC resident with a young family who summers and weekends in EQ and have owned in EQ for 15 years -

I personally prefer the 5 acre lots.

a) It will be city people that will purchase them causing no strain on the schools
b) The parcels will not all sell at once - it will occur over time.
c) Good opportunity ...more
By Summer Resident (208), Southampton N.Y. on Nov 11, 17 2:58 PM
Are you sure you understand the proposed application? The PDD and it’s golf course includes dwelling that accommodates City “summer residents” and are private. There are no block parties. A golf course and private club requires a great deal of support services and goods that have a positive influence on local economies. Especially jobs that are not included in a subdivision. All of the environmental attributes and community benefits are only going to happen under the mixed use ...more
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 11, 17 6:59 PM
a) when I mentioned block party I was referring to their event lawn as part of their subdivision poker move

b) As far as you claiming that a golf course benefits and supports - please dont give me that BS... EQ is not a depressed and or blighted area which needs some sort of development to turn things around.

C) EQ is fine place as it is. It character does not need to be altered.
By Summer Resident (208), Southampton Town, NY on Nov 11, 17 7:54 PM
2 members liked this comment
Well Summer I disagreed. EQ has been struggling. I lived it for 15 years full time; school tax pressure and Main Street businesses are in bad shape from November to May. The GC seasonal resort won’t solve all of it; but bolster the economy much more than another subdivision that provides nothing but another burden on municipal services.
Only the PDD offers shellfish restoration, STP for the school, capital to upgrade bayfront sanitary systems,and local scholarships. Will you trade these ...more
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 12, 17 6:42 AM
... how will you help the November-May economy in EQ when the place will be shut down and your jet setting clientele off to warmer climates? Surely, they're not gonna be patronizing restaurants and shopping on Main St in the off season. Your "full time seasonal employees"will be watching what they spend since their unemployment benefit checks will only take them so far.
By William Rodney (461), southampton on Nov 12, 17 9:05 AM
I too disagree, Summer. Forty years ago this week I moved into a house I had built in East Quogue. My kids started kindergarten in EQ and finished sixth grade there. I have seen East Quogue go through good times and bad. I have seen it thrive and I have seen it stagnate and decline. Now some developers arrive with the vision that has been sorely lacking among our elected officials and people throw up roadblocks, roadblocks stopping the area from moving forward.

The location is about ...more
By VOS (989), WHB on Nov 12, 17 9:29 AM
3 members liked this comment
During the off season is when resort community- golf facilities turn full attention to upgrades, repairs and maintenance. I said the project wouldn’t solve all the economic issues of EQ. What’s your big plan ? Add more kids to the school? Lose the farm stand and open space across from 7-11? Leave the legacy nitrogen in the groundwater ? Not upgrade residential sanitary systems or build the school a STP- ? Yea, you’re a wealth of ideas for improving EQ. Same Subdivisions that got ...more
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 12, 17 11:40 AM
1 member liked this comment
... EQ is not in a mess. You are in a mess, a big one.
By William Rodney (461), southampton on Nov 12, 17 12:42 PM
Wow, someone went to the presidential school of comebacks.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 12, 17 12:49 PM
1 member liked this comment
EQ is a fine place...but it will be altered either AOR or via PDD. There is no third choice, ie. stay the same. Change is coming. Choose your poison
By bb (721), Hampton Bays on Nov 15, 17 10:55 PM
Thank you Summer Resident for your input and summary. As a business person, I can state that successful corporations are interested in one thing ... the bottom line. If DLC is blocked from building a massive luxury golf complex, they will not build 137, hard to sell, houses. Nor would they be able to easily sell this land to another development company to build such houses. (No development company will want to buy into expensive legal suits with the hope of maybe making money, down the road, with ...more
By SpeedRacer (61), Southampton on Nov 11, 17 8:12 PM
So when they sell the approved subdivision plan to the lowest bidder and the cookie cutter neighborhood goes up, what then?

It's like you really think they're just going to hold on to the land after the golf course gets turned down.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 11, 17 9:41 PM
1 member liked this comment
Well Speed, I’m not agreeing with you at all. You’re obviously a latecomer to the party here and a bit of a story teller; as in “massive luxury golf complex” and “expensive legal suits.” The proposed PDD is NOT an “environmentally dangerous Luxury Golf Complex.”
What I am afraid of are people who post reckless and exaggerated statements about this project to infuse public mistrust in the application. I’m sure whatever business success you’ve ...more
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 12, 17 7:23 AM
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Fore1gnBornHB ... When are you going to stop with all your Hissey scare tactics? In the Town of Southampton we have a thing called a Zoning Board and we have Courts of Law to make sure Bullies are taken care of Legally.

DLC has several options: 1. They can sit with the land hoping one day, in the distant future, they can file for their Golf Complex once again. 2. They can sell the land to the Town at the current market value or possibly higher. 3.They can build 5 acre lot houses and sell ...more
By SpeedRacer (61), Southampton on Nov 11, 17 10:22 PM
What scare tactics? I don't really care if EQ has a golf course or 137 new homes, I don't live there, it just seems like you think that "nothing" is still an option.

Or that they can't find someone who wants to buy the land and build the houses.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 11, 17 10:45 PM
Maybe we should put an Eruv around the site. Then all the pro-development Hissy Fitters will turn against this plan to inject massive amounts of fertilizer into our drinking water.
By dfree (316), hampton bays on Nov 12, 17 8:13 AM
Well now that you have laid you cards on the table, you should probably take note that those in favor of the Hills development have made it clear that they are the people open to new ideas. They, and Discovery have shown that breaking the mold can be significantly beneficial to the community.

On the other hand, those refusing to open their eyes, ears and minds to new opportunities will stifle any chance at sorely needed improvement. Your narrow minded viewpoint, while not surprising, ...more
By VOS (989), WHB on Nov 12, 17 9:41 AM
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development is not "improvement"
By bigfresh (2984), north sea on Nov 12, 17 11:16 AM
BF, you and I see eye to eye on more things then not... but in this case its not just development, it is the right kind of growth for the community. Its not like the King Kullen shopping center on CR 39. This golf course is what the master plan dictated and DLC has jumped through all the right hoops and followed the PDD to the letter. At there own cost they have proven the groundwater will be both protected and monitored. Something is going to be built and it seems to me a resort golf course project ...more
By joe hampton (2906), The Hamptons on Nov 12, 17 1:51 PM
5 ACRE ZONING, 5 ACRES, that's a lot o land folks and does not lend itself to a "cookie cutter development". I am quite skeptical that this land will be built out in the foreseeable future.
By bigfresh (2984), north sea on Nov 12, 17 8:21 AM
But will they find someone who wants to build it? I don't doubt it

Shoddy McMansions will go up and worst case scenario we'll be talking about the white elephants up the block for the next 30 years.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 12, 17 9:39 AM
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Why r u involving yourself - you say u don't live here.We need to protect our water.DLC should find an environmentally safer place for a golf course. I have nothing against golf courses, just against risking our already threatened drinking water and bays, wildlife and pine barrens.
By Taz (285), East Quogue on Nov 12, 17 12:12 PM
Is there some kind of rule that if I don't live in EQ I can't comment on The Hills?

Frankly, if I could I'd take the development off your hands altogether and plop it down behind Red Creek park.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 12, 17 12:29 PM
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Tired, what ever is legal is fine, no variances. Town board has their heads in the sand, till after elections.
Have the State buy it and it goes off the tax roles.
By knitter (870), Southampton on Nov 12, 17 10:41 AM
By what method do you force the owners to sell it to the State?
By bb (721), Hampton Bays on Nov 15, 17 11:00 PM
The truth is the elected officials are turning their backs on the Town Comp Plan and EQ Hamlet Study that specifically recommends this location be developed exactly as DLC has proposed. What’s so evident is the Town Board offers no alternative recommendations, land use goals or vision for theHamlet of EQ. None of the elected vocal opponents (Lofstad, Bouvier and Schiavoni) have presented or offered any alternative or suggestions for improving the Hills PDD or EQ.Yet they are the very people ...more
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 12, 17 11:54 AM
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"elected officials" being the operative phrase. The people have spoken -- we want to preserve the property and avoid having massive amounts of fertilizer injected into our drinking water.
By dfree (316), hampton bays on Nov 12, 17 12:13 PM
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So then you better lobby the town to raise their offer because SOMETHING is going to be built.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 12, 17 12:31 PM
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You’re not preserving the poperty it’s being developed. First the purchase of the property has been off the table for sometime-the Town is limited by law on how much it can offer, and the seller has to be willing and able to sell. Pretty much a dead duck.
The Hills PDD is REMOVING nitrogen from the groundwater not injecting it. The people spoke when the EQ Hamlet Study and GEIS was adopted- elected officials are to follow it or involve the community in an Update. That’s what ...more
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 12, 17 1:00 PM
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Regardless of the Town's offer, DLC has already proven their greed cannot be sated.

They want the development profits. They don't care about us or our drinking water.
By Mr. Z (9462), North Sea on Nov 12, 17 1:11 PM
The people have spoken ? This was not the only reason people vote? a bit egocentric there dfree.

Support of the hills (or lack of support) is not the only reason to vote for a candidate. Just b/c residents voted for candidates who happen to support the hills does not show that all of these people are in favor of the hills.



By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (398), southampton on Nov 10, 17 9:03 AM
Nov 12, 17 1:29 PM appended by Erin 27 E
typical democrats , now they want to forget statements work both ways
By Erin 27 E (881), hampton bays on Nov 12, 17 1:29 PM
mr z as usual this is a ideological issue for you. please stay in north sea for this discussion. it effects our local economy not yours! the drinking water debate has been addressed, but this was never about drinking water for most people against this wonderful project, its about keeping a strangle hold on mayberry.
By Erin 27 E (881), hampton bays on Nov 12, 17 1:36 PM
1 member liked this comment
We live on this island too, in case you missed it little miss Mayberry. You might be more credible if you could use the word "xenophobia" properly by definition and in context.

There are those who think that our bays and estuaries are not worth the risk compared to building what will bring the total golf course/club on Long Island to well over 90. Apparently, one would think we already have plenty. This is about more than your private little world. There are many of us who fish and ...more
By Mr. Z (9462), North Sea on Nov 12, 17 4:31 PM
Mr. Z, if this property was so detrimental to our drinking water why was it for sale? The property was for sale and however it was developed it was going to effect the town and water.

Again with the greed. It's a laughable argument. People strive to succeed. When they do they are greedy.
By bb (721), Hampton Bays on Nov 17, 17 11:10 AM
Perhaps you've missed how our home has been exploited for obscene amounts of profit in the last thirty years or so.

Any chemicals laid on the ground, (like PFCs) eventually make it to the groundwater.

The airport was for sale once too. Weak, low information argument.
By Mr. Z (9462), North Sea on Nov 19, 17 1:23 PM
Anyone who thinks the original plan for DLC would keep kids out of EQ schools hasn’t been paying attention. At other “restricted” condo and house developments covenants were in place to keep kids out of the schools. Once the homes or condos don’t sell....the covenants are lifted. Just look to Quogue Village for the perfect and local example of this....
By G (303), Southampton on Nov 12, 17 1:54 PM
If you are only concerned about viewing these potential new students as cattle G, don't worry so much. Children of a home like this would be expected to be well mannered and welcome addition. Statistically they would come from a household of 1.3 children who speak the language play an instrument and would not be a drain on the system.
By joe hampton (2906), The Hamptons on Nov 12, 17 2:08 PM
Did you ever notice, under all these pieces on The Hills, that there are more people posting in opposition to the project, but still there’s usually about an equal number of posts for and against the project?

How come? It’s because Hills boosters like Mark Hissey and Lion and VOS put up so many more comments than anyone else that the number of their pro posts about balances all the con posts by all those other people. (Please don’t anyone tell me Mark Hissey hasn’t ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1742), Quiogue on Nov 12, 17 2:02 PM
I actually didn't notice, would you list the proponents and opponents for us?

I think they're a lot closer in numbers than you're making it sound.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 12, 17 2:21 PM
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Maybe people just don't get your opposition to something they see as a wonderful opportunity for the town. You talk about working something like it was your job George ? Seems to me you have personally done your best to block this project from happening at all costs, what is you "skin" in the game?

Sorry but it is no longer the one traffic light town you remember , a town where the FD controlled the game from the shadows and the local Barney Fife only gives out tickets to people he did ...more
By 27dan (2120), Shinnecock Hills on Nov 12, 17 2:30 PM
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Ridiculous remarks by Turkey Bridge helps drive me to post. There is an ignorance and arrogance around the Town Board, that needs to be questioned and a suspected schedule of reviews and hearings placed in orbit around the Election is suspect. Let’s not forget about posting statements of truth and facts, ol boy. After all if readers believed the warped interpretation you’ve jotted down; most would believe the PDD was a repository for defective nuclear warheads. Nope Ol boy, your endless ...more
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 12, 17 3:44 PM
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Lion old buddy, as William stated, "you protest to much" and while I don't always agree with Turkey Bridge ... You and your band of merry writers sure do sound like Hissey and Company. The voters of the Town of Southampton have said "NO" to The Hills PDD. So lets stop the personal attacks on the people who you don't agree with and come up with a plan that we can all live with or move on. Mr. Hissey can always find another project with another company, he has done so, many times in the past (see ...more
By SpeedRacer (61), Southampton on Nov 12, 17 5:00 PM
"Come up with a plan that we can all live with" is hopeful but removed from reality. DLC has an incentive to work with the locals to achieve its PDD, but building as of right leaves the town without a carrot to hold out.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 12, 17 5:36 PM
Speed,oh yes I believe the fellow who advocated for Haveymer’s write in as Town supervisor. How’d the Town of Southampton weigh in on that recommendation? Turkey Bridge rarely provides any factual comments on the proposed application. If you re-read his recent post he questioned the purpose of my posts. “Stop personal attacks” I submit was directed at your pal. There was no vote ever taken on the Hills within the town of Southampton- and once again distortion of such falsehoods ...more
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 12, 17 5:13 PM
Let me just repeat the final sentence of my above post: "Show me how any opponent of The Hills will make a dime if the PDD is turned down, and I'll take this back, but I don't think anyone can."

So far no one has made that showing. There's been some fake outrage, some of the usual abuse of Turkey Bridge, and some self-righteous breast beating, but not an iota of fact, or even persuasive speculation, to demonstrate how anyone in the world would benefit materially from The Hills going down. ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1742), Quiogue on Nov 12, 17 6:29 PM
Why do you need to see proof opponents will benefit from the PDD going down?

The WHOLE POINT is that The Hills would bring economic benefit for everyone.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 12, 17 7:25 PM
No, Turkey, it's time for you to "put up or shut up!"

You claim I am among those who "put up so many more comments than anyone else" but don't prove anything. In fact, you bag of wind, a quick count of posts regarding the Hills since the beginning of the year shows you have made 115 comments while I have made 64. That is a FACT! You. Are. A. LIAR!

I suppose you have been lying down with your political dogs for so long you believe everyone has fleas. Some people actually ...more
By VOS (989), WHB on Nov 13, 17 12:27 AM
VOS, I’ve no idea who you are, and respect your anonymity. I do appreciate your response to Turkey Bridge and his persistent and personal attack on anyone posting facts and truths about the Hills. Odd how he dismisses Lofstad’s return to office and Schiavoni’s future spot on the TB both from his platform in oopposition to the Hills, as not beneficial to thier income and health benefits or his own “political profiteering.” As stated before, I’ve no confidence ...more
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 13, 17 4:50 AM
VOS, you still haven't answered my challenge, because you haven't shown how any Hills opponent would benefit from the defeat of the proposal. To the outrage, abuse and breast beating I mentioned above, you've added name calling, but that's as far as your reply goes.

I do wish to respond to one item, however. You refer to my "life in the sewer of politics." You don't know anything about my life, sir. I did not become active in politics at any level until nine years ago when I retired. ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1742), Quiogue on Nov 13, 17 10:55 AM
George Lynch a/k/a Turkey Bridge, we do know about your life in politics. The Political Hacks in Hampton Bays used the "anti-Trump" "anti-development" "anti fact based decision making" sentiment to win the election. They hopefully din't put the final nail in the coffin of Hampton Bays. Please don't embarrass yourself by calling anything credible about the campaign you ran. Shame on those in Hampton Bays and East Quogue that perpetrated the fraud from the HBCA to the EQCA to the Democratic ...more
By HB Proud (748), Hampton Bays on Nov 13, 17 11:17 AM
That's it? That's all you have? repeating a strawman of your own concoction? I made no such charges and have no obligation to refute them. You, on the other hand, have made serious charges. Rather than your fake indignation, why not simply back up your charges of falsifying information, taking payment from Discovery and counting posts?

Because you can't. I don't care what you did or where you lived before taking up the ignoble game of politics. You have called me a liar in more ...more
By VOS (989), WHB on Nov 13, 17 1:07 PM
Wait, so if I'm pro-hills I should be expecting a check from DLC? I guess I shouldn't hold my breath, god forbid I wind up like Turkey.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 13, 17 1:12 PM
Oh- gee Turkey Bridge I mis read your question of who benefits from DEFEATING the Hills; not simply opposing it. That’s simple. Nobody. Certainly not the EQ schools district. No. Not the SCWA they won’t see that new well field. Not the EQ Fire District, they won’t have anything to gain. Not the folks working for groundwater quality- they inherit the legacy nitrogen and can add future nitrogen loading even from the alternative systems and no STP for the school... so zero there. ...more
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 13, 17 3:38 PM
Concur.
By Draggerman (668), Southampton on Nov 13, 17 9:28 PM
Draggerman, appreciate your agreement. I’m sure we’re all waiting for Turkey to spin my reply or divert the exchange to some other topic. His typical strategies.
Here’s a challenge for Turkey Bridge-can YOU identify who benefits from defeating the Hills; and do you the guts to admit you’re wrong ?
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 14, 17 6:17 AM
Lion, LOVED your post. I supported three principled candidates and two were VICTORIOUS. The total cost to me was $0. Hissey, DLC and all you guys supported other candidates, at a cost of Tens of Thousands of Dollars.(Full Page Advertisements, Mailers, Free Food etc.) What was the result... You got Jay Schneiderman, who you already had.
If you call that loosing, I'm OK with it.
By SpeedRacer (61), Southampton on Nov 12, 17 6:54 PM
Speed, I don’t invest in politicians, so don’t include me in the “you guys.” You’re obviously posting as a “political plant” acting as cheerleader for your candidates. As I’ve posted frequently my purpose here is to provide the readers with factual information so an informed public has a better understanding of the project and its environmental impacts. I’ll tell you again I have no confidence in the Town Board; irrespective of their political ...more
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 13, 17 5:12 AM
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This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By dfree (316), hampton bays on Nov 13, 17 5:14 AM
What’s the name of the new governor of VA? I’ve already forgotten his name.
By even flow (496), East Hampton on Nov 13, 17 7:11 AM
1 member liked this comment
Gillespie is the guy from VA, Doug Jones is the one in Alabama running against the accused pedophile.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 13, 17 7:35 AM
Most people were lukewarm on Roy Moore until the coordinated attack. Now he’s is 10 points up and headed to victory

The leftist corporate owned media is using the same tactic on Roy Moore that put Trump into the White House while hoping for a different result with Moore.

There a name for that.
By even flow (496), East Hampton on Nov 13, 17 7:41 AM
1 member liked this comment
So the 30+ people they interviewed all coordinated the story?

And his former colleagues who say his dating teenage girls was common knowledge are all in on it too?

Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt the people of Alabama will go to the polls in droves for an accused child molester, since voting for despicable human beings who wrap themselves in faux religious righteousness is par for the course, but to dismiss the allegations outright is disgusting.

What if it was your ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 13, 17 8:05 AM
Highhatsize defends accused closet pedo Jay Sears actions, It did not seem to boost his popularity 10 points
By They call me (2143), southampton on Nov 13, 17 12:50 PM
Continued development of the East End is inevitable. Plan accordingly and develop the infrastructure for it!
By Mouthampton (349), Southampton on Nov 13, 17 10:33 AM
Unfortunately, the main arteries are as wide as they can conceivably get in many places. Unless of course you'd like to tear up the Water Mill Green, move all the buildings on the south side south, and pave over Warren's front stoop for highway lanes...
By Mr. Z (9462), North Sea on Nov 13, 17 9:47 PM
We have been through this countless times, you are not dumb so one must conclude you are closed minded as they come.

Express lane the RR tracks with stops in HB / Bridge / Amagansett

Don't forget to pretend you did not see this!
By Undocumented Democrat (1517), southampton on Nov 16, 17 2:36 PM
If DLC does an "as of right" subdivision, they should adhere to the same environmental standards as the pdd, using advanced sewage treatment etc. This would become a planning issue, and DLC has stated that they want to be good stewards of the environment. So any development should have the same set of standards regardless of PDD, as of right, golf course model, single family homes, etc. DLC shouldn't relax these standards under any model.
By Craigcat (164), Speonk on Nov 13, 17 12:14 PM
1 member liked this comment
Maybe they "should" but what incentive do they have to do so as a business?

The point of businesses is to make money, and in exchange for the PDD they were willing to make concessions to mollify opposition.

With "as of right" development, why would they purposely lower their profit margin to achieve an environmental standard not required by law?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 13, 17 12:18 PM
2 members liked this comment
Because the point of business is to make money. Potential buyers will know all about this file given one click of the google machine. I'd imagine any allure to moving there would be in part tied to the environment. Knowing that, a builder wanting to market his product would be wise to do whatever possible to protect that environment under any model. The fragility of that location is well documented. Educated buyers will want to know why his or her home comes with a lower set of environmental safeguards. ...more
By Craigcat (164), Speonk on Nov 13, 17 12:40 PM
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If they are not allowed to build the golf course they have no incentive to stick to the agreed strict environmental standards as well as future monitoring.

If you spite them by blocking what they have worked so hard for why would they give you any more than they are required to. I suspect spite is a two way street.

You should reconsider your position or you will force more harm to the environment than good! Sorry some of you do not like it, but those unfortunately... are the ...more
By joe hampton (2906), The Hamptons on Nov 13, 17 12:46 PM
I didn't offer a position, Joe. I'm just questioning the assumed absolutes on this, ie. PDD = environmental protections vs. As of Right = limited protections. I don't think the absolutes are applicable here.
If the answer is spite, then DLC shouldn't be allowed to develop doghouses in SH town.
If the answer is economics, then all sides have room to talk.
By Craigcat (164), Speonk on Nov 13, 17 12:53 PM
mr cat respectfuly, "If the answer is spite, then DLC shouldn't be allowed to develop doghouses in SH town"

but they can .
By Erin 27 E (881), hampton bays on Nov 13, 17 12:55 PM
It's very clear not everyone here has ran a business.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 13, 17 1:03 PM
I'm a small business owner. Again, the point being we are presented with absolutes, and I don't buy the idea of environmental protections being exclusive to only one model, regardless of how you may feel about the Hills pdd application.
So far the answers have been "spite" and "the point of business is to make money."
By Craigcat (164), Speonk on Nov 13, 17 1:31 PM
I don't understand. The environmental protections are being offered by DLC in exchange for the PDD, they're not required by law.

Why would they meet higher standards than minimally required, at their own cost, for as-of-right development?

The town would get laughed out of court if they tried to impose such requirements ex post facto.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 13, 17 1:37 PM
2 members liked this comment
I didn't say the town would impose those requirements. So let's look at it 2 ways assuming the pdd is denied:
DLC builds 130 homes with traditional septic using the minimum environmental standards.
DLC builds 130 homes using advanced sewage treatment to reduce nitrogen loading.
As a buyer who has researched the area, which is more appealing? To your point, what are you willing to pay to preserve the environment and your investment?
By Craigcat (164), Speonk on Nov 13, 17 1:55 PM
Considering the prices these homes would go for, I'm out in either case.

In any event, if it's not achieved via a lawsuit, who would prompt their decision to develop with greater environmental standards?

Are you hoping they'd do it on their own in hope of greater profit margin down the line? Is there any indication they'd be willing to do that?

Maybe the town should just ask nicely?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 13, 17 2:10 PM
So in this case DLC's concern for the environment goes as far as their profit margin. Any as of right model would have to go through planning. That would be a good place to ask nicely.
Thanks for the debate.
By Craigcat (164), Speonk on Nov 13, 17 2:59 PM
So in your mind, what is DLC's response when the Town says: "hey, remember all that nitrogen remediation you were willing to do for a PDD? How about you do that for the subdivision too?"

Personally, I'd expect a middle finger.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 13, 17 3:08 PM
I expect any reputable developer to take a consistent approach to protecting an environmentally fragile area regardless of the zoning mechanisms that have been approved. A middle finger response isn't limited just to the town board, as all of us will have to live with the results. That includes everyone that supported The Hills PDD as well. We live on an island - we share the same water.
By Craigcat (164), Speonk on Nov 13, 17 3:25 PM
Do you have any basis for that exception?

Mine is that, in the absence of quid pro quo, the developer has zero incentive to exceed minimum standards at their own cost. Maybe there's something else we could offer them? I understand you mentioned a greater profit margin, but unless you have the buyers lined up...

Truth be told, I would fully expect to be cast aside with prejudice in favor of greener pastures if the PDD is turned down. They care about us and our water table only insofar ...more
Nov 13, 17 3:36 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
*Expectation
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 13, 17 3:36 PM
I think golf courses are the opposite of smart growth. I guess golf courses and cemeteries are probably the worst for land use. Land is not one of our greatest resources out here. Using 600 acres for what amounts to be a private club makes zero sense to me. Now we can talk about the differences between these 2 models for hours, and we'd both make a lot of very good points. I don't think we've seen what the maximum benefit truly is. We've been presented 2 models from Discovery. The as of right model ...more
By Craigcat (164), Speonk on Nov 13, 17 3:49 PM
1 member liked this comment
To answer your question directly: I'd like to see part of the land purchased with CPF, and the remainder built with single family, some affordable (middle income) models, and perhaps a 55+ segment. Ideally clustered to maximize the benefits of advanced sewage treatment.
Pie in the sky? Maybe.
By Craigcat (164), Speonk on Nov 13, 17 3:54 PM
1 member liked this comment
My understanding was that an offer was already made and turned down.

It definitely feels like an ultimatum by DLC, but a PDD is the only carrot held by the Town.

Once that ship leaves port, DLC is left holding all the cards (land ownership and as-of-right zoning). I think that would inevitably end, after the town is milked for lots of legal fees, in a McMansion subdivision.

But in truth that's a prediction and many things can change along the way.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 13, 17 4:02 PM
Yes, a CPF offer was declined. At the time you didn't have a willing seller. Could that change if the PDD is denied? Maybe. Is there a market over there for McMansions? I don't think so. So all of these factors start to creep in and maybe smart businessmen start looking for a profitable compromise.
Not unlike you, that's a prediction. Actually it's more of a hope.
By Craigcat (164), Speonk on Nov 13, 17 4:31 PM
1 member liked this comment
I certainly believe a sucker is born every minute, and in this case it'd be suckers looking for newly built summer homes in the Hamptons.

Based on the amenities proposed and lot sizes I don't share folks' fears of a spike in the school district populations from the kind of people who would move in, nor do I think the environmental impact would be severe from the part time residents.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 13, 17 5:36 PM
1 member liked this comment
Craig haven't you people just spent a year telling us how DLC is NOT a "reputable developer" ? Now you say "I expect any reputable developer to take a consistent approach to protecting an environmentally fragile area regardless of the zoning mechanisms that have been approved ????? " Sorry but WTH are you talking about anyway? They are going to build without any additional cost, then the buyer is going to buy ( not weighing the septic system debate at all ), then they will hire ABC lawn company, ...more
By Undocumented Democrat (1517), southampton on Nov 13, 17 5:57 PM
Actually no, I've never said anything even close to that. I'm questioning the argument of absolutes. Why aren't you? I love Sesame Street though.
By Craigcat (164), Speonk on Nov 13, 17 6:07 PM
In my opinion the time for questioning anything other than the lesser of two evils is at hand.

The golf course is clearly a better option than more density, higher school taxes and unchecked nitrogen runoff

What do you think Councilwoman Lofstad ?
By 27dan (2120), Shinnecock Hills on Nov 13, 17 6:17 PM
And they’d be right in flipping you off. The thing I love most about NIMBY BANANAS is, they don’t get business. Wake up.
By Draggerman (668), Southampton on Nov 13, 17 9:33 PM
That may very well be the case. The thing is that narrative is being pushed by the developer, and we already know that the pdd application has likely failed. So according to DLC, the only alternative is a 137 home subdivision with traditional septic. That's it - no other solution, no other model.
I think people are mistaking my point with some kind of anti-Hills sentiment. That's incorrect. I just don't buy this black and white notion of if it's not the pdd, then it HAS to be this other model. ...more
Nov 14, 17 10:08 AM appended by Craigcat
Replying to 27Dan
By Craigcat (164), Speonk on Nov 14, 17 10:08 AM
1 member liked this comment
I appreciate that sentiment Craig, but it relies on the premise that DLC doesn't intend, or can be convinced not to follow through on their ultimatum.

How do we achieve that?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 14, 17 3:13 PM
2 members liked this comment
I guess that will be between the town and the developer if the pdd is shot down. I've dealt with this town board. Contrary to what we read in many of the posts on this site, they are actually thoughtful people trying to do the right thing. My guess, and this is nothing more than a guess, is if the pdd fails this somehow doesn't end with 137 homes and cesspools pumping nitrogen.
By Craigcat (164), Speonk on Nov 14, 17 8:13 PM
1 member liked this comment
I guess you should have purchased the property then. Had you, you could see what ever you wanted within Southampton Town zoning. Since you didn't all you can do is dream. Doesn't make it happen.

By bb (721), Hampton Bays on Nov 15, 17 11:14 PM
so

if your last name is clinton or if
you contributed to clinton or it
you advised clinton or if you
voted for clinton....

you're either a serial rapist, a sexual predator or you condone both and actively work to cover it up.

lovely.
By SlimeAlive (627), Southampton on Nov 13, 17 12:56 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 13, 17 1:08 PM
How is this relevant to the article?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 13, 17 1:47 PM
Maybe it's just me, but anyone who has nearly 10,000 comments on 27east needs to really reevaluate their lives. Wow. Pretty depressing.
By getalife (53), Southampton on Nov 13, 17 2:08 PM
People spend six hours a day looking at a screen and nobody bats an eye but if they decide to read and write for six hours a day everyone loses their minds.
Nov 13, 17 2:13 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Entertainment is in the eye of the beholder.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (546), HAMPTON BAYS on Nov 13, 17 2:13 PM
Mr. Z (9436), North Sea on Nov 12, 17 4:31 PM
Nov 13, 17 6:06 PM appended by Undocumented Democrat
Who cares what you think anyway you think Bender is a nice person some judge of character you turned out to be . / "Let's start a poll - who is more pathetic - Jay Schneiderman or Anna? I'll leave Brad and Bridget out of it since they seem like nice people. Actually forget it, I won't wind up reading the results anyway. " Nov 14, 11 5:20 PM
By Undocumented Democrat (1517), southampton on Nov 13, 17 6:06 PM
Snap its true,

I'll leave Brad and Bridget out of it since they seem like nice people. Actually forget it, I won't wind up reading the results anyway. " By getalife Nov 14, 11 5:20 PM

funny UD don't worry getalife, i thought Brad was a nice guy at one time also.

By local 84 (300), riverhead on Nov 13, 17 6:35 PM
Well, things do add up after almost nine years...
Nov 13, 17 9:49 PM appended by Mr. Z
Just like the thousands of posts and "Likes" volunteering at "Geeking 'till it MHz"...
By Mr. Z (9462), North Sea on Nov 13, 17 9:49 PM
Back to the ATH disaster movie for a minute - she did not follow PDDs to the letter of the law. She was all set to rob the restricted trust set aside from the Sebonac PDD for historic preservation so she could use that $500,000 to buy the Katie Press property adjacent to Mr. Morrow's ill-fated PDD proposal for Tuckahoe Center, paving the way for contiguous for more an even more ridiculous project. Nancy Graboski put an end to that maneuver and prevented her from absconding with the Trust's monies. ...more
By kvetch (10), Southold on Nov 14, 17 10:04 AM
As an East Quogue resident I'm not understanding the resistance here. Would we prefer an as of right development without any favorable considerations to the environment, community, and the school district? Easy to say we want the land to stay unspoiled- except that DLC does not want to sell the land back.

The gamble here is that they won't develop. Somebody will- and when they do- are we prepared to pay even higher taxes and experience devaluation of our Real Estate from increased inventory ...more
By EastEnder3 (7), East Quogue on Nov 14, 17 2:15 PM
Turkey Bridge- I alert you to please go back to your earlier post where you challenge me as to who benefits by defeating the Hills- I responded. it’s imbedded “there”. Just wouldn’t want you to overlook something- like the truth.
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 15, 17 5:05 AM
Are we going down the rabbit hole here, or what? Lion, I maintain that no one benefits materially or financially by the defeat of The Hills, and by contrast, some people will benefit in that way from The Hills being built, and that says something important about the relative credibility of the two sides.

You respond with: "Here's a challenge for Turkey Bridge -- can YOU identify who benefits from defeating The Hills . .?" The answer is of course not, not in the financial sense; that's ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1742), Quiogue on Nov 15, 17 9:10 PM
Turkey, your response is deplorable. I clearly listed who looses by failing to pass the PDD: emergency responders, water quality protection and remediation efforts, EQ school district and its taxpayers, SCWA, etc. You responded by saying, “you lost the election..” Gloating or just exposing your own motives and personal benefits to defeating the Hills. That screams to your credibility- which is down a rabbit hole ( located in south end of a north bound rabbit). II didn’t run for ...more
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 16, 17 4:54 AM
The NIMBY talk above is exactly why I moved and raised my family here in SC and VA. Every year you strangle development and the economy it becomes harder to live on LI. I was ready to return and work as a professional after college. I saw the need to commute into Nassau or NYC as well as housing prices in the early 90's and just said there has to be another way. Family ties are only good for so long and high taxes cannot be tolerated once they get too high. Almost all of us have moved now and ...more
By Baymen87 (99), Lugoff, SC on Nov 15, 17 11:00 AM
Well said!
By Mouthampton (349), Southampton on Nov 15, 17 11:13 AM
you should pick your self up by the bootstraps and work harder. i hear that in the USA your fortune solely depends on your work ethic.
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (401), southampton on Nov 15, 17 12:18 PM
2 members liked this comment
Glad to see that logic has finally sunk in!
By bigfresh (2984), north sea on Nov 16, 17 5:53 PM
He was being facetious.

What a maroon...
By Mr. Z (9462), North Sea on Nov 19, 17 1:27 PM
HB Proud, up above there (Nov. 13, 11:17 AM), you really, really pulled it out of thin air. I normally ignore your nonsense, your untruths, and your self-defeating obsession with the imagined plight of Hampton Bays, but I can't overlook this one. You actually had the gall to call Tommy John Schiavoni "a 'limousine liberal' from Sag Harbor." This is a teacher for 30-plus years, a licensed plumber, and the son and grandson of plumbers. This profile is about as far from a limousine liberal as you ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1742), Quiogue on Nov 16, 17 10:39 AM
Hey TB, i do understand the preservation of farm views to the ocean, but this is not an ocean view! This is the perfect place for a golf coarse, elevated, backed up to the Pine Barons. This is not about ground water, if it was the golf course is a far better choice than the as of right homes.

So what is it about ? I have yet to see an answer to that question ?
By Undocumented Democrat (1517), southampton on Nov 16, 17 12:02 PM
1 member liked this comment
They like it the way it is, they are Amish like and want to keep it all to themselves! most of the locals have never even been to NYC. The people under 40 are fed up with the place thats why they move away. very few jobs, long winters with no customers, nothing to do, half the time we don't even have decent cell phone reception. now we have a chance at something nice and all the gray hairs are trying to block it! wake up already this town needs a infusion.
By Erin 27 E (881), hampton bays on Nov 16, 17 12:32 PM
Peace and quiet during the winter, plenty of jobs if you're willing to actually WORK, We live in a special place full of natural beauty and outdoor activities , lots to do. Crappy cell service? who cares. A golf course on top of our sole source aquifer does not address any of your whiny concerns.
By bigfresh (2984), north sea on Nov 16, 17 6:09 PM
blah blah blah

Perhaps you should read Henry Hildreth's interview over at NewsDay.
By Mr. Z (9462), North Sea on Nov 16, 17 6:25 PM
mr. big, husband and I own a local store and i take care of two kids under 5 years old. i also work nights and weekends.

i don't appreciate you calling me a whiner, you come across as a tad bit nasty sometimes.

please understand it just gets extremely boring here on the EQ/ HB border during the off season. there is not much for a young couple who are trying to stay local and not move away from there family's to do. some new faces with some $ in there pocket coming through town ...more
By Erin 27 E (881), hampton bays on Nov 16, 17 7:29 PM
oh snapp
By local 84 (300), riverhead on Nov 16, 17 7:41 PM
BigFresh,

The point that apparently is not transparent to some s that DLC owns the Land. The have a right to develop- in fact they have a right to develop 137 units, and the Parloto property can be developed into another 30+ units. There are no benefits to the environment, the Village or the School district if the Board over plays its hand.

Water is our most valuable resource- we agree, however this proposition is the best one for this site. It will be developed, this is not a ...more
By EastEnder3 (7), East Quogue on Nov 17, 17 7:09 AM
1 member liked this comment
TB, first of all I use the word blight in Hampton Bays not plight of the Hampton Bays people. You certainly have the spin down, Geroge. You, like John Bourier thinks is is all myths, understatements and only believe that human dignity is warranted to those you chose - hence "limousine liberals". You all including Tommy John see nothing wrong in Hampton Bays because you don't live here. Tommy John is also on the Sag Harbor School Board and lives in Sag Harbor - not once did he offer to share ...more
By HB Proud (748), Hampton Bays on Nov 16, 17 12:16 PM
1 member liked this comment
Incorporate already !
By joe hampton (2906), The Hamptons on Nov 16, 17 12:21 PM
Don't dare question the validity and motives of DLC's claim that the only 2 models available are the golf course PDD and the 137 unit as of right concept with traditional septic.
Apparently, to question this builder on this particular file is akin to questioning the bible, and those who do question it clearly have lost their minds.
In the future it might be best for us to stop asking "why" and examining other possibilities. After all, if a developer says something, it must be true.
Apparently ...more
By Craigcat (164), Speonk on Nov 17, 17 12:10 PM
2 members liked this comment
Craigcat, this is one of the best comments I've seen among the hundreds (thousands?) on 27east regarding this topic. Why, indeed can other possibilities not be examined? I'd say that's because this is the developer's big Achilles heel and they're frantic to keep it out of the debate (and doing a pretty good job of that, alas.)

You know, HB Proud, putting aside all your mindless abuse of me and others, joe hampton may have a point. Historically, incorporation has been the remedy of choice ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1742), Quiogue on Nov 17, 17 3:25 PM
1 member liked this comment
C-cat, you need to do more research. The 137 units as of right subdivision (and perhaps add to it, the 40 units from the Parloto piece) are NOT proposed with traditional septic systems but with the (new and improved) individual alternative systems. Yet the AOR produces more nitrogen loading than the PDD.
The AOR doesn’t need to meet any special conditions as does the PDD. It’s a subdivision that’s already been submitted to the Planning Board NOT the Town Board and the application ...more
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 17, 17 4:25 PM
1 member liked this comment
Lion - I don't know all of the specifics of the new application. I do know that the county is mandating the improved systems. I also know that at certain flow rates developers have to use sewage treatment systems. That said, I think you are missing my point. Working under the premise that the PDD application will likely fail, we may have to shift to this new 137 model. I've seen starting points with large developments and they rarely end up the way they are initially proposed. So with all due respect, ...more
By Craigcat (164), Speonk on Nov 17, 17 5:32 PM
1 member liked this comment
But I'll always question and validate things that are proposed as absolutes.
By Craigcat (164), Speonk on Nov 17, 17 5:34 PM
C-c No argument intended. Only trying to explain the actual status of review. Typically developers propose more development than what’s permitted and shoe horn in everything including the kitchen sink. This application is way too deep into the process for that, after not only the last 4 years; but the last 12 years since initial applications were filed.
Under normal conditions you’re correct- but nothing has been “normal” during the Hills review by the Town of Southampton...
By Lion (221), southampton on Nov 17, 17 6:12 PM
1 member liked this comment
TB, so your solution to government incompetence is to add another layer of government? I find that absurd. It is also your conclusion that property owners should entertain what other people want them to do with THEIR property. I believe in property rights. Hence, that is why I say there is no reasoning with people like you. It is an ideological difference that cannot be reconciled. That is why you are on the democratic committee and I am not.
By HB Proud (748), Hampton Bays on Nov 19, 17 4:51 PM
1 member liked this comment
Absolutely spot on
By joe hampton (2906), The Hamptons on Nov 19, 17 10:48 PM
Thank you Joe.
By HB Proud (748), Hampton Bays on Nov 19, 17 11:27 PM
Anything to stop your constant carping, HB, anything at all, even if it does add another layer of government. It's hardly my "solution," just my way of saying man up and try a little self-help. Sounds pretty Republican to me -- stop whining and take care of yourself.
By Turkey Bridge (1742), Quiogue on Nov 20, 17 4:13 PM
It's obvious The Hills has brought about a lot of debate. One thing for sure more development leads to more town services and more taxes. I hope the town has a chance to buy and preserve. Tempting people with "affordable housing" is unfair, and who needs another golf course?
By rvs (75), sag harbor on Nov 19, 17 11:25 PM
2 members liked this comment
RVS is 100% correct. HB Proud, Lion and all the other Hissey kids you have to stop dreaming and read rvs (above). I attended most of the Town Board meeting on "The Hills" where the idea that Fire, EMS, Police and Teachers are over burdened now and "As Of Right" (which will take years to build and sell) will be too much...Guess what, all the above services and more will be needed at a Golf Resort. Just one point to think about ...after a day golfing and a few hours drinking in the club house ..How ...more
By SpeedRacer (61), Southampton on Nov 20, 17 1:47 PM
Sparkling Pools, Hot Tubs, repairs, construction, new, used