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Aug 9, 2016 7:59 PMPublication: The Southampton Press

Revised Tuckahoe Center Proposal Submitted To Southampton Town

Rendering of original Tuckahoe Center proposal
Aug 10, 2016 11:07 AM

A new proposal has emerged for the Tuckahoe Center project.

The proposal—a 52,000-square-foot building complex with a supermarket and retail center along County Road 39 at Magee Street in Tuckahoe—has been a subject of heated debate for years. On Tuesday, August 9, the Southampton Town Board referred a revised version of the plan to the Suffolk County Planning Commission for an opinion.

The proposal seeks to rezone three adjoining properties along the southeastern side of County Road 39 from highway business to shopping center business zoning. Additionally, it asks for a change of zone for a fourth parcel, which adjoins the northeastern side of Magee Street, from residential to shopping center business zoning.

A previous plan failed to win the support of the Planning Commission last December. As a result, the change of zone would have required the approval of a supermajority of the five-member Town Board, rather than a simple three-member majority.

A revised plan from the developer behind the proposal, Bob Morrow, was submitted to the town earlier this summer. It includes a 10-percent reduction of building area compared to the last proposal, reducing it to 52,500 square feet. This would result in a 38,000-square-foot grocery store and an additional 14,500 square feet of other commercial space in three separate buildings, all on 7.26 acres.

The revision also eliminates a proposed drive-through lane associated with one of the smaller commercial buildings, increases the landscaped area by 13,000 square feet, and increases the number of parking spots from 249 to 257.

At Tuesday’s Town Board meeting, the board voted to refer the amended plan, and a corresponding letter on traffic, to the Suffolk County Planning Commission and the town’s traffic consultant to determine if the revisions addressed their concerns related to traffic impact.

The letter to the town, dated July 22, indicates that developers believe that removing the drive-through window and other reductions made in the revised plan “are significant in terms of traffic mitigation.”

At the recent Town Board meeting, Southampton Citizens Advisory Committee member Evelyn Boxer said she believed the revisions submitted are not enough to address the concerns about traffic that residents have. “It just seems ridiculous for this to be considered again,” she said. “Please don’t be fooled—he just wants the same old thing.”

Linda Ashcraft, a Shinnecock Hills resident, shared this opinion, noting there are no plans to provide a left turn signal at the light or widen lanes for turns.

“In the last two years, there has been an increase of northbound traffic on Magee Street to County Road 39 that now can stack up as far back as south of the railroad tracks,” she said. “If a shopping center is needed, then an appropriate location should be found and roads and intersections should be improved to accommodate it. This proposal at this location, not only does not accomplish this, it creates increased negative impact in an already difficult traffic and safety situation.”

She added that the two proposed curb cuts for the development on County Road 39 would only worsen already-existing traffic congestion in the area.

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The insanity continues! When will the Town learn that every study in the last 40 years has called for reducing high volume traffic-producing uses on County Road 39 and just say NO to this project. Developers will keep at it only so long as the Town keeps leading them on. This application can be rejected without any further review and the Town Board knows it, so why does the Board keep breathing life into projects that have been overwhelmingly rejected by the community. How many more accidents or ...more
By Group for the East End (12), Bridgehampton on Aug 10, 16 9:50 AM
Wish I could "like" this comment ten times.
By SH_Res (342), Southampton on Aug 10, 16 11:08 AM
1 member liked this comment
However, it was never "overwhelmingly rejected" by the community. If you simply measured town board public hearings and actually counted, you would have figured there were significantly more supporters than opponents. There was no overwhelming rejection in the letters sent to the Town either. Our public representatives have also not voted on this, so there is no rejection whatsoever. So, those facts are just wrong. I guess we are going to get back into this debate again, but there is a very big ...more
By Rickenbacker (246), Southampton on Aug 10, 16 11:34 AM
1 member liked this comment
Rickenbacker, could you clarify what needed services will be provided? I agree that the Southampton Stop & Shop is awful, but I don't think that means we need another grocery store in Southampton. Hampton Bays and Bridgehampton are not that far away, and I'd rather choose to do my shopping there than have this complex built.
By SH_Res (342), Southampton on Aug 10, 16 11:51 AM
2 members liked this comment
Yes, it is long past time that a modern grocery store was built in this area, and the 1970 master plan even anticipated it. At that time, population in the Tuckahoe and surrounding areas were not sufficient to support that, but today, it is a crystal clear need, considering that Stop & Shop is the only reasonable alternative. Both the BH and HB grocery stores are far enough away that the cars local cars that need to travel there and back are only adding to the traffic situation. As population and ...more
By Rickenbacker (246), Southampton on Aug 10, 16 12:00 PM
1 member liked this comment
I remember Bohacks, A&P, Gristedes, Herbert's Market and Mclarens in Southampton Village. Now we have Schmidts-a green grocer, Citerella-a specialty shop, and Stop N Shop-a disaster.

How did we need all of those grocery stores back then and not now?

By Draggerman (844), Southampton on Aug 12, 16 9:46 AM
out of curiosity why is stop and shop in SH a disaster . never been there but the one on HB is GREAT!
By Summer Resident (223), Southampton N.Y. on Aug 13, 16 12:58 AM
Some nice, thought out shopping centers are needed, rather than the routine tire shops, delis, and gas stations. Plan wisely and good things will develop.
By Mouthampton (417), Southampton on Aug 10, 16 9:55 AM
1 member liked this comment
He's back: Morrow flack: Ridckenbacker and his desperate, pulsating need for a "modern supermarket" and whatever else his mentor desires, and his litany that they had greater numbers in the previous despicable "hearings" than the hundreds of opposition letters they ignore. They know doubt will dig up their numbers again: expect the developer's girlfriend in the flat hat; the barely articulate friends from out of the area, electricians and landscapers hoping for the account & dewy housewives genuflecting ...more
By Phanex (83), Southampton on Aug 10, 16 1:21 PM
The flack, by the way, is as everyone knows Robert Florio and his idea of a "modern supermarket" is circa 1957.
By Phanex (83), Southampton on Aug 10, 16 1:24 PM
2 members liked this comment
Can you stop posting the rendering with 3 cars on CR39?
By rv (30), watermill on Aug 10, 16 3:57 PM
2 members liked this comment
No need for a supermarket, if people can't plan there week or day to go to HB or BH they have a problem.The year round population of the area has gone down overall. in recent years.The weekend and seasonal property owners shop at Citarella or Schmid"s. To those people who want a supermarket, I say GO TO COSTCO it imost likely would be less expensive then any supermarket built in Southampton.
By JM11968 (70), southampton on Aug 10, 16 4:51 PM
2 members liked this comment
Rickebacker's 107 comments are .. i will guess .. 90% on this project .. wonder why .. he stated that he doesn't have a stake in it .. but he sure does. .. at th very least an emotional stake.. does that justify such Ayn Rand comments only when this story runs .. ??
Rickebacker are you also hoping the Not for profit golf course (hint: the one with less than $500K of buildings) gets to take Tuckahoe Road and add it to Road C (that used to connect Tuckahoe to St Andrews ) ?
..curious
By dave h (192), calverton on Aug 10, 16 6:48 PM
To answer this one specifically Dave H, I am TOTALLY AGAINST the closure of Tuckahoe Rd for the benefit of the golf club. If you had actually read any of my 107 comments you would have seen in my most recent comments that I have been very clear in my opinion that the proposed re-routing is not in the public’s interest whatsoever (please acknowledge that, if you please). So, just because Phanex or you can’t actually address the facts but again need to stoop to personal attacks and unqualified ...more
By Rickenbacker (246), Southampton on Aug 11, 16 12:05 AM
1 member liked this comment
Here we go again! In order to protect what's left of our way of life it's been necessary to attend Multiple Village Board and Town Trustee meetings and work sessions to fight for our beach access rights, go to the 10 AM Town Board meeting on Jay's misguided plan to sell off OUR road through Shinnecock golf course, now this piece of feces surfaces again. OK people, time to go to every single meeting on the subject, lobby every single Town Board member, phone calls daily, letters and e-mails. Let ...more
By bigfresh (3965), north sea on Aug 11, 16 6:28 AM
2 members liked this comment
I like that explanation. . The logic in it seems to make more sense than previous .. TY
By dave h (192), calverton on Aug 11, 16 11:33 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, didn't this take place without notice right after the Shinnecock GC town meeting? If so dishonest we would have stayed to hear this proposal.
By TheTurtle (136), Southampton on Aug 12, 16 12:14 AM
Is this stinker back? Really? This seems to be the year for DOA proposals, starting with D.J. Trump for President.

Locally it's The Hills, the re-routing of Tuckahoe Road, and now yet another reprise of Tuckahoe Center. Here it is again with a smidge more lipstick on the pig, i.e., a small reduction in square footage and eight additional parking spots. Whoop-de-doo!

Does Bob Morrow really think he can outlast us the way The Hills' developer thinks? Not happening, Mr. M. We're ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1902), Quiogue on Aug 12, 16 9:46 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Draggerman (844), Southampton on Aug 12, 16 10:27 AM
George, you live west of the canal and really don't have the right to comment on this. Kind of like your comment about me not having a right to comment of the Dem primary race.

As for the traffic armeggedon that this would cause.... I thought we didn't need it? If we don't need it, no one will go there. Therefore, no traffic...
By Draggerman (844), Southampton on Aug 12, 16 10:27 AM
Build it already, dealing with Southampton Village is a hot mess. Literally.
By even flow (808), East Hampton on Aug 12, 16 10:42 AM
1 member liked this comment
Build a freakin supermarket already! Why should people in SH and North Sea have to take the dangerous County Rd.39 to HB and Montauk Hey with its bottlenecks to Bridgehampton to get groceries. This conversation is boorish at best.
By Infoseeker (271), Hampton Bays on Aug 12, 16 12:03 PM
1 member liked this comment
Draggerman, you don't think people west of the canal use County Road 39? You don't think people west of the canal are in and out of Southampton and Tuckahoe all the time, some of us every day? How narrow-minded can you be? You'll have to do much better than claiming I have "no right" to comment on this because of where I live.

I have to ask you the same question I did recently in another context: Are you really shilling for Bob Morrow, or are you just trying to beat up on me? Same ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1902), Quiogue on Aug 12, 16 12:27 PM
The plans look beautiful. If town doesn't allow this critically needed and long overdue center it will only be because of criminal activity. There is no need to stop it. The amount of low rent, cheap looking crap that has been built in in Tuckahoe on 39 in the last 6 months is mind blowing - and all of it without a peep.
By SlimeAlive (1033), Southampton on Aug 12, 16 3:33 PM
1 member liked this comment
Traffic is regularly at a standstill on 39, Magee Street is maxed out, sometimes taking 3 light changes to cross the highway northbound during the afternoon rush hour, now add traffic from this monstrosity to the mix. How is this oversized UTI ( up the Island) style project not going to be detrimental to our already overburdened highway and surrounding side streets? We don't this! The only ones to benefit will be the developers. We are as developed to the limit , enough.
By bigfresh (3965), north sea on Aug 12, 16 4:27 PM
2 members liked this comment
I agree bigfresh! We simply don't need this. HB and BH are not that far for doing major shops (as JM11968 said). I do it every week and don't mind at all. For anything else, like running to grab some milk or a 6-pack of beer, there's S&S in the village.

And note that for most people, running to S&S in SH does not include much time (if any) on CR39. If everyone runs to the Tuckahoe Center every time they need milk, CR39 WILL BE CRAZY. It's already crazy, how much worse can it get?

And ...more
By SH_Res (342), Southampton on Aug 12, 16 5:05 PM
1 member liked this comment
What's your vested interested in a supermarket an hour from where you live, Gene S from Speonk? You poopoo and negate the views of those who live here, and can't wait to shop here? Why, because there's no supermarket closer to Speonk? Seriously?
Stop and Shop was voted next to last in a national survey of supermarkets, so I'm all for the addition of another store (but not the ubiquitous King Kullen) and replacing Stop and Shop with something better, but any further thought of County Road ...more
By June Bug (2270), SOUTHAMPTON on Aug 12, 16 5:55 PM
1 member liked this comment
S&S should be under criminal investigation...How do they manage to kill so much letuce?
By Toma Noku (616), Southampton on Aug 12, 16 11:13 PM
It’s good to see you are now on board about the need for a new grocery store. Let’s talk about location since the other complaint seems to be that this one is not appropriate. In fact, there are only so many places that can support the requirements set by the Shopping Center zone. If I remember correctly there were about 4-5 locations between the canal to the west and Bridgehampton to the east that would support it. One of those is the current proposed site, another was land near David ...more
By Rickenbacker (246), Southampton on Aug 14, 16 9:18 AM
1 member liked this comment
It'll be a cold day in hell before there's an Applebee's east of the canal.
By Mr. Z (10776), North Sea on Aug 16, 16 10:47 PM
If a supermarket is needed - this is not the right spot
By Summer Resident (223), Southampton N.Y. on Aug 13, 16 1:03 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By SlimeAlive (1033), Southampton on Aug 13, 16 7:36 AM
Building this mega supermarket , which is clearly not needed nor wanted by LOCAL residents, on 39 is just wrong. Rickenbacker , is it your assertion that this high traffic development will not negatively impact traffic on Magee Street and 39?
By bigfresh (3965), north sea on Aug 15, 16 7:10 AM
Your achingly transparent manufacturing a narrative of a "mega mall" unwanted by locals is impossible to support with facts.
By SlimeAlive (1033), Southampton on Aug 15, 16 7:28 AM
Bigfresh, I am a LOCAL resident, and a lot of other LOCAL residents want to see this project built. Based on the two traffic studies, one done by the developer and the other contracted independently by the town, both point to significant reductions in miles traveled across CR 39 and its surrounds. I drive that stretch often as well, and have discussed this many times with other reasonable LOCAL residents, who seem to agree that based on their experience, existing traffic isn’t likely to be ...more
By Rickenbacker (246), Southampton on Aug 15, 16 9:09 AM
Hey Rickenbacker, where do you go to get a copy of your birth certificate?
By Mr. Z (10776), North Sea on Aug 15, 16 7:01 PM
I have no problem with the way things are now in regards to grocery shopping. Do you use Magee Street to cross the highway on a regular basis? The traffic backup in both directions at certain times of day is incredible, how will the increased traffic entering the shopping center impact this? The traffic light will have to be re programmed to allow more frequent turns further blocking up the highway. Face it, we are full here, too much development of all kinds, enough is enough. Don't like the shopping ...more
By bigfresh (3965), north sea on Aug 15, 16 10:23 AM
As I've said in the past to this tired, discredited "traffic armageddon" rant, when you say "Traffic, Traffic, Traffic!", all we hear is "Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!" All of your questions were answered very specifically at public hearings and in the application documents.
By Rickenbacker (246), Southampton on Aug 15, 16 12:19 PM
Rickenbacker - are either of these two traffic studies publicly available online?
By SH_Res (342), Southampton on Aug 15, 16 12:39 PM
Man, you really don't get it.

We are DONE letting people like you and your cohorts exploit and defile our home.

No matter what, it's less than eight miles to a grocery store in either direction of Tuckahoe, not counting Stop N Shop. If that's too far for you, move to Nassau.
By Mr. Z (10776), North Sea on Aug 15, 16 7:10 PM
Absolutely right, Mr. Z. We all seem to prize the special character of this area as a farming/fishing/old-time summer resort community, still at least semi-rural and still different from the rest of Long Island.

Well, there's a price for that. It has several aspects, one of which is not having shopping at the same level of convenience or accessibility as Nassau and Western Suffolk. We just can't have it both ways, folks. If you don't want to pay the price, you don't have to live here.
By Turkey Bridge (1902), Quiogue on Aug 15, 16 9:32 PM
2 members liked this comment
Mssrs. Z and Turkey Bridge speak with all the exclusionary rhetoric that is typical of commenters who refuse to acknowledge that the immediate area has already been inundated with new residential buildings, whether that is new construction homes north of the highway, condos, and townhouses, and illustrative of only one small part of the overall effect of a continual growing population density in the Hamptons, significantly so since 1980. This exceptionalism is also mind-numbingly ignorant of the ...more
By Rickenbacker (246), Southampton on Aug 16, 16 9:06 AM
Population, really? Google the last senses why don't you, the population has gone down in the area that you speak of, 80% of the homes in Southampton village are second homes. I would say that goes for Water Mill and BH and other areas.No one is saying this property is precious open space just build as of right. Oh yeah and all the building you point to are second homes as well nothing more.
By JM11968 (70), southampton on Aug 16, 16 5:34 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Mr. Z (10776), North Sea on Aug 16, 16 6:57 PM
1 member liked this comment
Have to disagree, Rickenbacker. The still-attractive areas you name are under threat, as we all know. Indeed, the entire East End is under threat. The only way to combat that threat is by unrelenting vigilance, by making the path for overdevelopment harder, not easier.

I'm not prepared to yield on any part of the region. Quiogue, where I live, can be considered to be built out, but it's been built out in a way that it still has lots of charm. That's doable and that's what we should strive ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1902), Quiogue on Aug 16, 16 10:13 AM
1 member liked this comment
You need to walk in our footsteps to understand how silly that sounds given the present situation.
By Rickenbacker (246), Southampton on Aug 16, 16 11:36 AM
Well, if your shoes are made for walkin', I recommend heading west.
By Mr. Z (10776), North Sea on Aug 16, 16 7:04 PM
1 member liked this comment
Good one. That was funny.
By Rickenbacker (246), Southampton on Aug 17, 16 12:23 PM
"Our" footsteps? Who might that be? Morrow's paid hacks posting here? If you"re from here the shopping situation is just fine. If you come from UTI then you would be used to high density , traffic and mega supermarkets. It's quite irksome when folks move here and want to change things to remind them of suburbia.
By bigfresh (3965), north sea on Aug 16, 16 2:57 PM
2 members liked this comment
OK, so I've lived and worked here for over 36 years, was never a "summer visitor", am not being paid for my opinion (the grocery shopping situation here is NOT fine), my kids born in Southampton hospital and graduated from the school system, etc. That likely doesn't qualify me for "true" local status, but it does give me a fairly long perspective. It's also beside the point, since what you are espousing still smacks of an "us" vs "them" attitude and I wonder if you even have a good sense of who ...more
By Rickenbacker (246), Southampton on Aug 17, 16 12:35 PM
What you are espousing is convenience, not a need.

You obviously can't tell the difference.
By Mr. Z (10776), North Sea on Aug 17, 16 10:03 PM
The convenience vs need argument is a red herring. Completely irrelevant. It's also objective. You only NEED air, shelter and water.




By even flow (808), East Hampton on Aug 18, 16 6:13 AM
quite aware of who my neighbors are , thanks for the concern. I haven't spoken to a single neighbor or friend who thinks siting a UTI style shopping center on CR 39 is a good idea.
By bigfresh (3965), north sea on Aug 20, 16 7:01 AM
1 member liked this comment
Gee evenflow, you may be right.

I mean, who needs food anyway?

It could explain all the McMansions on former farmland. By that logic, McMansions ARE more important than food...
By Mr. Z (10776), North Sea on Aug 20, 16 7:45 AM
The Montauk Highway entrance and exit out of Southampton is a disgrace. This once beautiful area has been ravaged, and why, for the sake of the almighty dollar bill. Locals who have lived here for generations desperately want a stop to this development. If you don't like what's left of a once bucolic area, why live here? There are abundant suburbs available that will nicely meet your need for your accustomed "conveniences".
By DediMcNamara (1), on Aug 19, 16 2:40 PM
How many times do we have to say no to this proposal of a shopping center??
The traffic on Moses Lane is already reaching dangerous proportions with traffic having to straddle the railroad tracks. More importantly, the zoning variances as a result of this will have far worse implications for the future of our already over developed community. When will this insanity stop?
By Maggie Embry (1), Southampton on Aug 26, 16 11:17 PM
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