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Jun 16, 2011 4:55 PMPublication: The Southampton Press

Former Southampton Town Employee Files Complaint Claiming She Was Wrongfully Terminated

Jun 22, 2011 11:33 AM

A former Southampton Town employee who was fired last July filed a human rights complaint against the municipality last month, claiming that she was wrongfully terminated from her position. The complaint follows a notice of claim, a precursor to a lawsuit, that she filed with the town last year, also charging that she was improperly fired.

The Southampton Town Board, which fired Darlene Troge, the town’s affirmative action officer and workplace policy and compliance director, voted at a meeting last Tuesday, June 14, to hire the law firm Devitt Spellman Barrett LLP, based in Smithtown, at a cost not to exceed $10,000, to represent the town in the human rights case.

Ms. Troge said last week she was wrongfully terminated last year while attempting to do her job, in part by advocating for another employee to receive a higher salary commensurate with her colleagues holding similar positions.

Ms. Troge, a member of the Shinnecock Indian Nation, was hired as the town’s affirmative action officer in 2008 and then appointed to the additional position of workplace policy and compliance director in 2009. She filed a human rights complaint with the State Division of Human Rights in early May. On May 25, she received confirmation that the complaint had been received. Ms. Troge hopes the agency will follow up her complaint with an investigation.

“I believe it was retaliation because I was insisting on fair and equal opportunities for everyone,” Ms. Troge said last Thursday of her termination. Ms. Troge worked in the General Services/Business Management Department, which was overseen at the time by former Town Management Services Administrator Richard Blowes. Mr. Blowes could not be reached for comment this week because he is on vacation, according to a town employee.

A separate notice of claim was filed with the town last September by Ms. Troge and her Manhattan-based attorney, Eugene G. Eisner, according to town records. In the notice of claim, she seeks back pay for wages she would have earned if she were still employed there, reinstatement to her position, and payment of attorney’s fees. Ms. Troge said she earned an annual salary of $75,000 before being terminated on July 1, 2010.

The resolution to fire her was sponsored by Town Supervisor Anna Throne-Holst and was unanimously approved by the Town Board. Ms. Throne-Holst is listed in the notice of claim, as well as the Town of Southampton and the Town Council.

“I’d just like things to be made right,” said Ms. Troge, who is currently unemployed. “If it’s found that I was wrongfully terminated, I’d really like to get back to work. I really felt it was my life’s work.”

Town Attorney Tiffany Scarlato, Ms. Throne-Holst, Town Councilwoman Nancy Graboski and Town Councilman Jim Malone all declined to comment on the case. Town Councilwoman Bridget Fleming and Councilman Chris Nuzzi did not return calls seeking comment. Town officials have not offered an explanation of why Ms. Troge was terminated.

The notice of claim, which was served to the town on September 24, was not filed in court, Ms. Troge said. She also said she is not yet suing the town, but merely asking for an investigation from the state into whether the town was discriminatory in its firing of her. She said she filed the notice of claim with the town to reserve her option to sue at a later date, depending on the outcome of a potential state investigation. Ms. Scarlato said while the human rights complaint is not technically a lawsuit, Ms. Troge is asking for the same monetary awards as she did in the notice of claim—back wages, attorney’s fees and reinstatement to her position.

The main goal of the human rights complaint, Ms. Troge said, is to make things right, and to hopefully make the town change what she believes are its institutionalized, discriminatory practices. Before she was fired, she said she was working on a number of discrimination-related issues concerning town employees who approached her with concerns that they weren’t getting equal pay for equal work. She declined to name the employees or provide a copy of the complaint, fearing backlash against the employees from the town.

“If the investigation determines there are discriminatory practices within the town, I would like to see those practices changed,” Ms. Troge said. “And I’m not asking for advantages for the protected class that they don’t deserve, but merely to be treated fairly.”

The notice of claim provides a summary of what happened before she was fired. According to the complaint, in January 2010, Ms. Troge was approached by Lisa Goree, a Native American who is currently a deputy assessor in the town assessor’s office, who told Ms. Troge that she was “receiving disparate compensation in comparison to her Caucasian colleagues in similar positions in the township.” Ms. Troge assisted Ms. Goree in her pursuit of equal compensation from January through April. She reported the issue to Mr. Blowes in April, who, according to the claim, said he would take it to Ms. Throne-Holst. The claim alleges that Ms. Troge was terminated “in retaliation for opposing and complaining to her supervisor about the unlawful practice of providing disparate and discriminatory compensation to Goree.”

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This seems like there's a history of problems with Ms. Troge.Lawyers should back track to problems with Riverhead Charter School to she if ther's a pattern.
By Shout ot loud (20), Southampton on Jun 16, 11 5:22 PM
1 member liked this comment
really? her boss' name is Dick Blowes? Southampton Town is one wacky place.
:)
By davidf (325), hampton bays on Jun 16, 11 8:46 PM
3 members liked this comment
What a joke
By joe hampton (2971), south hampton on Jun 16, 11 10:29 PM
A position is not appointed its earned... no matter what the color of your skin. Enough already
By joe hampton (2971), south hampton on Jun 16, 11 10:31 PM
Hey, Joe Hampton, do you know all of the details of the case or do you just dismiss it outright based on political ideology or something worse?
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Jun 17, 11 8:05 AM
Believing in equality of opportunity, rather than equality of outcome is clearly a sign of a bigotry and "hate".

Congratulations peoplefirst, you've outed yet another secret racist. Your sense of moral superiority is preserved.
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Jun 17, 11 9:03 AM
Realityfirst, please state where specifically in my post I said what you are accusing me of having said. You won't be able to, because it did not happen. I said why dismiss her claims without having heard all of the facts. Can you answer that on behalf of your friend/alter ego, or do you prefer to simply spew b. s.

Time and time again you prove that you have the intellectual curiosity of a stump.
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Jun 17, 11 10:18 AM
1 member liked this comment
Peoplefirst = Troge ?
By They call me (2211), southampton on Jun 17, 11 9:01 AM
1 member liked this comment
Doesn't matter the facts of the case no way is it written that people are entitled to a job for life when hired. That is the problem with this country people think that they are entitled especially on the east end. There is too much bureocratic garbage jobs in the public sector. Go find a real job.
By maxwell (169), speonk on Jun 17, 11 11:04 AM
Did you really just say, "Facts don't matter"? Thank you for having the courage to admit that you are simply drawing conclusions pulled from thin air rather than bothering with those pesky little facts.

This is not about whether or not she is "entitled" to the job, but whether or not she was wrongly dismissed. Does anyone ever bother to actually read these articles, or just the headlines and right wing comments? Hello, anyone home?!

realitylast lies in wait to say something ...more
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Jun 17, 11 11:36 AM
You're a hard left wing lunatic, yet you seem to think you're some sort of moderate.

Who do you think you're fooling?

By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Jun 17, 11 2:56 PM
HAH! I'm no moderate, unreality, and I certainly don't pretend to be. I am a proud left wing lunatic, baby!
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Jun 17, 11 3:29 PM
razaa5351, left wing lunatics welcome at thesouthamptonprogressive . com
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Jun 21, 11 2:31 PM
I can't wait to catch a snapper. I really like snapper. Last year I caught so many snappers I put them in a plastic bag! What was the question?
By WTF? (1), Flanders on Jun 17, 11 11:19 AM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By BeachesandBays, southampton on Jun 17, 11 12:06 PM
Sounds like a waste of money in the first place. Sorry, your job has been deemed unneccessary, out you go!
By bigfresh (3085), north sea on Jun 17, 11 12:12 PM
1 member liked this comment
sounds like ms. troge got caught up in the votex of the p.c. bubble that seems to be waning from its heights of the late 1990s and early 2000s. before they created the position, someone could have mentioned that a town affirmative action officer is a needless position. but, the affirmative action officer is sure her firing is retaliation for trying to create fairness, which sounds like what her job description was all about. now, she was let go for being too fair, according to her and her attorney ...more
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Jun 17, 11 1:13 PM
1 member liked this comment
What an amazing bunch of comments. Why is everyone so quick to condemn this woman? Do you know her personally? Do you know the specific details of why her position was cut?

It may turn out that she was legitimately let go and she is just out of luck or, it may turn out that she was wrongly fired. It is not "p.c" to have an Affirmative Action Officer, especially in a town as segregated as ours and where many believe there has been a long history of job discrimination.

This attitude ...more
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Jun 17, 11 2:38 PM
2 members liked this comment
Affirmitive action is nothing more than legal institutionalized discrimination. How in the world can that be justified? Before the leftists and liberal bleeding hearts start in with the old mantra of "it's making up for past discrimination". Think about this, how does discriminating against someone or favoring someone solely on the basis of race or gender do any good? Martin Luther King had it right when he spoke of the day when a man will be judged not by the color of his skin but on the content ...more
By bigfresh (3085), north sea on Jun 17, 11 4:15 PM
2 members liked this comment
What about Asians aren't they minorities ? Why don't they qualify for affirmative action? could it be because they don't need to - They are raised to be industrious enough to make it on their own. They have strong family values and 2 parents at home who keep track of there child's progress and where they are at 10 O'Clock PM. They were just as poor 40 years ago with a worse rep than any other minority but through hard word and honor they have lifted themselves up through American society.
By joe hampton (2971), south hampton on Jun 17, 11 6:58 PM
1 member liked this comment
Wow, Capen' You didn't know H.Cain IS black Africain American? I thought everyone knew that. His picture is prominently dispayed here south of the Mason Dixion line, which I call South of the Border.
By summertime (589), summerfield fl on Jun 18, 11 7:57 AM
There are a lot of white people in this country whose ancestors came here AFTER SLAVERY WAS ABOLISHED Phil. Your argument, excuse me, leftist talking point, doesn't hold water. Are you saying tha Martin Luther King had it wrong? That takes a set of brass ballz and an incredible ego!
By bigfresh (3085), north sea on Jun 18, 11 7:45 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By summertime (589), summerfield fl on Jun 18, 11 10:57 AM
take it easy lady! what sounds normal to you and the voices inside your head is inappropriate to even write in a public forum. you are outrageous.
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Jun 18, 11 11:25 AM
bigfresh does not comprehend what "disparity" is.

Once you've garnered that, the rest is pretty simple to understand.
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 21, 11 2:29 PM
"They are raised to be industrious enough to make it on their own. They have strong family values and 2 parents at home" -as opposed to those lazy black and brown people, eh joehampton? Congratulations on posting one of the most blatantly racist posts ever, even on this site.
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Jun 18, 11 9:08 AM
No not all black people and very few Spanish people are lazy on the contrary they are the hardest working people I know. But 90 percent of Asian American's take an active role in their children's affairs. Ask Bill Cosby if the urban populations are doing the same.
By joe hampton (2971), south hampton on Jun 19, 11 1:36 AM
". . . after all, I’m just an ignorant teabagger" Finally something we agree on!
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Jun 18, 11 12:40 PM
1 member liked this comment
James Farmer (former president of CORE) revealed the genesis of the term, "affirmative action" years ago. According to him, the original term was "compensatory discrimination" but LBJ thought that that was too inflammatory so he suggested "affirmative action" instead.

By either name, affirmative action is the most despicable, hypocritical, invidious and blatantly unconstitutional legislation that has been passed in my lifetime. Discrimination on the basis of race (by the government at ...more
By highhatsize (3361), East Quogue on Jun 18, 11 1:06 PM
i cant believe i actually agree with HH
By CaptainSig (647), Dutch Harbor on Jun 20, 11 6:12 AM
1 member liked this comment
Affirmative action applies to people with disabilities and to women, as well as people of color, and has helped millions to be able to earn a decent living for themselves and their families. It was created to open doors that had traditionally or historically been closed. Sometimes the barriers to better jobs were there simply out of habit or custom and not just because of deliberate discrimination.

Southampton Town had an affirmative action plan for 20 + years, but hadn't abided by it ...more
By goldenrod (505), southampton on Jun 22, 11 11:52 AM
You're talking about reverse-racism, which is illegal. In general affirmative action looks to make things equal for people of all incomes, ethnic backgrounds, etc.

For example, an employer can list an ethnicity as a desirous quality of a candidate but they cant have a specific quota to fill.
By cochise316 (58), southampton on Jun 18, 11 2:01 PM
2 members liked this comment
How about letting the most quaified applicant get the job, regardless or race or gender. THA is equality!
By bigfresh (3085), north sea on Jun 18, 11 4:06 PM
1 member liked this comment
In a perfect world, the most qualified candidate gets the job. As we all can agree, the world we live in is far from perfect.

Affirmative action in its current form seeks equality, not discrimination. The "good old boy network" is a good example of what affirmative action combats.


By cochise316 (58), southampton on Jun 19, 11 9:01 AM
1 member liked this comment
I just love the fantasy world bigfresh envisions.

Unfortunately, the rest of us still live in the real world, and however extremely unfortunate, Jim Crow ain't dead yet.
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 21, 11 2:37 PM
27East.com Your Connection to White Supremacy. Hard to believe we live in the northeast
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Jun 18, 11 5:31 PM
you ought to run against both bishop and altschuler philathome. there doesn't seem to be a single socio-economic-political issue for which you do not have the obvious perfect solution. your insight is vast , you appear to have the diplomatic communication skills, possess deep knowledge of both domestic and foreign policy as well as a keen sense of the humanities, you definitely have that intangible sixth sense of the discretion to not state anything unless you have done your research and are sure ...more
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Jun 19, 11 6:04 AM
Your sarcastic response is cute, but why not try addressing the issue at hand instead. If you believe, like your fellow boy's club conservatives, that affirmative action is unnecessary and that there is no more hiring discrimination based on race or gender, then just say so. I applaud Phil for standing up for progressive views on a board overrun by right wing ideology.

Those of you on this board quoting MLK as an argument against affirmative action, you clearly have very little understanding ...more
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Jun 19, 11 5:51 PM
I believe that affirmative action is necessary. In fact, with the numbers I can see, affirmative action will soon be taking on an entirely new charge. To make sure the quota of token white people are met.
By HSA (68), southampton on Jun 24, 11 1:16 PM
NEVER! all men are created equal after that you reap what you sow and a days work for a days pay...until your the owner or your own business you have no rights but the right to quit and find a better job
By joe hampton (2971), south hampton on Jun 24, 11 10:02 PM
to cochise316 & philathome:

Your quibbles are casuistry. Be is plain vanilla, reverse, or " llist[ing] an ethnicity as a desirous quality", the criterion for Affirmative Action is race.

Most of us agree that racial discrimination is wrong, some would even say evil. It does not change its character when employed against a majority race.

By endowing a class with rights superior to those of citizens who are not included we have attacked the definitive core of our political ...more
By highhatsize (3361), East Quogue on Jun 19, 11 10:46 AM
to philathome:

What, exactly, is your point? Slavery, and the exclusion of slaves, of whatever race, from Constitutional guarantees, was wrong. We have corrected that. Everyone is now guaranteed EQUAL (there's that word again) rights by the Constitution.

The moral myopia regarding race that afflicted all European/American civilization up until the 1960's is hardly a phenomenon that negates idealistic aspirations.

Or are you saying that Jefferson's racial blindness invalidates ...more
By highhatsize (3361), East Quogue on Jun 19, 11 11:21 AM
1 member liked this comment
It's not just race. To this day women earn less money for the same jobs even if the woman has identical experience and qualifications as a male applicant. Why should women be paid less? There is no logical reason, yet the disparity still exists.

Ideally, affirmative action attempts to give women an equal opportunity as well as equal pay, the same as it does for minorities, low income people, etc. It would be nice if employers were color, race and gender blind but sadly that is not the ...more
By cochise316 (58), southampton on Jun 20, 11 7:39 AM
Ms. Troge is entitled to her day in court, just as anyone of us are. However, it is no coincidence that she chose the word "retaliation" in her quote to the press. "Retaliation" is the hot word in EEO policy right now. Many employers/supervisors who initially have done nothing wrong end up in trouble for retaliating against an employee who files an EEO/Affirmative action claim or simply broaches the subject.

The fact of the matter is that if you treat everyone equally and consistently ...more
By DC (11), Hampton Bays on Jun 19, 11 10:59 AM
She is not filing an affirmative action claim. She was an affirmative action officer who says she was wrongfully terminated for doing her job. Does no one on these boards bother to read the articles before making posting?
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Jun 19, 11 5:56 PM
I don't think my post says anything about her filing an affirmative action claim. Do you not read posts before replying to them?
By DC (11), Hampton Bays on Jun 21, 11 6:15 PM
Phil: You are a bigotted little racist weasel! Your Stance screams that minorities can't compete on an equal footing with non-minorities. That's a disgusting bit of blatant racism. You still haven't responded to my pointing out that you have the ballz to go 180 degrees against Martin Luther King Jr.'s idea of a man being judged not by the color of his skin but by the content of his character.
By bigfresh (3085), north sea on Jun 19, 11 12:02 PM
1 member liked this comment
Bigfresh, seek help.
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Jun 19, 11 4:44 PM
You've been sequestered here your entire life, haven't you?
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 21, 11 2:41 PM
Phil just stop your starting to sound so desperate
By joe hampton (2971), south hampton on Jun 20, 11 12:13 AM
phil, can you please give us some insight on the ''equality idealized in the declaration of independence". I believe it stated that ''men are created equal''. I don't recall anything about "all men are to be treated equally economically and educationally" the whole gig, means (to me, i wasn't there, so it appears to be up for some interpretation) that you come into this world naked and endowed with the same rights as everyone else. what you do with it is up to you. the world will always leave ...more
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Jun 20, 11 6:27 AM
The founding father's were slave owners who said blacks were 3/5 of a person, so to say that they believed we all come into this work with the same rights as everyone else is laughable. Do you realize that Civil Rights act did not exist until 1964? And that the Lilly Ledbetter fair pay act for women was just signed in 2009?

The framers were trying to limit the power of government and increase individual freedoms for white land owners. They were not infallible.

Do you think a ...more
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Jun 20, 11 8:50 AM
1 member liked this comment
Is it justice when someone who scores higher on a professional, skill specific test is denied a job becuase of their skin color?

It happens every day, in the name of diversity.

I guess your compassion and sense of fairness is suspended when the person denied a fair chance is the wrong color.
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Jun 20, 11 9:14 AM
Also, you're ignorance of the "3/5th's compromise" is shocking, but not surprising.

Southern states wanted slaves counted as a full person, and Northern, largely abolitionist, states didn't want them counted at all.

This was about the population based apportionment of political power amongst states, and wasn't a statement about the value of one person in relation to another.
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Jun 20, 11 9:20 AM
Realitylast, nice revisionist history attempt, dude. Slaveholders wanted to count slaves in their actual numbers because they COULD NOT VOTE. This was a big plus to the slaveholders because if you counted a black man as a whole voter, the white owner would get increased representation in the house and the electoral college.

To say that is not about race is to show your complete and total ignorance and your pathetic willingness to rewrite history to suit your prejudice. You think it ...more
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Jun 20, 11 9:59 AM
"But something even more important needs to be pointed out-the suggestion that a white person will always score higher on a standard test than a person of color.This is one of the ways racism creeps out ...more of the right."

Absurd. A meritocracy is what conservative want, not some beaurocrat choosing winners and losers based on their skin color.

That's the definition of true prejudice, and that's exactly the system you want.
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Jun 20, 11 4:55 PM
I think some of you are missing something very important. The repercussions of racism still linger in the inner cities, and other places throughout this country.

Have you really EVER taken an honest step back, and looked at our country from the dingiest inner city slum, to it's ritziest neighborhoods? Have you ever looked at the education system, and it's qualities in each locale?

This country is PATHETIC. And not only do I love it enough, but I also have the GUTS to say it.
Jun 21, 11 3:46 PM appended by Mr. Z
Less than 10% of the world's population, consuming around 25% of the planet's resources. Sure, that's sustainable living...
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 21, 11 3:46 PM
Read King's "I have a dream" speech Phil, it shows that all the father of the civil rights movement wated was equal opportunities for his race, you racist little weasel.
By bigfresh (3085), north sea on Jun 20, 11 6:34 AM
1 member liked this comment
Read Kennedy's New Frontier speech, and note how very little has really changed in sixty years.
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 21, 11 6:13 PM
phil, would you also mind building on this statement as well, i have read and re-read it and just cannot figure out what to what you are referring:

"Right now in this country there is a movement to deconstruct the infrastructure that creates and promotes equality among those who represent the backbone of our society and favors extending the priveleges of power at the expense of forcing servitude by removing any vestiges of fair and just compensation from the working class and rewarding ...more
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Jun 20, 11 6:34 AM
A passage from: "The Right Has a Dream
Martin Luther King as an Opponent of Affirmative Action" by Paul Rockwell

"The exploitation of King's name, the distortion of his teachings for political gain, is an ugly development. The term "affirmative action" did not come into currency until after King's death--but it was King himself, as chair of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, who initiated the first successful national affirmative action campaign: "Operation Breadbasket."

In ...more
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Jun 20, 11 8:23 AM
1 member liked this comment
progressnow, a place where your views would be welcomed thesouthamptonprogressive . com
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Jun 21, 11 9:20 AM
Those who would abrogate the right of white males to equal protection base their arguments on two propositions:

First, that the detrimental economic effect on minorities of centuries of discrimination necessitates that we ignore the civil rights of the majority in order to rectify the status of the minority with dispatch. (This appears to have been MLK's position.)

Secondly, that any document penned white men who accepted slavery is poisoned and its content, thereby, invalid. ...more
By highhatsize (3361), East Quogue on Jun 20, 11 10:58 AM
to philathome:

Laws that deny a citizen his right to individual equality (ancestry notwithstanding) are despicable, as are laws that enslave him. Affirmative action and slavery both violate the fundamental principle of our republic.

Your claim that Affirmative Action doesn't "punish" individual majority members is insuperable. Compensatory discrimination, by definition, always does.
By highhatsize (3361), East Quogue on Jun 20, 11 9:04 PM
Philathome, a place where your views would be welcomed thesouthamptonprogressive . com
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Jun 21, 11 9:19 AM
HH, in a "perfect world", that type of view would be reasonable.

But, we don't live in that type of world. Because there are people out there who still behave like they are in the "Good Ole Boys Club", Affirmative Action exists, and will continue until society gives bonafide reason that is should be repealed.

Right now, that society DOESN'T EXIST. I have to disagree with you on this one.
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 21, 11 3:05 PM
What are all you people talking about? No one is entitled to a job. Everyone who sucks on the public taxpayer dollar thinks that they are entitled to a job and benefits forever. Look at the real world people in private industry are paying more for benefits and getting less in salary. I wish all these people would stop whinning. The p[osition was eliminated and for the life of me I can't see why it was created inthe first place Go find a real job
By maxwell (169), speonk on Jun 20, 11 11:28 AM
Imagine that the best qualified individual for a job is confined to a wheelchair. The employer would like to hire the person but will not do so because they need to provide that person with reasonable accommodations at the company's expense.

While the ADA isn't exactly the same as affirmative action, they both want the same thing. Neither guarantees a job. All the 2 acts guarantee is access to an individually who might otherwise not have it. If you think that things like age, gender and ...more
By cochise316 (58), southampton on Jun 21, 11 7:30 AM
cochise, a place where your views would be welcomed thesouthamptonprogressive . com
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Jun 21, 11 9:20 AM
oh c'mon, ''while the ada isn't exactly the same as affirmative action"...now being a woman or a minority is a disability? that is wild.
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Jun 21, 11 12:00 PM
It is a PROVEN fact that women with the same exact education, and experience, earn less than a man in the same position.

Like I said above, Jim Crow ain't dead yet. And, he has expanded his views, as well as clientele over the decades of who to exclude, cheat, and otherwise remove opportunity from.

Sorry do break it to you, but discrimination is alive and kicking to this very moment.
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 21, 11 2:59 PM
1 member liked this comment
Well said, cochise. Precise and accurate comparison.
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Jun 21, 11 3:03 PM
Kaluss, in the broad scope of things the term "disadvantaged classes" encompasses a lot of people. Low income individuals, minorities, the handicapped, women, as well as older/elderly employees.

Discrimination comes in many forms.
By cochise316 (58), southampton on Jun 21, 11 6:58 PM
2 members liked this comment
Sometimes you have to know what was going on in the inside to understand the real story. I am not familiar with this woman's situation, but I do know there were about a dozen who wouldn't have chosen to stop working but who were pushed out anyway earlier this year. While it was tidily covered up by stories of "early retirement" to a gullible press, the stream of upset people heading to HR to find out why their jobs were ending and what could be done to prevent it, told a very different story.
By goldenrod (505), southampton on Jun 22, 11 12:14 PM
You have got to be kidding. And, you have got to be single. Because if you were married, you would not be suggesting that being a woman is a disadvantage to an individual. In fact, I would like you to go tell your mother or your sister or your grandmother that you believe that their being a woman means by definition that they are at a disadvantage. With a male ego like that its no wonder there isn't a topic on this site you don't propose to know everything about.
By HSA (68), southampton on Jun 24, 11 1:14 PM
1 member liked this comment
It should not be the burden of a business owner to solve the problems of the world. If you are in a wheel chair and I need a tree climber, I am sorry this job is not for you...End of conversation
By joe hampton (2971), south hampton on Jun 21, 11 9:17 AM
What a completely nonsensical response. The posts are about jobs for which folks are qualified but excluded due to race, gender, or physical challenges. Clearly, someone in a wheel chair is not qualified to climb trees and the law would not apply. Perhaps you were trying to be funny? If so, you still missed the mark, if not . . .
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Jun 21, 11 3:06 PM
I'll tell you guys a little story, and I hope it doesn't get skewed too much after it is read.

Many years ago, I graduated high school, and was going on to a quite reputable trade school. When we met with the financial aid staff of the school, it was mentioned as an aside that it would have been better if my mother were not a working professional single mother, as I would have qualified for more grants, and funding toward my education. Her income was right on the cusp when it came down ...more
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 21, 11 2:50 PM
3 members liked this comment
wow, dagdavid spamming the board, classy.
By baymen1984 (5), Sag Harbor on Jun 21, 11 3:55 PM
dagdavid is a thoughtful and knowledgeable guy. he is not a tacky guy at all.
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Jun 21, 11 9:04 PM
3 comments addressed directly to like-minded individuals is not exactly "spamming the board".

Funny how you found it necessary to create a new username just to make that one comment.
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Jun 21, 11 5:06 PM
1 member liked this comment
to philathome:

I am not missing the point. You persevere in construing particular instances of racial discrimination as being non-discriminatory. If a minority is aided by compensatory discrimination to "access opportunity", it is still racial discrimination. By contrast, there is no principled or pragmatic objection to preferential treatment for the economically or developmentally disadvantaged because all Americans qualify for those classes.

Racial discrimination is a red ...more
By highhatsize (3361), East Quogue on Jun 21, 11 7:14 PM
1 member liked this comment
My curiousity is piqued.

May we have your "simpler" solutions, that would be superior to the current affirmative action edict?

The results of an individual's IQ test, perhaps?
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 22, 11 2:57 AM
to Mr. Z:

Compensatory discrimination is THE most efficient means of improving the status of minorities since it excludes whites from competition. Alternative strategies will not be as effective since whites remain in the competitive pool.

That being said, there are other means that ARE effective, albeit not superior to racial discrimination nor as simple in implementation.

The first which I have already mentioned is the lottery system of selection from among all candidates ...more
By highhatsize (3361), East Quogue on Jun 22, 11 10:18 AM
That's the thing I don't get.

How exactly are whites "excluded" by affirmative action? How does affirmative action "forbid" white people from getting a job? Quotas are discriminatory, and unlawful. As I recall, racial discrimination was the reason FOR Kenedy, then Johnson signing those executive orders during the Civil Rights era. Without the discriminatory practices which went on, and still go on to this day, it wouldn't exist.
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 22, 11 7:39 PM
to Mr. Z:

Quotas have been replaced with goals. In practice, they are identical. However, the object of goals is vague enough (as a statement) so that they pass judicial review. As long as the forbidden language is avoided, government, employers and schools are free to do as they please.

There are many ways in which affirmative action excludes whites. Perhaps the most obvious occurs in the those civil services in which hiring and promotion are based both on objective test scores ...more
By highhatsize (3361), East Quogue on Jun 22, 11 9:55 PM
So, you opine that affirmative action's time has passed, and it requires updating, or total repeal?
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 25, 11 1:29 PM
Just a thought that occurred to me ... Z and Philathome why don't you two start a business, any business.... with Zs brains and Phil's die hard determination to beat a dead horse you are sure to succeed. And then Z can buy his house and Phil ? Well he can by a bigger monitor to see all his complaining in better resolution.
By joe hampton (2971), south hampton on Jun 22, 11 8:58 AM
Thanks, joe.

As someone whose life was hampered by an undiagnosed disability, which will eventually be the death of me, you consistently impress the hell out of me...
Jun 22, 11 7:32 PM appended by Mr. Z
And, BTW, a larger monitor would not provide better resolution. Only more pixels per square inch (360, 480, 720, 1080, 2160), and a solid graphics card can do that.
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 22, 11 7:32 PM
now this is a good idea. let's take this a step further. instead of getting paid, the customers/clients are allowed to decide that mr. z and philathome have enough money. that really, with a good truck and a nice house...they simply have all they need and anymore would just be wrong, for lack of a better term. and instead of getting their invoices paid...the client may decide to take some of that money and make a donation to a charitable organization. shouldn't be a problem at all...everybody ...more
By HSA (68), southampton on Jun 22, 11 8:03 PM
Wow.

Simply stunning. You've had the solution at your fingertips the WHOLE TIME!! Why didn't you tell anyone SOONER????

Once again, we have a disingenuous fool, who believes he knows someone because he met them in cyberspace.

I have no problem with someone being more wealthy, or successful than I. What I do have a problem with, is those that amassed it due to fraud, deception, and malfeasant practices. Those factors are beyond being "unfair", they are prosecutable ...more
Jun 22, 11 8:13 PM appended by Mr. Z
http://books.google.com/books/about/All_the_Devils_Are_Here.html?id=VWyI9EAqpYsC
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 22, 11 8:13 PM
Your term of the day is:

Asset Bubble
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 22, 11 8:24 PM
I don't know what your squawking about Mr. Z it seems to me Joe gave you a complement ???
By Undocumented Democrat (1573), southampton on Jun 22, 11 10:15 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By HSA (68), southampton on Jun 23, 11 7:30 AM
ahhhh, when it comes to taking your money...you would like to clarify that the only people that should re-distribute their wealth are those that accumulated it by fraud, deception and malfeasant practices. funny how that happens.

now we are getting somewhere. of course you want to get paid and keep your money. thanks for being honest.

who is in charge of figuring out if the money someone earned was "amassed due to fraud, deception and malfeasant practices".

if the ...more
By HSA (68), southampton on Jun 23, 11 7:30 AM
It's actually the crux of the modern "economy".

Vehicles, investments, hedge funds, all these things they use to "hedge risk", meanwhile taking none whatsoever, since the Socialst bailout machine is there to cover their collective a$$es.

And, when you really turn the clock backward, and "folla' the dolla' ", you find that the wealth generated by these practices, is the same 3 out of 4 trickle down dollars, which financed most people's paychecks in the upper 10%. These are the ...more
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 23, 11 8:56 PM
who is in charge of figuring out if the money someone earned was "amassed due to fraud, deception and malfeasant practices".
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Jun 23, 11 9:06 PM
Apparently, no one.

That's most of the reason no one has gone to jail, and all Alan Greespan had to do was squirm in front of a Congressional Committee. But, I can say this, there are alot of rather learned people who said alot of things should have been regulated, and certain formulas only increased risk, and they were gagged, silenced, and told they had no idea what they were talking about. Brooksley Born is a fine example of a brilliant person whose warnings were unadulteratedly disregarded.

Someone ...more
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 23, 11 9:26 PM
no more queries..i can take it from here. you are all washed up sir. you have been outed as someone who has no real premise and no real foundation for your beliefs other than you are upset at people that have more than you. at every opportunity you spout absolute nonsense...go back and re-read what breathless responses you gave to very simple questions. 110% utter nonsense. now, you said something very telling...just because there is not a law saying its not a crime doesn't mean that it isn't. ...more
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Jun 24, 11 6:12 AM
1 member liked this comment
Well, I could boil this down for you.

If few in our society did not live so excessively, there would be much less, or Providence forbid, no need for charity. And "God willing" no poverty

You are willfully blind, or too entrenched in what your life is, to see the Catch-22 you so falsely identify with.

You know how "poverty" is created?

Greed..

Jun 24, 11 10:51 PM appended by Mr. Z
And for the record "sir": "you know nothing of me, or my work."
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 24, 11 10:51 PM
1 member liked this comment
Some people live in poverty through no fault of their own.

Other people live in poverty because they made poor choices.

Is your argument that under no circumstance, no matter what someone decides to do with their life, they should be insulated from the consequences of their decisions?
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Jun 24, 11 11:01 PM
1 member liked this comment
Uhhh, no.

And I quote my appendment...

There were persons, and reasons behind the "Great Depression". Very similar people, and one GLARING presence, if you have read your History, were responsible for a major economic crash not once, but TWICE in recent history.

Learn a bit more, and you may feel the same way about the whole "kit and caboodle".
Jun 24, 11 11:05 PM appended by Mr. Z
If you [expletive deleted] up, you should pay for it. NO ONE has gone to jail.
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 24, 11 11:05 PM
@ Reality:

Q: What human trait drives poor choices in MOST, not all cases?

A: Greed, and it's cohorts.
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 24, 11 11:19 PM
@ kaluss:

Do we have laws regarding crime, because they were pre-emptive, or do we have laws because someone actually committed such an act?
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 25, 11 1:39 PM
nice try.
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Jun 25, 11 3:33 PM
Well, here's another nice try.

Certain parties repealed laws that made behavior that caused the Great Depression illegal. Within 10 years of those repeals, the economy imploded.

You can pine all you want that you think you have "outed" me, but as I said, you know nothing of me, or my work. If I had all the loot from every car I've fixed for free, I'd have thousands because of it.

Step off, before you make a fool of yourself.
Jun 26, 11 11:15 AM appended by Mr. Z
Oh, and by your above rationale, murder would not be a crime against society, were there no prohibitive legislation regarding it.
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 26, 11 11:15 AM
1 member liked this comment
P.S.

Welcome to Rome.
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 26, 11 10:20 PM
This person was not denied a job because of race or being a woman, the position was eliminated, case closed. Where does it say that positions and employees can't be terminated at some point. Everyone who works in the public sector thinks that once they are hired the job is their for life. Wake up and smell the coffee people are losing jobs everywhere. I don't want my tax dollars used to employ people in positions that are not needed. Tough break, move on.
By maxwell (169), speonk on Jun 22, 11 12:48 PM
How long was she employeed for 2 years? Well I guess she is ENTITLED to a job and benefits for life.
By maxwell (169), speonk on Jun 22, 11 12:51 PM
1 member liked this comment
actually, she probably did this to herself! she was so good at making everything very fair, she said that fairness was her life's work. could it be that she was so effective that everything was pretty much as fair as it could be and there was no more opportunities to increase fairness. so, with everything perfectly fair, what is left for a person whose job description is to ensure fairness. there is a lot of unfairness in the world, everywhere you look, boom..there it is....as clear as day...unfairness. ...more
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Jun 22, 11 1:56 PM
update: some guy on main street just drove past me in a baby blue ferrari soft top. UNFAIR! Ms. Troge, call me!
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Jun 22, 11 1:58 PM
1 member liked this comment
folks, this is the final word on this topic and it is all you need to know. the very act of enforcing so called fairness will be unfair to somebody. so, there is an infinite loop of unfairness.

meaning, if affirmative action is effective at being fair for one person, it comes at the expense of another. and for that person, the act of enforcing fairness will be perceived as unfair and may be on its merits, in fact, unfair.

so, the people that support the enforcement of fairness ...more
By HSA (68), southampton on Jun 22, 11 6:12 PM
And when Gran pa told you nothing is for nothing and hard work and a solid reputation will win the day he was right.
By joe hampton (2971), south hampton on Jun 22, 11 10:10 PM
1 member liked this comment
Was that today's quote on your platitude of the day calendar?
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Jun 23, 11 8:30 AM
1 member liked this comment
what that on your extra weak comeback of the day calendar?
By local69 (65), southampton on Jun 23, 11 5:22 PM
Write your own material.
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Jun 23, 11 9:44 PM
1 member liked this comment
If it wasn't a Friday, I'd be mighty disappointed. The troll who uses teabagger all over the place (ooooh naughty), his name is a spoof on another person who posts here and is all about sarcastic hilarity has nathan. And indeed I do write my own material, which makes you and I the same in that respect.
By local69 (65), southampton on Jun 24, 11 10:14 AM
1 member liked this comment
Did you create that new username just to respond to my comment? I am flattered. So are you bigfresh, joe hampton, realitylast or one of the other lunatic teaparty crazies? (I didn't say bagger!) Yes, I am naughty!
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Jun 24, 11 2:26 PM
Affirmitive Action is nothing but legally sanctioned discrimination and as such does damage to those purportedly helped by it's implimentation. It enforces stereotypes. We have a 1/2 black president with a Muslim father and was raised by a single mother. If He could overcome this situation, we truly have become a post racial nation.
By bigfresh (3085), north sea on Jun 23, 11 3:27 PM
Like i have stated in the past having a job is a basic necessity. It’s a human right.
thats why for 63 years the govenment has stated that a right to a job is a matter of law !
The 1946 Employment Act and the 1978 Full Employment and Balanced Growth Act legally obligate the president and Congress to use all available means to achieve full employment.
You call it Redistrabution of wealth. I call it social justice. You go Darlen make um pay there fair shia.
By local 84 (310), riverhead on Jun 23, 11 3:35 PM
hahaha, if it ain't old junior jihadi himself..hahaha. like you've said before incorrectly... you couldn't find anything anywhere at anytime that states employment is a human right. sounds like your dream of social justice is in deep shiite. hahahahaha.
By local69 (65), southampton on Jun 23, 11 5:21 PM
seems the only thing we all agree on is Philathome and fake razza are desperate people
By They call me (2211), southampton on Jun 24, 11 9:39 PM
1 member liked this comment
I decided to put this post down here.

We have REPEATED HISTORY.

Doesn't that bother any of you?
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 24, 11 11:48 PM
If this is a "bad" economy, I can't wait until the rebound!

Back to the point of legalized, institutionalized descrimination.
By bigfresh (3085), north sea on Jun 25, 11 8:33 AM
Outside of your little, isolated sphere, it is.
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 25, 11 1:27 PM
1 member liked this comment
So, should we find ways to amend, and modernize affirmative action, or is it due to be repealed since our society has come so far in fifty years, or so?
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 25, 11 1:36 PM
to Mr. Z:

Compensatory discrimination is not only despicable but also unconstitutional so it cannot be used, period. However, discrimination on the basis of economic disadvantage is perfectly OK, as one of the Republican candidates for president has suggested. Any future attempts to raise the status of minorities should focus on this class.
By highhatsize (3361), East Quogue on Jun 25, 11 2:45 PM
What about affirmative action qualifies as compensatory discrimination? Specifically.
By cochise316 (58), southampton on Jun 26, 11 10:27 AM
to cochise136:

As I stated in my first post on this thread, "compensatory [racial] discrimination" is the original, descriptive title of what came to be known, euphemistically, as "Affirmative Action" for political reasons. As the title indicates, it discriminates in favor of minority members and against whites to rectify the racial discrimination of past generations.

I refer you to the example that I gave previously of racial discrimination in civil service wherein subjective ...more
By highhatsize (3361), East Quogue on Jun 26, 11 11:02 AM
Have you not noticed how the cost of aforementioned discrimination has transcended generations?

We still do have "ghettos" in this country. The sheer fact "poverty" has not been eliminated in this day and age, speaks volumes.
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 26, 11 10:23 PM
An example of compensatory discrimination is the NYC firefighter exam. White males are graded on their performance in both the physical and written tests. Minorities are given the same tests but receive "points" on the tests simply for not being a white male! The test discriminates against white males. No justice no peace!
By bigfresh (3085), north sea on Jun 26, 11 2:57 PM
3 members liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By cochise316 (58), southampton on Jul 2, 11 10:24 AM
Well, for there to be peace, we must solve the issue of "de pecuniae" segregation, first, and foremost.
Jun 27, 11 10:19 PM appended by Mr. Z
I TOLD YOU SO. : http://money.msn.com/exchange-traded-fund/is-water-the-new-gold-mirhaydari.aspx?GT1=33002
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 26, 11 10:19 PM
let me get this straight...its a beautiful sunny day, the beach is spectacular, the small of summer is wafting throughout the village...and this is the nonsense you are moved to vomit onto the internet?
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Jun 27, 11 10:15 AM
1 member liked this comment
no, that's not true, i mean, the white male speaking part is true, but no. and, you responded in kind. there is no reason for either of us to be grumpy on such a nice day. have a good one. but people aren't as bad as you think they are. the majority of people are kind and really mean well, that has been my experience.
By kaluss (113), Southampton on Jun 27, 11 1:27 PM
Show my quote that allegedly says I believe blacks aren't as smart as whites, you racist little weasel! You are the one who believes minorities can't make it on their own merits. F'in pathetic liberal blather.
By bigfresh (3085), north sea on Jun 27, 11 7:52 PM
2 members liked this comment
@ bigfresh:

Breast Cancer "charity" sued due to excessive compensation, and avarice.

What say you OPEN YOUR EYES to a wide angle lens?
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 28, 11 11:14 PM
Hahahaha....... Oh, Southampton....
By milkdilk (45), Southampton on Jun 28, 11 9:15 AM
Well, if you look up "microcosm" in the dictionary...
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 28, 11 11:17 PM
At the end of this long thread, two phenomena have become clear. The first is that white men are viscerally angry at being discriminated against racially. The second is that proponents of compensatory discrimination refuse to acknowledge the fact that it discriminates against whites.

Those examples of supposed non-discriminatory compensatory discrimination that have been listed such as having available jobs posted where the public rather than only civil service employees can see them ...more
By highhatsize (3361), East Quogue on Jun 29, 11 12:38 PM
1 member liked this comment
I liked the last paragraph.
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 29, 11 1:35 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By local 84 (310), riverhead on Jun 29, 11 9:18 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By local69 (65), southampton on Jun 30, 11 7:22 AM
I would tell you this (well written post by the way HHS); affirmative action as it is supposed to work does not offer comensatory discrimination. Affirmative action used to involve quotas and the like, that's been deemed illegal by the courts over the years. Not to say that quotas dont exist but they shouldnt.

Affirmative action should make sure that the best applicant gets the job. That's all anyone can hope for.
By cochise316 (58), southampton on Jul 2, 11 10:39 AM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By HSA (68), southampton on Jun 29, 11 9:40 PM
Ok, I''ll play pretend with you. Oh, Local 84, please, I give up just let the puppies and kids go unharmed, you're just too powerful for us, being on the poo poo side of the stick for a change is awful, you sure are right. here, take my ill gotten sheckles, they belong to you anyway, I need to make amends to right the wrongs ot the last 100 years of oppression. I remember how you schooled the entire city of Philadelphia. Now that was something, and because of your miraculous power and strength, ...more
By HSA (68), southampton on Jun 29, 11 9:40 PM
Hey 84, No you can't , Obamas entire campaign is based on demonizing the rich and blaming all of his disastrous failures on them. His stimulus program was merely a payoff for the unions who supported his election. As he admitted the other day, there were no shovel ready jobs.
84, my advice to you and your fellow democrats:
Get out of my wallet
Get out of my life
By 27dan (2188), Southampton on Jun 29, 11 9:43 PM
Your a funny little man Phil
By They call me (2211), southampton on Jun 30, 11 12:31 AM
oh but i do see where it started, FDR
By joe hampton (2971), south hampton on Jun 30, 11 9:26 PM
I am strongly considering buying local84 a subscription. Its a darn shame he doesn't have more than 2 comments per day.
By HSA (68), southampton on Jun 30, 11 5:27 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By local 84 (310), riverhead on Jun 30, 11 8:42 PM
less time on 27east and more time with your hookedonphonics program albert einstein.
By local69 (65), southampton on Jul 1, 11 6:12 AM
OK.

Here is the long, and short. A bunch of rich bankers blew up the world economy, and caused the "Great Depression".

A bunch of bankers lobbied the CFTC, then passed the GLBA, repealing the GSA '33, in 1998, and the "Great Recession" ensued within a decade.

All those of you who self identify with the upper 10%, because you manage to sustain some semblance of a life in some Fool's Gold microcosm, need to smell some roses...
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jun 30, 11 10:58 PM
Oh geez not again! A rant on Robber Barons and the repeal of the Glass Stegal Act. You are like a scratched CD that cant stop repeating itself
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Jul 1, 11 8:59 AM
1 member liked this comment
He has issues , Like his leader and chief cant stop playing the blame game
By joe hampton (2971), south hampton on Jul 1, 11 9:11 AM
Until someone goes to jail, and things aren't so slanted by deregulation, I will speak of it.

You're lucky this ain't Rolling Stone, or you'd really have something to b***h about...
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jul 2, 11 7:10 PM
Mr. Z, I've got 2 comments all day, but this is worthy. If you review, in this story alone, the insanity that your posts reflect after 10:30pm. As it gets later, your posts get nuttier. They take on some strange sense of knowing everything and the frustration that comes from knowing everything but being surrounded by those that don't. You should refrain from PWI, else we're going to start to call you mrzathome.
By local69 (65), southampton on Jul 1, 11 6:11 AM
2 members liked this comment
Well, for reference, I don't read Pro Wrestling Illustrated, nor do I have and partnerships with industry.

Looks like this is a good rolling thread to me. Lots of freelancing, and some communication between people who most lilkely would not "meet in the street". As "The Fixx" lyricized, "one thing leads to another".

As far as "knowing everything" , I'm working on that. Probably won't happen, but I'm going to soak up every bit of knowledge I can lay my mind on. I normally don't ...more
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jul 2, 11 7:21 PM
And how's that membership drive going ? The economic hiccup was caused in no small part by the fed. government acting on the notion that EVERYONE should own a home, didn't matter if the homeowner to be had no income, no credit and no down payment, it's all good, Fannie and Freddie ( taxpayers) will buy all the bad debt. Banks were forced to make bad loans and the government bought them, saddling us with the bill. That's a big part of it. Not everyone has the financial wherewithall to own a home, ...more
By bigfresh (3085), north sea on Jul 1, 11 5:41 PM
2 members liked this comment
Once again, you miss the reason behind why homes became so "unaffordable".

Carry on...
Jul 2, 11 7:12 PM appended by Mr. Z
Someday, you should look up how "new loans" create capital, and what happens when there is too much cash in the economy to support it's physical worth. Were it not for TARP, every major bank would have failed, because they did fail. On a massive level. Every dime of your "greatest year ever", flows from the pockets of the American Taxpayer, and was funded by the hijacking of our democracy by a select few to fund their own failure on a massive level. Who cares if it was "paid back with interest"? It's all a sham. The people cried out "NO" to Congress, yet the bailouts happened anyway, and a codicil prohibiting ANY prosection of the recipients of the bailouts was written into the less than 5 page bill. Of course, if there weren't a bailout, we'd be in line at the soup kitchen, and this would most likely be your WORST year ever. The asset bubble which pushed the cost of a home out of the reach of MILLIONS of "middle class" Americans was created BY THEM. MBS are BETTING on the dream of home ownership like it's a Vegas casino, for profit. They were part of what injected worthless money into the housing market. Millions jobless, millions of homeowners underwater, or foreclosed on because they were never worth their asking price in the firstplace. And that info is only the "tip of the iceberg". You call that a "hiccup"? You've surely proven your knowledgebase of the situation with that statement. Happy Fourth of July!
By Mr. Z (9648), North Sea on Jul 2, 11 7:12 PM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By NTiger (543), Southampton on Jul 2, 11 1:00 PM
1 member liked this comment
Remnants, area rugs, rolls in stock