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Apr 18, 2018 9:54 AMPublication: The Southampton Press

UPDATE: Hampton Bays Man Issued Six-Count Indictment From Stalking Incident At High School

Hampton Bays High School. FILE PHOTO
May 10, 2018 2:13 PM

UPDATE: Wednesday, May 10, 12:50 p.m.

Last Friday, Mr. Tuttle pleaded not guilty to a six-count indictment against him in Southampton Town Justice Court.

Two of the charges, fourth-degree stalking and second-degree criminal contempt, were added to the indictment in court.

The now six-count indictment includes unlawful possession of a weapon on school grounds, a felony, three counts of fourth-degree stalking, third-degree criminal trespass and second-degree criminal contempt.

According to documents, Mr. Tuttle was found to be in contempt of court after he disobeyed a temporary order of protection issued to him in person by Judge Andrea H. Schiavoni.

Sheila Kelly, the director of communications for District Attorney Timothy Sini, said on Thursday that the charge of seventh-degree criminal possession of a controlled substance, which Mr. Tuttle originally faced from the incident on April 19, was dropped.

He is due back in court on June 1.

ORIGINAL STORY:

An armed Hampton Bays man was arrested by Southampton Town Police last week after reportedly stalking a Hampton Bays High School employee at a lacrosse game held at the high school on April 17.

At approximately 3 p.m., police responded to the Argonne Road school’s athletic field and determined that Todd Tuttle, 46, who had said he was watching his son play lacrosse, did not have a son on the team, according to a press release.

Mr. Tuttle was found to have a loaded rifle in his vehicle, which was parked in the school’s parking lot, and a loaded magazine in his pants pocket, police said.

A school employee reported that Mr. Tuttle had been repeatedly stalking her over the past several weeks following a “domestic conflict.”

He was arrested on Tuesday, April 17, at the high school and charged with unlawful possession of a weapon on school grounds, a felony, and third-degree criminal trespass and fourth-degree stalking, both misdemeanors.

When reached on Tuesday, Superintendent Lars Clemensen said the issue “had been developing over the past couple of weeks.” He declined to say if the school employee, whose son plays on the school’s lacrosse team, was present at the time of the incident.

On Wednesday, April 18, the school was placed on a “modified lockdown” for approximately two hours while police completed a search of the athletic field.

Mr. Tuttle was arrested again on April 19 at 11:27 p.m. at the Shell gas station in Hampton Bays after violating a stay-away order of protection issued by Southampton Town Justice Court on April 18, according to a police report. He was charged with seventh-degree criminal possession of a controlled substance, fourth-degree stalking and second-degree criminal contempt, all misdemeanors.

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Loaded gun. School property. Go to jail for a long while please, don’t pass go.
Can we please ask what Zeldin thinks about this? Pleaseeeeee, ASAP?
By Brandon Quinn (137), Hampton Bays on Apr 19, 18 12:30 AM
2 members liked this comment
/\ Zeldin Derangement Syndrome. Everything bad in life is his congressional representatives fault.
By even flow (626), East Hampton on Apr 19, 18 3:39 AM
2 members liked this comment
Zeldin co-sponsored the Reciprocal Concealed Reciprocity Act, which would allow anyone with an out of state concealed carry permit to come close to school property with a concealed gun. Moreover, the act would override the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act, which protects our schools at the federal level. Almost no one in our community supports Zeldin’s Bill. Zeldin sold us out for cash from the NRA and its affiliates.
By Bayman (14), Hampton Bays on Apr 19, 18 10:42 AM
1 member liked this comment
The Gun-Free School Zones Act does no such thing as protecting our schools. If anything, it creates a zone whereby criminals know they have a soft target.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 19, 18 11:00 AM
So your proposition is that schools would be safer if they weren't gun-free zones? Is there any data to support that conclusion?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 19, 18 11:06 AM
1 member liked this comment
My proposition is that schools aren't necessarily safer as gun-free zones and the statement by Bayman that the GFZ Act "protects our schools" isn't necessarily accurate. Period.

As evidence, I'll throw out there the 2014 study by John Lott that found that 98.4 percent of mass public shootings from 1950 to July 2016 occurred in gun-free zones.

By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 20, 18 9:18 AM
So would that number, or the total number of casualties, go up or down if they weren't gun-free school zones?

Is it better to be potentially safer than definitely less safe?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 20, 18 10:10 AM
I don't know Mr. Hand, but I believe critics would argue it's not potentially safer nor definitely less safe.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 20, 18 10:19 AM
Well, we do know that places with less guns are associated with less gun casualties and vice versa, so...
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 20, 18 10:22 AM
I don't think that's necessarily accurate, Wyoming has the most guns but is 11 in gun deaths, but more cars might mean more vehicle casualties, too I suppose.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 20, 18 10:28 AM
"Using survey data on rates of household gun ownership, we examined the association between gun availability and homicide across states, 2001-2003. We found that states with higher levels of household gun ownership had higher rates of firearm homicide and overall homicide."

Miller, Matthew; Azrael, Deborah; Hemenway, David. State-level homicide victimization rates in the U.S. in relation to survey measures of household firearm ownership, 2001-2003. Social Science and Medicine. 2007
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 20, 18 10:43 AM
Yeah, I get it, more cars equals more car deaths. But Fore, you're conveniently (and yet again) shifting the topic to a modicum of data that supports your shift - by the way, admitting they can't account for causation...we're talking Gun Free Zones...focus.

"2014 study by John Lott that found that 98.4 percent of mass public shootings from 1950 to July 2016 occurred in gun-free zones."
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 20, 18 1:04 PM
Actually, that study was about rates of homicide, so the correct metaphor would be "more cars equals a higher rate of car deaths"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 20, 18 1:12 PM
Care to show the correlation to car free zones?
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 20, 18 1:22 PM
It's your metaphor to run with.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 20, 18 1:35 PM
No comment on the study that places 98.4 percent of mass public shootings from 1950 to July 2016 occurred in gun-free zones?

Ok.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 20, 18 2:18 PM
None, since that doesn't support your premise that abolishing gun free zones would prevent gun deaths.

But then again, that's not even your premise, right?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 20, 18 2:57 PM
Come now Fore, it's 98.4 percent for jiminy sake, and if you track back to my original statement, you'll see exactly what my premise is.

I have yet to see one iota of evidence that gun free zones ------> protect our schools. I can cite example after example of the failure of GFZs to protect our schools. The only people who it is protecting from, is the law abiding. See a pattern developing....YET!
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 20, 18 3:14 PM
Despite whatever pattern you think you see, I don't think we'll see school gun-free zones going any where, probably because it wouldn't make the kids safer, and instead would likely make them less safe.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 20, 18 3:40 PM
No, it's simply political feel good by those that support Gun-Free-Zones, and politically hazardous to those that don't...like most people control...I mean gun control. In reality, it only impacts the law abiding.

98 percent of mass shootings happen in Gun-Free-Zones. Are you saying we'd have EVEN MORE mass shootings if it weren't for GFZs? PLEASE!!!!
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 20, 18 9:27 PM
I think more people would be victims of gun violence in schools if they weren't gunfree school zones.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 20, 18 9:40 PM
Yes, the Gun-Free-Zone signs are very foreboding.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 20, 18 9:49 PM
Which is another way of saying "I can't prove abolishing gun free school zones makes anyone more safe"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 20, 18 10:19 PM
It's incomprehensible that someone intent on committing murder, would give a rats behind about whether it's a Gun-Free-Zone, or not.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 20, 18 10:21 PM
As if more guns on school grounds would lead to less gun crime.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 20, 18 10:25 PM
Well, incomprehensible, to most apparently.

More good guys with guns, yes. Criminals, not so much.

Get it? No. I didn't think so.

By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 20, 18 10:27 PM
So that's your premise? More guns on school grounds will lead to less gun deaths?

As if a good guy with a gun never decided to do something bad.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 21, 18 6:49 AM
Wait. Aren't you the guy all for arming former military and putting them in schools? WTF?
Apr 22, 18 6:03 PM appended by Po Boy
Me? I just don't think schools are necessarily safer as gun-free zones.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 22, 18 6:03 PM
Yeah, as their JOB, not as hobbyist John Waynes looking to turn a basketball game into the OK corral.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 22, 18 7:54 PM
1 member liked this comment
Had to like that cuz it made me giggle my ass off.

What would lead you to think Negation of a Gun-Free-Zones doesn't mean all guns allowed? Perplexing.

You remember the guy in Parkland whose JOB is was who had a gun chose not to engage a shooter, right?
Apr 22, 18 9:10 PM appended by Po Boy
What would lead you to think that schools aren't currently the "Wild West."
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 22, 18 9:10 PM
....and even MORE perplexing...going to add, what makes you think LEGAL gun owners would turn basketball games into the OK corral??
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 22, 18 9:17 PM
I guess you didn't read the article about the basketball game that descended into a fistfight?

It's a simple inference from "more guns = more gun deaths"
Apr 22, 18 10:51 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Also, what does this mean: "What would lead you to think Negation of a Gun-Free-Zones doesn't mean all guns allowed?"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 22, 18 10:51 PM
Glossed right over that last point about employing and arming veterans in schools, didn't you. Not for that any longer?

I'm well aware of the incident. How do you know none of them didn't have guns? Answer, you don't.

Gun Free Zones do not protect schools.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 23, 18 10:06 AM
I don't think I did, unless you think there's no difference between a combat veteran employed as security and a John Doe spectating a school function.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 23, 18 10:12 AM
There is no difference. Legally carrying a firearm comes with enormous responsibility no matter who it is.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 23, 18 10:28 AM
And who is more likely to successfully and safely carry that enormous responsibility, a combat veteran or some random member of the gun-owning public?
Apr 23, 18 10:37 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
I'm having a hard time believing that you really think someone who has been deployed in a combat zone and someone who picked up their first gun should get the same kind of deference when it comes to guns.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 23, 18 10:37 AM
It's moments like this that your inexperience is evident. Certainly, not much time at the range, that's fo sho.

I have no idea what you mean by "successfully" as it relates to the average citizen, but safety is a standard for those who accept the enormous responsibility to personally carry.

So, if an incident occurred, it could be one or the other, or BOTH... the citizen watching any given school event and/or the veteran dong his job...certainly the citizen carrying isn't everywhere, ...more
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 23, 18 12:41 PM
You think someone that bought a gun yesterday and someone who has been deployed have an equal chance of misusing their firearm, got it.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 23, 18 12:49 PM
YOU think they aren't equal and have to introduce extremes to make your point. Got it!
Apr 23, 18 1:17 PM appended by Po Boy
Hysterical to see you go from "random member of the gun-owning public" to "bought the gun yesterday"....LMAO! Democrats really are more dangerous than guns and there is living proof.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 23, 18 1:17 PM
Ok, "could have bought the gun yesterday"

Next you'll say that CCW requirements are sufficient to prevent any incidents while simultaneously advocating for reciprocity with states that have practically-nonexistent minimum qualifications.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 23, 18 1:30 PM
ahhhh,"prevent any incidents".... riiighhtt.....

Apr 23, 18 3:18 PM appended by Po Boy
Why is it you want guarantees for a situation you think I'd argue for, but not demand the same of yourself? You've yet to prove the Gun Free Zones guarantee protection - they don't!
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 23, 18 3:18 PM
Places with more guns have more gun deaths.

Schools have less guns as gun-free zones than if they weren't.

Easy as pie.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 23, 18 3:30 PM
But you can't have your cake and eat it, too.98% of mass shootings have taken place in Gun Free Zones. You would think (following your logic) because as we know, no one carries a gun in a Gun Free Zone (LOL), that would be zero percent, now wouldn't you? Perhaps there is a flaw there somewhere. Not to mention, that certainly takes using armed veterans off the table.

It's easy to see the Left's grander plan when the "places with more guns have more gun deaths" argument is made. Goodbye ...more
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 24, 18 8:04 AM
Your understanding is wrong.

The question you should ask is "would there be more or less guns on campus if it wasn't a gunfree zone?"
Apr 24, 18 8:14 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
You also don't understand that the concept of gun-free zones does not extend now, nor has it ever, to people EMPLOYED for the purpose of SECURITY.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 24, 18 8:14 AM
Hardly, and what a BS question.... clearly, if "Gun Free" were removed, there MAY be more guns on campus. The natural response and given we'll assume they are law abiding, is, "So what!"

I understand the concept of GFZ's and security Captain Obvious, I simply don't understand the double talk that "Places with more guns have more gun deaths" but some guns are ok, and others aren't. A good guy with a gun... IS A GOOD GUY WITH A GUN!



Apr 24, 18 9:13 AM appended by Po Boy
You must think a "good guy with a gun really isn't a good guy with a gun.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 24, 18 9:13 AM
The school deciding who can have a gun on campus by employing them for security purposes is preferable.

A good guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun until he's not.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 24, 18 9:52 AM
"A good guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun until he's not", includes security at schools does it not? What you're suggesting hasn't been the problem. Seems to me, it's predominantly the bad guy with a gun, it's the criminal who doesn't follow the law - and why Gun Free Zones don't work.

I wonder if Aaron Feis the teacher who died shielding students in Parkland who had a concealed carry permit would agree with you.

By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 24, 18 10:34 AM
That does include security, the upside being that the school gets to screen and choose who their security guards are.

Whether coach Feis should have been armed is also far too narrow a question. The better one is "if school teachers were allowed to CCW would more or less gun deaths happen in school?"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 24, 18 11:01 AM
So, what you're saying is it is the individual, and not the gun that is ultimately held responsible. Good to know. BTW, I don't think the school makes that choice, I'm pretty sure that would be done by the security firm who has the contract with the school.

I didn't ask whether Aaron Feis should have been armed, I asked if he would agree with your assessment that "A good guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun until he's not".


By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 24, 18 11:24 AM
So, what you're saying is it is the individual, and not the gun that is ultimately held responsible. Good to know. BTW, I don't think the school makes that choice, I'm pretty sure that would be done by the security firm who has the contract with the school.

I didn't ask whether Aaron Feis should have been armed, I asked if he would agree with your assessment that "A good guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun until he's not".


By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 24, 18 11:33 AM
And the school gets to choose the security firm and set the terms of the contract. Tomato tomato.

As for what coach Feis would think of the statement, that's an even narrower, somehow more-irrelevant question.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 24, 18 12:02 PM
Security will be the first target. Then what when they are confronted with superior firepower? Lambs to slaughter is ok with you?
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 24, 18 12:53 PM
What a strange straw man to string up.

The only guns in schools should be those explicitly sanctioned for the purpose of employed security because it strikes a balance between a soft target and a free-for-all.
Apr 24, 18 1:40 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
If by "superior firepower" you mean allow that combat vet security professional to carry a military-style semi-automatic rifle, why not?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 24, 18 1:40 PM
You consider 98% of mass shootings occurring in Gun Free Zones, a straw man?

Wow. Speechless.

You expect a lot of, in most cases, what will be a lone security officer, they can't be everywhere. Any expectation otherwise is leading lambs to slaughter.
Apr 24, 18 1:55 PM appended by Po Boy
I write "confronted with superior firepower" and you hear "If by "superior firepower" you mean allow that combat vet security professional to carry a military-style semi-automatic rifle, why not?" I see, you want schools to turn into armed camps. That'll work well with the kids and parents.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 24, 18 1:55 PM
As opposed to the free-for-all you're advocating for? Yes, that'd be preferable.
Apr 24, 18 1:58 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Funny thing about that 98% statistic: apparently it includes Fort Hood and the Washington Navy Yard as "gun-free zones." How many guns do you think are at those sites?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 24, 18 1:58 PM
People carry concealed all the time. Where is the free-for-all you speak of??

I don't think there were many guns other than security at Fort Hood and the Navy Yard. It's a violation of yet another failed law that generally prohibits guns on military installations. Thanks for making my point... YET AGAIN!
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 24, 18 4:27 PM
Sorry, most people wouldn't consider military installations "gun-free zones"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 24, 18 4:36 PM
No apology necessary. I'm glad to see you doing research. But yet, they are, no different than any school.



Apr 24, 18 10:00 PM appended by Po Boy
I'm still interested in what you would site as this "free-for-all" should a Gun-Free-Zone no longer be in place. People carry legally all the time, what evidence do you have that it is a free-for-all?
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 24, 18 10:00 PM
The free-for-all doesn't refer to a shootout, it refers to the decision of who is allowed to have a gun on campus being taken out of the school's hand.

That free-for-all would result in more gun deaths. My evidence is that places with more guns have more gun deaths.

Also, your 98% number ignores instances where other crimes were committed so, for example, if the stalker at HB had used the gun in his truck to kill ten people it wouldn't have been a "mass shooting" by your definition.

Basically, ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 6:12 AM
Ok, back pedaling from the free-for-all statement...So, how is someone carrying concealed taking something out of the schools hand? Picture this, lunch recess or sporting event on a playground...carnage begins...no security around (or at all)...passerby or attendee is carrying concealed (in a school zone) and is able to stop the carnage...how is that a bad thing?

Ok, you're also back pedaling on the FACTS of the 98% figure because you don't like the FACT that 98% of mass shootings occur ...more
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 25, 18 7:55 AM
Because that fringe scenario doesn't outweigh the harm that would come from anyone being allowed to carry on campus at any given time.

Your 98% number has holes in it the size of Texas, that's all.

But even taking it for granted, it's funny how "more mass shootings happen in gun-free zones" turns into "gun-free zones don't protect anyone"...are mass shootings suddenly the only incidents that result in gun deaths?

Fact: Places with more guns have more gun deaths.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 8:16 AM
So boiling it down, give me a scenario you don't consider fringe? The scenario I gave ACTUALLY HAPPENED!

What holes? Since 1950, more than 98 percent of public mass shootings in America have taken place where citizens are banned from carrying guns.

To your point..."But even taking it for granted..." laughably, you have the flow REVERSED...I first said, "gun-free zones don't protect anyone" and when you prompted for "data" I cited the 98% figure. HUGE difference...

Fact: ...more
Apr 25, 18 8:30 AM appended by Po Boy
BTW, I would suggest that "Places with more guns have more gun deaths" is NOT universally accurate and looks at general parameters such as states, homes, cities and regions... NOT EVERYDAY LIFE as we know it in Gun-Free- Zones and concealed carry.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 25, 18 8:30 AM
The holes refer to the definitions of "gun-free zone" and "mass shooting" used in the research. A military base is not gun-free and a mass shooting conducted in the course of another crime is still a mass shooting. If a mass shooting happens in a private home, it's still a mass shooting unlike the research you cite seems to believe.

Lol, now instead of "gun-free zones don't protect anyone" it's "places with guns also save lives."

In any event, even if more "mass shootings" happen ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 8:40 AM
Twist and turn, dodge and weave... rinse and repeat.

Would it make you "feel" better if the statistic that 98% of mass shooting occur in Gun-Free-Zones, is 90% rather than 98%. Is that it?

Not "instead of "gun-free zones don't protect anyone" it's "places with guns also save lives." in ADDITION TO... it's free and a bonus!

Personally, I'm not going to play prognosticator. I do know that when the crap hits the fan, it's ALWAYS a good guy with a gun that ends it in some ...more
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 25, 18 8:48 AM
That the 98% number is trash doesn't suddenly render 90% factual.

If we must settle on a number: Since the pro-gun research says 98% and the anti-gun research says 13%, I'd be willing to accept a number that bridges the gap, so around 55.5%

Sure, a good guy with a gun is ideal in that situation, and more than one ideally. However, revoking gun-free zones doesn't guarantee the people carrying without consequence are good guys.

That good guy should be someone screened and ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 9:01 AM
Yeah... no. I'm not one to pick numbers out of thin air. No idea what the "anti-gun research" even means.

Wannabe-vigilante...LOL...Oye.

Hey, sure, put security in schools, I'm all for it. But you continue to look for "guarantees" having mentioned it numerous times. Here's a guarantee for you ... 100% of incidents have ended as a result of a good guy with a gun.

By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 25, 18 11:35 AM
Nobody is looking for guarantees, just better odds, and I've only used the word once after you insinuated revoking gun-free zones would unquestionably result in more "good guys": "revoking gun-free zones doesn't guarantee the people carrying without consequence are good guys"

The research you cited was prepared by an institution with pro-gun views, while the research I cited was prepared by an institution with anti-gun views.

Yours used definitions of "mass shooting" and "gun-free ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 11:44 AM
So stop using the word "guarantee"...more than once.

I'm all ears on your research, you simply haven't stated it in an understandable manner other than "the anti-gun research says 13%."

No, I don't see how it's favorable. The 98% is clearly identifying Gun Free Zones to which military bases fall into. Fact is, military can not generally carry personal weapons on base. They are prohibited., just schools are, just as most Federal Buildings are.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 25, 18 3:40 PM
Most readers would be wary of research that purposely narrow or widen definitions to meet their desired outcomes. Characterizing military bases as gun-free is simply not credible.

The research that found 13% of mass shootings happen in gun-free zones was conducted by the pro-gun control group Everytown for Gun Safety. It also found 70% of them happen in private homes, all of which were excluded by the research that settled on the 98% number.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 3:53 PM
Well, according to the definition of a GFZ, military bases have been included.

What Is a ‘Gun-Free Zone,’ and What’s Behind the Movement to Get Rid of Them?
Your guide to one of the most heated topics in the gun debate.
KERRY SHAW
March 16, 2017
Apr 28, 18 4:07 PM appended by Po Boy
Adding to clarify there isn't an accepted standard definition of a GFZ but noting military installations are included in the list of locations that can be considered a GFZ. I'd argue that the presence of armed security is not the defining characteristic of a GFZ, but the fact that the average citizen is prohibited from carrying at the site. Here's some of that "common sense" we've heard about lately comes into play.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 28, 18 4:07 PM
I guess there's just not enough good guys with guns at military bases in your opinion?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 28, 18 7:56 PM
No, the good guys just aren't permitted to have their guns.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 28, 18 8:18 PM
Oooh, so the ones patrolling with guns aren't good guys?

Or there just aren't enough of them?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 29, 18 7:51 AM
"I guess there's just not enough good guys with guns at military bases in your opinion?"

Were you saying "the ones patrolling" aren't good guys? Or that we need more of them?
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 1:10 PM
I'm saying there is a plethora of good guys with guns at military bases, and that this simple fact renders their inclusion on the list of "gun-free zones" as deceiving.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 1:36 PM
But yet the School Gun Free Zone Act which creates schools as GFZs notes and exempts armed personnel in the actual legislation...but yet...They're still Gun Free Zones.

Go figure!
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 2:52 PM
Do schools or military bases have more good guys with guns?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 2:58 PM
I guess that would depend on who calls in sick that day...Don't play games.

The point you're painfully attempting to avoid is, Gun Free Zones potentially do have armed personnel at them in the form of security. Some do....some don't.
Apr 30, 18 11:12 PM appended by Po Boy
But as made evident in the Gun Free Zone school legislation, the precedent exists that Gun Free Zones, can in fact have armed security....regardless, and 98% of mass shooting since 1959 took place at Gun Free Zones
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 11:12 PM
Or 17% if you don't consider a place with ample armed security gun-free.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 1, 18 5:21 AM
Or as identified in the Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990 that a Gun Free Zone could in fact, have guns by the very people you refuse to accept as being exempted...but yet...it remains by law in this case...a GUN FREE ZONE.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 1, 18 12:47 PM
Also 17% if you don't think think mass shootings in private homes should be excluded.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 1, 18 1:04 PM
Yeah, damn the closest thing to accepted definition there is.

There is another name for "private home murders"... domestic violence. Anyone that wants to include domestic violence in the same context as murders in schools simply wants to avoid the issue and problem.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 1, 18 1:30 PM
Yeah, damn the closest thing to accepted definition there is.

There is another name for "private home murders"... domestic violence. Anyone that wants to include domestic violence in the same context as murders in schools simply wants to avoid the issue and problem.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 1, 18 1:30 PM
So if a shooter finds a random house full of people and kills them all with a gun it's not a mass shooting?

Alright then.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 1, 18 3:27 PM
It would... and it would fall outside the realm of the 98% of mass shootings occurring in Gun Free Zones.

That's also an example that's NOT attributable to domestic violence. See how easy it is to slice and dice data!!!
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 1, 18 7:49 PM
Except the research that you cite doesn't count that type of event, merely because it happened in a private home. That's why you should pick data less susceptible to debunking!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 1, 18 8:02 PM
Like any data...different data points give context to issues. I have no problem with that.

98% of mass shootings still take place in what can easily be considered Gun Free Zones and 13% of mass shootings take place in households if it (so be it) is chosen to include domestic violence in the data - if I got your stat correct. And?
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 2, 18 2:07 PM
Actually, the stat is "17% of mass shootings take places in places that are gun-free"
May 2, 18 2:27 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
I'm sorry, that's wrong, it's: 10% of mass shootings from 09-16 took place in “gun-free zones”, or areas where civilians are prohibited from carrying firearms and there is not a regular armed law enforcement presence (armed security guards, for example). The vast majority of incidents—63 percent—took place entirely in private homes.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 2, 18 2:27 PM
The 98% stat is supportable by data...it's all readily available - as it all is.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 4, 18 9:14 AM
As is the fact that 10% of mass shootings from 2009-2016 took place in “gun-free zones”, or areas where civilians are prohibited from carrying firearms and there is not a regular armed law enforcement presence (armed security guards, for example). The vast majority of incidents—63 percent—took place entirely in private homes.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 4, 18 9:19 AM
Yeah, I get it, private homes...domestic violence where 54% involved a partner or famility member... a whole different animal.

Not public. Behind closed doors.

Certainly if the issue of school mass shooting, or public mass shootings, or work place mass shooting is intended to be clouded, have at it!
May 4, 18 3:25 PM appended by Po Boy
Certainly....the two worlds do sometimes collide!!
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 4, 18 3:25 PM
which is exactly what I'm saying the 98% number does by including places where good guys with guns abound as "gun-free"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 4, 18 3:34 PM
The SHPD reacted swiftly and apprehended the perp as they should have done. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot does this have to do with Congress?
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Apr 19, 18 6:06 AM
2 members liked this comment
It involves congress because: Zeldin co-sponsored the Reciprocal Concealed Reciprocity Act, which would allow anyone with an out of state concealed carry permit to come close to school property with a concealed gun. Moreover, the act would override the federal Gun-Free School Zones Act, which protects our schools at the federal level. Almost no one in our community supports Zeldin’s Bill. Zeldin sold us out for cash from the NRA and its affiliates
By Bayman (14), Hampton Bays on Apr 19, 18 10:42 AM
FACT: Concealed carry permit holder commit crime at rates significantly less than the general population. Concealed carry permit holder commit crime at a lower rate than even police officers.

You are part of the movement that ultimately seeks to strip citizens of their 2nd Amendment right to bear arms. Incrementally, step by step, until the right is extinguished. You think you're trading a fundamental liberty in exchange for safety, it will not.
By MoronEliminator (115), Montauk on Apr 19, 18 10:50 AM
Oklahoma is not better-suited to decide who should CCW in New York than New York.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 19, 18 11:15 AM
Hey Moron El, I am a citizen who owns two shotguns. I’m not part of any movement. You seem fine if out-of-towners come to our community with their concealed guns, but most all of us don’t want it. So Zeldin either sponsored this bill because he agrees with you (a fringe minority) or he did for money. Either way he has to go.
By Bayman (14), Hampton Bays on Apr 19, 18 2:05 PM
1 member liked this comment
"Oklahoma is not better-suited to decide who should CCW in New York than New York."

Then why do you use the argument that gun laws in Georgia should be changed. Aren't Georgians best suited to decide that?
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 20, 18 9:29 AM
It's actually the same concept: lax gun laws regarding possession OR ccw in one state would negatively impact other states.

In the absence of a universal Federal standard, it doesn't make sense that Georgia should be able to set a lower bar to possession/ccw in NY than NY.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 20, 18 9:38 AM
It makes perfect sense that George is entitled to set it's own bar, just as all 50 state do. "The same concept" is that CCW could benefit others, as ME indicated.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 20, 18 10:22 AM
Sure, CCW would benefit others in the same way those Georgia handguns in Staten Island did.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 20, 18 10:44 AM
You continue to be unable to grasp the concept and distinct difference between the law abiding (CCW holders) vs. criminal (gun traffickers).

By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 20, 18 12:55 PM
And you don't seem to grasp that there's a strong correlation between lax gun laws and gun crime.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 20, 18 1:10 PM
1 member liked this comment
I correlation it just fine. Criminal commit crimes. It's that simple. There is a flip side to that correlation...law abiding gun owners.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 20, 18 1:24 PM
I have no grasp of what you intended to convey with that statement so I'll borrow one from you: "can you speak American?"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 20, 18 1:36 PM
1 member liked this comment
Even at home!
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 20, 18 2:16 PM
Fact: gun owners make more mistakes with guns than non gun owners.

By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (489), southampton on Apr 21, 18 7:27 AM
1 member liked this comment
"Fact: gun owners make more mistakes with guns than non gun owners."

Dumbest post I have read in a long while.
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on Apr 22, 18 8:30 PM
The laws are in place, lets see if the lawyers take a plea deal or prosecute according to the law. Taking a gun on school property is a law...
By knitter (1198), Southampton on Apr 19, 18 8:11 AM
Shocker. The three year soap opera of a school coach, a teacher, and two others I guess has come to a head. This nonsense has been the talk of the town, and everyone knew except school administrators. Is the coach being suspended? Go ahead blame guns don't blame humans making bad decisions. Don't blame administrators who should get off their butts and intervene.
By chief1 (2432), southampton on Apr 19, 18 11:09 AM
1 member liked this comment
Soap opera is tame compared to what's been happening! I hope the people who were vicious enough to engage in their acts get punished.
By LovedHerTown (120), southampton on Apr 19, 18 12:01 PM
Chief1: Please tell me more about this 3 year soap opera.
By P. Revere (81), hampton Bays on Apr 19, 18 1:22 PM
2 members liked this comment
Here we go again with the gun control weirdos. Gun-Free School Zones Acts do not prevent emotionally disturbed people from stalking with guns...period. The objective is to scare, intimidate, and have a sense of power over the victim. Doesn't matter one bit where the act of stalking/gun toting is taking place. Lee Zeldin has nothing to do with it and the school administrators have nothing to do with it. This is a sick, psychopath who obviously doesn't know right from wrong. Soap operas, Zones acts....Jeez, ...more
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on Apr 19, 18 10:56 PM
But the increased penalty for being at a school with a weapon may certainly have consequences going forward. A butthead being a butthead will now be on much thinner legal ice and may not be back for a longer while than if that butthead was unarmed.
By VOS (1065), WHB on Apr 21, 18 12:33 AM
Cucks? That lingo is used by people on the fringe far right. Favorite word of people like Richard Spencer. Thanks for tipping your hand.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on Apr 20, 18 5:48 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on Apr 20, 18 4:20 PM
P Revere. Suppose to do....... A long standing triangle known by everyone. Not illegal but could of been disastrous if this person was a serious shooter. Blame the guns not the immoral actions. Not judging just giving facts.
By chief1 (2432), southampton on Apr 20, 18 7:20 AM
Another unhinged gun nut. It's only a matter of time people. Put your families first!
By johnj (795), Westhampton on Apr 20, 18 11:08 AM
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This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on Apr 22, 18 8:32 PM
Put your family's 1st? This is a dispute between 2 families that are evidently cheating on each other. What the h*** does this have to do with guns. This actually makes the point of morale's and morals being destroyed in this country. I heard the police have the school under lockdown even today. Evidently this little soap operas been coming to a head for the last couple years affecting kids that are in both families. Allegedly one of the adults involved is a teacher at the school. Allegedly the ...more
By chief1 (2432), southampton on Apr 20, 18 11:32 AM
Did you really just ask what an article about a guy at a school with a gun have to do with guns? When you thank God that he didn't hurt someone, you want to take a wild guess what he was going to use?
By SlimeAlive (811), Southampton on Apr 22, 18 7:40 AM
1 member liked this comment
What kind of world do we live in when you can force your love on to the estranged wife of your wife's lover ? As the Bays Turns !!!!!!
By patrick61 (18), Hampton Bays on Apr 21, 18 10:55 AM
Come on... you missed the perfect pun: "Bays of Our Lives"
By Pacman (112), Southampton on Apr 26, 18 11:15 AM
1 member liked this comment
this comment thread is hilarious. The fact that people are trying to debate whether or not the children of HBHS would be safer if this lunatic didn’t have a loaded gun is scary. Sick actually
By Brandon Quinn (137), Hampton Bays on Apr 21, 18 12:27 PM
Just noticed that the Press censors haven't enabled comments on the article, "Multiple Drug, Alcohol Arrests Made In Police Enforcement Detail Friday Night".

Uh-oh.
By highhatsize (3525), East Quogue on Apr 22, 18 8:00 AM
This guy is surely unhinged and there are plenty of things he could of done to harm himself or others. The point is why did it ever get to this point? Everyone knew of this nonsense why didn't someone intervene? Where was the school? Kids in schools have some real problems and it's a shame these parents have let their kids be involved in their mess.
By chief1 (2432), southampton on Apr 22, 18 9:52 AM
1 member liked this comment
That’s not the point. At all. A gun nut with a loaded gun brought said loaded gun onto school grounds. This is not up for debate. If you gun owners want to be taken seriously you need to come to terms with the problems guns are causing. Explaining that this incident had nothing to do with guns is not helping your cause, and it’s totally transparent.
By SlimeAlive (811), Southampton on Apr 23, 18 7:28 AM
Is everyone who owns a gun a "gun nut"?
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on Apr 23, 18 6:58 PM
Of course not!? How ridiculous would that be? Isn’t this an article about a specific person? It’s not about all gun owners. Are all drivers nuts because the van in Canada was driven by a terrorist?
By SlimeAlive (811), Southampton on Apr 24, 18 6:48 AM
Your premise is fatally flawed. There have been school shootings as long as there have been guns.

November 12, 1840, Charlottesville, VA: John Anthony Gardner Davis, a law professor at the University of Virginia, was shot by student Joseph Semmes, and died from his wound three days later.


January 21, 1860 Todd County, Kentucky A son of Col. Elijah Sebree was killed by another student. Young Sebree was threatening the other boy and said he intended to kill him. The other student ...more
Apr 24, 18 6:54 AM appended by SlimeAlive
US School shootings have an entry in wikipedia. these are the a couple of early ones. I didn't cherry pick...there are thousands since the 1800s. THIS IS NOTHING NEW.
By SlimeAlive (811), Southampton on Apr 24, 18 6:54 AM
That's it? Two cases of the murder of one person over personal disputes 20 years apart that could have happened anywhere are akin today's mass school shootings? Stretch much?
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Apr 24, 18 10:29 AM
The first statement...... I went to school in SH and never encountered trouble with a gun or the amount of anger that is publicly expressed these days. my school days were 1938-1952.
By summertimegal (81), southampton on May 4, 18 10:11 AM
It's easy to tell who owns guns. They are the ones suggesting this story, about a guy with a gun, has nothing to do with guns. And that the nut with the gun is not a gun nut but a different kind of plain, generic nut who doesn't require any reference to the gun for which he was arrested - because he was carrying it loaded on school grounds looking for an ex.

By SlimeAlive (811), Southampton on Apr 23, 18 7:09 AM
1 member liked this comment
SlimeAlive gets the award for "Best 27East Filibusterer". Typical liberal move and one that's old and tired. Suppose this quack didn't own a gun and showed up to the school in a rented van (Toronto anyone)? Just sitting and waiting for his perfect opportunity to mow down his target and a few others. Sounds the same as a gun, no? Just with a different tool. The problem is crazy people...not guns. Like I've said before: Guns kill people like spoons made Rosie O'Donnell fat!
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on Apr 23, 18 9:59 PM
Coincidentally, you need a license which requires testing, as well as insurance to rent a van.

If you want to own one there's also registration and regular inspection requirements.

You really want to avoid the car comparisons, they really don't help you like you think they do.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 6:55 AM
So even after all that licensing... and testing... and insurance... it still happens.

Who would have thought?
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 25, 18 11:23 AM
So in the absence of testing, licensing, insurance, registration, and inspection requirements, would more or less car-related deaths occur?
Apr 25, 18 11:36 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
This isn't even a comparison, your comment is just dumb.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 11:36 AM
You really want to avoid the car comparisons, they really don't help you like you think they do.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 25, 18 3:35 PM
Way to avoid the question. We've decided that more car-related fatalities would occur. That's why those requirements exist.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 3:38 PM
"You really want to avoid the car comparisons, they really don't help you like you think they do"

~ Fore

Sorry, I should have cited the source.

By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 25, 18 3:43 PM
I'm not making a comparison. That was you and DiseaseDiocese.

At least now you agree with me that it's not an apt comparison, though.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 3:46 PM
It doesn't change the fact that even after all that licensing... and testing... and insurance... vehicle deaths still occur at the hands of often irresponsible and sometimes criminal drivers.

But yet, we don't ban cars.

By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 27, 18 8:21 AM
We just mandate that the cars and their owners meet those requirements.

And you know what happens when the cars don't meet those requirements?

They're banned.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 27, 18 8:26 AM
The car isn't banned, the people just can't drive them. The car still exists!

Sure, the law abiding will abide by the law. But in many cases, they're STILL driven without meeting the requirements.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 27, 18 9:59 AM
There are indeed cars ineligible for import and subject to seizure by the government if possessed.

The fact that they still exist in other countries is sort of irrelevant, isn't it?

And if they're driven illegally the driver is subject to criminal liability, right?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 27, 18 10:25 AM
Cars ineligible for import, you don't say Captain Obvious... psssst... even cars built in US are not street legal if they don't meet certain standards....but they still exist!

My biggest question at the moment is how you bringing up imported cars has any relevance to the point that after all that licensing... and testing... and insurance... vehicle deaths still occur at the hands of often irresponsible and sometimes criminal drivers?

By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 28, 18 12:28 PM
You make a great argument for doing away with all laws, huh?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 28, 18 12:42 PM
Did I say that? Certainly I did not. Is that really what you think I'm advocating? I'm simply saying that even after licensing... and testing... and insurance...people are still ultimately the problem, not the inatimate object. .
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 28, 18 3:44 PM
Right, and despite laws against murder people still get killed...I guess those laws are no good and serve no purpose as individual or general deterrents.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 28, 18 7:58 PM
April To Date body count in Chicago
Shot & Killed: 30
Shot & Wounded: 159
Total Shot: 189
Total Homicides: 38

You tell me.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 28, 18 8:16 PM
Dumb.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 28, 18 8:28 PM
Dumber.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 28, 18 8:34 PM
Laws against X are intended to act as individual and general deterrents, not guarantees. I can't believe I'm really having a conversation about this. Goodnight.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 28, 18 9:40 PM
I never said guarantee...that's all you.

Sometimes laws by themselves simply have no bearing to cause and effect. Even the National Institute of Justice says, "Increasing the severity of punishment does little to deter crime*." What would make you think simple passing a law will have any deterrent impact?


*Five things about Deterrence
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 28, 18 11:18 PM
What does the NIJ have to say about the effect of having no punishment?

What exactly is your point in highlighting that laws don't stop 100% of their prohibited behavior? That people break laws? What insight.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 29, 18 7:47 AM
You said - "Laws against X are intended to act as individual and general deterrents." I said "Sometimes laws by themselves simply have no bearing to cause and effect."

"What exactly is your point in highlighting that laws don't stop 100% of their prohibited behavior?" Who said that? Why, only you!
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 8:56 AM
Nowhere in that comment did you clarify what your point is.

Is it specifically that laws governing vehicles (or guns) have no effect on vehicle (or gun) fatalities?

I don't believe you.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 9:04 AM
I've said my point three times now and even provided an example from the NIJ for context. The point must be bounding off...

"Sometimes laws by themselves simply have no bearing to cause and effect". This counters the point "Laws against X are intended to act as individual and general deterrents."


By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 9:35 AM
Intent and effect are different things, right? I ask because English is my second language...
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 9:47 AM
Common sense, too.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 11:09 AM
Intent is what a law means to accomplish.

Effect is the actual outcome that follows.

Just making sure you know.
Apr 30, 18 11:17 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
I understand your belief that in the case of guns (and apparently cars) laws don't result in their intended effects. Which laws in particular you refer to, or whether you have any support, remains unclear.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 11:17 AM
The term "cause and effect" and lack thereof is readily understood, by most. Murder is against the law, yes?

April To Date in Chicago
Shot & Killed: 31
Shot & Wounded: 176
Total Shot: 207
Total Homicides: 39

By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 12:31 PM
So those numbers need to be zero for you to believe laws work?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 12:46 PM
Sometimes laws by themselves simply have no bearing to cause and effect
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 1:19 PM
Which would imply that (gasp!) sometimes they do.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 1:26 PM
Yes, to the law abiding. Those that weigh the risks and decide...naaaah. But the others... say YEP. F the law.

I never argue universality of any point, there are always exceptions.
You've been pushing the "100% angle" in my direction. Never said that.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 2:49 PM
I'm just saying that sometimes laws by themselves simply do have bearing to cause and effect.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 2:59 PM
Well, you've gone to great lengths to argue against my point that "sometimes laws by themselves simply have no bearing to cause and effect."

So, care to provide an example of a law that made someone not commit a criminal act, because of the law itself? Because I'm of the mindset that laws don't stop crime, they punish it.



Apr 30, 18 11:05 PM appended by Po Boy
...and by "stop it" I mean deter it.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 11:05 PM
Um, anyone who doesn't want to be punished by the law?

You can't really believe that the fear of repercussions doesn't deter at least some non-zero number of crimes.

To get analysis past that, we'd have to compare a locality before and after a law was passed. The only thing that comes to mind is prohibition, and without looking I could probably find something that says more people drank after prohibition than during it.

Would that satisfy your curiosity?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 1, 18 5:30 AM
Right.

Final April Totals in Chicago
Shot & Killed: 33
Shot & Wounded: 183
Total Shot: 216
Total Homicides: 40
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 1, 18 12:44 PM
I feel like my point is obvious on its face: laws function as a deterrent.

No need to say anything further.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 1, 18 12:59 PM
No. The punishment is the deterrent, it anything and that is debatable as noted by the NIJ.

But, I'll offer 40 reasons in Chicago for April alone that says, what you feel has no bearing.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 1, 18 1:35 PM
Which is synonymous with "if there weren't laws against murder, that number wouldn't be any higher."

Dumb.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 1, 18 3:30 PM
Not at all. You think people would just go around killing each other under normal circumstances?

Praise be to Jesus, we have words on paper in the form of a law against murder. Now I'm scared. The punishment is the deterrent, it anything and that is debatable as noted by the NIJ.

By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 1, 18 7:44 PM
Your belief that murder laws (and the punishments they set, duh) don't deter murder is laughable, and not really worth addressing anymore.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 1, 18 8:03 PM
Myself and the NIJ believe laws in and of themselves don't, but as you've now included, punishment does...and that is only to a certain extent.

If that were the case, the existence of the death penalty would result is zero murders.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 2, 18 9:24 AM
Is there any criminal law that doesn't set a punishment? So the law is synonymous with a punishment? Ok then.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 2, 18 9:25 AM
Of course not. Only now have you acknowledged the distinction of punishment within a law. Laws in and of themselves however, are looked at as not enough to deter and prevent crime.

The NIJ in it's research “Five Things About Deterrence” does not mention pass more laws.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 2, 18 9:49 AM
There's no such thing as a criminal law without punishment. What a dumb distinction.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 2, 18 9:57 AM
No disagreement there, but I'd suggest you're the only one pushing the distinction.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 2, 18 1:56 PM
And your suggestion would be wrong.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 2, 18 2:00 PM
Then don't write things I didn't say.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 3, 18 12:15 PM
"No. The punishment is the deterrent"

Looks like you're trying to make a distinction, but what do I know?

English IS my second language....
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 3, 18 12:22 PM
You: There's no such thing as a criminal law without punishment.

Me: No disagreement there...

Keep in mind, this was after my point: "Sometimes laws by themselves simply have no bearing to cause and effect"

Maybe third language, who knows.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 3, 18 2:06 PM
1 member liked this comment
Actually, my third language is...nevermind, that'd be divulging too much personal information on the internet.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 3, 18 4:32 PM
Here's a Chicago murder deterrence update:

May to Date
Shot & Killed: 3
Shot & Wounded: 29
Total Shot: 32
Total Homicides: 4
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 4, 18 8:31 AM
That's almost as many as NYC!

"Chicago sees drop in killings and shootings for 13 consecutive months" Apr 1, 2018
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 4, 18 8:53 AM
That's a shiny turd you're polishing.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 4, 18 9:10 AM
1 member liked this comment
Improvement is improvement!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 4, 18 11:13 PM
It still doesn't change the fact that ninety-eight percent of mass public shootings have occurred in places where guns are banned.

This statement, on it's face value...it 100 percent accurate!!

Let's ban guns from Chicago already!
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 5, 18 4:48 PM
Are guns banned in gun-free zones, or are they only banned from non-professional good guys?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 5, 18 5:25 PM
Are guns banned in gun free zones?...yes!

I have no idea what a "non-professional good guy" is. But if you have to go to those lengths to cloud the issue, it's extremely telling.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 7, 18 10:42 AM
Just making a distinction between places with and without armed security. You know: professional good guys with guns.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 7, 18 8:45 PM
Thank you slime!
By Fred s (106), Southampton on Apr 23, 18 9:48 AM
guns don't fire themselves ps I don't have one
By xtiego (629), bridgehampton on Apr 23, 18 5:23 PM
It boggles the mind that there are seemingly otherwise intelligent people who are happy to give up one of their constitutionally protected rights. There are MILLIONS of responsible gun owners, and a handful of mentally defective animals who are not.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Apr 23, 18 6:06 PM
Slime why was this never a problem 20 years ago? Why is this a very recent development? Could it be a wacky society? Really this guy was carrying a loaded gun? Better check your source.
By chief1 (2432), southampton on Apr 23, 18 6:36 PM
1 member liked this comment
It wasn't a problem 20 years ago because 20 years ago nobody cared about political correctness, group think and extreme ideology. You sheeple have been tought how to think, when to think and why to think. What's so wrong with thinking for yourself and thinking pragmatically? A bigger problem than guns in this country is the liberal takeover of our education system across the board. From K all the way through college. Everyone is taught to think a certain way and if you don't, you're ostracized with ...more
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on Apr 23, 18 10:30 PM
2 members liked this comment
"Fox News told me the problem is liberals don't think for themselves"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 24, 18 5:54 AM
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"A subsequent investigation found that Mr. Tuttle had a loaded rifle in his vehicle, which was parked in the Argonne Road school's parking lot."

scroll up, this was cut and pasted from the article beneath which you are commenting. Perhaps read the article and comment, instead of the other way around.
By even flow (626), East Hampton on Apr 24, 18 7:01 AM
"Fox News told me the problem is liberals don't think for themselves"

Fox News would never say that. Let's try this:

"Fox News told me the problem is Liberals think they know what's best for everyone else."
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 24, 18 9:59 AM
The funny part is you thought the problem was with the second part rather than the first.

In both examples, Fox News is still telling you what to think.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 24, 18 10:08 AM
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"Fox News told me the problem is liberals don't think for themselves"

Fox News would never say that. Let's try this:

"Fox News told me the problem is Liberals think they know what's best for everyone else."
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 24, 18 10:23 AM
It wasn't a problem until Fox News launched which was roughly 20 years ago. We have always had divergent views in America but until then we never had a propaganda arm of Empire intentionally portraying one side as evil. The problem is not liberals, and the problem is not conservatives (unless one side has all the power, of course). The corporate state is where all the anger should be directed. It is why wars are fought, why jobs are sent abroad, why cheap labor is allowed in, why mean income ...more
Apr 24, 18 10:55 AM appended by June Bug
This is a reply to post of DiseaseDiocese.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Apr 24, 18 10:55 AM
The funny part is Fore, your entire initial statement and second for that matter, is more an indication of what Leftists believe, rather than about those that watch Fox News. That's the joke and why it's taken without an ounce of credibility or seriousness.

You too, comrade June. "The corporate state"....
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 24, 18 12:01 PM
Right, your admission that Fox News is the genesis of your beliefs says more about me than you.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 24, 18 12:39 PM
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"The genesis"... LMAO. Sure Mr. CNN, whatever you say.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 24, 18 4:29 PM
I may read CNN sometimes, but at least I don't blindly parrot what it tells me.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 24, 18 4:41 PM
Fore, please now...
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 24, 18 9:58 PM
JuneZ: Before FOX news the media was left leaning, ABC, CBS and NBC were pretty much all there was for news, throw in the liberal rag FOX certainly did upset the apple cart when they gave an alternative viewpoint.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Apr 25, 18 6:33 AM
News shouldn't be giving "viewpoints" they should just give the facts.

If someone is yelling at you through the TV about what you should be angry at, that should tip you off that they're not a journalist.
Apr 25, 18 6:47 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Po, here is your admission: "Fox News told me the problem is Liberals think they know what's best for everyone else."
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 6:47 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By even flow (626), East Hampton on Apr 25, 18 7:36 AM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By even flow (626), East Hampton on Apr 25, 18 7:38 AM
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Admission or not, view point or not (yawn)....it doesn't change the news that "Liberals think they know what's best for everyone else." What Liberals can't mandate they ban, and what they can't ban, they mandate.

verb: tell; 3rd person present: tells; past tense: told; past participle: told; gerund or present participle: telling

~communicate information, facts, or news to someone in spoken or written words.



By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 25, 18 7:42 AM
First of all, any public policy someone advocates for is that person "thinking they know what's best for everyone else."

For example, you think everyone else is better off without gun-free zones.

I know what I want the world to look like and advocate for public policy that agrees, as do you. The difference between us is I don't get my views from an angry man yelling on-screen.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 8:20 AM
You know what I love about you Fore. You always go one sentence too many which does nothing but illuminate the landscape.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 25, 18 8:41 AM
Is the landscape that people think an angry man yelling at them is news just because it says "Fox News" at the bottom of the screen?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 9:06 AM
I could say the same about CNN, case in point, Rachel Maddow.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 25, 18 11:22 AM
Yes, Rachel Maddow routinely inserts her opinion into her show.

The commingling of editorial and news is not unique to conservative news channels, but the deference given to a single source (Fox News) does appear to be.

Consumers are responsible for critical analysis of the media they consume. That's why I read a wide variety of news sources rather than watch a single channel.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 11:35 AM
Ummm, you're the only one giving deference to Fox News...

Hello...McFly????
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 25, 18 11:37 AM
You: "Fox News told me the problem is Liberals think they know what's best for everyone else."

Also: "liberal audiences consume news from a wide variety of outlets, while just one outlet — Fox News — captures the vast majority of conservative news consumers"

And: "right-leaning Americans are twice as likely to mistrust the news than those on the left, the report found."
Apr 25, 18 11:46 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
That study came from that well-known liberal rag, Reuters.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 11:46 AM
You: "Fox News told me the problem is liberals don't think for themselves"

Me laughing in your general direction: "Fox News told me the problem is Liberals think they know what's best for everyone else."
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 25, 18 3:32 PM
Just the "facts"? What a great idea! Now if the MSM would do that the world would be a much better place, but alas they are the propaganda wing of the Democrat Party and without the cover they provide what's left of the Party would slip into inevitable oblivion. Thank God that there are alternate places to obtain the "facts">
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Apr 25, 18 3:39 PM
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Po: You should place an extra pair of quotes around the first since I was facetiously characterizing the comment by DiseaseDiocese, whereas your reply was an earnest correction encompassing your views, which seem to comply with the findings of Reuters.

BF: In the absence of the Fairness Doctrine consumers are responsible for parsing fact from opinion.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 3:45 PM
Oh, I see. I suppose facetiously characterization begets facetious characterization.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 27, 18 8:18 AM
If you say so. Sarcasm is hard to convey online so if your statement that "Fox News told me the problem is Liberals think they know what's best for everyone else" was in-fact facetious, I apologize.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 27, 18 8:31 AM
So.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 27, 18 9:55 AM
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Wow diseased, you hit all the talking points again. You get a little gold star, in the shape of a snowflake. You ought to get out more.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on Apr 24, 18 8:33 AM
I initially thought that the Press's failure to enable comments on the article, "Multiple Drug, Alcohol Arrests Made In Police Enforcement Detail Friday Night", was an accidental oversight. However, it having persisted for three days now, it is apparent that the Press has reverted to its prior policy of sheltering p.d.s from criticism.

Just can't IMAGINE what prompted that.
By highhatsize (3525), East Quogue on Apr 24, 18 10:11 AM
Fox beats every news channel in ratings for every time slot...every day. I'm not the minority here. I'm able to think for myself. I voted for Obama in 2008. Did Fox think for me then? I didn't vote for him in his second term because by the time elections came around, he drove the wedge between whites and blacks, civilian and military/police and poor vs rich. Unfortunately he won, but Trump took over because Obama swung that pendulum way too far to the left. Was this Fox? Of course not...but I wouldn't ...more
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on Apr 24, 18 10:47 PM
1 member liked this comment
That makes sense, entertainment shows regularly beat out current events programs.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 6:48 AM
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When the tough gets going, libs reference Fox. We are about to place guards in schools who will be carrying guns because other people with guns keep shooting up schools with guns. Honest and authentic gun owners should have no problem admitting that the proliferation of guns in our society is a scourge.
By SlimeAlive (811), Southampton on Apr 25, 18 6:14 AM
If both political party’s can’t come together and discuss this, nothing will ever happen. No one is trying to take away any guns or any rights. It’s obvious that something has to be done. Be it liberal or conservative we are all in this together.lamely attacking each other is counterproductive.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on Apr 25, 18 9:17 AM
My money's on "nothing will ever happen"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 9:24 AM
"No one is trying to take away any guns or any rights."

That isn't accurate. 39% of Democrats want to do away with the Second Amendment. A bill was proposed to ban 205 different weapons. How is that NOT trying to take away guns or any rights?
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 25, 18 11:19 AM
Until revocation of 2A is a bonafide part of a legislator or party's platform on the federal level, consider me unconvinced by that survey.

If it makes you feel better, I'd consider revocation of 2A a poison pill and would vote against anyone with such a platform, as I imagine many others would.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 12:02 PM
1 member liked this comment
I didn't say it was a winning platform... in fact, it's not...which is why it's wittingly incremental and shaded under "good policy."

The demise of the Second Amendment is simply the desired end game. How Liberalism gets there, they don't really care.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 25, 18 3:29 PM
Oh, ok, so when outright revocation is actually on the table I suppose we'll agree more.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 3:31 PM
Ban one by one is more likely.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 25, 18 3:34 PM
Ok, so I'll see you when it gets there.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 3:47 PM
See me?
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 27, 18 8:15 AM
As in "we'll talk about it when I agree with you that it's happening"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 27, 18 8:19 AM
It's being attempted... currently.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 27, 18 9:54 AM
And me agreeing with you that we are on a slipper slope is a condition precedent to me engaging seriously in this conversation with you.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 27, 18 11:40 AM
It's what keeps people buying more guns a-la the greatest gun salesman/women ever....Democrats!
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 28, 18 12:12 PM
And as the quantity of firearms in citizen hands increases, doesn't the likelihood of successful gun confiscation or repeal of the second amendment decrease?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 28, 18 1:07 PM
You may be right Fore but what has happened, recently in NY, is the banning of certain firearms commonly owned, capacity restrictions and modification restrictions which turns law abiding citizens into law breaking citizens just by the stroke of a pen and nobody is safer because of it.
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on Apr 28, 18 1:25 PM
Do you have any support for your premise that "nobody is safer because of it"?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 28, 18 1:50 PM
Fore, You've now moved the discussion from ban to confiscation.

Confirming... Yes? Because that changes the discussion entirely.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 28, 18 3:39 PM
How else do you ban something that's already widely held by citizens?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 28, 18 7:53 PM
Ban and confiscate...

Two different animals - but you already know that. Ok, fine...one you make it illegal and maybe even prohibit to have as Democrats proposed for 205 types of mean guns, and the other, Democrats come and (try) to take.




By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 28, 18 8:14 PM
Is that all you got out of my post or is it just easier to just play the game of "show me some stats"? Serious question.

To answer your question, stats show slightly lower crime involving a firearm in NY since the passage of the NY Safe Act but the numbers were already trending that way before it was passed. Correlation vs causation?
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on Apr 28, 18 10:39 PM
I don't really have a problem with the instruments people already own becoming illegal overnight, provided I agree with the underlying legislation.

If nobody is safer because of it, demonstrably, then it would be unjustified.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 29, 18 7:57 AM
Democrats don't support gun legislation for people to be safer, they support it because they then feel good about themselves.

Meanwhile, only criminals have what was just banned, making no one safer thereby relegating that nonsense to the unjustified category, I suppose.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 9:04 AM
"Democrats don't support gun legislation for people to be safer, they support it because they then feel good about themselves."

That's a whole lot of conjecture. Do you have any support for it?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 9:11 AM
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How about the continuance to blame the gun and the fact that criminals don't follow the law.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 9:30 AM
What does it mean to you that "criminals don't follow the law"?

Does that render all laws moot, or just the ones you disagree with?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 9:43 AM
No silly, it just means that if you have a law and it is violated - invariably they always are, by default, you're a criminal. It's what people do. Laws or not.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 11:07 AM
So you're just re-stating the definition of "laws" rather than opining on whether they are effective at reducing their targeted behavior?

Ok then, but that doesn't support your point that "Democrats don't support gun legislation for people to be safer, they support it because they then feel good about themselves."
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 11:15 AM
If the laws don't work, "feeling good about themselves" is the only plausible explanation, aside from pure delusion which is a bonus you, I suppose.

Take the proposal to ban 205 different styles of guns and accessories. Do you really think that will be the end of mass murder? The murders at Virginia Tech occurred with a handgun.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 12:54 PM
Who is saying it will end mass murder?

The intent would be to decrease it.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 1:05 PM
Have any data to support that if the 205 ban were to go into effect, the same event wouldn't take place with a different instrument?

By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 1:18 PM
That would be a different event, by definition.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 1:26 PM
Really Really bad murder?
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 2:41 PM
...or maybe...Garden Variety Murder?

Or, maybe we can make murder a hate crime?

Oh,wait, Democrats already did that, ok, that won't work.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 2:44 PM
It would be whatever kind of attack it is, and we'd grapple with how we can prevent it in the future, if at all.

What we wouldn't do is assume that instances of Y make bans against X unsuccessful, unless we know for a fact that Y happens just as often as X used to, and causes the same kind and quantity of carnage.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 1, 18 11:55 AM
All pure conjecture and subjective. X and Y don't necessarily result or cause Z, especially if Z at its core, is not the result of X or Y.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 1, 18 12:42 PM
They don't necessarily result in Z...but they might! Hence, data!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 1, 18 3:32 PM
What data and what result?
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 1, 18 7:39 PM
The data showing mass shootings declined during the federal assault weapons ban, for one.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 1, 18 8:00 PM
But yet the violent crime rate dropped significantly as gun ownership increased. Perplexing, ain't it? Seems to lead to a mental health and/or societal issue as the numbers prior to the ban were lower as well. You see, X and Y don't always result in Z for reasons one might think.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 2, 18 8:55 AM
But as we established...they might!

One can choose to view the data one way or the other, but the challenge is convincing people your public policy is preferable!
May 2, 18 9:02 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
After the federal ban expired, didn't mass shootings increase again despite general gun violence continuing to fall? Weird.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 2, 18 9:02 AM
The common denominator in every mass event shooting or otherwise, is always a person.

Societal and mental health...

By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 2, 18 9:16 AM
It sure is weird how dogs don't discharge guns and chairs never choose to shoot up schools
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 2, 18 9:24 AM
Weird? Not at all. Neither have opposable thumbs that allow an object to be grasped.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 2, 18 9:35 AM
So...monkeys? Haven't seen one shoot up a country music concert in a while, huh?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 2, 18 9:39 AM
It's the extra 1% of DNA that humans have that makes them stupid.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 2, 18 1:52 PM
Speak for yourself.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 2, 18 1:57 PM
I would never include an intellectual like yourself in that category. You're more of a too smart for his own good sorta fellow.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 3, 18 2:08 PM
I suppose I'd rather get called "too smart" than "too dumb," even if "subhuman" was thrown in there somewhere.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 3, 18 2:15 PM
The "stupid" reference was generically used toward those committing a mass shooting... that's what I get for trying to stay on topic.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 4, 18 8:27 AM
I’m inclined to agree with you. If a bunch of grade schoolers can be slaughtered and nothing happens, there more on tap.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on Apr 25, 18 11:10 AM
Hand-wringing and shoulder-shrugging, so it goes.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 11:14 AM
Not at all. We've seen instance after instance of government failure.

How about it be fixed!
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 25, 18 11:16 AM
Yes, let's fix the gaps in the system that allow mass shooters to legally obtain firearms.

For example, someone that gets expelled from school for violent acts should be reported to the NICS and prohibited from buying firearms.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 12:05 PM
Tightening those gaps would be a good place to start. As a responsible gun owner I am aware that until we prevent prohibited people from obtaining guns that it is only going to get harder on us, the law abiding majority.
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on Apr 25, 18 1:01 PM
1 member liked this comment
Obama Administration Asks Schools to Drop Zero-Tolerance Approach

Today, the Obama administration urged teachers to end long-held no-tolerance discipline programs, which many have criticized as funneling black and hispanic students through the "school-to-prison" pipeline.

DANIELLE WIENER-BRONNER JAN 8, 2014

Apr 25, 18 3:25 PM appended by Po Boy
Ask me why I think Liberalism is more dangerous than guns.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 25, 18 3:25 PM
I don't think I suggested that students expelled for violence be referred to the criminal justice system, which doesn't guarantee their firearm purchases will be denied, just NICS, which will.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 3:30 PM
NICS is tied to the criminal justice system and only as good as the information entered into it.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 25, 18 3:33 PM
Yes, some of the information comes from the criminal justice system, but it is not the only source, nor does it need to be.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 25, 18 3:47 PM
Yes, most of the information comes from the criminal justice system...National Instant CRIMINAL Background Check System.

Now on to identifying who will be the next "mass shooter." To input information, someone from "the criminal justice system" will need to add the record. If a student is expelled for a violent act, law enforcement will need to get involved...to input the record. This was specifically avoided by Liberal policies in the past.

By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 26, 18 9:19 AM
An arrest record does not prevent gun ownership, nor does it address the problems raised by the use of officer discretion in Parkland.

Mandatory reporting for expulsions from school for violent behavior meets due procedural process requirements as the student would have an opportunity to be heard.

Such a prohibition would also likely survive the strict scrutiny analysis required by substantive due process because the means are a narrowly-tailored way to advance the compelling government ...more
Apr 26, 18 9:44 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Yes, the FBI has administrative responsibility for the NICS, but the substance of the information it holds comes from many sources, from both inside and outside law enforcement.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 26, 18 9:44 AM
Who said arrest record?

You said "some" information I correct that "most" of the information comes from the criminal justice system, noting the name CRIMINAL in the title of NICS. I'm rethinking that and would suggest all the info comes from the justice system somehow.

Ok smart guy, what information are you referring to when you say "not the only source." Who else is entering information into NICS if it doesn't some how come through the criminal justice system or entered by a representative ...more
Apr 26, 18 10:35 AM appended by Po Boy
What are the "many sources" you refer to? Anxiously waiting the for response of your google search.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 26, 18 10:35 AM
Yes, the FBI has administrative responsibility for the NICS, but the substance of the information it holds comes from many sources, from both inside and outside law enforcement.

I choose to skip over the hair-splitting and grant you whatever victory on "most" versus "some" you seek, in favor of discussing how failures in officer discretion can be overcome with mandatory reporting in narrowly-tailored situations.
Apr 26, 18 10:40 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
The concept of mandated reporters is not new, the idea would be to expand the mandated reporting from "real immediate threats" to "recurrent violent behavior"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 26, 18 10:40 AM
So you claim the information in NICS comes from "many sources."

Well, what are those sources?

By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 26, 18 1:20 PM
What a dumb, irrelevant question. You don't think a street cop finds mental incompetence, do you?

I choose to skip over the hair-splitting and grant you whatever victory on "most" versus "some" you seek, in favor of discussing how failures in officer discretion can be overcome with mandatory reporting in narrowly-tailored situations.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 26, 18 2:36 PM
Why no I don't, but that doesn't explain how the information gets into NICS, either.

So you CAN'T provide the "many sources" that originate information that goes into NICS. You have no idea who enters that information - "the information it holds comes from many sources, from both inside and outside law enforcement."

Noted.



By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 27, 18 8:11 AM
I choose to skip over the hair-splitting and grant you whatever victory on "most" versus "some" you seek, in favor of discussing how failures in officer discretion can be overcome with mandatory reporting in narrowly-tailored situations.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 27, 18 8:18 AM
And the point is, who will enter it into NICS? "Most" and "some" are important as we get to your grand plan of "someone that gets expelled from school for violent acts should be reported to the NICS" and in context of "I don't think I suggested that students expelled for violence be referred to the criminal justice system."

Well?
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 27, 18 9:53 AM
Yes, the FBI has administrative responsibility for the NICS, but the substance of the information it holds comes from many sources, from both inside and outside law enforcement.

An alternative source to the criminal justice system is (gasp!) the civil justice system. Also, determinations made by mandated reporters such as physicians and therapists.

Nevertheless, I will readily admit that all information is keyed into the system by law enforcement officers, even when the findings ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 27, 18 10:36 AM
Ureka! See how easy that was to the innocuous statement,
"NICS is tied to the criminal justice system and only as good as the information entered into it"..."

And it only 10 posts or so, to strike gold....

"Now on to identifying who will be the next "mass shooter." To input information, someone from "the criminal justice system" will need to add the record. If a student is expelled for a violent act, law enforcement will need to get involved...to input the record. This was ...more
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 27, 18 11:21 AM
Policies against the school-to-prison pipeline are specific to promoting alternative consequences to potentially criminal acts as opposed to zero-tolerance policies requiring immediate filing of criminal charges.

Information-sharing for entering the personally-identifiable information of violent expelled students into NICS leaves law enforcement the discretion to investigate further and protects the rest of us when law enforcement discretion falls in the expelled student's favor.

Enjoy ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 27, 18 11:37 AM
Yes, and as we know those "alternative consequences" worked out swimmingly in Parkland.

I'm just trying to keep you dialed-in to reality in lieu of the very fuzzy navel you're sportin' chief.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 28, 18 12:06 PM
Coincidentally, a direct criminal referral would not be as likely to result in gun prohibition as the mandatory reporting of expulsion for violent behavior would, if required.

Did you find any lint?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 28, 18 12:45 PM
"Coincidentally" according to who? It is very straight forward what constitutes someone being unable to purchase a firearm under a NICS query.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 28, 18 3:36 PM
Between criminal complaint and a disqualifying conviction there are lots of potentially-derailing intervening factors including the exercise of discretion by law enforcement officers, district attorneys, judges, and jurors.

But I'm curious: why do you think it's important for students who are expelled for violent acts to retain their gun rights?

Is it just a principled resistance to any new legislation?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 28, 18 7:50 PM
Yes, people are innocent until proven guilty, unless you're President Trump of course, but once the information for the offense is in NICS, it is NOT discretionary.

For the second time now, "I'm just trying to keep you dialed-in to reality in lieu of the very fuzzy navel you're sportin' chief."

If you want to hypothesize and make conjecture on grand ideas, be my guest, but (third time) keeping not keeping them based in reality would be a disservice.

By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 28, 18 8:08 PM
So just to be clear, you're not opposed to reporting expulsions for violent behavior to NICS?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 28, 18 10:29 PM
As long as there is adequate due process and adjudication both to be entered into the system and removed as appropriate, and it is administered into the NICS system by law enforcement,...and...

"Violent behavior" is adequately defined...and the "violent behavior" is followed through with law enforcement and not something akin to avoiding the school-to-prison pipeline that contributed to the Parkland shooting, ok. If this is something in lieu of reporting dangerous behaviors to law enforcement ...more
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 28, 18 11:08 PM
Why is trying to keep kids out of state custody to lower recidivism inconsistent with denying the same offenders gun-rights?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 29, 18 7:49 AM
I see you didn't approve of my answer.

Care to point me to specifically which part of my response supports your claim of inconsistency?
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 8:59 AM
I don't see anything wrong with your views on extending gun prohibitions to kids expelled for violent behavior.

I just don't see what that has to do with moves to keep kids out of jail (aka crime university) and lower recidivism rates.

But hey, if you think kids are better off with zero tolerance policies, that's your prerogative. I'm just glad we found agreement on the first point.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 9:08 AM
With the caveats I noted... don't forget!

I still don't know what "that" specifically is... so I'll guess...You don't see it because you are mixing the two pathways...the civil justice system you've mentioned, and the criminal justice system.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 9:29 AM
I see no problem with expulsions through the civil justice system imposing gun prohibitions while simultaneously minimizing the child's involvement in the criminal justice system.

If the police independently decide to impose criminal liability more power to them, but as we know law enforcement has broad discretion to impose those consequences!

I can see a clear line between the two, and why the two types of consequences need not be intertwined.

Can you?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 9:41 AM
"Need not be intertwined" is not the same thing as "in lieu of".
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 11:01 AM
Right, "in lieu of" implies that it's one or the other, whereas "need not be intertwined" means either one, the other, or both, depending on the context.

Analysis of specific situations and decisions based on their particular circumstances is OK with me!

If a kid gets into a physical altercation while merely defending themselves, for example, that should be treated differently than a kid who instigates premeditated violence. That's the purpose of revoking zero-tolerance policies: ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 11:13 AM
So a kid who was defending himself will now be banned from purchasing a firearm. Oh for Pete Sake. Here we go... "common sense" gun laws.... This is why I stated the caveats, specifically, "adequate due process and adjudication."

I'd suggest it is very different in reality...the kid who instigates the premeditated violence is PROTECTED as was the case of Nikolas Cruz who despite committing a string of arrestable offenses was able to escape the attention of law enforcement, pass a background ...more
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 12:46 PM
Do you think kids get expelled for one fight?

I said the kid shouldn't get arrested, not that he shouldn't be allowed to own guns.

The fact that the Parkland shooter didn't get arrested after criminal complaints was an exercise of discretion by law enforcement offixers, not the school's failure.

If he hadn't been referred at all, THEN it would have been the school's failure.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 12:51 PM
Which is it.... the kid who was merely defending him/herself would enter the civil justice process or be expelled?

The Parkland shooter didn't get arrested after criminal complaints because it PREVENTED law enforcement from to exercising their discretion BECAUSE of the schools PARTICIPATION in the program.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 1:03 PM
The civil justice process IS school expulsion (or suspension, detention, etc.)

You're woefully mistaken about Parkland. Nothing stopped police from arresting him other than their discretion: after he threatened his family with violence they called the cops and he ran away.

When found, he had the appropriate reactions of fear/regret and police chose to return him home without consequences.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 1:08 PM
You didn't answer the question, but maybe we're getting close... ok, I'll trying again...the kid who was merely defending him/herself would enter the civil justice process?

So the program that Parkland and Broward County to stem the school to prison pipeline aimed at reducing if not eliminating kids from entering the criminal justice system...did what again?
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 1:15 PM
So a kid who was defending himself will now be banned from purchasing a firearm. Oh for Pete Sake. Here we go... "common sense" gun laws.... This is why I stated the caveats, specifically, "adequate due process and adjudication."

I'd suggest it is very different in reality...the kid who instigates the premeditated violence is PROTECTED as was the case of Nikolas Cruz who despite committing a string of arrestable offenses was able to escape the attention of law enforcement, pass a background ...more
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 1:29 PM
Exactly, the school would deal with such a child internally rather than refer them to the cops, much like was done during our day, as opposed to a different incident, say an aggressor with a deadly weapon, that would undoubtedly require police attention.

Can you be specific about what program you're talking about?

The Obama era guidelines were intended to cut down on arrests on-campus, not arrests outside of school.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 1:33 PM
Fore, I get it.

The Obama-policy attempting to stem the school-to-prison pipeline are well documented, you've referenced hem in your response I believe. No clarification needed on my part... other than,

The arrestable offenses I'm refereing are mentioned generaically in multiple sources and took place on school grounds.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 2:40 PM
Guidelines are not necessarily adopted by individual districts, though. That's why I ask about particulars.

Regardless, reducing the school-to-prison pipeline is mutually exclusive with mandatory reporting of expulsions for violence to the NICS.

I'm glad we agree on one of those things.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 3:00 PM
We agree with the caveats I noted earlier... don't forget!

But I disagree on the guidelines reference. It was very clear what the goal was of the Obama-era policy, that being to reduce and look the other way...and "Broward County had adopted guidelines designed in part to limit law-enforcement involvement with students, even those who posed a threat" according to a National Review article on the subject. The Guidelines were clear...and Nikolas Cruz was susceptable to multiple arrestable ...more
Apr 30, 18 10:54 PM appended by Po Boy
If you want to agree, stop introducing new parameters to the discussion.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 30, 18 10:54 PM
Criminal charges are not reported to the NICS, just convictions. Mandatory reporting in terms of expulsion for violent behaviors does not need to be linked with the existence of zero-tolerance policies, which I thought we agreed were harmful in the case of kids defending themselves.
May 1, 18 5:33 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
And even then, not all convictions are reported to the NICS. For example, third degree assault is punishable by a year or less, which doesn't rise to the bar of reporting.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 1, 18 5:33 AM
You're very good at stating the obvious...."Criminal charges are not reported to the NICS, just convictions."

I have said nothing to place into question a kid that is defending themselve should or would be placed into NICS. That would be asinine.

May 1, 18 12:37 PM appended by Po Boy
Ok, your lack of knowledge is showing again. NICS taps into a network of different databases. I agree not all convictions are reported to NICS, becasue many that should be entered are not. This is yet another failure of the system But information is not "entered into NICS" per se.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 1, 18 12:37 PM
Uh...only crimes that are punishable by 1+ years of incarceration are entered into NICS. Are you sure you're familiar with the law?

I agree that the kid shouldn't be entered into NICS but you support zero-tolerance policies that would have him arrested and charged with assault? Tsk tsk.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 1, 18 3:29 PM
Uh...NICS pulls from a set of databases. Determination of whether the purchase is ok is based on the results of the query.

Again...NICS in itself is not a database, but a series of databases.

Tsk tsk...I've said no such thing about charging a kid with assault who is defending themselves in a fight. You're creating fake news.

Don't quit your day job.

By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 1, 18 7:36 PM
So you're against zero tolerance policies in his case, right?
May 1, 18 10:31 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Whatever way you want to say it, only crimes that have punishments of one year or more in prison disqualify a person from gun purchases.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 1, 18 10:31 PM
Who is "his?"

I've never disputed the standard for disqualifying determinations, only your portrayal and understanding of how the NICS system operates.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 2, 18 8:39 AM
Obviously "his" refers to a kid who was defending themselves, the very example in the comment you wrote.

If it makes you feel better, every time you see "NICS" feel free to read it as "the databases that make up the information found using the NICS."
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 2, 18 8:54 AM
No "Obviously", "his" could also have been Nikolas Cruz. I have no idea where you going at times...Given I used the term "asinine" to describe possible disposition of a kid defending himself as a record that hits in NICS, where do think I stand on a "zero tolerance" disposition?

Great to get on the same page - the devil is in the details.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 2, 18 9:10 AM
I thought it was pretty obvious in the context of what I was responding to, but I guess we don't all share the same mind. I also didn't realize you were against zero tolerance policies, which you may have thought was obvious, that's why I've been repeating the question for a couple of comments now.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 2, 18 9:17 AM
I didn't say I was against zero tolerance. In fact, I'm not. This is the first you haven't attached an unclear parameter to.

A kid defending themselves is outside the focus of school "zero tolerance" as there is no underlying violation of school policy. It all presupposes it is an isolated incident. Any kid who was simply defending themselves and found themselves in that situation of being suspended or expelled, the parents should be marching their ass down to school and jacking up school ...more
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 2, 18 9:31 AM
So you're in favor of zero tolerance policies, but also feel the school should distinguish between an aggressor and someone defending themselves?

Do you know what zero tolerance means?
May 2, 18 9:41 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
I'll lay it out for you: if there are two kids fighting, the school treats them both equally. If you're bothered by this, you should be, and it's just one way that zero tolerance policies are detrimental.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 2, 18 9:41 AM
What you're outlining is not the problem with zero tolerance, but the problem with not placing those who should be entered into the criminal justice system, and are not. The kid defending himself wouldn't and shouldn't be entered into the system - which is different that suspension and can be argued maybe he shouldn't have. Nikolas Cruz should have, and wasn't.
May 2, 18 1:49 PM appended by Po Boy
If you're bothered by this, you should be, and it's just one way that blanket removal of zero tolerance policies are detrimental.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 2, 18 1:49 PM
I don't think I am.

The kid defending himself would receive the same punishment as the aggressor in the eyes of the school. That's what zero tolerance means.

When you pick and choose where to apply zero tolerance, you're de-facto doing away with zero tolerance (which is the appropriate thing to do: evaluate each situation on its circumstances).
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 2, 18 1:56 PM
Like most liberal policies, the unintended consequences become readily apparent over time.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 3, 18 12:06 PM
And like all things, change for the better is good.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 3, 18 1:36 PM
If it truly is better, and doesn't bring unintended consequences.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 3, 18 2:01 PM
Well that seems short-sighted. The car was better than the horse and carriage, but brought about unintended consequences of air pollution.

That we eventually found it important to reduce emissions doesn't mean we shouldn't have switched over to cars in the first place.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 3, 18 2:06 PM
That's a valid point, if were the topic we're discussing. Note the operative word you used...."all". tsk tsk.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 4, 18 8:25 AM
1 member liked this comment
Have you ever heard of an analogy?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 4, 18 8:28 AM
Have you ever heard of pertinent?
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 4, 18 9:11 AM
how quickly posters got off subject this man had a gun in his vehicle and a clip in his pocket all over an affair gone wrong.. Nice the PD has finally taken him into custody after the school did nothing regarding this affair and the actions that could have happened were very real to not only students but faculity and parents at the games as well
By xtiego (629), bridgehampton on Apr 25, 18 6:25 PM
xtiego, any mention anywhere as to what type of gun he had?
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on Apr 25, 18 6:33 PM
He broke many laws, I hope he will be prosecuted for all the laws. Four or more. No plea deals, get the lawyer out of his office and into the court room.
None of the BS what a nice guy he was...
By knitter (1198), Southampton on Apr 25, 18 7:47 PM
He broke many laws, I hope he will be prosecuted for all the laws. Four or more. No plea deals, get the lawyer out of his office and into the court room.
None of the BS what a nice guy he was...
By knitter (1198), Southampton on Apr 25, 18 7:47 PM
If he is convicted of multiple offenses they will run consecutively, not concurrently as is mandated by the the firearm on school grounds charge.
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on Apr 25, 18 9:41 PM
Gun owners here need to listen to dnice. He's not afraid.
By even flow (626), East Hampton on Apr 26, 18 6:24 AM
I’ve been a gun owner since I was 14. I used to hunt, although I don’t anymore. I still enjoy skeet shooting and occasionally shooting rifles. Funny thing is when at shooting clubs, I’ve never heard anyone talking about gun rights, mostly talking about cars and general bs. The guys I have spoken about any type of gun control have agreed that better background checks aren’t any kind of intrusion into gun ownership. I don’t want complete bans or any ban, just some common ...more
By Fred s (106), Southampton on Apr 26, 18 7:59 AM
1 member liked this comment
Good to hear Fred. If only everyone was as sensible as you and willing to have the discussion....for the greater good.
By johnj (795), Westhampton on Apr 26, 18 1:18 PM
The discussion would get bogged down somewhere after..."common sense" and "sensible." There is nothing common about common sense.

Fred, you’ve stated “threats and intimidation” as being “the nra calling card” and even “how about we do something about guns” and “you have thoughts and prayers to stand by. Let us know how that’s working”... all the calling card statements of those who want to shred the second amendment.

This ...more
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on Apr 26, 18 1:43 PM
1 member liked this comment
All the statements are mine you quoted above.like I said, we need a common sense solution. You can make all the excuses you want, it’s not solving anything. On another note, you should do a little research into John Lott. He’s been highly discredited in his research and analysis. If he’s your go to guy for your research, it’s not holding up.i take no offense to you or anyone else’s opinions. It just highlights the divide that separates our country.i only have 2 comments ...more
By Fred s (106), Southampton on Apr 26, 18 2:23 PM
Lol, "common sense"
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on Apr 28, 18 10:41 PM
Laugh at common sense, I laugh at doing absolutely nothing.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on Apr 29, 18 7:43 AM
Oh, not laughing at common sense, just that term's overuse when discussing gun control.
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on Apr 29, 18 10:48 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on Apr 29, 18 10:48 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on Apr 29, 18 10:48 AM
I don’t know any other way to say it. Should I say use no sense? I suggest some kind of common ground to figure it out. Lack of any action makes no sense.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on Apr 29, 18 11:27 AM
Yes, common ground is a better term. I'm just not sure there is any at this point but definitely something to strive for. "Any action is better than no action" ? Not sure that is a good idea when it comes to legislation. Knee jerk almost never satisfies.
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on Apr 30, 18 2:48 PM
Thank you Michele Wolf by being a typical vulgar, angry liberal. Dems shoot themselves in the foot again... right in front of swing voters.

Wolf did Trump a wonderful service by being who she is.

THANKS.
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on Apr 29, 18 1:46 PM
I hope one day you hold the vulgar, angry president to the same high standard.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Apr 29, 18 2:39 PM
2 members liked this comment
There's a pipe-dream if I've ever heard one. Maybe next year they'll just re-hash everything he's ever said about Rosie O'Donnell since it all probably applies to Trump as well.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 1:38 PM
There's a pipe-dream if I've ever heard one. Maybe next year they'll just re-hash everything he's ever said about Rosie O'Donnell since it all probably applies to Trump as well.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 1:38 PM
Never. I love everything about the guy. Everything! 62,979,878 people can't be wrong either. He saved 1.6 Billion in the waste, fraud, abuse (food stamp) department in his first year. Black unemployment is at a historic low (go figure). He's already done more for the black community than Obama did in 8 years. North and South Korea are getting along (thanks to Trump...regardless of the fake news saying otherwise)...and let's not forget the job he's doing at the border. Also, most importantly, the ...more
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on Apr 29, 18 11:34 PM
1 member liked this comment
Do you see a problem with half of America feeling a choke hold over partisan politics? Do you believe that's what the forefathers had in mind?

While I disagree wholeheartedly with your prognostication, I question your gleeful demeanor over something that should be excoriated rather than celebrated.
By VOS (1065), WHB on Apr 29, 18 11:53 PM
Eagerly awaiting the death of a little old lady is really low, even for someone with the name DiceaseDiocese.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 6:33 AM
I agree Fore. Even though one time I jokingly suggested that you hold your breath, I, under most circumstances, do not advocate or eagerly await anyone's death. Especially anyone who has served on the highest court in the land. Do I like her? Hell no. Do I want her to die? No. I don't think DD does either.
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on Apr 30, 18 2:54 PM
1 member liked this comment
Likewise I didn't cheer when Scalia died. No matter how much you disagree with a person, that's just in bad taste.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 3:13 PM
Low? More like par for the course. He’s existing in some kind of parallel universe.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on Apr 30, 18 6:44 AM
1 member liked this comment
The Russian troll-bots are triggered today.
By johnj (795), Westhampton on Apr 30, 18 12:38 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By xtiego (629), bridgehampton on Apr 30, 18 4:54 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on Apr 30, 18 4:57 PM
Add Rob Schneider to the growing list of famous people who are finically "coming out" in support of Trump...or at least in support of NOT being politically correct. This is what Presidents do. The pendulum is now swinging back to the right. Took awhile but it's slowly getting back to a time in this country where people didn't get so triggered, so quickly. God bless Kanye West too. For anyone here who thinks it's for album sales, think again. Listen to the lyrics in his new single. He speaks the ...more
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on Apr 30, 18 10:27 PM
You can have Rob Schneider and Kanye. If you think those two half wits are swinging the pendulum , good luck. Looks more like Kanye is using the opportunity to push a new album.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 1, 18 5:31 AM
1 member liked this comment
All the Republicans who started following him on Twitter must have been really disappointed when he posted the picture of Emma Gonzalez with the caption "My Hero"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 1, 18 5:34 AM
Didn't anyone ever tell you to be careful with the word "all"? I admire Emma Gonzalez. She's speaking out against violence after suffering an immensely traumatizing experience...instead of sitting quietly and waiting. I don't agree with her political views obviously, but I admire her energy and spirit...I'm sure free thinkers like Kanye do too.
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on May 1, 18 9:23 PM
So you love her in the way Kanye loves Trump, great.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 2, 18 5:58 AM
This is the most comments I have ever seen in a thread. 299...now 300!
By LocalEnthusiast (15), East Quogue on May 1, 18 11:47 AM
April Ratings: Another Catastrophe for Dead-Last CNN

CNN’s highest rated show, Anderson Cooper 360, came in a humiliating 24th for April, behind every single program on Fox News that airs after 6 a.m.

By Ditch Bum (466), Water Mill on May 2, 18 4:11 PM
K
By Pacman (112), Southampton on May 2, 18 4:41 PM
1 member liked this comment
Sooo, Trump faked his own doctor's note. Is there anything this guy hasn't lied about?!!!
By johnj (795), Westhampton on May 2, 18 4:25 PM
1 member liked this comment
#Girther
By Pacman (112), Southampton on May 2, 18 4:40 PM
Twice. Then ordered a raid to steal his records?
That doctor should have called the police.
A life so dishonest and devoid of morality that EVERYTHING has to be covered up. Tendency is to merely shakes one's head, but this is actually a serious breach in terms of what the American people should be provided in order to thoroughly assess a candidate. (Not to mention tax returns....)
May 2, 18 4:49 PM appended by June Bug
And the shamelessness-- orders his thugs to raid his doc's office, but goes ballistic when Cohen's offices are raided.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 2, 18 4:49 PM
listen to what kanye is saying , we are all free and love is the strongest force in the universe. good things right ?
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on May 2, 18 5:34 PM
I’ve always thought Kanye was a tad...out there, but he’s right on point here.

People would still rather be victims in their own manufactured mental prison than actually go live their lives.

Spot on, Kanye.

Spot. On.
By joe hampton (3093), The Hamptons on May 2, 18 5:36 PM
What did he say? That he loves trump even though he disagrees with him?

Well, ok then. Even the staunchest conservatives loved (or were supposed to love) Obama as their neighbor.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 3, 18 7:00 AM
Democrats have nothing to campaign for. Thats why they need to invent reasons to vote against Trump.
They're toast and they know it.
By They call me (2331), southampton on May 3, 18 1:27 AM
Democrats have plenty to campaign for.

Higher taxes
Open borders
Gun Control
Getting men into girls’ bathrooms.
By Ditch Bum (466), Water Mill on May 3, 18 7:01 AM
A government that works to everyone's benefit, not just the wealthy.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 3, 18 7:03 AM
This is what mr. West is talking about stop worrying about what government can do for you and live your life. You seem to have an awful lot of time on your hands to comment on this board. I'm sure there's something else you could be doing to be more productive and make your life better instead of relying on government.
By widow gavits (174), sag harbor on May 3, 18 8:41 AM
That's an awful lot of assumptions. First, the government can and does have an impact on your everyday life, whether you want it to or not, shouldn't we want that impact to be be the most positive for the most people?

Second, I'm here mostly for entertainment, but also to draft letters to my elected representatives, isn't that productive?

Lastly, what makes you think I'm reliant on government? Perhaps I've paid my dues and am merely coasting on my achievements, granting me plenty ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 3, 18 8:49 AM
Hey joe Hampton, you can have Kanye and Rob Schneider. I think a fair trade would be a six pack. Any beer is fine, it doesn’t even have to be cold.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 3, 18 6:45 AM
Hey joe Hampton, you can have Kanye and Rob Schneider. I think a fair trade would be a six pack. Any beer is fine, it doesn’t even have to be cold.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 3, 18 6:45 AM
1 member liked this comment
A FREESTUFFERS' PARADISE!!
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on May 3, 18 7:06 AM
"A government that works to everyone's benefit, not just the wealthy."--Fore

Care to elaborate? Here you go again with "everyone" just like in the past with "all". You need to learn how to start using the words "most" and "many" because I'm 100% positive that many people take advantage of this government through fraud and abuse to get theirs. Not cool. I've been witness twice in my lifetime, people who are checking out at the supermarket with heaping loads in their shopping cart(s) and ...more
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on May 3, 18 7:33 PM
Suggestion: Stick to your own knitting instead of keeping tabs on others. You'll find more joy in life. A more legitimate focus for that rage you consistently exhibit is corruption, corporate welfare, and the obscene tax cuts benefitting the rich ratcheting the national debt to record heights that hurts everyone. What you focus on is penny ante.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 3, 18 7:58 PM
suggestion: to bad ..... it is "our knitting when all of our taxes are paying for all the free stuff. you would love it if we were blind to the garbage that goes on. what you see as penny anti adds up. a person should only receive assistance if the are psychically not able to WORK!
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on May 4, 18 1:22 AM
It is amazing what happens when you take away there free stuff! people actually get off the couch , As I've said many times before, economic statistics show 0bama was the only President in modern U.S. history to fail to achieve even one single quarter of 3% GDP growth. He averaged a pathetic 1.6%

You guys are hilarious!
Everything that went wrong during 0bama's term was because of George Bush. Now everything that goes right during Trump's term is because of 0bama!

Do you have ...more
By Undocumented Democrat (1664), southampton on May 4, 18 9:53 AM
A president's term has impacts that are felt after it ends, what's so ridiculous about that?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 4, 18 11:02 AM
@Erin 27 E: The real thieves have all those who dwell in the RW propaganda world brainwashed to focus on the inconsequential stuff and to revile the poor all the while turning attention away from the mega-thievery by the big boys.
Where's the anger toward trump, the biggest thief of all, sued 3500 times by business partners, contractors, clients, employees, and banks for cheating them, who defaults on massive amounts of debt declaring his FOUR bankruptcies, some of which is OUR ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 8, 18 12:44 PM
JuneZ:: Please define "corporate welfare", the term is thrown around a lot by the left and really needs to be explained. As to the "obscene tax cuts benefitting the rich", most every WORKING person has seen an increase in their take home pay commensurate with the amount of taxes they pay, the more you make the larger the break.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on May 4, 18 6:07 AM
@bigfresh: You know full well what corporate welfare is, and if not, make better use of your computer and discover who the real moochers are and where your pitchfork should actually be aimed. As for the "tax break", you do know the biggest moochers' break is permanent, and the pittance you and I are receiving has an expiration date. Further, that pittance is already being wiped out with the rising cost of fuel, healthcare, et. al. Not to mention the burden our children will bear thanks to ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 5, 18 12:04 PM
“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”

~ Daniel J. Boorstin
By Mr. Z (10086), North Sea on May 15, 18 12:06 AM
3.9! — Unemployment Falls to 18-Year Low the Labor Department reported on Friday.Damit Trump stop that. You are making the left wing A*$ clowns really angry.
By Undocumented Democrat (1664), southampton on May 4, 18 9:41 AM
Obama took the unemployment rate from 10% on 10/09 to 4.7% on 12/16. A difference of 5.3%. Trump 4.7% to 3.9%, difference go of .8%. You want to give him overwhelming credit of running the ball into the end zone from the ten yard line when Obama gained the lion's share of the yardage.
By Mets fan (1125), Southampton on May 5, 18 1:44 PM
1 member liked this comment
@ Mets fan

Since 4.7% is well within the range (<=5%) considered "full employment", what The Donald has actually done is to take the ball out of President Obama's hands AFTER the touchdown had already been scored and to claim that, appearances not withstanding, HE did the scoring.
By highhatsize (3525), East Quogue on May 5, 18 2:34 PM
Hey UD: All trump can be given credit for in the employment department is that more lawyers are being hired.
trump's actual record?: Gas prices are at a 3 year high. Stock market is 3K points lower since January. We’re basically in a trade war. Farms set to close. The poor are paying for tax cuts that benefit billionaires. Nazis and the Klan are more emboldened. People of color are being targeted as threats. Tired of winning yet?
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 5, 18 7:56 PM
Daily Presidential Tracking Poll
Thursday, May 03, 2018

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Thursday shows that 50% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance.
May 3, 18 6:05 PM appended by They call me
THE KANYE EFFECT Kanye West is breaking the conditioning of millions....Trump’s approval rating among American males of all back rounds has doubled since Kanye West expressed his approval of the president and asserted ...more
By They call me (2331), southampton on May 4, 18 10:05 AM
The Rasmussen poll is an outlier. None of the other polls are even close. The Kanye effect? You have got to be kidding. The same Kanye who thought slavery was a choice? Your putting a whole lotta eggs in the nutty Kanye basket.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 4, 18 11:01 AM
I freed a thousand slaves I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves. - Harriet Tubman
By SlimeAlive (811), Southampton on May 4, 18 1:39 PM
1 member liked this comment
Snopes rating: False.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 4, 18 2:01 PM
Mystery pooper at N.J. high school's track turned out to be superintendent, cops say
May 3, 11:03 AM

The Kenilworth school superintendent charged Monday with defecating in public was caught in the act at the Holmdel High School football field and track after surveillance was set up due to human feces being found "on a daily basis," police said.

Thomas Tramaglini, 42, lives about 3 miles from Holmdel High School in neighboring Aberdeen. He was running at the track on the athletic ...more
By Pacman (112), Southampton on May 4, 18 4:23 PM
Has anyone seen Snoop Dogg's Instagram post on Kanye West? He photoshopped Kanye to make him look like a White man. DISGRACE!!

Snoop just taught us that whites can be liberal or conservative, but blacks are only allowed to vote democrat. Liberalism is a mental disorder!!!!!!!!!!
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on May 4, 18 4:24 PM
It wasn't Photoshop. That was real!
By Pacman (112), Southampton on May 4, 18 4:32 PM
Black or white, you can't fix stupid.
By johnj (795), Westhampton on May 4, 18 4:33 PM
I'd wager that was specifically meant to reference the belief that slavery was a choice. Is that a conservative belief?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 5, 18 6:35 AM
Just to clarify, I was referring to Kanye. That guy's a moron.
By johnj (795), Westhampton on May 10, 18 9:46 AM
1 member liked this comment
My mistake, it was actually Photoshopped. It turns out 50 Cent has some serious Abobe skills! Who knew?
By Pacman (112), Southampton on May 4, 18 4:34 PM
1 member liked this comment
Unemployment down
Economy booming
Illegal immigration down
Taxes down
crime down
welfare declining
Trade deficit declining
What is the matter with you Fred?
Are you truly against the above improvements in our USA? or do you have a different agenda?
By Ditch Bum (466), Water Mill on May 7, 18 10:02 AM
Ditch bum, I’m an American and I love my country. It’s called a difference of opinion. Don’t question my agenda, I won’t question yours. You guys just keep putting up bad statistics and false statements, I’m good with it. If your too lazy to verify your statements, that’s on you.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 7, 18 10:42 AM
GREAT AGAIN: Housing confidence hits record high as home prices skyrocket...Housing confidence hits record high as home prices skyrocket

Consumer confidence in housing jumped to its highest level on record in April, according to Fannie Mae.

Diana Olick 4 Hours CNBC.com
By Ditch Bum (466), Water Mill on May 7, 18 2:32 PM
1 member liked this comment
Nice to see your using reputable news sources.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 7, 18 8:29 PM
GREAT AGAIN: Job openings in USA hit record...

Job openings in the United States just hit a record
by Nathaniel Meyersohn @CNNMoney
May 8, 18 8:12 PM appended by Ditch Bum
By real it seems you mean sources that bolster you alt left philosophy...... LOWEST-RATED SHOW ON FOX NEWS OUTPERFORMS HIGHEST-RATED SHOW ON CNN Anderson Cooper 360 beaten by Shannon Bream
By Ditch Bum (466), Water Mill on May 8, 18 8:12 PM
1 member liked this comment
West Virginia AG Patrick Morrisey Wins GOP Primary for Senate AP 8 May 2018
By Ditch Bum (466), Water Mill on May 9, 18 7:39 AM
Congrats on not selecting the Trumpiest nominee available. Hopefully it's the beginning of a trend.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 10, 18 12:06 PM
Promise Kept: Donald Trump Announces Decision to Withdraw from Iran Deal and the end of negotiations with terrorists! Trump ! TRUMP !! TRUMP !!!
I love this guy !
Greatest President in our lifetime.
...Peace through weakness is not, has never been, and never will be a thing !
The Iran "Deal" belongs in a dumpster with the rest of oblama's legacy.
"If you want to keep your Nuclear.Deal, you can keep your Nuclear Deal"
B.O.
By Ditch Bum (466), Water Mill on May 9, 18 7:41 AM
1 member liked this comment
NKOREA RELEASES AMERICAN PRISONERS
TRUMP TO GREET AT 2AM

MAGA!
By They call me (2331), southampton on May 9, 18 2:36 PM
obuma must be having miserable everyday watching Donald Trump schooling him on how to be a President!!! Another great day of WINNING. Not tired yet.Greatest President in our lifetime? Nobel. Earned, deserved...not Affirmatively awarded .The left would hand us over to our enemies if they could...
Oh wait... they did try didn't they.
By joe hampton (3093), The Hamptons on May 9, 18 2:40 PM
4 members liked this comment
Trump should be miserable everyday and should take lessons from Obama on how to be a good man and a gentleman.
By Mrs.Sea (261), Sag Harbor on May 13, 18 8:59 AM
He should actually take lessons from you about how to be a good person. You sound lovely.
By even flow (626), East Hampton on May 13, 18 9:21 AM
Hahahah oh boy..................
By Sturgis (349), Southampton on May 13, 18 9:23 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 13, 18 9:45 AM
As do you. But we are talking about Trump and Obama here not making personal comments about those that do not agree with us.
By Mrs.Sea (261), Sag Harbor on May 13, 18 7:16 PM
‘God Bless America’
President Trump, First Lady Melania Trump
Welcome Americans Home from North Korea
Trump welcomes Americans home (Saul Loeb / AFP / Getty)
President Donald Trump welcomed Americans Kim Hak Song, Kim Dong Cul, and Kim Sang-Duk home to the United States at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland after they were released by their North Korean captors.

May 10, 18 11:17 AM appended by 27dan
Oblamer preferred leaving Americans in foreign prisons, unless of course course they were traitors like bergdahl. He was a ball less poseur president, with a blatant animosity towards Americans. Trump on the other hand loves this country, its citizens and is the real deal. We must make sure this man gets a second term ! Winning !! "God Bless.America, the greatest nation in the world." Amen. Welcome home
By 27dan (2328), Shinnecock Hills on May 10, 18 11:17 AM
1 member liked this comment
. . . . and rumor has it that Trump just caught the ISIS biggies.
By pw herman (927), southampton on May 10, 18 11:31 AM
1 member liked this comment

Suddenly trump likes guys who were captured.....
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 10, 18 5:00 PM
1 member liked this comment
PENCE WARNS MUELLER: WRAP IT UP!

It's time to wrap it up': Pence tells Mueller he's had a year to run his Russia probe but won't say it's a 'hoax'

DailyMail
By 27dan (2328), Shinnecock Hills on May 10, 18 11:43 AM
Benghazi was a 4 year investigation, zero indictments. Mueller investigation has been 14 months, 23 indictments. I think we should let this play out...
By Pacman (112), Southampton on May 10, 18 4:59 PM
Average 2017 gas price per gallon: $2.34
Today's average: $2.81 and rising.
Uh huh. Shake those pom poms MAGATS!

















By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 10, 18 11:46 AM
Expensive gas will stop so many people from coming to the east end just to drive around and more importantly stops up west contractors from coming here to carpet bag. They will still come and do substandard work for less but forget about seeing them ever again when there home depot construction materials fall apart or if you need a service call.
By They call me (2331), southampton on May 10, 18 11:55 AM
1 member liked this comment
You get what you pay for .
By joe hampton (3093), The Hamptons on May 10, 18 11:57 AM
Higher gas prices are a good thing?

That's great! I was starting to get worried...
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 10, 18 12:36 PM
Classy
By widow gavits (174), sag harbor on May 10, 18 1:07 PM
Classy
By widow gavits (174), sag harbor on May 10, 18 1:07 PM
In July of 2011, gas prices were $4.00. In 2011, Trump was taping Celebrity Apprentice and June Bug wasn't complaining about gas prices because her president was a bleeding heart liberal just like herself. The only thing I was shaking at the time was my head for voting for that clown. Thank God he's outta there and thank God Trump is erasing every single bit of progress Obama accomplished.
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on May 10, 18 6:18 PM
2 members liked this comment
At least we agree that it was progress.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 10, 18 6:24 PM
Wrong high octane breath.
"Based on EIA's weekly survey of fuel prices at service stations around the country, the cheapest average price for regular gasoline during 2011 was $3.07 per gallon on January 3, and the highest price was $3.97 per gallon on May 9. The average gasoline price in 2011 was $3.52 per gallon." Source: www. eia.gov
The average price per gallon during President Obama's term in office was $2.97. In 16 months, prices have jumped 28% under trump to $2.81. ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 10, 18 8:58 PM
...progress for 0bama's 'fundamental change',
not so much for our country or her citizens.
By loading... (544), quiogue on May 10, 18 8:59 PM
1 member liked this comment
Coincidentally, lots of people were better off in 2016 than in 2008.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 10, 18 9:02 PM
That doesn't justify bringing them in illegally.
May 10, 18 9:12 PM appended by loading...
...intent isn't coincidental
By loading... (544), quiogue on May 10, 18 9:12 PM
I think I understand what you're saying, but I was primarily talking about American citizens.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 10, 18 9:35 PM
Ok..and? It's $2.81 and climbing. We've never been around $2.81 and climbing before? What's your point? And one more thing. I'd rather pay $4.00 per gallon and have hundreds of billions of dollars going into our military to defend this country, then to have gas prices at $2.15 and have a president like Obama who defunded our military and "de-balled"our military by taking out the real leaders and replacing them with political hacks. TIME FOR AMERICAN GUILT IS OVER! Benn there done that. Time for ...more
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on May 10, 18 11:30 PM
1 member liked this comment
president trump is my president. the fact that the left and the media hate him tells me he's doing a good job.
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on May 10, 18 11:54 PM
1 member liked this comment
There you go, thanks for the honesty.

It's not actually about the results of Trump presidency,: DiceaseDiocese would rather pay MORE for gas because of how Trump makes him/her feel; the only evidence of success Erin needs is that the people she dislikes also dislike Trump.

Facts don't care about your feelings, folks.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 11, 18 5:38 AM
1 member liked this comment
"You get what you pay for."

"Higher gas prices are a good thing?"

No, if gas is $2.81, the pump will shut off if you paid $2.81 in cash.

That's a fact!
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 11, 18 1:27 PM
I was wondering where the off the rails thread was this month. It is an endless source of entertainment, no?

Where is the 21st century Teddy Roosevelt when you need one?

The current commander is a bona fide loser by comparison.
May 10, 18 9:06 PM appended by Mr. Z
JFK New Frontier Speech, DNC 1960 ****** Under any circumstances, however, the victory we seek in November will not be easy. We all know that in our hearts. We recognize the power of the forces that will be aligned against us. We know they will invoke the name of Abraham Lincoln on behalf of their candidate--despite the fact that the political career of their candidate has often seemed to show charity toward none and malice for all.
By Mr. Z (10086), North Sea on May 10, 18 9:06 PM
funny how you and june found it at the same time
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on May 10, 18 11:52 PM
Cheese slid off the cracker, eh?
By Mr. Z (10086), North Sea on May 11, 18 1:06 AM
How about those prostitutes that had to be rushed out of JFK's pool because the heli with Jackie was arriving? Too bad you libs weren't on the scene then......
By Taz (413), East Quogue on May 11, 18 1:44 PM
2 members liked this comment
Would JFK have downgraded global health security preparedness?
By Mr. Z (10086), North Sea on May 12, 18 12:31 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By LovedHerTown (120), southampton on May 11, 18 2:13 PM
The Great President Trump, it's only been 15 months, but look at all this . . .
● ISIS Gone in IRAQ
● Illegal immigration down 40%
● DJI up 6,500+ (Yes, even with the "OMG THE MARKET HAS DROPPED",
it's still up Yuge!)
● 3.3 Million+ jobs created already.
● Home builder confidence at a 15 year high
● Peace Breaking out in Korea
● Wages Rise at Strongest Pace in Nearly a Decade
● 4% economic growth forecast. (5% forecast ...more
By Undocumented Democrat (1664), southampton on May 11, 18 11:26 PM
UD, these are facts. Liberals don't like facts. I'm surprised you haven't been called a racist or homophobic yet...
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on May 12, 18 6:37 PM
PENCE WARNS MUELLER: WRAP IT UP!
By 27dan (2328), Shinnecock Hills on May 12, 18 7:46 PM
Based on what? It's only been 14 months and there have been 23 indictments!



Benghazi Investigation

- 72 months

- 0 Indictments

- 0 guilty pleas

- 11 hrs of Hillary’s testimony
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 12, 18 7:50 PM
Based on the fact that the Mueller investigation is nothing more than a witch hunt.14 months is way too long to try and block this loved president from doing the job he was legally elected to do! Fundamentally change this country back to the way it was before Barack Hussein Obama II
By 27dan (2328), Shinnecock Hills on May 12, 18 8:13 PM
Based on the fact that trump Incorporated is a wide ranging international crime syndicate, 72 months might not be long enough.
23 witches--err, warlocks--already. And counting.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 12, 18 8:23 PM
oh june so silly
May 12, 18 8:27 PM appended by Erin 27 E
now you will have to excuse this magette while she shakes her pom poms! hooray president trump!
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on May 12, 18 8:27 PM
How long was the Benghazi investigation? How many indictments or convictions did it lead to?

Alright then.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 12, 18 8:59 PM
You can thank Barack Hussein Obama for his sound economic policies that are mostly responsible for the unemployment and economic figures above. He took us from the depths of a depression of 10% unemployment in 2009 to 4.7% in 2016.
By Mets fan (1125), Southampton on May 13, 18 8:47 AM
1 member liked this comment
Anyone can print money
By joe hampton (3093), The Hamptons on May 13, 18 1:23 PM
1 member liked this comment
Just thank Barack, Joe.
By Mets fan (1125), Southampton on May 13, 18 2:02 PM
Hahahaha! This one is great June Bug. You don't see the hypocrisy in this? This is the entire point that the right has been trying to convey. The deep state, Obama, the Clinton Foundation, etc, have made it so there is zero indictments in regards to Benghazi. Throw in the FISA abuses by the same people...no indictments their either. The problem is, the left. They obviously are still running the show and will dictate who and who does not get in trouble in regards to political wrong doings. Russia? ...more
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on May 13, 18 2:03 PM
Let's see--the Congress that wouldn't cooperate with President Obama went along with him and wouldn't indict Hillary Clinton?
You aren't ashamed to assert such crapola? The same crapola you parrot from Infowars?
Beyond pathetic.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 13, 18 7:47 PM
1 member liked this comment
DiceaseDiocese is literally praying to his/her maker that the hypothetical mole discussed in an opinion column materializes to save Trump from Mueller's investigation...perhaps the almighty has something more important on his/her plate than bailing out corrupt politicians?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 13, 18 8:43 PM
UD , all the things mentioned above are bad news to the Democrat Party.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on May 12, 18 9:17 AM
1 member liked this comment
You’d think so , wouldn’t you.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 12, 18 3:05 PM
Attention all Capitalism defenders:

The 1% grabbed 82% of all wealth created in 2017
by Ivana Kottasová @ivanakottasova
January 22, 2018: 10:42 AM ET

More than $8 of every $10 of wealth created last year went to the richest 1%.
That's according to a new report from Oxfam International, which estimates that the bottom 50% of the world's population saw no increase in wealth.

Oxfam says the trend shows that the global economy is skewed in favor of ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 12, 18 8:29 PM
lol, so silly
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on May 12, 18 8:34 PM
"When they go low, we go high" It will be ok June, We forgive you for calling us "Magats".

Try not to listen to Aunt Mad Maxine on the Joy show so much and breath..... you only have 6 more years to go.

"To all Capitalism defenders " ? Good lord what happened to you along the way ?
By They call me (2331), southampton on May 12, 18 8:42 PM
Unfettered capitalism defenders. There, that's better.
What happened to you that you have no problem with income disparity on a scale that cannot sustain democracy?
May 12, 18 8:48 PM appended by June Bug
Care to tell us what you are if not MAGAts?
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 12, 18 8:48 PM
1 member liked this comment
"Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 12, 18 9:25 PM
"INCOME DISPARITY"? Keerist JuneZ, once again your inner Mr Z is showing!!! The only ones with an issue with "income disparity" are the uber leftists who feel that everyone should be equal when it comes to income. Some people are smarter, take advantage of that gift , get a superior education and make billions, some are not so fortunate but work their posteriors off and are quite successful and make millions, some are lucky and find their niche and do very well, some work hard and do just OK, some ...more
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on May 13, 18 6:15 PM
Derp.
May 14, 18 9:08 PM appended by Mr. Z
You have just demonstrated conclusively that you have very little idea as to how the "system" works. Fancy that folks elected to Congress become millionaires in very short order. You'd think they have inside information more than 99% of Americans don't...
By Mr. Z (10086), North Sea on May 13, 18 9:08 PM
I belive we should have the trickle up policy. We should give all the money to the poor and middle class because in the end it will still end up with the wealthy. But at least it will have passed through their hands once. Will Rogers.
By Mets fan (1125), Southampton on May 13, 18 8:51 AM
1 member liked this comment
I believe you have the right to get a job
By joe hampton (3093), The Hamptons on May 13, 18 1:25 PM
1 member liked this comment
I was not born in this country,have brown skin,came here broke and according to Chuck Shammer I should be a plantation democrat.

Hell NO!

I thank God for Capitalism every day if I made myself successful anyone can . , , All it takes id HARD work !
May 13, 18 2:16 PM appended by Undocumented Democrat
And now that I busted my A$ day and night for 22 years Mets fan wants to tax me to death and give it to the lazy takers that are on the bottom ? lol
By Undocumented Democrat (1664), southampton on May 13, 18 2:16 PM
Enjoy your dinner at Chipotle!!
By Mets fan (1125), Southampton on May 13, 18 3:44 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Mr. Z (10086), North Sea on May 14, 18 9:45 PM
Another Trumpette who believe the 1% should get the lion's share of the tax breaks. Here's what suckers and saps you are, the orange cheetoh donates his salary. Then he passes tax reform that repays him millions. Classic bait and switch. It's easy for him to give you a temporary tax break so you can take your family to Chipotle. That was easy for him to give, it wasn't his money and this country is in debt. Remember his campaign promise, balance the budget and reduce the debt. You suckers and saps ...more
By Mets fan (1125), Southampton on May 13, 18 2:00 PM
A President for all hardworking Americans no matter the color . . .
● ISIS Gone in IRAQ
● Illegal immigration down 40%
● DJI up 6,500+ (Yes, even with the "OMG THE MARKET HAS DROPPED",
it's still up Yuge!)
● 3.3 Million+ jobs created already.
● Home builder confidence at a 15 year high
● Peace Breaking out in Korea
● Wages Rise at Strongest Pace in Nearly a Decade
● 4% economic growth forecast. (5% forecast ...more ...more
By Undocumented Democrat (1664), southampton on May 13, 18 2:10 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on May 13, 18 2:44 PM
Only suckers, brainwashed idiots, and fastasists give the time of day to this owned, obscenely rewarded, drug-addled blowhard peddling his lies and nonsense. Sad.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 13, 18 2:55 PM
Meanwhile, l'ill donnie johnnies is congratulating Putin on his election victory, we play theatrical war in Syria, where Putin controls the country. You right wing nuts seem that cozying up to commies is America's best play. At what point in history have they lived up to their word. They want to make sure their "useful idiot," is under their wing.
By Mets fan (1125), Southampton on May 13, 18 3:49 PM
Just say thank you to Barack Obama as any decent American would!
By Mets fan (1125), Southampton on May 13, 18 3:53 PM
Done!

...last November
May 13, 18 4:20 PM appended by loading...
November, 2016, that is. Remember?
By loading... (544), quiogue on May 13, 18 4:20 PM
1 member liked this comment
14 MILLION listeners per week. It's the number 1 political talk show on the radio. So, 14 million Americans are "suckers, brainwashed idiots, and fastasists"? Read the passage again that I posted. Where in the passage do you see any semblance of Rush trying to brainwash his listeners? You just don't like the truth. Obama DID put a spy inside the Trump campaign. He was the worst president in history...and when all is said and done, Trump will be the best.
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on May 14, 18 9:34 AM
Well your passage got deleted, probably for being a verbatim copy/paste, but the brainwashing part is trying to paint an opinion column in the WSJ that hypothesized about a potential mole as fact.

Where is your proof? Again, an opinion column in the WSJ that mused on the possibility of a plant is not proof.
May 14, 18 9:43 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Also "14 million listeners per week" does not equal "14 million Americans"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 14, 18 9:43 AM
The proof is in not being an ignoramus. I told you to read the Wall Street Journal article written by Kimberly Strassel. If you're going to believe all the "sources" in the Russia probe, then you should be open minded about Strassel's source as well. Read the article dude!! It might open up your eyes a little. Rush's comments were based off of her article. Plain and simple...
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on May 14, 18 11:25 AM
First of all it's not a news article, it's an opinion piece in the opinion section.

Secondly, she doesn't even present the existence of a mole as fact, but insinuates that the information received from inside the campaign MUST have come from a planted agent, as opposed to a leaker.

Third and last, Rush's comments were based off an opinion piece and presented as fact, ergo: brainwashing.
May 14, 18 11:49 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Even Rush's own column goes through lengths to not frame it as fact. Note "my belief" and "it looked like": "Cutting to the chase here, it led to my belief… Well, was not hard to figure out. It looked like, in fact, the FBI had an informant in the Trump campaign."
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 14, 18 11:49 AM
Quoting rush Limbaugh. He is a pretty funny comedian.everyone who studied this? Who are the everybody? Hannity? Rush is nothing more then a loud mouth. Keep following him, you’ll be richly rewarded.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 13, 18 2:59 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 13, 18 2:59 PM
Go ahead and trash the messenger.
That way you may ignore the FACTS.
...so typical
By loading... (544), quiogue on May 13, 18 3:51 PM
It's a fact that there was an FBI plant in the Trump campaign?

Please point me to your proof. The WSJ opinion piece that discusses a hypothetical mole doesn't count.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 13, 18 10:39 PM

"President Xi of China, and I, are working together to give massive Chinese phone company, ZTE, a way to get back into business, fast. Too many jobs in China lost. Commerce Department has been instructed to get it done! "
---DJT (Another poorly educated dotard who doesn't know how to punctuate.)
Is this some kind of joke? Now he's working for China???
Helping a country that steals our technology in their efforts to build a rival to Apple and a company ...more
May 13, 18 3:06 PM appended by June Bug
Plus our intelligence agencies have warned that ZTE technology and phones pose a major cyber security threat. What on earth to make of this?
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 13, 18 3:06 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 13, 18 5:10 PM
"Trumps concern for Chinese jobs for phones that the DoD banned & US intelligence says can be intercepted/turned into listening devices indicates there is money changing hands here we have yet to
uncover."
-Malcolm Nance
Bet Mueller has.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 13, 18 5:15 PM
The March for Life is celebrating Mother’s Day weekend by honoring birth mothers for their courage in choosing to give birth to their unexpected babies and placing them in the care of a loving adoptive family.Liberal women celebrate killing their babies. Evil

As a former fetus, I'm opposed to abortion.
Thanks Mom, and thanks moms.
By 27dan (2328), Shinnecock Hills on May 13, 18 9:10 PM
2 members liked this comment
Liberal women celebrate killing their babies?I know many , many liberal women. I’ve never seen or heard them celebrate killing their babies. You might be a little unhinged dan.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 14, 18 8:09 AM
A little? Now that's an understatement.
By johnj (795), Westhampton on May 14, 18 12:39 PM
and the lunatic leftists here hit the like button, abortion is a sacrament to them.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on May 14, 18 6:56 PM
@bigfresh: It would be if men could become pregnant.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 14, 18 8:39 PM
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By bigfresh (3446), north sea on May 15, 18 5:28 AM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 15, 18 11:56 AM
@bigfresh: Tell us when Jesus of Nazareth condemned abortion, or had a single word to say on the subject. And do you know the RCC had not a word on abortion in its entire existence either until 1929? Ever hear of the Propagation of the Faith? Know how to connect dots?
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 16, 18 6:43 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By 2329702 (12), East Quogue on May 14, 18 8:38 AM
Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer.

“In a long overdue move, we have moved our embassy to Jerusalem,” Schumer said in a statement Monday morning. “Every nation should have the right to choose its capital. I sponsored legislation to do this two decades ago, and I applaud President Trump for doing it.”
By joe hampton (3093), The Hamptons on May 14, 18 3:07 PM
Obama's legacy: Should've, Could've, Would've.
Trump's legacy: Said, Did, Done.
By They call me (2331), southampton on May 14, 18 3:25 PM
Trumps legacy: Sad, Dud, Done.

Fixed that for ya buddy!
By johnj (795), Westhampton on May 14, 18 4:44 PM
Not what the poll trend is saying, Buddy....
By 27dan (2328), Shinnecock Hills on May 14, 18 7:55 PM
Why is it that Muslims have problems with every religion it borders? Why is it they claim victim status in all these disputes? Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Christians, Yazidis, Bahais, in all conflicts muslim is the victim for some reason.
By They call me (2331), southampton on May 14, 18 8:30 PM
Why is it that negative polls are cast aside as fake news but favorable polls are lauded?

Oh yeah, because Trump let the cat out of the bag on Twitter the other day. "Fake news" no longer refers to false news, but rather all negative stories.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 15, 18 6:05 AM
Can you believe that with all of the made up, unsourced stories I get from the Fake News Media, together with the $10,000,000 Russian Witch Hunt (there is no Collusion), I now have my best Poll Numbers in a year. Much of the Media may be corrupt, but the People truly get it!

~ President Trump
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 15, 18 1:28 PM
"91% of the Network News about me is negative (Fake)"

-Trump
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 15, 18 2:00 PM
It's more fake news suggesting the supposition that "negative" and "fake" were explicitly intended to be interchangeable. The corrupt media and its followers has no shame. Any other time you'd be calling the President a liar, apparently until it suits the agenda. We're now at 92%.

If the logic holds water, how about citing an example of fake news, that was positive toward President Trump?
May 15, 18 4:43 PM appended by Po Boy
BTW, the President was citing a study by the Media Research Center which indicated the “liberal media’s war” against the President was “as fierce as ever” during the first four months of 2018. It was the MRC that claimed 90 per cent of evaluative comments about Mr Trump during evening news broadcasts by ABC, CBS and NBC were negative. The President was simply quoting their stat.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 15, 18 4:43 PM
Oh I don't think it was supposed to be explicit, but I do think we got a glance at the man behind the curtain.

Reminds me of the time Spicer quoted the jobs report despite Trump's insistence during the Obama years that the numbers were phony: "They may have been phony in the past, but it's very real now."
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 15, 18 10:15 PM
No doubt you think that. Maybe it's a lot like the President's wiretap quote, when we all know, that's a dated expression used to broadly reference surveillance and other activities. And the "phony in the past" quote, well, yeah, the jobs numbers were kind of phony in the past given the explosion of part timers and those who stopped looking for work.

What, no positive fake news citation?
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 16, 18 11:34 AM
Maybe it's just another instance of sloppy wording by POTUS, but I continue to believe that the parenthetical, just like Spicer's comment, is purposeful obfuscation of "truth."

You're saying all negative news is fake. It's sad, really.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 16, 18 11:48 AM
...Or just another instance of you hear what you want to hear, believe what you want to believe and wouldn't know the "truth" in the process if you took your best "swing for the goal post".
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 16, 18 1:18 PM
It's true that, in the proverbial sense, and nobody can convince you of anything better than yourself.

I don't recognize the second quotation.

Can you cite where I used that phrase?

Oh, I didn't? Ok then.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 16, 18 1:57 PM
"....I just want to make sure where the goal posts are before I take a swing.

By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2677), HAMPTON BAYS on May 11, 18 2:29 PM"

Certainly if you are so sure of yourself on one issue, your same (mis)use of the idiom to convey the "truth" is appropriate in others.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 16, 18 2:10 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 16, 18 2:50 PM
You'll note that "swing for the fences" and "move the goalposts" are separate metaphors, only one of which I used.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 17, 18 6:54 AM
Some poor English comprehension here.
By pw herman (927), southampton on May 17, 18 8:19 AM
1 member liked this comment
“Keep America Great”
By Ditch Bum (466), Water Mill on May 14, 18 4:21 PM
Get ready for the ~ ~ ~ Red Wave !
By Undocumented Democrat (1664), southampton on May 14, 18 4:34 PM
1 member liked this comment
Well, it would seem my favorite sci fi author saw Trump coming.

“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”

~ Isaac Asimov
By Mr. Z (10086), North Sea on May 15, 18 12:08 AM
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.

~ Sir Arthur C. Clarke
By joe hampton (3093), The Hamptons on May 15, 18 7:39 AM
And, as is so predictable, you grab some soundbite totally out of context and think it justifies your point of view.

Sad...

Frankly, intelligence is to live in mellifluous harmony with the natural conditions that support life. Looks like most of humanity ain't that intelligent.
By Mr. Z (10086), North Sea on May 15, 18 8:57 PM
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By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 15, 18 10:16 AM
LAURA RATINGS BOOM ON FOX...

CRUSHES MADDOW...

O'Reilly in talks to return to cable news...
By 27dan (2328), Shinnecock Hills on May 15, 18 10:21 AM
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By johnj (795), Westhampton on May 15, 18 11:03 AM
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By highhatsize (3525), East Quogue on May 15, 18 11:40 AM
Hey dan, I just spent a few minutes researching ratings. Exactly where do you find these results? All the results say Maddow has got the best ratings. Bill O’Reilly coming back? Not for nothing Dan ,you got a knack for picking losers.keep up the good work, your entertaining!!!
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 15, 18 12:17 PM
Not sure why my comment was deleted. I was just pointing out that Bill O'Reilly is a sexual predator and that Trump supporters seem to condone that sort of behavior. That's a great message to send to your daughters.
By johnj (795), Westhampton on May 15, 18 12:44 PM
Scneiderman, Weiner, Billy Boy Clinton. I'm sure you condone that as well. Conservative talk radio/tv shows will always be second to none. There are millions and millions of conservatives in this country and millions more who pose as liberals but really don't believe in what there selling. The tides are turning my friends. The red wave is soon to pass through you too. Stay tuned...
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on May 15, 18 1:21 PM
Tell us more about the millions "who pose as liberals but really don't believe in what there selling."
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 15, 18 2:01 PM
DAN IS CORRECT !

Drudge Report

Laura Ingraham despite recent controversies surrounding her 10 p.m. show, had a big week in the ratings, managing to beat MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow at 9 p.m. in the key 25-54 demo for the first time ever. The Ingraham Angle notched 2.7 million total viewers and 556,000 in the demo.
By Ditch Bum (466), Water Mill on May 15, 18 2:48 PM
Why are they comparing shows that are not airing during the same time?

Why is the comparison only in one particular demographic?

Because it's more favorable to Laura's show than the full picture?

Alright then.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 15, 18 3:02 PM
The 9 slot that Rachel has should draw more of an audience but it doesn't...... then the 10 spot that Laura has let's get real now also the 25 to 55 demographic is the coveted target in the industry but you already knew that
By widow gavits (174), sag harbor on May 15, 18 3:51 PM
The 9 slot that Rachel has should draw more of an audience but it doesn't...... then the 10 spot that Laura has let's get real now also the 25 to 55 demographic is the coveted target in the industry but you already knew that
By widow gavits (174), sag harbor on May 15, 18 3:51 PM
I think it's because Laura wasn't the best in her timeslot, nor did she beat out Rachel in the overall ratings.

I personally don't care about either of those people and can't be bothered to do the research, but that's my inference based on the narrow statistic being presented.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 15, 18 4:00 PM
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By highhatsize (3525), East Quogue on May 15, 18 12:48 PM
Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer.

“In a long overdue move, we have moved our embassy to Jerusalem,” Schumer said in a statement Monday morning. “Every nation should have the right to choose its capital. I sponsored legislation to do this two decades ago, and I now applaud President Trump for doing it.”
By joe hampton (3093), The Hamptons on May 16, 18 6:53 AM
LEAKERS TO NYT CONFIRM FBI RAN SPY OPERATION AGAINST TRUMP CAMPAIGN !

There was never any trump Russia collusion it was a cover up for the real crime !
By 27dan (2328), Shinnecock Hills on May 17, 18 8:50 AM
1 member liked this comment
The game is over the Dem's have been destroyed, this is treason and it goes straight to Obama and all the usual suspects went along for the ride from Kerry to Hillary, Lynch to McCain...

First they did fast and furious to flank the second amendment as well as manipulate of amnesty.

Then a little election tampering gambit.. by letting armed radicals get away with fascist coercion at voting stations.

Then they went after the first Amendment by attacking the few legitimate ...more
By They call me (2331), southampton on May 17, 18 9:06 AM
Waiting to see which loony leftist on here first calls you a conspiracy theorist or racist or bigot or all three. Will it be Fore1gn, hihatsize, JuneBug?? I'm taking bets here. We will never have a country until we rid ourselves of these radical left, liberal, ideologs. Yes, the same people who think taking down statues of historical figures. The ones who want to erase American history off the planet to start anew. The ones that want to scrap our constitution. Those ones. The looney left. LIBERALISM ...more
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on May 17, 18 9:22 AM
"At least one government informant met several times with Mr. Page and Mr. Papadopoulos"

That doesn't confirm a planted FBI "spy" any more than it confirms there was a whistle-blower cooperating with police because he/she had a guilty conscience or merely wanted to save his/her own tail.

Go Mueller go!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 17, 18 9:28 AM
1 member liked this comment
Hey they call me, the deep state? Kinda funny because the FBI are republican appointee people. Armed radicals at the voting stations? You get better and better with your delusional conspiracy’s. Here’s a little hint, Hillary isn’t the president, your man is. It would be nice if you backed up your crazy claims with any kind of reputable news sources . But carry on, your very entertaining.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 17, 18 9:22 AM
2 members liked this comment
Hey they call me, the deep state? Kinda funny because the FBI are republican appointee people. Armed radicals at the voting stations? You get better and better with your delusional conspiracy’s. Here’s a little hint, Hillary isn’t the president, your man is. It would be nice if you backed up your crazy claims with any kind of reputable news sources . But carry on, your very entertaining.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 17, 18 9:22 AM
1 member liked this comment
Hey they call me...I was wrong. It wasn't any of the 3 I named. It was Fred S. He wrote "better with your delusional conspiracy’s". I told you that this is what you'll hear. It's Liberalism 101. They hear or read a fact and they curl up into the fetal position and hurl insults like widdle babies.Textbook. Predictable. Sickening. No argument against the facts because their is no critical thinking. Just drivel and insults or they try to change the way the game is played. Case in point...the ...more
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on May 17, 18 9:29 AM
It's not really productive (though very entertaining) to engage with folks who think you are a "monster" and have a "mental disorder," but I responded to dan above if you're curious.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 17, 18 9:35 AM
Didn't the media make fun of Trump for saying he was being spied on? Hmm so he's right again. Shameless MSM will not acknowledge it. History will judge Donald Trump with far more sympathy than it will his opponents, who reveal themselves to be a parasitic cabal that feeds off their own nation's decline.Trump needs to start declassifying everything Congress is calling for!! We need a special counsel to start prosecuting.
By Ditch Bum (466), Water Mill on May 17, 18 9:54 AM
2 members liked this comment
Can we please stop with the twisting and distorting into an alternate reality that makes you feel good? The FBI was INVESTIGATING the trump campaign because of CONTACTS with Russia while Moscow was ATTACKING the United States with information warfare. But the cultists are right: this is indeed bigger than Watergate because it involves aiding and abetting a foreign foe. A/K/A TREASON. Try patriotism, why don't you?
May 17, 18 11:07 AM appended by June Bug
And btw, there's no Obama FBI or trump FBI. Stop denigrating the American citizens who work there to keep us all safe.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 17, 18 11:07 AM
I say just let them feel good.

Facts don't care about feelings.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 17, 18 11:13 AM
1 member liked this comment
Check out how Trump is getting democrats
and the media to defend MS-13 gang members!
...the man is a genius
May 17, 18 3:28 PM appended by loading...
... OMG he called them "animals"!! Ask someone you know from CI or Brentwood what they think
By loading... (544), quiogue on May 17, 18 3:28 PM
1 member liked this comment
Are we defending their criminal acts, or refusing to condone their dehumanization?

Justice is punishment doled out free from emotion.
May 17, 18 3:32 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
I didn't realize we were holding POTUS and a random Joe Shmoe from up-island to the same standards, but maybe I should have.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 17, 18 3:32 PM
What sane person would say anything to dehumanize
the hackers of people?
By loading... (544), quiogue on May 17, 18 3:56 PM
1 member liked this comment
An emotional one, I'd wager.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 17, 18 3:57 PM
"Not even a murderer loses his personal dignity, and God himself pledges to guarantee this."
St. John Paul II, "Evangelium Vitae."
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 17, 18 5:57 PM
Goodness, the hypocrisy. The line just before that, is "Life, human life above all, belongs to God alone." The Evangelium Vitae speaks to the value and Inviolability of Human Life, calling for cultural change and "correct scale of values."

Rather odd quote selection for a pro-choice Democrat, I'd say.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 17, 18 7:54 PM
Hypocrisy? Au contraire. A non-viable fetus is only human life in the same way a strand of hair or a fingernail is human life. And we certainly do need cultural change and a "correct scale of values". Are you in? We'll know when you express disgust over trump's racist and Hitleresque rhetoric, his lying, his adultery, his lawlessness, and the need for a leader who lends dignity to the office.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 17, 18 8:47 PM
im sorry for you and your loss
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on May 17, 18 9:14 PM
2 members liked this comment
The persistent desire of genuinely religious people to mount defenses for an obviously irreligious, unfaithful, race-baiting hedonist will plague my confidence in reason unto my grave.
---Fr. William Dailey, CSC
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 17, 18 9:27 PM
"A non-viable fetus is only human life in the same way a strand of hair or a fingernail is human life."

How convenient to grasp to the a human defined parameter. God sees it differently - you would know this if you were truly Christian . Placing human determinations over that of God is pure arrogance - also a human quality. Any Christian and True Believer would never place ego and self of mankind over that of Him.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 18, 18 8:52 AM
Oh boy, some big time claptrap.
"God sees it differently". Do tell us how you know what "God sees".
And tell us what Jesus of Nazareth had to say about abortion. Or where it's mentioned in the Old Testament, the New Testament, in the Sermon on the Mount, in any creed...?
"Over that of Him"? Huh? Apart from the syntax, since when does God the Father have a gender? LMAO.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 18, 18 10:16 AM
1 member liked this comment
It's ok June, He loves you even so.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 18, 18 10:57 AM
1 member liked this comment
What? No answers to my questions?

Only children believe in fairy tales, Po.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 18, 18 11:04 AM
Why would I answer your questions, June? You're entitled to your opinion of what to believe, or not. You can take that up with St. John Paul II when you see him next, since you quoted him.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 18, 18 12:59 PM
Hey DiseaseDiocese, doing away with gerrymandering and voter suppression is not changing the rules of an election. It’s all settled in courts of law, not court of public opinion. I’m sorry if you don’t like people disagreeing with you. But if you state facts that are actually true, no one would challenge their authenticity. I’m not curled up or whining , just responding to you false statements.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 17, 18 9:58 AM
One day people will realize that the billionaire president is the embodiment of the swamp he swore to combat. He doesn't care about you, folks...he's only looking out for number one.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 17, 18 10:28 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 17, 18 10:35 AM
Keep on keeping on President Trump an keep on keeping America Great!
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 17, 18 2:34 PM
After Pruitt is done, the swamp won’t be habitable for a frog. But the swamp Trump is creating will grow and grow.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 17, 18 10:33 AM
Thank God for President Trump
By widow gavits (174), sag harbor on May 17, 18 6:07 PM
Maybe that guy knows who removed two SARS records on Michael Cohen's suspicious fiscal transactions from the FINCEN system. He's omnipotent, right?
By Mr. Z (10086), North Sea on May 17, 18 7:53 PM
Trump has done nothing to "drain the swamp". All he's done is trade one swamp for another.

He's full of ****, and so are his supporters.
By Mr. Z (10086), North Sea on May 17, 18 7:30 PM
1 member liked this comment
I am unaware of geniuses that talk like that. You're an outlier, I guess.
By SlimeAlive (811), Southampton on May 18, 18 7:18 AM
AP ISSUES RETRACTION, DELETES TRUMP “ANIMAL” TWEET
MSM admits he was speaking about MS-13

Seems to us its the Media that is full of **** 24 - 7 since the election!

And for the record they ARE animals !
By Ditch Bum (466), Water Mill on May 17, 18 9:19 PM
"These aren't people. These are animals."
This isn't a president. This is Putin's pet poodle.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 17, 18 9:30 PM
There are many reasons to vote Democrat...
Democrats want to turn our sons into women and/or homosexuals and our daughters into man haters.
Democrats want to release dangerous criminals into the streets while taking away our right to protect ourselves and our families.
Democrats care more about illegals than they do citizens.
Democrats hate Christians but love muslims.
Democrats demonize business owners who work 60 hours a week but glorify bums who choose not to work.
Democrats ...more
By They call me (2331), southampton on May 18, 18 7:38 AM
Sorry to break it to you: they are people, and there but for the grace of god go you or I.
May 18, 18 7:40 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Yikes, TCM. If your political opponents are the "enemy of humanity" that pretty much settles it in your view, right?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 18, 18 7:40 AM
Busy week for Democrats, you know, defending MS-13 and the terrorist group Hamas and all.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 18, 18 8:36 AM
1 member liked this comment
Defending the humanity of the most despicable people protects you too, po.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 18, 18 9:47 AM
Post of the year. Atta boy. Don't you just love the truth? I'll add that most of the REAL racists I know are liberals. You know, the ones who pose and "champion" for minorities when they wouldn't even think about living near or around one themselves. Hypocritical sickos.
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on May 18, 18 9:55 AM
1 member liked this comment
The Second Amendment protects me Fore, you too.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 18, 18 11:02 AM
Except of course in certain schools, movie theatres, churches, outdoor concerts, military bases....
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 18, 18 11:07 AM
...and many other "gun-free zones"
By loading... (544), quiogue on May 18, 18 11:16 AM
Don't forget the NRA convention, June!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 18, 18 11:23 AM
Yes Fore, you know better than the Secret Service.

PS... did you notice June's use of military bases in her de facto list of "gun free zones?" 98% of mass shootings occur in gun free zones, you know.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 18, 18 11:35 AM
I didn't say that, I only pointed out that the NRA convention was a gun-free zone. No need to get emotional, Po.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 18, 18 11:38 AM
Who needs emotion when you have facts. Snopes says you're full of it.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 18, 18 12:42 PM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By VOS (1065), WHB on May 18, 18 8:17 PM
You're right, the convention hall was only gun-free before and during the VP's visit, because apparently he's the only one who benefits from gun-free zones.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 19, 18 10:10 AM
A "blue wave" was never more than wishful thinking by the socialists.
By Ditch Bum (466), Water Mill on May 18, 18 1:37 AM
Tuesday’s primary election in Pennsylvania saw young progressive women who were backed by Democratic Socialists of America winning Democratic primaries all over the place—in cities and suburbs, to the west and to the east. “We’re turning the state the right shade of red tonight,” declared Arielle Cohen, the co-chair of the Pittsburgh chapter of DSA
There's your "wishful thinking" Bum. And cutting back Planned Parenthood funding now, are you? Guess you ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 18, 18 7:21 PM
Is Eric Schneiderman off-topic?

...this is a test.
By loading... (544), quiogue on May 18, 18 8:51 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 18, 18 9:42 AM
1 member liked this comment
The GOP's unwillingness to even enter a discussion on gun control has now claimed the lives of more innocent children.

Way to go, guys.

By johnj (795), Westhampton on May 18, 18 11:17 AM
That's it johnj, waste no time scoring cheap political points before even one fact is known.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 18, 18 11:28 AM
Correction:

Busy week for Democrats, you know, defending MS-13 and the terrorist group Hamas....and now, cheap political points on gun control,
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 18, 18 11:37 AM
1 member liked this comment
And your comments are not cheap political points? None of them are fact based.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 18, 18 11:58 AM
Just wait for him to pull out the "fact" that "98%" of "mass shootings" happen in "gun-free-zones"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 18, 18 12:12 PM
Not to be confused of course, with mass shootings that occur in the home or in the commission of another crime. After all, clouding the issues really does serve "common sense" well.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 18, 18 12:38 PM
He quotes John Lott, his facts are all fake.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 18, 18 12:20 PM
What, you think Lott manufactured mass shootings in his study, LMAO. The data speaks for itself. I guess you prefer to play dueling definitions.

If you don't like how a mass shooting is defined - preferring it tell a different story to include domestic violence in the home - essentially preferring semantics and obfuscating the issue and problem- that's an entirely different discussion. Looking at data from 1950 to 2016 and excluding shootings that resulted from gang or drug violence or ...more
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 18, 18 12:35 PM
Don't forget the part about characterizing places with ample armed protection as "gun-free"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 18, 18 12:38 PM
Wouldn't dream of it.Following FBI definition, Lott clearly identifies his parameters to be places where the public is banned from carrying guns.
May 18, 18 12:50 PM appended by Po Boy
The FBI defines ‘public’ places as ‘including commercial areas (divided into malls, businesses open to pedestrian traffic, and businesses closed to pedestrian traffic), educational environments (divided into schools [pre-kindergarten through 12th grade, open spaces, government properties (divided into military and other government properties), houses of worship, and health care facilities.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 18, 18 12:50 PM
Many of which are already staffed by "good guys with guns," presumed to be the conservative solution.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 18, 18 12:58 PM
Actually, the "good guys with guns" is your solution (as well).
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 18, 18 3:29 PM
Though I haven't expressed opposition, it certainly isn't my proposal.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 18, 18 3:44 PM
You've been very clear early on in other discussion, you were in favor of it...even suggested it I believe.

You know, arm veterans and give them security jobs in schools.

Ring a bell?
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 18, 18 5:31 PM
My support was more of a "why not?" than anything. I believe someone else brought it up originally, maybe even you.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 18, 18 6:18 PM
Nope, not me. I'm personally not sold on the idea in general. I'm of the mindset that there is simply too much square footage in most schools, and while some benefit will certainly result, problem diagnosis continues to ignore the core issue, lack of family values, removal of faith from schools, societal issues...etc.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 18, 18 6:28 PM
A problem diagnosis is kind of useless without a proposed solution.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 18, 18 11:20 PM
Ban Liberalism.

Problem solved.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 21, 18 3:28 PM
Write a bill, Po ;-)
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 21, 18 3:34 PM
When you do an analysis like Lott, your findings have to be peer reviewed. It’s to make sure your not using flawed analysis . His papers are not reviewed. The ones that are reviewed don’t hold up to scrutiny. You can say I don’t like his “facts” , but they aren’t facts. The are his opinions.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 18, 18 12:40 PM
He uses real events, defines the scope of the analysis, clearly identifies the parameters of the analysis and data....

It most certainly is facts. Lott makes it VERY clear he looked only at mass public shootings. The confusion stems differing definitions.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 18, 18 12:47 PM
Yes, it is very clear he looked at the data in a way that arrived at the desired conclusion.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 18, 18 1:01 PM
He simply didn't see the relevance or correlation of shootings during other crime and of that committed during domestic violence to that of random acts of mass shooting violence.

That's a reasonable conclusion.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 18, 18 3:09 PM
I'm sure you think so, but I don't.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 18, 18 3:43 PM
There’s no confusion, he’s not peer reviewed. It’s flawed analysis. I like how one of his peers defending his work was actually Lott posing as a female.its fake statistics.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 18, 18 12:59 PM
Nonsense. External entities have looked at his work and concluded the same thing; his data and analysis is for the most part solid and they note the difference in his work and others are the inputs to the analysis.

So, to summarize, because uber Left academia won't peer review his work, you claim it "fake statistics" even though his work has been published in numerous publications - even the NY Times and Boston Globe. Yeah, well, the data is what the data is.
May 18, 18 3:27 PM appended by Po Boy
And to be clear, I'm speaking specifically to the statistic that "98% of mass shootings occur in gun free zones."
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 18, 18 3:27 PM
Now we're going to have kids at this Texas high school and across the country marching and kids insisting on gun control, and the media exploiting the kids to advance an agenda. MSM would never report this way if it came to the 1st Amendment and Freedom of the Press. They’d be indignant. They’d be furious. Certain liberties matter and certain liberties don’t.

Exactly what kind of anti 2nd Amendment federal law would have stopped this mass murderer today?

Now, ...more
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on May 18, 18 3:48 PM
That question, while totally valid, is a little premature.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 18, 18 4:05 PM
The kind of laws implemented by Australia, Japan, Norway and the UK that have resulted in near zero mass shootings.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 18, 18 4:35 PM
It wasn't even a big black scary gun, you know, the evil kind. It was an assault shotgun and assault handgun.

Sorry June, even those laws wouldn't have stopped this. Wasn't it you or maybe metsfan who suggested only allowing possession of a shotgun and a revolver?

As long as the problem goes incorrectly diagnosed at its core, these will continue to occur. IT'S NOT THE GUN!


By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 18, 18 6:22 PM
So how is it that those laws work in the four countries cited?
And why were no guns allowed at the NRA conference?
And why must nuclear weapons be banned, but not guns?

May 18, 18 6:33 PM appended by June Bug
And Po, if your “militia” is “well regulated,” as the 2nd Amendment states, who is your commander, and why does he tolerate school shootings?
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 18, 18 6:33 PM
Actually, when you break down the demographics of those countries to reflect population size in states, there is very little difference in countries with strict laws and laws within the US.

Guns weren't banned from the NRA conference - Snopes.

Idiotic question on nuclear weapons. Your question on "well regulated militia" demonstrates your lack of understanding of the intent of the language to reflect all citizenry.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 21, 18 2:58 PM
You're right, the convention hall was only gun-free before and during the VP's visit, because apparently he's the only one who benefits from gun-free zones.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 21, 18 3:12 PM
But alas, didn't you argue military bases weren't gun free zones because they had security?

Wouldn't the Secret Service thereby make it NOTa gun free zone?

If it weren't for double standards, Democrats would have no standards at all!
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 21, 18 5:24 PM
Secure our schools like the Israelis? Are we at war with anyone in this country? We have to protect ourselves from ourselves? Let’s make the schools like prisons. What happens when someone is killing people inside, can you escape?home of the free and land of the brave. With every structure “hardened “ against ourselves.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 18, 18 4:27 PM
Hey Po Boy, if it wasn’t the gun, what was it? His shoelace? Maybe the kids buttons were popping off and killing people.I can’t think of anything else.It does seem kinda coincidental that he had guns with him. Do you think the guns had anything to do with it? Just a hypothetical question.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 18, 18 7:50 PM
Anyone else out of breadcrumbs?
By Mr. Z (10086), North Sea on May 18, 18 11:56 PM
As usual, the cry-baby right goes it's too early for talk on gun control, have some respect.Thoughts and prayers are necessary at this time. The new mantra is, you see gun reform wouldn't have stopped this. Why didn't the "responsible gun-toting dad" have his guns locked up? Gun licensing should be done like motor vehicles. Integrated data base with police records, checking public media such as Facebook,(hey you put it out there on Facebook, it's public domain), Mental Illness test, education on ...more
By Mets fan (1125), Southampton on May 19, 18 8:21 AM
You have an opportunity to change this in November. If you think it can't happen to you because you live in a "good neighborhood," you want to chance that every time you send your child to school. Why would you re-elect a congressman who is bought and paid for by the NRA. Doing nothing is not an option now. My above post is just a start for gun reform.
By Mets fan (1125), Southampton on May 19, 18 8:28 AM
1 member liked this comment
Blah, Blah, Blah. Typical response. You have no answers for my original question of what kind of a federal gun control law would have stopped this killer. This is avoidance at it's best. But do you want to know the truth? I jumped on the opportunity to raise the question as soon as I heard Fake Tapper from CNN exploit it right after it happened. If he and the rest of MSM can do it...so can I!!!!
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on May 19, 18 11:40 AM
1 member liked this comment
Severe penalty for not securing firearms used in mass murder
By Mets fan (1125), Southampton on May 19, 18 12:20 PM
"Severe penalty for not securing firearms used in mass murder"

This I absolutely agree with. I am a gun owner. Unless they are on my person, my guns are locked up at all times. Irresponsible gun owners, if you want to protect your rights, start with securing your firearms so that those of us who are responsible with them don't have to make excuses for why yours were so easy to obtain.
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on May 19, 18 2:27 PM
2 members liked this comment
Good answer, just let the killing continue. Don’t even think to try and figure something out.keep up the good work.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 19, 18 12:14 PM
If he didn't have the guns, the bombs he planted around the school would have gone off. How would you stop that? IT'S A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE! Don't you get it????? Stop the misplaced hostility towards the 2nd Amendment. It won't stop bullies, teen suicides or massacres, just deflect to the behavior to other means.
By Taz (413), East Quogue on May 19, 18 12:19 PM
The bombs didn’t go off, the guns did. Your right, I have a little hostility. Kids are being slaughtered, and we are supposed to act like nothings wrong. If your happy with it, live with it. The whole thing of it coulda been something else is such a lame tact to take.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 19, 18 12:23 PM
It's not a lame act. THE BOMBS WERE THERE!!! FACT.
By Taz (413), East Quogue on May 19, 18 12:32 PM
There were no bombs, Taz. FACT! A bucket of hardware does not become a bomb without some explosive capacity. Nothing there was explosive or even flammable. FACT!

Don't you get it? He used guns to kill ten people! The guns were his tools - nothing else and he chose those tools because they were very effective at performing the task and very easy to get. Try to deny that and ask why it's so important to you for every nitwit in the country to have easy access to such deadly tools.
By VOS (1065), WHB on May 20, 18 12:50 AM
There were no bombs, Taz. FACT! A bucket of hardware does not become a bomb without some explosive capacity. Nothing there was explosive or even flammable. FACT!

Don't you get it? He used guns to kill ten people! The guns were his tools - nothing else and he chose those tools because they were very effective at performing the task and very easy to get. Try to deny that and ask why it's so important to you for every nitwit in the country to have easy access to such deadly tools.
By VOS (1065), WHB on May 20, 18 12:50 AM
We'll see in November if people re-elect congressmen who are bought and paid for by NRA. Everybody wears a seat belt, everybody takes their shoes off at the airport, but magically there's nothing that can be done to keep guns out of reckless, dangerous, irresponsible, mentally ill people. I mentioned a few options, time for action unless you find it bearable to have murdered school children all across America.
By Mets fan (1125), Southampton on May 19, 18 12:33 PM
I know they were there. I never said they weren’t. I said they didn’t go off. The guns went off FACT. 10 dead FACT. Many wounded FACT
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 19, 18 12:34 PM
Spin it as you wish. The mental health of our country is in big trouble. Ignore it at your own risk.
By Taz (413), East Quogue on May 19, 18 12:47 PM
2 members liked this comment
I’m not ignoring anything. They are using guns, not bananas. Your ignoring the elephant in the room. It’s not spin. Spin is when you say it’s not the guns.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 19, 18 12:50 PM
I never said it wasn't the guns. I said if not guns, other means would have been used. Like the BOMBS that were there. Too much violence in our country won't be solved by punishing citizens for their right to the 2nd amendment. Better enforcement of the gun laws we already have on the books, and yes, as stated above, severe punishment to those whose careless ownership results in violence. Our FBI and Justice Dept are often to blame when troubled people are ignored, as in Florida. The Boston ...more
By Taz (413), East Quogue on May 19, 18 1:04 PM
You mean the bombs he tried to deploy but apparently didn't kill anyone?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 19, 18 1:16 PM
Metsfan, weren't you a proponent of the shotgun and revolver solution?
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on May 19, 18 2:22 PM
That's right. Don't have any laws, people still commit crimes. Why have DWI laws, people still drive drunk. Get a new talking point.
By Mets fan (1125), Southampton on May 20, 18 8:37 AM
He was, dnice.
May 21, 18 2:49 PM appended by Po Boy
Oopsie...
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 21, 18 2:49 PM
What talking point are you referring to? I was asking about your brilliant contribution, or rather, dumb suggestion to gun control.
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on May 21, 18 8:39 PM
No one wants to punish people for their 2nd amendment rights. I’ve never said that. Just stop ignoring the fact that these are mass shootings. I never blame the FBI for any of this , that’s not my talking point. By just saying nothing can be done is sheer lunacy.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 19, 18 1:24 PM
Oh I guess he just put the bombs there not to use them. They were intended for use, either as an addition to the guns or by another person who I heard might have been involved. Eliminating guns will not eliminate crazies from disastrous violence. They can buy fertilizer, pressure cookers, drive cars, vans or trucks into crowds, or perpetrate multiple stabbings, etc... I'm done with this conversation.
By Taz (413), East Quogue on May 19, 18 1:28 PM
You can be done all you want, but the fact is that the bombs, which you point to as proof that this type of tragedy is unpreventable, FAILED TO HURT ANYONE.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 19, 18 1:33 PM
But they haven't failed in the past.
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on May 19, 18 2:21 PM
But the FACT is that, in THIS case, both guns and bombs were deployed but only the guns were used to take lives.

If you're on the "mass murderers would have accomplished the same thing without guns"-train this is a bad example.
May 20, 18 8:21 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
1.) That would actually support of federal apparatus that applies to everyone so legislation in one locality isn't rendered ineffective by carefree/careless neighbors. 2.) Whoever their leadership is, Gary, Indiana has relatively high rates of crime and the state of Indiana has very liberal (note the lowercase L) gun laws.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 20, 18 8:21 AM
Taz please, stop making excuses. Your right he could have used anything. But the attack was with GUNS.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 19, 18 1:30 PM
Metal detectors at the SINGLE ENTRANCE TO every school I the country. That would have this animal from shooting up the school. No semi automatic weapons used, just a shotgun and a 38 revolver, imagine that.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on May 19, 18 1:42 PM
2 members liked this comment
You mean protect the buildings that house all the community's children every day better than you protect the jewelry store that houses some useless material goods? Nah, too expensive and upsetting for people....
By even flow (626), East Hampton on May 20, 18 7:15 AM
Tell that to the murdered kids parents, that should reassure them.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 19, 18 1:49 PM

Taz asserts "IT'S A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE! Don't you get it?????".
If that's the root cause, why (with rare exception) are perpetrators only male?
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on May 19, 18 4:14 PM
1 member liked this comment
Since the shooting in Santa Fe, TX, there have been 3 killed and 17 wounded in Chicago. In the first 5 months of 2018 alone, the equivalent shooting deaths of over 100 Santa Fe Shootings have occurred in Chicago this year - 900 shot and killed, down from 1200 this time last year.

Not a peep about gun control or anything else for that matter from anyone relative to that nightmare.
May 20, 18 6:50 AM appended by even flow
2 things come to mind in light of the 2 replies below. 1.) they are an admission that gun control laws are useless and 2.) Gary, IN is a Democrat stronghold.
By even flow (626), East Hampton on May 20, 18 6:50 AM
It doesn't matter what laws Chicago passes when Gary, Indiana is right up the street.
May 20, 18 8:19 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
train this is a bad example. May 20, 18 8:21 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown 1.) That would actually support of federal apparatus that applies to everyone so legislation in one locality isn't rendered ineffective by carefree/careless neighbors. 2.) Whoever their leadership is, Gary, Indiana has relatively high rates of crime and the state of Indiana has very liberal (note the lowercase L) gun laws.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 20, 18 8:19 AM
Get a new talking point. Drive right over the border to Indiana, where nothing is required.
By Mets fan (1125), Southampton on May 20, 18 8:39 AM
Hey Mf, hows that plan to allow everyone only a shotgun and revolver going?
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 21, 18 2:48 PM
Good point. School shootings and the Chicago shootings do have one thing in common.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 20, 18 8:30 AM
They have no new talking points, same tired excuses. But they did change tactics when the attacked the kids from parkland. Pawns of parkland, kids who eat tide pods, manipulated kids. Classic
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 20, 18 9:55 AM
I agree with big fresh, metal detector and single point entry is a good start for schools.then you have the pesky problem of every other location in the country.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 20, 18 11:40 AM
I suppose door-control is better than shrugs and hand-wringing.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 20, 18 12:01 PM
It’s a start. If that’s the only thing that happens, pretty pathetic.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 20, 18 12:27 PM
I'm not going to talk about Chicago but it does seem like the word Chicago seems to always trigger the left. Why? Is it that the murder rate of 15.65 per 100,000 people scare you? Or is it that the truth scares you? Or is it that Chicago has been run by liberals forever and NOTHING has changed? Or is it that Chicago has the strictest gun laws in America but can't find a cure for the highest murder rate? You want to talk about the second amendment and why their are no guns at the NRA conventions ...more
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on May 20, 18 3:04 PM
What does "triggered" mean to you?

I have a boilerplate answer because "what about Chicago" is a conservative trope.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 20, 18 3:46 PM
Read previous posts, they buy illegal guns right across the border in Indiana which has no requirements for purchases. Get a new talking point, because their is dead children, butchered and massacred, all across this country.
By Mets fan (1125), Southampton on May 20, 18 6:47 PM
Chicago is a liberal democrat stronghold with a large population of thugs and gangstas with little regard for human life. Liberal utopia
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on May 20, 18 7:43 PM
Nice try, right over the border in Gary, Indiana. You know, the home of the other NRA bought politician, homophobe Pence.
By Mets fan (1125), Southampton on May 20, 18 8:31 PM
The city is also on pace to have a third consecutive year with a decrease in homicides.

Don't let the perfect be an enemy of the good.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 20, 18 8:31 PM
Chicago year to date:
Shot & Killed: 156
Shot & Wounded: 794
Total Shot: 950
Total Homicides: 189
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 21, 18 10:52 AM
1 member liked this comment
Children shot to death in schools this year: 29

Military combat-related fatalities this year: 13
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 21, 18 11:01 AM
How many more dead children before we replace "All weapons are prohibited on these premises" with...

"Staff heavily armed and trained. Any attempt to harm children will be met with deadly force."
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 21, 18 1:35 PM
As long as it doesn't read "All weapons welcome!"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 21, 18 1:39 PM
"All good guys with weapons welcome!"!

What? You're not willing to do whatever to save children.

I see.

Oh that's right...the school will break out into the wild west. Riiiight.... because, that happens all the time.



By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 21, 18 1:48 PM
Just check the box on the right for "good guy" and the box on the left for "bad guy" right?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 21, 18 1:52 PM
No, the bad guys would be the ones murdering kids.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 21, 18 2:46 PM
Oooh, so until they start murdering kids (or engaging in any criminal act, to avoid pedantry), all people carrying legally are good guys?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 21, 18 3:16 PM
In the eyes of the law, right you are.

Bravo! We've cracked the code!!

Po Boy, out!
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 21, 18 3:25 PM
That's awfully absolutist. Perhaps there's no such thing as "good" or "bad" guys with a gun. Perhaps there's just people with guns who choose to do good and bad things.

For example, are you really saying that the Vegas shooter was a good guy right up until the moment he committed a crime?

Seems like a recipe for failure to stop any mass shootings.

See ya!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 21, 18 3:33 PM
The truth scares you, you should try it sometime
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 20, 18 3:23 PM
"Amazon Women in the Mood"


Great Futurama episode. Reminiscent of Trump and the sorry state that got him elected.
By Mr. Z (10086), North Sea on May 20, 18 5:49 PM
Which sorry state? You surely must be talking about the one Obama put us in, correct? The one where the public hates the police, and the one that black found a new found hatred for whites? The one that bashes men for being men? That sorry state? Why do you think Trump got elected? Because he's such a nice, classy guy....or was it because Obama swung the pendulum too far left? I know the answer...do you?
And in regards to metal detectors. It's not as easy as just installing magnetometers in ...more
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on May 20, 18 6:50 PM
The orange cheetoh has been president for sixteen months, there are dead school children across the whole country. The gutless tangerine toddler will never go against the bankroller of his administration. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the meaning of insanity. So expect a lot more dead school children.
By Mets fan (1125), Southampton on May 20, 18 8:39 PM
Funny story: the last school shooting in New York STATE was in 2004.

The last school shooting in NYC? 2002.

The last school shooting in NYC that resulted in any deaths? 1992.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 20, 18 8:54 PM
Why keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill, when you can turn every public school into a supermax prison?

Seems logical...
By Mr. Z (10086), North Sea on May 21, 18 8:16 PM
A metsfan so anti orange is quite ironic. But then again if you've seen the Mets play lately.....
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on May 21, 18 8:33 PM
THIS IS THE TRUTH. You kidding? It’s your OPINION, warped as it is. But thanks for it, I needed a good laugh. THIS IS THE TRUTH, you crack me up.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 20, 18 7:11 PM
PRESIDENT DONALD J TRUMP !
May 20, 18 11:01 PM appended by They call me
KEEP AMERICA GREAT !
By They call me (2331), southampton on May 20, 18 11:01 PM
The New York Post : Stefan Halper, a Cambridge professor and longtime aide to some of Washington’s most powerful figures, was outed as an FBI informant planted inside Donald Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign.

The Democrats have doubled down - and doubled down again - to the point where they have passed infinity !!!

The house is crumbling around them and even CNN will have to admit it now !
There is no way back !!!

MAGA
May 21, 18 9:16 AM appended by 27dan
From The Hill: Mark Penn — Hillary Clinton’s chief strategist during her 2008 presidential campaign who has served the Clinton family since the mid-90s — lowers the boom on Robert Mueller, Rod Rosenstein, Christopher Steele, the Clinton Foundation, and the intelligence community’s “deep state,” laying out the absurdity and the danger of the Obama administration’s abuse of surveillance and law enforcement against political enemies.
By 27dan (2328), Shinnecock Hills on May 21, 18 9:16 AM
Hillary Clinton
would like to offer her condolences
to the family of Stefan Halper
due to his impending
suicide.
By They call me (2331), southampton on May 21, 18 9:23 AM
So obvious what happened here and now the knives are coming out ,,, the backstabbing begins today,, its going to be a liberal knife fight. The real question is when do people start going to jail? We all know there were many crimes committed.
By Ditch Bum (466), Water Mill on May 21, 18 9:28 AM
Isn't it weird how Trump regularly distances himself from folks who were once in his inner circle, but some guy who met with Papadopoulos and Page one time was suddenly "inside" the campaign.

Bear in mind that, legally speaking, they don't even need probable cause to use informants.

If it was done with the intent to investigate a crime, I don't see anything wrong with it. If it was done with the purpose of hurting the Trump campaign, I do.
May 21, 18 9:31 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Hey Ditch, can you name one of the "many crimes...committed"?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 21, 18 9:31 AM
Not weird to me ...This President has shown incredible patience and restraint. He's allowed the witch hunt to continue to the point where the public is now on his side, and now he's playing the card he's been holding the entire time. Brilliant. Keep your eye on Brenner he is the ring leader and will definatly where the bricks start to fall!
By joe hampton (3093), The Hamptons on May 21, 18 9:33 AM
2 members liked this comment
But what's wrong with chatting with Papadopoulos? Wasn't he just "the coffee boy"?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 21, 18 9:39 AM
ProPublica reports the Republican National Committee (RNC) has set yet another fundraising record, while the Democratic National Committee (DNC) registered its lowest figure in April during a midterm election cycle since 2006.

Maybe the DNC can reach out for donations to the newest members of their base, .....MS-13.
By They call me (2331), southampton on May 21, 18 9:51 AM
Hillary outspent Trump. What'd that get her?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 21, 18 9:53 AM
Exoneration.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 21, 18 11:07 AM
Oh, so that's what the cash is for. Let's see if it works for POTUS et al!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 21, 18 11:10 AM
A fake dossier...
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 21, 18 11:14 AM
Well the dossier factually exists...ergo not fake.

You may be referring to the information therein, but...can you specify what part has been disproven?

It actually seems more and more is corroborated each day.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 21, 18 11:34 AM
Liar!
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 21, 18 1:03 PM
1 member liked this comment
So you can't specify? Alright then.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 21, 18 1:33 PM
Fake...fake fakity fake...

And you willingly play the game as if it wasn't.

You know what that makes you?
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 21, 18 1:40 PM
1 member liked this comment
Someone who is woefully failing to draw a straight answer from you? Yep, that's me.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 21, 18 1:46 PM
L
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 21, 18 2:39 PM
Hey they call me, the encore can get money from the Russians and Saudis. Or they can launder it thru NRA.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 21, 18 10:16 AM
Auto correct,RNC
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 21, 18 10:17 AM
Joe Hampton, 2 things trump doesn’t possess, patience and restraint. It’s nice he is letting the investigation continue, seeing how they are investigating trump.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 21, 18 10:58 AM
Liberal logic:

Don't call MS-13 animals..

But he NRA are terrorists.
By Po Boy (1648), Water Mill on May 21, 18 11:05 AM
2 members liked this comment
P0 Boy , same tired talking points. It gets old
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 21, 18 11:33 AM
Hey Fore1gn, your last few posts have a very 3rd grade "nanny nanny poo poo" feel to them. You liberals are really all insane. No logic. Especially you Fred. You ridicule my last post when I said "THIS IS THE TRUTH". You said it was my "opinion". If you only knew, buddy. I don't divulge my personal information on here in regards to what I do for a living and what I do/don't know. I wish I felt comfortable enough giving you my email to explain further about what I do and what I've seen. That "opinion" ...more
By DiseaseDiocese (76), Riverhead on May 21, 18 6:46 PM
What does "3rd grade nanny nanny poo poo" mean?

I would surmise that the Bronx student from last year didn't get taken into account because he wasn't shot in school.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 21, 18 8:02 PM
Diseased , I don’t care what you do or who you are. You gave your opinion, not facts.plus I’m sure Pink Floyd would approve of you using their lyrics to make your point, which is over the top. You act like your the only person who’s had life experiences that temper their opinions. Back up your TRUTH and FACTS with real facts, not delusional political driven nonsense.
By Fred s (106), Southampton on May 21, 18 7:32 PM
In 2018, we now have more deaths from our schools than we do from the war zones in Iraq and Afghanistan. Vote in November, you have the choice for gun control. Think of that every time you send your children to school. L'ill donnie Johnny doesn't have the guts to stand up to his benefactors. You can take it to the bank, the child-liar-in-chief will always be a gutless lowlife. Everything he touches turns to crap. Dead teenagers all across the nation and he has absolutely no plan of action.
By Mets fan (1125), Southampton on May 21, 18 8:12 PM
Metsfan, you don't have a plan either. Remember your thoughts on a shotgun and a revolver smart guy.
By dnice (2325), Hampton Bays on May 21, 18 8:35 PM
1 member liked this comment
Eric Holder:
1. Illegally ran guns into Mexico resulting in hundreds of deaths.
2. Got caught and proceeded to lie to Congress about it.
3. Was found to be in contempt of Congress because of his lies.
4. Was never prosecuted or punished in any way for his obviously illegal actions and perjury.
5. Looked the other way when Obama declared "executive privilege" to hide his own complicity.

These are outright crimes against the people of America and they must be punished ...more
By Ditch Bum (466), Water Mill on May 21, 18 9:19 PM
Oh, that...yeah, that was pretty bad.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2745), HAMPTON BAYS on May 21, 18 10:53 PM
Farrell Building, Farrell Commercial, We're Hiring