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Dec 17, 2014 9:58 AMPublication: The Southampton Press

Tuckahoe School Files Suit Against Town For Denying FOIL Request For Golf Course Revenues

Dec 17, 2014 11:21 AM

The Tuckahoe School District has launched legal proceedings against Southampton Town, saying that several Freedom of Information Law requests were unjustifiably denied by town officials.

On Friday morning, Tuckahoe officials filed paperwork as a precursor to an Article 78 lawsuit against the municipality, claiming the school district has been requesting information about how golf courses within the Tuckahoe School District are taxed over the past two years, but has been denied financial documents it has the right to view.

Over the past three years, Tuckahoe officials have said the loss of an estimated $6 million in revenue can be attributed to legal decisions at a national level that changed the way golf courses are assessed for tax purposes. Originally, the courses were evaluated based on property value, the same way a residential property is assessed, but recent decisions have changed the process to make the golf courses’ taxes based on business income instead.

The Tuckahoe School District does have basic information about how the final income numbers for the four golf courses that lie within its boundaries—Sebonack Golf Club, National Golf Links of America, the Southampton Golf Club and the Shinnecock Hills Golf Club—are determined by the town. However, Tuckahoe officials are seeking specific numbers to cross-check the town’s findings, and to date those requests have been denied.

“We want to look at the fairness to our district residents in reference to the assessed real estate taxes,” Tuckahoe Superintendent Chris Dyer said. “We have not received all of the documents that we believe allow us to do our due diligence, so now it is up to the courts to look at our request and determine whether the assessor’s office is correct.”

After being served with notice of an Article 78 lawsuit, defendants have a short period of time to respond before the suit can move forward.

The four golf courses cover a collective 951 acres, or about 12.7 percent of all the land within the school district’s boundaries, yet they pay less than 5 percent of the district’s total tax levy. In general, the golf courses pay about one-third the taxes they would pay if they were assessed based on property value.

In the past, Lisa Goree, the Southampton Town tax assessor, has confirmed that golf courses, like all commercial businesses, are assessed based on their commercial activities—restaurant and pro shop sales, for example—but not on membership dues, which she said would already be reflected in restaurant and pro shop sales, or for the overall value of the land on which they are located. She added that although the golf courses account for a sizable portion of the property in Tuckahoe, past court cases have determined that they should be assessed as commercial businesses.

According to Mr. Dyer, the district has attempted to view documents outlining the assessment process for the golf courses applied by the Assessors Office, and the golf course income statements that would show how much revenue the golf courses make. However, the town has denied the requests, saying the documents contain confidential trade information for the businesses, and that the district only has access to court documents submitted for tax evaluation.

Now a state judge will review the case to determine if the district has the right to view the documents, or if the financial figures should remain confidential for the private businesses. Mr. Dyer said that the district is not seeking money from the town in the lawsuit, only to have proper taxing practices in place for the golf courses to ensure future revenue.

On Tuesday afternoon, Southampton Town Attorney Tiffany Scarlato said the town has not yet been served the suit, and declined to comment since she had not yet read it.

Attorney Stanley E. Orzechowski, who is representing the school district in the suit, did not return calls seeking comment.

“We have not received all of the documents that we believe would allow us to feel able to perform due diligence to tax fairness examination,” Mr. Dyer said. “We hope to gain the tax assessment information and then we can report back to the community.”

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More wasted money to pay a law firm for nonsense. I say tear out the golf courses build more housing, and have even more kids in school. This school is run by morons. Why doesn't someone investigate the 90k spent for a rental house improvements for the superintendent or his 30k pay raise this month. Craziness at your expense.
By chief1 (2703), southampton on Dec 17, 14 11:48 AM
"More wasted money to pay a law firm for nonsense". You care to elaborate on that big shot? You want to investigate a measly $30k raise or $90k errantly spent years ago but to you it doesn't seems like a good investment to spend a few thousand in an effort to recoup $2,000,000 per year!? This is one of the few things the board has done right and of course, you were the first one to comment on the ''craziness at your expense''. You're entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 17, 14 12:33 PM
90K spent on rental house improvements? What are you talking about?
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 17, 14 10:44 PM
The Town should give Tuck cash in lieu of taxes from the CPF just like they give Flanders and Riverside. 961 acres not being taxed is paramount to the Pine Barrens not being taxed and the loss of property taxes from all the properties purchased by the CPF.
By auntof9 (143), Southampton on Dec 17, 14 11:57 AM
2 members liked this comment
It's actually being taxed, just in a different way. The golf courses which make up most of the most prime real estate and 13% of the district pay on the average about $795/acre in taxes. The Tuckahoe homeowner is paying roughly $2300/acre. These clubs in Tuckahoe are comprised of the most elite in the sport and some of the most expensive in the nation to join. The issue here is that these clubs cannot be compelled, to date, to expose what they make. The bankers, tax attorneys and titans of ...more
Dec 17, 14 1:42 PM appended by Holly 64.5
The current system stems from a State Supreme Court decision in a lawsuit in Nassau County, which concluded that golf courses should be assessed on the income method, rather than on their highest and best economic use—namely, a residential use of the land. In other words, if the board of a golf club can keep their income at almost zero or operate at a loss they get to pay very little taxes and avoid scrutiny. People should be applauding the board for this bold move.
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 17, 14 1:42 PM
2 members liked this comment
This should be investigated!!!! It's BS!
By sandydog21 (195), Southampton on Dec 17, 14 1:22 PM
1 member liked this comment
How can you deny this isn't worth pursuing?
By Infoseeker (272), Hampton Bays on Dec 17, 14 5:16 PM
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May 31, 2006 (Bloomberg) -- The newest golf course in the Hamptons may already be No. 1 in at least one category: price.

Sebonack Golf Club, which opened for limited play last weekend in Southampton, New York, costs what might be a world-highest $650,000 for a membership that ensures accommodations at one of 15 four-bedroom ``cottages'' being built around the course. It's $500,000 just for golf.

This is just one of the golf courses in Tuckahoe. I am at a loss as to why they get ...more
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 17, 14 10:42 PM
The same people that are cooking the books at the clubs in order to pay the least amount of local taxes are the same people running a non profit Association in Southampton that is only allowed to keep it's tax favored status because it doesn't engage in lobbying in civic matters. Imagine that.
Dec 18, 14 5:38 AM appended by Holly 64.5
Lamm, the courses get the tax deduction because the politicians who appoint the judge get their cash from the members of the club.
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 18, 14 5:38 AM
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Did you know there is a motel in your district that has about 45 kids costing the district approx 1.8 million. The motel pays less than 25k in taxes! Where are the lawyers, and Dr Dyer? Why aren't they videotaping the line of kids waiting for the bus, and the cars dropping off kids from God knows where? The golf courses employ hundred's of people, support local causes, and have zero kids going to the school. One of the reasons the golf courses get a tax break is so they don't turn into housing developments ...more
By chief1 (2703), southampton on Dec 18, 14 12:08 AM
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This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 18, 14 5:35 AM
Chief, you sound like a newbie to me. You must be new to the area if you do not recognize any of the kids going into the school. And you sure sound like you believe you have every right to accuse citizens who just want the straight information without someone with another ax to grind.
By summertime (589), summerfield fl on Dec 19, 14 12:50 PM
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Bravo Holly. You hit the nail on the head. Couldn't have said it better myself.
By Infoseeker (272), Hampton Bays on Dec 18, 14 7:18 AM
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Chief only wants HIS district to get the benefit of high property values. "Dr. Dyer" as Chief now calls him, is not living in subsidized housing. Stop lying already. We investigate the hotels regularly. Whatever someone does with their property is their business, but the golf courses make a FORTUNE and should be paying taxes just like you and I. Note that Tuckahoe is not trying to get their taxes increased (at this time)/but only trying to verify the accuracy of what they are paying, the ...more
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 18, 14 8:22 AM
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Whatever someone does with their property is their business? Lol You are truly out of your mind. We have zoning, and whoever investigated didn't do a good job. I am often on my way to work, and see with my own eyes the dozens of kids being picked up from illegal motels. If the school truly stopped this that would mean layoffs so they will ignore it.These are motel rooms not apartments. Why do I never hear of cost cuts at Tuckahoe? Why is it raises, and schemes for more dollars?
Dec 18, 14 8:44 AM appended by chief1
So what the membership cost 600k to join Sebonac. That money is long gone for the purchase, and construction of the course. These courses have dues that go to maintaining the club, and the profit if any is very small. They intentionally made this tax structure so golf courses can stay in business, and not turn into housing, which causes stress on school districts, and municipal services. Superintendent Dyer might be ignorant to this law, and seems like their lawyer is ignoring case law, and proceeding with a no win at taxpayers expense. So let's sum this up. Attorneys at $350/hr, to investigate a law that has been lost on appeal in Nassau County. A 30k raise for the superintendent this month. A taxpayer funded 90k renovation for the superintendents rented residence. Wasting tons of money, and energy on an unwanted merger with Southampton. The wasted time, money, and energy never ends at Tuckahoe, and they want others to fund it. By the way Lamm please name all these alleged tax cutting moves Tuckahoe has recently made.
By chief1 (2703), southampton on Dec 18, 14 8:44 AM
Wow. Just wow. First, some of my best work was removed and now this post. My motherly instinct is taking over. I can't watch anymore. Son, nobody is coming after your money, you will be ok in your retirement and everything is going to work out for you. A school district can't hurt anyone and you have nothing to fear. Your taxes are going to go up this year, but not because of anything having to do with the land between Hampton Bays and Southampton commonly referred to as Tuckahoe. It's really ...more
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 19, 14 7:03 AM
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Chief, I've named the tax cuts plenty of times, you refuse to hear it. You really think golf courses are not profitable? You can't fix stupid.
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 19, 14 9:22 AM
They aren't profitable lamm. That is factual. Calling chielf1 stupid doesn't really add to your credibility.
By dnice (2345), Hampton Bays on Dec 19, 14 3:03 PM
It really doesn't matter if they are profitable or not. They are taxed on their income. Not profit. I would be fine with the golf clubs being their own assessors free from scrutiny if the homeowners and businesses of Tuckahoe are provided with the same luxury.
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 19, 14 4:27 PM
Ok, so because Tuckahoe has mismanaged their budget, the golf courses, which have been around a long time( save Sebonac) are suddenly the reason why it is fiscally unsound. Nonsense. It doesn't matter how much money you have coming in if you can't compose and follow a budget.
By dnice (2345), Hampton Bays on Dec 19, 14 9:27 PM
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Can you support your contention that Tuckahoe has mismanaged their budget?
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 19, 14 10:46 PM
You never "hear" of cost cuts because you don't listen. There have been so many. Everyone pays taxes out here the same way. Fed and state taxes based upon income and property taxes based upon property value. The hotels are a separate issue. One has nothing to do with the other and yes, they both need to be addressed by the town. I'm confused as to why you have an issue with golf courses having to prove their income if they want their tax bill to be based upon it? Can you answer that?
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 18, 14 11:01 AM
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Is it not true that Tuckahoe District purchased a residential property to house their Superintendant (gratis) & then proceeded to spend a large sum to renovate it to acceptable conditions? That is quite a generous bonus, no matter how you explain it.
By East End 2 (144), Southampton on Dec 18, 14 12:53 PM
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No, it is not true. Tuckahoe purchased the house and property because it adjoins the current Tuckahoe property (not unusual and not the first time). There was talk at one point of renovating the home on the property and possibly the superintendent living there as part of a contract incentive, but that never actually happened. The house is still not renovated.
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 18, 14 10:12 PM
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Are you serious? You asked a question that indicated that you were spectacularly misinformed and continue to come to a judgmental conclusion as if it's true. The right to purchase the house was in the homeowner's will. The BOE at the time put it up for a vote and the district voted to purchase the house. The premise was that there is all land bordering the school was private and this might be the only opportunity to expand the school grounds for eons. You can be against a school, it's district, ...more
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 19, 14 6:48 AM
it is just AMAZING how people are just misinformed or simply make things up! Renovated a house to acceptable condition for superintendents? No cuts at Tuckahoe? Schools having control over illegal housing? Where is this stuff coming from? I guess it is no wonder when you have a Southampton school board member writing an article stating that the majority of Southampton approved a 13% tax increase by voting yes for the merger.....HUH?...what kind of math is this?? So now $330 over 10 years comes ...more
By rl (11), southampton on Dec 19, 14 6:36 AM
their facts straight....sorry fro typo
By rl (11), southampton on Dec 19, 14 6:37 AM
Regarding that article, rl is right, the increase in the Tuckahoe School budget was under the tax cap! That was sooo misleading! EVEN if her numbers were accurate (which they are not), 13% of Southampton taxes is less than 9.5% of Tuckahoe's.
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 19, 14 9:18 AM
We've got some candidates for a Darwin award, starting with Chief who thinks these wealthy golf courses don't make money. LOLOL.
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 19, 14 9:23 AM
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lamm, they don't make money. Do some research.
By dnice (2345), Hampton Bays on Dec 22, 14 4:03 PM
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Perfect, even more the reason to examine how organizations that make no money were allowed to change their tax assessment from the value of their property to the amount of money they make. Your clarifications have made this issue even more suspect and thus in need of further scrutiny. I support the Tuckahoe Board of Education in this move to force disclosure under the freedom of information act. Do you support that move or not, that it what the article is about.
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 23, 14 5:45 AM
I think full disclosure is always a good thing.
By dnice (2345), Hampton Bays on Dec 23, 14 4:46 PM
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You should check some of your earlier posts where you say Tuckahoe pays 38k a student to Southampton. That's nonsense they pay just over 20k a student. You continually mislead people into your bad ideas. I checked your past posts, and have yet to find any cuts you right about.
If you are saying it's about kids, and community, and not money than merge the schools, and the taxes will stay the same. Like it? No you don't, because your full of it.
Better question........; Why did you move ...more
By chief1 (2703), southampton on Dec 19, 14 10:07 AM
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You are delusional. Check again, perhaps it's reading and not hearing that's your issue. As I've always said, Southampton and Westhampton have similar tuition rates, EXCEPT where it comes to special ed, Southampton charged us $40,000 MORE per student if that student receives any type of services at all. Not merging was not my choice, now that many of you decided that "community" was not important enough, we NEED a new direction. I am not complaining about my taxes, you haven't heard that from ...more
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 19, 14 1:28 PM
A private golf club is not in the business of making a profit if it is owned by its members. It very simply budgets its expenses minus revenue to access the annual dues which is to be paid by its members. If profit was the goal it is only the members themselves who foot the bill. Taxes are paid on the improvements to the property, jobs are created within a community, products are purchased from local businesses to run the club, as well as hosting local school golf teams. If the courses don't exist, ...more
By 11953guest (43), southampton on Dec 19, 14 12:06 PM
I'm not sure where to start with your post but here it goes. Private golf clubs are in the business of making a profit, however, profit and income are two different things. The tax is levied on the income, not on improvements to the property. A non-material amount of low skill cheap labor is employed. If there were homes on the property the amount of good purchased to run the homes would far outweigh the small amount of last minute resources that are picked up locally as opposed to bulk delivery. ...more
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 19, 14 1:06 PM
So basically you're saying that Michael Pascucci bought the land and built a world class golf club simply because he wanted a not for profit club? Really?
That's great that they do so many wonderful things, none of which affect me or my family, but so do lots and lots of local businesses. They don't get tax breaks. It's a scam.
Saying that more kids wouldn't be good for the school isn't necessarily true either. If all the golf courses were developed into say 1 acre zoning, like much ...more
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 19, 14 1:36 PM
Shirley Links, Tall Grass, Long Island National, are 3 examples of how difficult it is for golf to be profitable. You do not have the ability to understand the entire problem facing the school district if you think these golf courses are going to bail you out.
By 11953guest (43), southampton on Dec 19, 14 3:58 PM
You just mentioned Shirley Links in an article about Southampton. You care to explain the relevance? If you think $2,000,000/year is not going to go a heckuva long way towards bailing the district out you're lacking ability to think straight.
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 19, 14 4:24 PM
His point is that golf courses on the "east end" (loosely defined) are having a hard time with revenue. Just because the people who utilize golf courses are wealthy doesn't mean the golf course owners somehow "owe" the school district anything. Especially since they require virtually no services (and certainly no school services).

It would be charging everyone who has a $5,000,000+ home more in school taxes because they can probably afford it.
By Nature (2966), Southampton on Dec 19, 14 4:26 PM
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Fine. We will add you to the list that think it's ok for wealthy land owners to assess themselves free from scrutiny while the homeowners and businesses are forced to be taxed in a totally different manner, resulting in a higher level of taxation under the constant threat of persecution.
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 19, 14 4:30 PM
A golf course has no rateables! There's nothing there aside from a clubhouse. Should we charge the driving range owner more taxes too?
By Nature (2966), Southampton on Dec 20, 14 10:41 AM
The driving range already is being taxed at a higher per acre rate. If he doesn't pay his taxes correctly, he's looking at fines, penalties and potentially jail time. The golf club pays less, assesses itself and is free from scrutiny. Regardless of anything that you want to say or toss out there to muddy up the waters, this is the fact. All the other fluff is just that fluff. The school should be commended for demanding performance under the freedom of information act. Someday it might be ...more
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 20, 14 1:36 PM
Fine Holly, we will add you to the list of those that have an axe to grind.
By dnice (2345), Hampton Bays on Dec 20, 14 2:00 PM
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In a perfect world we would all be allowed to self assess our properties and pay reduced taxes without anyone being able to call us on it. The Board of Education works for the taxpayers in that district. Keeping the golf courses honest, so to speak, is the responsible thing to do on behalf of their constituents. If the golf clubs are on the up-and-up - then nobody should be so uptight. This will end quickly if the court deems it without merit. Your concern for your pal chef is admirable but ...more
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 21, 14 7:41 AM
Holly, first of all, he is not my pal. If anyone has posted misinformation it is you. Golf clubs do not make a profit. They spend everything they bring in and sometimes have to charge the membership even more in the form of assessments to break even for the year. I understand that you don't like golf courses and their perceived tax breaks but it is difficult to argue the merits when you cannot, or will not, grasp a basic understanding of how golf courses operate.
By dnice (2345), Hampton Bays on Dec 22, 14 10:49 AM
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To 11953, you're comparing world class golf courses in Tuckahoe that host national televised events, charge $500,000 membership fees and have waiting lists to Shirley Links? Really? To Nature, everyone who has a $5 mil home DOES pay more in school taxes, whether or not they can afford it, so I'm not sure what your last sentence means.
My taxes went up this year, my income went down. I live check to check, as do many families out here. We get no tax breaks from the town, my property is still ...more
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 19, 14 7:12 PM
They pay the same amount proportionally.

It appears that the argument with respect to the golf courses is they should pay more than their fair share (proportionally) than others because they "host national televised events, charge $500,000 membership fees and have waiting lists". It doesn't matter than a place like Shirley Links was for local yokels to play a quick 9. Point is they pay based on the land and rateables, not based on the list of their members.
By Nature (2966), Southampton on Dec 22, 14 9:26 AM
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Everyone should also keep in mind that this isn't just a school district issue, they pay police, fire, ambulance, library, etc at a lower property tax rate than all of us in Southampton Town.
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 19, 14 8:36 PM
Golf courses have no profits they have fees based on keeping the course maintained. I'm glad the board is spending money on attorneys on a law that was upheld by the appellate court.
Lamm if you have two kids at Tuckahoe it costs taxpayer's 80k a year. I'm sure you pay 8k or less for school taxes. How is that fair to people like me who spent for a private school? You either want Southampton or golf course's to pay your child's education bill's. Maybe you should of done your homework before ...more
By chief1 (2703), southampton on Dec 20, 14 12:13 AM
I checked several of your past posts and you have suggested that Tuckahoe families moved to Tuckahoe by choice and should deal with the costs associated with living there. How you reconcile that with the fact that you chose to send your kids to public school knowing that you were going to have to pay for that and for property taxes, the majority of which go to the public school?! Your revelation tells every reader of this article all they need to know about you. You resent having to pay property ...more
Dec 21, 14 12:59 PM appended by Holly 64.5
let's try that one again: "How do you reconcile that with the fact that you chose to send your kids to private school..."
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 21, 14 12:59 PM
Chief, the article doesn't say they are trying to change the law. They are trying to determine that the law is being followed correctly, but the town isn't providing the documents. Read the article.
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 20, 14 8:47 AM
Tuckahoe has cut staff by a whopping 20%. They've cut clubs to almost none. They've cut their outdoor ed program and field trips. There are few classes with teaching assistants in them, even in the younger grades, unless there is a special ed need. They cut tuition with an exclusivity deal. Now you are complaining that they're trying to make sure that almost 15% of the land in the district is taxed correctly, according to law?
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 20, 14 9:09 AM
What a shame not all the classes have teachers assistants now the teacher's have to work instead of sitting in the back of the room. Less field trips to the park? The enrollment is actually down in Tuckahoe so that was part of the cuts. They still don't need a superintendent, when they have a very capable principal.They certainly don't need a business manager.
The town assessor is ok with the financials of the golf course. Why would a golf course agree to have their financials released to ...more
By chief1 (2703), southampton on Dec 20, 14 10:22 AM
Spare us. The question is not why do you have to pay for anyone else's kids to go to school. You don't like federal immigration law nor are you happy about the system of municipal taxation in this country. You want to pay every teacher the same and you would no sooner appoint yourself all knowing supreme leader of the land. Sounds like you need to move to Russia. There has never been this much whining about a singular topic on this website in as long as I can remember. It's pretty amazing, ...more
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 20, 14 1:42 PM
Holly, are you suggesting that he tax assessor is complicit or dishonest?
By dnice (2345), Hampton Bays on Dec 20, 14 10:45 PM
No. My reference to the tax assessor is in direct response to the chef's comment above. But, you do raise a very good point. Your reference touches upon the concept of ''conflict of interest''. Have you ever before heard of a court case where a group was given the luxury of self-assessment without the responsibility of proving their numbers? It should be perplexing to most that in tandem to that right the methodology of their assessment and associated tax levy resulted in a huge reduction of ...more
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 21, 14 7:23 AM
Holly - I am not looking to get involved in this debate. I believe that you are referring to me in the post two above this one so I would only like to clarify. The Town Assessor is not a golfer, and I am actually the Tax Receiver. I am not involved with determining assessed values of the golf courses, thus no conflict of interest exists.
By Theresa Kiernan (23), Southampton on Dec 22, 14 3:21 PM
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Hear, Hear.
By dnice (2345), Hampton Bays on Dec 22, 14 3:44 PM
Honestly, this is all fluff and has no bearing on the article or its subject but thank you for that clarification. If Mother Theresa herself was the Tax Assessor I would support the Tuckahoe BOE looking into a decision that allows entities who apparently make no money be taxed on how much money they make. Have you ever in your life heard of such a luxury being granted to a such a narrow sector of the population? I'm not a conspiracy theorist but any thinking person would want to know how the ...more
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 23, 14 5:52 AM
If my property got taxed at $700+ per acre I would be more than happy to provide my tax returns. They fought to get charged based upon those returns, they asked for special treatment, then they need to provide the proof. If they were not making a profit this would be a non issue, right? And since we all know that our town government never makes mistakes (as they did on my assessment), let's never ask questions, because they are always right. You don't pay for my children to go to school, you ...more
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 20, 14 11:24 AM
Lamm's assessment and tax levy is public and can be found on the Southampton Town tax roll section of the website. Every residential and commercial address in both Southampton and Tuckahoe school districts are available online. Only the golf clubs' are not. This even goes for the chef who is no doubt busy cooking up his next plate of boloney. Nobody is looking for anyone's tax return.
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 20, 14 1:46 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 20, 14 10:22 PM
Holly, you are so right about the Complainer in Chief's paranoid mantras, it gave me a chuckle too. Let's see what other ill informed nonsense he will post next.
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 20, 14 10:30 PM
He is upset that he has to pay property taxes while sending his children to a private school. He willingly bought a home in Southampton knowing full well what the property taxes were and what the public schools were like and now he is all mad that he has to pay property taxes. Either way, I think we will have to wait until after midnight. He has made his 2 comments today and appears to set his alarm to get the next comment up as soon as possible after the clock strikes 12 midnight. He has some ...more
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 21, 14 1:09 PM
That's right I bought a house in the Southampton District Miss Teacher union disciple. I bought here, because taxes are low, and it is close to work. I'm not paying taxes willingly to Southampton it is forced on me. Southampton School is fine, but I don't like the politics, and political correctness they teach in public school. Kids in 5th grade don't need to know two men, or two woman can have a baby. They don't need to be told about school mergers, or be allowed to have a sit out of school, because ...more
By chief1 (2703), southampton on Dec 21, 14 6:29 PM
Homophobic, check. Anti first amendment, check. And your list goes on. You bought a house because the taxes were low and proceeded to increase them by sending your kids to private school. The school is fine but your kids could potentially learn about gay people. You leave it up to your children's school to instill the important principles of work ethic and discipline. If it weren't for the fact that our communication was on the internet, I would swear I was communicating with a plantation owner ...more
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 21, 14 7:01 PM
Formulaic name calling, check.

Exaggerations so extreme they are indicative of mental illness, check. (Plantation owner, really?)

Sense of self righteousness so strong unassailable no matter what the facts are, check.

Besides, as a "progressive liberal" you should be in a great mood tonight. The Ferguson protesters finally got what that wanted according to their chants, "What do we want, Dead Cops!".

By MoronEliminator (187), Montauk on Dec 21, 14 7:23 PM
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Probably the smartest thing you could have done was to appoint yourself moron eliminator. Will help keep you around longer.
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 21, 14 7:43 PM
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The Tuckahoe residents CHOOSE TO LIVE IN THE DISTRICT!!!! Tuckahoe school taxes have been higher than Southampton for a very long time and those who purchased homes there are well aware of that fact. Personal responsibility boys and girls , personal responsibility.
By bigfresh (4317), north sea on Dec 21, 14 9:24 AM
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It is ironic that someone who has named themselves bigfresh is still parroting such a stale message, complete with caps and exclamation points. Do you have the courage to explain how your concept is even relevant? Are you under the paranoid impression that residents of Tuckahoe have suddenly woken up to realize where they live and have been surprised by their tax rate? It sure sounds that way, and on top if it, you sound afraid that Tuckahoe families are looking to steal your money? This, under ...more
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 21, 14 12:08 PM
He won't answer.

He never backs up any assertions, just hit and run generalization.
By Mr. Z (11290), North Sea on Dec 21, 14 3:02 PM
Watch out big fresh these girls will kill anyone that doesn't agree with them. Lol
The truth ladies is if you knew how an equity golf course worked you wouldn't be making ignorant statements. The members own the club, and have to contribute money to maintain the club each year. If you contribute money to something you own it's not income it is a capital contribution. No club in Southampton is profitable they only collect investments from owners, and enough fees to survive. Basically a profitless ...more
By chief1 (2703), southampton on Dec 21, 14 1:17 PM
Male chauvinism, check. Reference to progressive liberals, check. union reference, check. reference to insolvent financial system, check. Ridiculous pensions, check. Hyperbolic lecturing, check. Nonsensical yet dramatic conclusion, check. I think we are really starting to get to the bottom of what is eating you chef.
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 21, 14 2:30 PM
2 members liked this comment
Liking your own post. pathetic.
By MoronEliminator (187), Montauk on Dec 21, 14 7:24 PM
Completely agree. If you see anyone doing that, please let me know.
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 21, 14 7:48 PM
A couple of points and questions:
If what you say is correct, that they make no profit, proving this should be a non issue. But if, as you say, Sebonac is just a "club" for the richest of the rich in New York, do you think it's fair that I, as a struggling taxpayer, should be required to pay more so they can pay less for their waterfront golf course? I do understand that the law says I have to, this is a theoretical question only. My feeling is that if they want their waterfront "club" with ...more
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 21, 14 10:20 PM
Homes would benefit the Tuckahoe community more than golf courses. If we took Sebonacs 250 acres alone and put some waterfront mansions, plus many one or two acre zoned homes, the taxes alone would save the district. Our school would have a few more kids, but we would probably benefit from that as well. Remember that the golf courses take up much of Tuckahoe's beautiful water-front property that would otherwise be very highly taxed. We wouldn't be in the position we are in. Instead we have ...more
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 21, 14 11:05 PM
Ever heard "The Devil's Been Busy", by the Traveling Wilburys?
By Mr. Z (11290), North Sea on Dec 21, 14 11:49 PM
1 member liked this comment
While you're strolling down the fairway
Showing no remorse
Glowing from the poisons
They've sprayed on your golf course
While you're busy sinking birdies
And keeping your scorecard
The devil's been busy in your back yard

Steaming down the highway
With your trucks of toxic waste
Where you gonna hide it
In the outer space?
You don't know what you're doing
Or what you have to guard
The devil's been busy in your back yard

Sometimes you ...more
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 22, 14 6:38 AM
Appropriate song...everyone thinks these golf courses are a gift, but 4 in one small neighborhood will make us toxic! Sebonac is supposed to be less so, but even too much of the organic type isn't necessarily a good thing.
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 22, 14 12:00 AM
I'm still reeling from the fact that chef chose OLH to better protect them from hearing about homosexuality. ie " Southampton School is fine, but I don't like the politics, and political correctness they teach in public school. Kids in 5th grade don't need to know two men, or two woman can have a baby"
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 22, 14 6:41 AM
Chief would prefer that kids learned about homosexuality from their friends and the internet. But back to the golf course question, I would love to hear his answers to the club status questions I asked above.
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 22, 14 7:44 AM
First off I really don't care if someone is heterosexual or homosexual it's none of my business. The fact that some teacher thinks they are going to teach sexuality to any child under 12 is truly insane, and perverse. No they aren't going to learn on the internet, because they are monitored to use the internet for school. They don't need facebook or the other crap the parents think is okay. The reason private school's are better is because parents take that extra interest.
Holly64.5 or molly ...more
By chief1 (2703), southampton on Dec 22, 14 9:17 AM
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The golf courses are paying hundreds of thousands of $ to help educate your children but that's not enough for the $ hungry in Tuckahoe. What are these clubs getting in return on their investment? Anything at all? So Tuckahoe SD wants to play IRS, good luck with that.
By April1 (154), Southampton on Dec 22, 14 9:53 AM
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Did you ever think you would have to take such a tortured route as to support the IRS in order to take a dig at the board of a school that is not even in your own district? Taxes hurt investments, they are not investments themselves? On another topic, it seems fitting that April1 is the name you have given yourself. It's almost like the holiday on April 1 was made just for you!
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 22, 14 12:28 PM
Chief, you didn't answer my questions, no surprise. Maybe you should have moved to Tuckahoe because my kids didn't learn about homosexuality there either. April, one oceanfront mansion pays close to the same taxes as one of those golf courses. Perhaps they should have a lower assessment since their kids don't use the schools. Both of you just love to hate Tuckahoe. How would you feel if you were subsidizing the beach clubs in Southampton? There is no reason either of you should speak out against ...more
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 22, 14 11:15 AM
Perhaps Tuckahoe was spending like drunken sailors, and the chickens have come home to roost. Lamm you decided to be a parent, and decided to move to Tuckahoe. When you have children you make sure you can give them the best! Don't expect anyone to pay your tab.
The Southampton Clubs do get a reduction in taxes. They create jobs, and send no kids to school why wouldn't they get lower taxes?
If you don't like the tax structure in Tuckahoe move it's a free country. How dare you say I'm ...more
Dec 22, 14 12:36 PM appended by chief1
That's great Molly or Holly, but I was under the impression that cost's would be cut drastically, and never thought it would be Southampton picking up the tab. The original merger idea's were everyone would have their taxes cut, but that is not the case. Nice try...... I'm glad your off from school for two weeks, and using the time wisely. LOL
By chief1 (2703), southampton on Dec 22, 14 12:36 PM
It's time to consolidate schools as soon as possible. We don't need to spend hundreds of thousands to figure out Tuckahoe needs to be merged with Southampton. We can get rid of a couple greedy administrators and duplicate expenses at Tuckahoe that will save millions. The education situation will become even worse in the future. The federal govt will be giving less to states, and the state will have less money to fund with. This country needs to take it Obama medicine of cuts, and education is one ...more
Dec 22, 14 1:09 PM appended by Holly 64.5
sound familiar chef? you posted that just 2 years ago. there are many others where you called for a school merger. taxes got in your way?
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 22, 14 1:09 PM
1 member liked this comment
Whoa. What? You actually thought that Southampton District would take over a new school, add 300+ more children, dozens more teachers and the costs associated with their programs and that costs would go down with those additions? See, this is what happens when you just spout things without thinking them through. You were as big a proponent FOR a merger as you now are AGAINST a merger. I believe the word is feeble.


And I am no teacher, but if I were, I would proudly admit to such ...more
Dec 22, 14 3:58 PM appended by Holly 64.5
See you a little after midnight when you have 2 new comments at your disposal. Use them wisely!
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 22, 14 3:58 PM
"When will we learn nothing is for free" Love it.
It was really common sense to him back then, I guess the $300 put him over the edge.
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 22, 14 9:40 PM
OMG Holly, that's hysterical. I just clicked on Chief's comments and you're right, two per day! I guess we should consider ourselves lucky that he won't pay for a subscription.
Chief, I had the distinct feeling that you absolutely hated Tuckahoe, and your reasons for doing so were based on lies and mis-information. Now, after looking at some of your comments (to see if Holly was right), I realize it's not just Tuckahoe...you hate just about everything. I'm sorry you have to live like that, ...more
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 22, 14 9:34 PM
I am sure its not about the money chief most likely considers his privacy to be an important thing , to many people in local government that could make your life difficult
Dec 22, 14 10:29 PM appended by Undocumented Democrat
hens will cackle I suppose
By Undocumented Democrat (1929), southampton on Dec 22, 14 10:29 PM
I recall the moniker "Mouthampton" from my younger days...
By Mr. Z (11290), North Sea on Dec 23, 14 5:07 PM
So lets see I want to see my kids work harder so I own a plantation? I don't want sexuality taught to kids that are in lower grades, and I'm a homophobic? I hate everything, because I don't want my taxes to go up? Wow Molly or Holly you're quite a nut.
I was also called feeble minded, because I said a merger would be good. That's right I think a merger is good, but not the stupid terms that our elected board thought were good for Southampton taxpayers. We don't need a merger Tuckahoe needs ...more
By chief1 (2703), southampton on Dec 23, 14 11:44 AM
Chief, why don't we stand back and that this time at the end of the year to reflect on why people might hold a particular opinion of you that is less than what you may think of yourself. Shall we?

"The 130k a year patrolman couldn't stop the fight? What about the 250k a year chief? He didn't learn crowd control at one of those village paid for FBI camps? Abolish the village dept get the state police here who are better trained, and more experienced in this type of situation"

Guest ...more
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 23, 14 1:22 PM
The bully is back! You are a typical school employee Holly. If you don't like someone's point ,you bully them. Don't they teach cyber bullying is wrong in your school?
If you notice all my posts are about people taking responsibility, and paying their fair share. I thought we were all equal? Hispanics, Black's, whites, Asian's should all pay their share. I'm tired of school's wanting more, and giving less. You, and your friend Lamm are delusional to the real world, and maybe if you didn't ...more
By chief1 (2703), southampton on Dec 23, 14 1:45 PM
1 member liked this comment
Gee, how disappointing. I didn't whine when you called me an idiot, in fact I ''liked' your comment. It was funny. One lil old lady like me runs interference after you've been hog wild all over this issue for 12+ months and this is how you waste your second and last post until after midnight tonight? Looks like when the going gets tough you and April jump into each other's arms. I'm sorry you feel so bullied. If you ever feel like you are going to take your anger about "schools wanting more ...more
Dec 23, 14 4:40 PM appended by Holly 64.5
It just dawned on me that all I did was post a series of your own words and you felt bullied by that. I held a mirror up to you and you were offended? Reflect on that. It's extraordinary.
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 23, 14 4:40 PM
1 member liked this comment
Oh now I'm angry about school taxes? I'm fine with my school taxes, unfortunately for you you're complaining about yours. I don't like the fact that you, and Lamm think that it's okay to manipulate golf course's, and school board's to try to have your taxes lowered at everyone else's expense.
Now you are calling me a racist? I hate Hispanics? Quite the opposite...... I think they should legalize illegal immigrants so they can contribute to society. When they legalize everyone they can get ...more
By chief1 (2703), southampton on Dec 24, 14 9:39 AM
"Oh now I'm angry about school taxes? I'm fine with my school taxes". Here are some of your prior comments regarding taxes:


I comment mostly on fiscal issues. We don't need nor can we afford these little schools like E Q and Tuckahoe. Consolidation will save millions to taxpayers. You are only giving a self serving opinion. Taxpayers do not need to pay for the nonsense of bloated school districts. " May 31, 13 7:24 AM

Tuckahoe And Southampton Schools Offer Incentive For ...more
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 24, 14 12:05 PM
Like I said I am fine with my school taxes. Do I think we are getting what we paid for? Heck no. Do I think 38k a student is being well spent? Considering we aren't even in the top twenty in Math, and science that answer is obvious.
How about you Holy? Do you think we should pay teacher's like yourself on merit or the stupid union pay system we have now? Do you feel anyway responsible for the lack of performance? I have someone in my immediate family who is in a school district, and laughs ...more
By chief1 (2703), southampton on Dec 24, 14 12:51 PM
You can't be simultaneously fine with your school taxes and feel as though you are not getting what you are paying for. For the 3rd time, I am not a teacher, have no reason to hide that fact. Getting ''likes'' in an anonymous website is not an authentic endorsement of anything. You haven't supported a single thing you have stated with facts or evidence and you call character assassin for doing nothing more than placing your own wording up there without qualification. I can afford to pay my taxes, ...more
By Holly 64.5 (44), southampton on Dec 24, 14 1:25 PM
Chief, you can't spread lies and mis information and not expect to be called out on it. Exposing your lies is not bullying. Telling lies that ultimately hurt my children is.
By lamm (304), Southampton on Dec 23, 14 11:36 PM
Dear all,
While I have immense respect for the passion in this discussion, nearly everything concluded about the golf clubs is factually flawed. The clubs dont decide or even remotely influence what they pay in taxes. It is based on a methodology under NY State law, and cemented by multiple State court decisions, include appelate courts. The notion that it has anything do do with club profitability, or is manipulable by club boards, is just uninformed and wrong. The Town faithfully assessor ...more
By BNP (7), Southampton on Jan 14, 15 2:11 PM