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Nov 11, 2009 3:38 PMPublication: The East Hampton Press

Health care reform passes House with Bishop's blessing

Nov 11, 2009 3:38 PM

Slowly but surely, the American government is working to revamp the country’s health care system by placing more restrictions on insurance companies, expanding Medicaid, and possibly offering consumers a public health plan. And on Saturday, the U.S. House of Representatives took a big stride forward in passing a 2,000-page health care reform bill by a vote of 220-215.

Now, the U.S. Senate must pass its own version of the bill, and then the two legislative bodies have to battle it out on Capitol Hill and come to a consensus before President Obama signs it into law.

“The Senate is doing its work, but it takes longer to do things there than in the House,” said U.S. Representative Tim Bishop of Southampton, who cast his vote in favor of the reform bill on Saturday. “Hopefully, the Senate will act before Thanksgiving, and we can conference the two versions, and then can have a ... report by Christmas.”
According to published reports, President Obama wants to have the reform bill signed into law by Christmas.

Mr. Bishop said the House bill takes a three-pronged approach to improving health care. First, the legislation aims to make sure that the 85 percent of U.S. citizens who currently have health insurance keep it. Second, the legislation strives to increase the number of people with insurance by 35 million. Third, it seeks to reduce the rate insurance premiums are increasing by.

The plan costs $894 billion, Mr. Bishop said, and the government will pay for it through a new tax on individuals who make more than $500,000 a year, and families that bring in more than $1 million per year—“99.7 percent of people will not have an additional burden,” Mr. Bishop said.

Mr. Bishop also said that the bill limits how much more an insurance company can charge people on the basis of age or illness. The bill also prevents insurance companies from canceling policies for people who become sick.

The recently approved House bill and the still-debated Senate bill have some key differences, according to Mr. Bishop. The Senate bill allows states to opt out of a public option, the government-provided health insurance plan, while the House bill does not. And the bill approved by the House mandates that some employers provide their employees with health insurance, while the bill still being contested in the Senate does not force employers to offer health insurance.

Dr. George Dempsey, who is based on Pantigo Road in East Hampton, said this week that he is strongly in favor of the proposed bill. “It’s going to create a true infrastructure that the country doesn’t have for a rational medical system,” he said.

Dr. Dempsey said that the language in the bill urges that all levels of medicine go through a central place and also emphasizes the concept of a “medical home.” He explained that the “medical home” concept embodies community-based medical care that is well-coordinated, able to manage chronic diseases, eliminates duplicative testing and enhances communications between specialists and the hospital.

Dr. Dempsey also supports the public-option portion of the reform, which is still being debated. “I favor a single-payer system,” he added, saying that the rates the government could reimburse him for medical procedures could be higher than rates from private insurers. “Most primary care ... physicians support a single-payer plan.”

Two Southampton Village residents running errands Monday morning also sounded off on the health care reform bill.

Ellen Greaves said that she hopes that the reform bill will become law. She is originally from Canada and loves the single-payer system in place in her home country.

“I loved it for the convenience of the consumer,” Ms. Greaves said. “You didn’t have to learn about a new health plan every time you switched jobs, and you had a lot of freedom in choosing your doctor.” She added that health care in Canada is often focused on preventative medicine.

A visitor to Southampton from San Marcos, Texas, said she was strongly in favor of the health care reform bill and has seen numerous people die from not having health care insurance. “It’s my opinion that health care should be for everyone,” said the Reverend April Coldsmith. “It’s immoral that poor people do not have health care.”

Rev. Coldsmith explained that she works as a chaplain at a hospice in Texas and saw, for example, a 62-year-old woman die of uterine cancer because cost had prevented her from getting her annual gynecological exams.

“In three more years, she would have been able to get Medicare,” Rev. Coldsmith said, explaining that she sees the health care reform bill as similar to the government providing Medicare for everyone. “I’m for the public option.”

Dr. Gregory Frost, a dentist who has an office on Montauk Highway in Westhampton and is also on the Westhampton Beach School Board, said that he is not in favor of the bill. “Health insurance needs to be fixed, but not in this way,” Dr. Frost said. “I’m not sure how to fix it.”

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I too favor a single payer universal health care plan. I look forward to having all my medical bills, long term care expenses, dental expenses, copays. and deductibles paid for. I am so happy that it will all be free and provided by the GVT. Dempsey is such a dope and Bishop forget about it he is borderline retarded. He will bankrupt his constituents. I can't wait until they make employers provide health care or hit them with a payroll tax. Out to do wonders for the hotel and restaurant industry. ...more
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 10, 09 6:57 PM
1 member liked this comment
Retarded is talking about legislation you haven't read and don't understand as if you do. Retarded is thinking that government health care (if ever it would exist) would be free. Retarded is thinking that this bill actually provides a public option. I could go on but I think - somewhat optimistically perhaps - that you get the point.
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 10, 09 9:17 PM
Your ignorance about the bill is astounding, friend. Go to thomas.gov and get smarter.
By JimmyKBond (152), Hampton Bays on Nov 10, 09 10:46 PM
Razza, be careful, your ignorance is showing.
By yearrounder (208), Southampton on Nov 11, 09 3:55 PM
Bishop should have read this thing before he voted for it. If he did, he should be recalled immediately.

This bill is a colossal piece of crap. It was written by insurance lobbyists and does little for citizens while enhancing and protecting insurance corporation profits.

The "public option" is non-existent, only 6 million will be eligible. The CBO says "public" premiums will be more expensive than private insurance. A provision protecting states that implement a single payer ...more
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 10, 09 9:12 PM
2 members liked this comment
You obviously did not read this legislation available online or you would not write such uninformed, blindly wrong comments
By JimmyKBond (152), Hampton Bays on Nov 10, 09 10:48 PM
Challenge: Please show me the case of an uninsured adult citizen in the First Congressional District who can't afford coverage and would not be served by one of the 25 existing Federal or State programs! This bill will leave us poorer, in more debt, ration our health care, and rob more capital from creating jobs. The single payer system in the UK celebrates hitting the target waiting time for cancer treatment in 85% of cases, which is to start treatment 62 days from diagnosis. While waiting 62 days ...more
By RichardBlumenthal (24), Westhampton Beach on Nov 10, 09 9:23 PM
Mr. Blumenthal, your insistence on misrepresenting the facts shows why your party has become a haven for teabaggers and wingnuts. A vast majority of Canadians would not trade their health care system for ours. A Harris-Decima poll found that 82 percent of Canadians believe their system outdoes America's. Same for the UK. In other words - they would rather wait in line than have to deal with a system like ours that spends 30% more than everyone else and yet ranks below 17th in the world (behind ...more
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Nov 11, 09 4:10 PM
Me. I make too much for assistance. I do get s-chip for my kid, though.

Canadians get faster service because they don't have to wait for insurance company approval - which in the US may never arrive.
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 11, 09 10:49 PM
Dag you truly are insane. You actually believe this piece of crap will reduce the defecit. That kool aid you are drinking must be spiked with wacky juice
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 11, 09 11:03 PM
Noah,
I'm glad we can agree on something. This 2,000 page pile of turd will make Tarp, cap and trade and the stimulus bill look like candyland. We are already using play money why not add more debt to the ever growing pile.
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 10, 09 9:30 PM
Another "head in the sand" well-healed Republican who has corporate health care and would deny others ... the blindly ignorant comments astound
By JimmyKBond (152), Hampton Bays on Nov 10, 09 10:50 PM
Noah, I was being sarcastic about being free. In fact the whole first paragraph is sarcastic. The plan is only free for dead beats like you. Us hard working americans will be footing your bill im sure
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 10, 09 9:33 PM
This is very simple: for those who want to know ... the "haves" with cushy health plans want the "have nots" to continue to suffer and they want the hospital to keep billing (through your tax dollars) the local property taxpayer supporting Peconic, ELI Hospital and Southampton Hospital emergency rooms ...
By JimmyKBond (152), Hampton Bays on Nov 10, 09 10:54 PM
WRONG Jimmy. The haves (85% of population) would love for everyone to have coverage as long as it doesnt put a major dent on our income and doesnt affect our coverage. We would love to see our cost of care reduced. This bill does the exact opposite and will ultimately force everyone onto some crappy public option
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 11, 09 6:25 AM
70+ percent of Americans support public health insurance. They know full well that there is no free ride, that it will be paid for with tax revenue. They also know that they will get 50% more bang for the buck when they don't have 1/3 of their premiums skimmed off for profit and overhead that includes lobbying, advertising and absolutely outrageous compensation to insurance execs.

These people - 70+ percent - would gladly pay TAXES for care that won't be denied, delayed or refused outright, ...more
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 11, 09 6:14 PM
Cant do basic math? Medicare loses billions of taxpayer dollars each year. If Medicare were a private run company they would have been out of business along time ago instead they continue operating at masive losses and to pile on more debt in the never ending Ponzi Scheme which is GVT. This bill is being disguised as health care reform when in reality it will increase premiums and save medicare through more taxes and cuts. You are the idiot. Where did you get the 70% number from moveon.org
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 20, 09 2:00 PM
Jimmy this head in the sand fiscal conservative has a few questions.

1. Do you think Bishop should have voted for this bill knowing that many of his constieunts are dependent upon the tourist trade?
2 Do you think Bishop is aware that many of these business are in distress and they will now be asked to pay higher taxes and mandated to provide coverage for ALL employees or pay a fine.
3. Do you think that by covering all prexisting conditions unconditionally will lead to adverse ...more
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 11, 09 6:55 AM
This is from FRONTLINE on PBS.org:

UNITED KINGDOM
Percentage of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) spent on health care: 8.3
Average family premium: None; funded by taxation.
Co-payments: None for most services; some co-pays for dental care, eyeglasses and 5 percent of prescriptions. Young people and the elderly are exempt from all drug co-pays.
What is it? The British system is "socialized medicine" because the government both provides and pays for health care. Britons pay taxes ...more
By WHBYankee (17), Westhampton Beach on Nov 11, 09 12:34 PM
2 members liked this comment
yankee what does any of that have to do with the 2000 page bill that was proposed or whats in it. Maybe you should move to Japan
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 11, 09 1:03 PM
Razza, Yankees posting is completely relevant to the discussion whereas your suggestion that he move to Japan is clear evidence that you would rather blow hot air than to have an intelligent debate about the facts.

By dagdavid (646), southampton on Nov 11, 09 4:13 PM
In yet another indication of paranoia and borderline personality disorder, razza drags out the old reactionary-approved, fundamentalist-certified "love it or leave it" line.

The only hope for razza is that on the day he needs his insurance he'll find out that all this time he's been paying more for less ... but then he'd probably find a way to blame that on the government. Which if this bill passes he can, because premiums can go up 50% more than medical costs - it is written into the ...more
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 11, 09 6:25 PM
Funny how the lawyers in govt don't include tort reform in the bill.

Mr. Bishop, if you continue to take away from the producers of the world they will eventually have no incentive to keep producing. Then what happens???
By double standard (1506), quogue on Nov 11, 09 7:01 PM
Medical malpractice makes up only 2 percent of U.S. health spending, Iin states where they have passed tort reform legislation it has done little to nothing to reduce costs.

Please explain how Tim Bishop's support of health reform takes away from "the producers"? The largest group of producers in the country are small businesses and it is small businesses that cannot afford to health care costs. A majority of small business owners support reform and the public option. I know that ...more
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Nov 11, 09 7:18 PM
What do you deem a small business? If you have over 10 employees you MUST provide health care or pay a penalty. The GVT bleeds the small business owners to death tax. I love the new MTA tax because all of my employees take the subway to tax. How about the dreaded filing fee. That is a tax so I can pay my taxes
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 11, 09 8:29 PM
This bill will cause premiums to rise so whats your point. Its not TRUE reform
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 20, 09 2:02 PM
Pelosi/Obummer healthcare bill is simply a redistribution of wealth. While the wealthy will feel some pinch it will be the hard working middle income people and elderly who will be devastated. The poor will receive all the subsidies, while those who are raising a family on diminishing wages will mandated to buy insurance without any subsidy and be subject to increased taxes.
It will force business to lay off or hire off the books. We all know who gets hired off the books.
Anybody on ...more
By kpjc (158), east quogue on Nov 11, 09 7:05 PM
2 members liked this comment
The redistribution of wealth is upwards.

The poor get assistance to buy insurance - money that goes straight to private corporations. But at least they get some health care. The middle gets royally screwed. they get little to know assistance and are penalized! if they don't buy private insurance. The fine (2.5% of income) would no doubt go towards paying for some of the poor, but that goes straight to the insurance corporations.

And guess what? No single payer. Just 50 million ...more
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 11, 09 10:58 PM
Bye the way NOAH WAY, in your math i did not see a cost for the massive fraud and abuse in Medicare/Medicaid. I don't think there is a difinitive number but estimates are between 22 and 40 percent. If I can add, it is higher than your made up Number of 30 percent for insurance profits.

And if you think that you will not be denied medical care by the government, please speak to the administrators at some of our local healthcare providers, who accept medicare and medicaid.
By kpjc (158), east quogue on Nov 11, 09 7:20 PM
Got news for you, kpjc, not only is the 30 percent profit number not made up, it may actually be conservative. But don't worry, no one wants to stop you from giving your money to a private insurance company whose CEO makes more in an hour than you do in a year. We should be free to choose a public option just as you are free to continue taking it up the _____.
By yearrounder (208), Southampton on Nov 11, 09 7:30 PM
1 member liked this comment
By the way, the last part of my comment refers not to your sexuality, but to what the insurance companies are doing to you.
By yearrounder (208), Southampton on Nov 11, 09 7:31 PM
Yearrounder I don't care who takes a public option as long as i don't have to pay for it and "if I like my coverage I can keep it" but we both know neither one of can be true
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 11, 09 8:35 PM
I"d rather see insurance premiums paid to executive's than to criminals beating the system. You hit it on the head yearrounder- you should be free to choose not mandated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By kpjc (158), east quogue on Nov 11, 09 7:36 PM
Insurance executives ARE the criminals beating the system. They are beating it to death.
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 13, 09 2:53 PM
OK Again any of you libs feel free to bless me with your genius to the following questions.
1. Do you think Bishop should have voted for this bill knowing that many of his constituents would be negatively impacted?
2. Do you think Bishop knows that we are in a recession and that many local business with over 10 employees such as the restaurant, hotel and service industry will be forced to provide health care to all employees or be forced to pay an 8% payroll tax.
3. Do you think covering ...more
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 11, 09 8:25 PM
You are completely beyond enlightenment. Sorry.
By yearrounder (208), Southampton on Nov 12, 09 9:16 AM
I agree with yearrounder.. Razaa and his ilk are completely incapable of rational debate. We should focus our efforts on moving forward and not on convincing tea baggers.
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Nov 12, 09 9:45 AM
2 members liked this comment
Folks like razza5350 fight on behalf of corporate America and against their own best interests. They will never learn. They will never free themselves.
By fcmcmann (417), Hampton Bays on Nov 12, 09 9:48 AM
1 member liked this comment
Many call Razza names and say he is "beyond enlightenment"
But none of you offer anything resembling an argument. For a moment look past your righteousness and consider the data.
I assure you, an 8% increase on payroll tax will result in lower wages and less hiring. It may very well send people to the unemployment line.
Call people names as much as you like, but do not ignore the data. If you work for or own a small business you will be negatively effected by the proposed health care ...more
By double standard (1506), quogue on Nov 12, 09 11:51 AM
1 member liked this comment
Doublestandard, I have already rebutted your false assertions based upon statistics from an insurance and pharmaceutical industry funded source. See below.
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Nov 12, 09 1:15 PM
Once again you have displayed your intellegence. Can you answer the questions?
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 12, 09 1:22 PM
Great answers guys. You really proved your points. Can anyone with half a brain actually answere the questions posed?
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 12, 09 1:23 PM
Clever that you have chosen to attack the source, so I have offered you another source. I can offer you about 100 sources on this issue and you can determine which one you like. In the end you have not proven the data to be false at all.

By double standard (1506), quogue on Nov 12, 09 2:04 PM
Thank you, Mr. Bishop for voting for this reform now please continue to fight to make it better so that the public option is available to all Americans.
By fcmcmann (417), Hampton Bays on Nov 12, 09 9:49 AM
For dagdavid

FYI I am a small business owner. This will hurt me and subsequently my employees. Here is the example you asked for...

Don't be so quick to line up for socialism people - it's going to hurt you.


"The 1,990-page bill the House leadership unveiled Thursday would impose a dizzying barrage of new regulations on employers, and force them to either provide government-specified health insurance or pay a penalty of up to 8 percent of their payroll."

Source: ...more
By double standard (1506), quogue on Nov 12, 09 11:09 AM
Media matters - an non-partisan media watchdog -states that the Galena group is "funded by the pharmaceutical and medical industries" http://mediamatters.org/research/200905120040

Who will you cite as your next source, Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh?
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Nov 12, 09 11:42 AM
Nope. I don't listen to propaganda Sir.
Let's stay on topic

True or False

The bill would impose new regulations on employers, and force them to either provide government-specified health insurance or pay a penalty of up to 8 percent of their payroll


By double standard (1506), quogue on Nov 12, 09 11:59 AM
BTW - if you need another source

Under the House measure, employers with payrolls exceeding $400,000 a year would have to provide health insurance or pay the 8% penalty.

Wall Street Journal
By double standard (1506), quogue on Nov 12, 09 12:13 PM
You don't listen to propaganda yet you cite as evidence an insurance industry funded source? The answer to your question is FALSE and I am more than happy to rebut your assertions using credible sources: Jonathan Gruber, a respected health economist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology who asserts that -

"A vast majority of the nation’s small employers — those who have 25 or fewer workers in the Senate health bill or annual payrolls of $500,000 or less in the House version — ...more
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Nov 12, 09 12:36 PM
This coming from the same guy who argued that the DrKimmelstein (head of DR for universal health care advocate group) study claiming 44,000 people die each year to lack of health care was legit. Stop getting your info from moveon.org
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 12, 09 1:19 PM
I did offer you another source and the data remains the same.
The answer to my question is TRUE

Under the House measure, employers with payrolls exceeding $400k a year would have to provide health insurance or pay the 8% penalty. Employers with payrolls between $250k and $400k a year would pay a smaller penalty.

We can debate this forever, but we'll still disagree. If this passes I hope I'm wrong and we have found the greatest thing since butter and toast. If I am right I ...more
By double standard (1506), quogue on Nov 12, 09 1:59 PM
"Small businesses that currently offer coverage often pay significantly more per worker than larger employers do for the same coverage. Under all of the current bills, the smallest employers would gain quick access to new insurance exchanges — where plans would compete for their business...."

Compete for business... great!! Let's allow cross state competetion which would expand the possible options from five companies (in NY) to 1300 nationwide as identified in Republican health care overhaul. ...more
By Simon (16), Southampton on Nov 14, 09 11:57 AM
Enlightenment:

A $30 trillion unfunded liability would require a $1 trillion annual deficit for 30 years.

It's simple math, razza.
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 12, 09 11:09 AM
The fact that there is this much confusion shows why it should not have been passed. It may be good, it may be bad, the one thing that is for sure is that it is confusing and subject to interpretation.
By The Real World (345), southampton on Nov 12, 09 1:10 PM
Its 1900 PAGES of beaucratic nonsense. Not one of us truly understand it all. It was written by a bunch of trial lawyers who have no real idea what type of impact it will have on our lives
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 12, 09 1:16 PM
It was written by insurance lobbyists, six per congressman.

Ever wonder where your insurance premiums went? Cost of funding lobbyists, campaign donation, media events, astroturf movements, advertising, etc.: $1.5 million per day.
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 12, 09 3:35 PM
I am stiil waiting for someone to answer my questions. I would love to hear your rebuttals on each of my 6 questions. I believe they are all pretty good ones. The arguement is not over a single payer system (which we all know we arent getting). Its over the Bill designed by Pelosi, whats in it and what type of impact it will have on us.
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 12, 09 1:14 PM
You will probably wait forever.
If not, you will likely be called a name and someone will throw their ideology at you and assume that you are stupid because you disagree with them.
Those who claim to be the most enlightened are usually the most closed minded.
By double standard (1506), quogue on Nov 12, 09 2:11 PM
Allow me:

1. You are making false assumption - this is not a question, but a rhetorical accusation.
2. You are making false assumption - this is not a question, but a rhetorical accusation.
3. No. Covering pre-existing conditions brings down costs because people are not forced to either go to the emergency room or die. Would you rather they die than have their condition covered? Sounds like you would.
4. Tort reform will NOT lower premiums. Study after study shows it ...more
By yearrounder (208), Southampton on Nov 12, 09 3:00 PM
razza - I already did: I debunked your "$30 trillion unfunded mandate". But go ahead and ignore that, we knows that you can't deal with facts .
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 12, 09 3:43 PM
Thanks Yearrounder you have just confirmed that you are a moron
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 12, 09 3:59 PM
1 member liked this comment
Yearrounder
1. and 2. are not accusations they are FACTS. Many employers out here have seasonal workers that they can not afford to cover. They will now be forced to cover them or have to pay a fine (tax). This will lead to salaries being reduced, benefits being reduced and people losing there jobs.
3. If prexisting conditions need to be covered unconditionally the a person may be more opt to not take the coverage and just pay the fine. Why not. They can alway opt in when they get sick. ...more
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 12, 09 4:29 PM
"Thank You" to the author for informing the constituents of Tim Bishop that he voted for this socialist healthcare bill. When he gets voted out it won't be a surprise.
By kpjc (158), east quogue on Nov 12, 09 3:24 PM
LOL Another idiot talking about a bill he's never read. There is no social service in this bill, it is pure corporate welfare.

Only after you stop using public schools, highways, police, fire and other socialized services will your ranting about "socialism" have any value at all.
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 12, 09 3:32 PM
Noah have you read the bill? Do you understand it? You speak as if you do. You are simply regurgitating bullet points from moveon.org. The public school argument is just plain old. The only way you can make that argument is if you socialize the entire industry. Doctors work for profit, Hospitals operate for profit (or at least try) and yes insurance companies operate for profit. If you want to create true social services within the medical field ALL for profit entities need to be employed by the ...more
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 12, 09 4:10 PM
razza, why don't you respond when you've been debunked? Your "$30 trillion in unfunded liabilities for medicare" is a complete fabrication that you refuse to acknowledge.

In 2008 Medicare spending was $325 billion. To incur a $30 trillion unfunded liability, medicare would have to spend an extra $500 billion every year for 60 years.

How can anyone hope to have a substantive discussion with a person who ignores factual information and is utterly incapable of logical deduction and ...more
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 12, 09 6:32 PM
Rather than a 2,000 page health bill why not make it 2 pages. It can list all the options that current Congressmen have in health care. We all could select a nice PPO and be done. No fines or penalties. I mean after all don't they work for us?
By Dr Spock (36), Hampton Bays on Nov 12, 09 4:53 PM
HR 676, Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act
introduced Conyers Kucinich, McDermott and Christensen.

27 pages, read it and weep. http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-676
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 12, 09 6:14 PM
Noah Way did any idiot on this board read the bill, not even the whimp who voted for it-Bishop. How long did it take you to think up the crap about police and schools, you are confusing basic freedoms with basic gov't servicers. Should the Government feed us too or wipe our A____?
By kpjc (158), east quogue on Nov 12, 09 6:17 PM
1 member liked this comment
Highways and schools and police are not basic freedoms, they are socialized services funded by taxpayers. Are you really that ignorant?

Don't bother replying, it's a rhetorical question.
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 12, 09 6:36 PM
KPJC, just because you say something loudly and scream and yell and stomp your feet does not make you correct. You really do yourself and your fellow neocons a disservice with this kind of puerile nonsense.
By yearrounder (208), Southampton on Nov 12, 09 7:31 PM
Bishop was a provost at southampton college. I guaratntee there is no way he could comprehend or interprete it. None of these bozos have any clue how this 2000 page monostrousity will affect our lives
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 12, 09 7:57 PM
Who is screeming!! i didn't see a response from you about having the freedom to choose as you described. See the trouble with you libs is that you can never face reality.
By kpjc (158), east quogue on Nov 13, 09 8:15 AM
NOAH WAY--- Where is your self esteem? Do you really need the government to take care of you. I see since you cannot make an valid point you resort to name calling, very childish. Grow up and take care of yourself.
By kpjc (158), east quogue on Nov 13, 09 8:18 AM
Ok NOAH WAY, my first reply was a reaction. Lets let the readers determine the idiot on this board. I said basic gov't services not freedoms.
First off public schools, police fireman are funded by taxpayers on an equal basis. If neighbors homes are worth the same value weather one makes ten million or fifty thousand the property tax is the same. similiar for sales tax. Both of which fund local services.

This bill is written to tax the have's(hard working) to support the have nots(mostly ...more
By kpjc (158), east quogue on Nov 13, 09 9:36 AM
kpjc "police and schools, you are confusing basic freedoms with basic gov't servicers."

If you agree that these socialized government services OK, then why shouldn't health insurance be socialized too, with everyone paying an equal share and having equal accessibility?

You clearly haven't read the bill. It taxes everybody to benefit health insurance providers and prevents any competition to insurers.
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 13, 09 3:07 PM
KPJC, You cant listen to these guys. They don't listen to reason. Anyone who supports this bill is just ignorant. The democrats control the house, presidency and senate and this is the best they can do? A 2000 page pile of crap that no one understands and is loaded with so much pork for special interests. The working man and small business will bear the burden of this pig, our debt will continue to grow and we will be worse off. It amazes me that people like yearrounder can't even see the fact ...more
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 12, 09 7:53 PM
"They don't listen to reason?" LOL

Why can't razza respond to the debunking of his $30 trillion unfunded liability?
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 12, 09 10:10 PM
Noah you have yet to answer any of my other questions but seem to want to pick apart one comment I made because it is the ONLY thing you got correct. It was a typo. Its not unfunded liabilities but underfunded liabilities. FYI The great expansion of medicare part D by Bush and the democrat controlled house already has 8 trillion in underfunded liabilities and now they want to eliminate the donut hole which will add to it. When they say underfunded they mean in the future. This means that current ...more
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 12, 09 11:10 PM
Razza, you said it, these libs are inwardly regretting voting for Obummer and cannot deal with it. They want every bill presented to congress to pass in hopes that one may work to save face.
By kpjc (158), east quogue on Nov 13, 09 8:21 AM
KPJC I agree with your beliefs but I have to disagree with your view on Obummer. I DO feel many independents may have regretted voting for him but very few libs have. If Obummer told them to jump off a cliff they probably would. They hang on every word that he says as if it were gospel.
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 13, 09 8:52 AM
This message board is really a microcosm of what is going on w/ our fed govt.
2 sides screaming and insulting each other with neither side at all interested in consensus. Maybe we deserve the horrible representation that we have at all levels of govt. Maybe the divide between the republicans and democrats represents the divide between Americans. I always hoped that the intention was to get things right and do what is best for the country. I don't see much reason to remain hopeful of that anymore. ...more
By double standard (1506), quogue on Nov 13, 09 8:54 AM
1 member liked this comment
You are never going to appease the far right or left. You can only hope to appease the middle. I think the problem has been Bush, Obamma, and polciticans such as Palin, Frank, Pelosi and Reid are all very polarizing figures
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 13, 09 8:58 AM
I do feel that a real true lib does feel shafted by this reform bill and if they were a true lib and not an Obamer diciple they would know what I'm talking about.
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 13, 09 8:55 AM
You are coerrect razza Independents are the truly shafted ones.
By kpjc (158), east quogue on Nov 13, 09 9:22 AM
More bogus numbers. You got Glenn Beck on your speed dial so you can fact check?
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 13, 09 10:05 AM
Im still waiting for you to answer my questions. I have a feeling I will be waiting a long time
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 13, 09 1:43 PM
Your first 4 questions were opinionated "do you think" type misconstructions and meaningless.

Your last question stated "facts" about medicare costs that I debunked. Your sole response to that was "Its not unfunded liabilities but underfunded liabilities", as if they were different. The fact remains the same - your numbers are entirely bogus. The basic premise of your argument (and I use that term very loosely here) is false, which renders your conclusions false as well.

The entire ...more
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 13, 09 3:21 PM
Today it has been revealed that Goldman Sachs is advising private insurers that no reform whatsoever would be best for their future profits. If you support this system designed to increase profits at any cost, including human life, then you are part of the problem. If you think that Goldman Sachs is looking out for your interests and you are not an insurance company CEO, then you are delusional.

I believe single payer is the only solution. I believe we should take the profit out of ...more
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Nov 13, 09 10:50 AM
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You don't even know what you are supporting. Certain insurance companies stand to make Billions of more money from this bill. AARP will be a huge benefactor. This isnt a bill for the people rather special interest groups. I would have more respect for you if you just came out and said I will not support anything that is not single payer universal health care. Again if you want to take the profit out of health care then don't forget doctors, medical equipment makers big pharma ect. all would need ...more
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 13, 09 12:02 PM
This may shock you, but I do not come here trying to earn your respect, razaa.
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Nov 13, 09 12:59 PM
Thats where you and I are different. Even though I Wholly disagree with your opinion I respect it.
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 13, 09 1:41 PM
Baloney.
By yearrounder (208), Southampton on Nov 13, 09 1:52 PM
Baloney, razza. You don't expect anyone's opinion and it is ludicrous of you to even attempt to say so given the nature of the majority of your arrogant comments.
By yearrounder (208), Southampton on Nov 13, 09 1:53 PM
Thats where your wrong yearrounder. Even though I completely disagree and will do my best to make my point I still have respect for everyone (until proven otherwise) as a fellow American and human being. We all as individuals have different beliefs and values that make us who we are. Don't get me wrong I wouldnt want to hang out with you and I'm sure the feeling is mutual but as the libs say dissent is patriotic. Thats what makes this country great. I am not a hater I'm a lover LOL
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 13, 09 3:01 PM
The Right has Palin and Beck types and the left has Pelosi and Reid types.
A quick look at this short list should tell you that mediocrity is not even on the radar.
By double standard (1506), quogue on Nov 13, 09 11:24 AM
Noah nice answers. Let me get this straight.. In your own words you are incapable for thinking for yourself so you can't answer questions 1-4. In regards to questions 5-6 you feel that medicare is profitable and not underfunded. I hope you at least realize that if medicare were a private company they would be out of business.
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 13, 09 6:49 PM
HAH! This from the person who claims he respects everyone's opinion!
By yearrounder (208), Southampton on Nov 14, 09 11:10 AM
Can't I respect someone and NOT be a pushover. You are a very unhappy person
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 14, 09 1:49 PM
A slightly different take on this. Where in the constitution is it written that the government have the power to force a citizen to buy a product??!!
Also does the constitution give the government the right to force a private business to provide insurance to their employees?
Doubtfull on both counts.
By bigfresh (3389), north sea on Nov 14, 09 9:32 AM
I would agree but its an iffy one. They do require individuals to buy car insurance. I am 100% against the health care reform bill but if it has any chance of working I believe it must be done
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 14, 09 4:37 PM
Excellent point. You have to buy car insurance, but only if you own a car. You have to buy homeowners insurance, but only if you own a home AND have a mortgage on it. In both cases the idea is to protect others; primairly banks (who with a mortgage [or auto loan] essentially become the owners of your property) from losses if the property is damaged, and people who might be harmed by your driving.

I don't think the government has the right to mandate the purchase of private insurance, and ...more
Nov 14, 09 10:50 AM appended by Noah Way
Health insurance mandate may test limits of federal power / Boston Globe http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/11/02/some_doubt_constitutionality_of_a_federal_health_insurance_mandate/
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 14, 09 10:50 AM
What Noah says in the first paragraph is correct however you can not go to the car insurance carrier and get coverage after you have totaled your car and expect to be covered for it. With the current House bill on the table you can opt out of medical coverage via a fine and hop right on if you get sick. You will be left with a healthy pool of people opting out thus driving up costs. If the house chooses their present course the only way for it to even have a chance to work (odds @ .000001%) is to ...more
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 14, 09 1:46 PM
I love how you pull "facts" out of the deepest recesses of your mind and present them as gospel. Magnificent. Truly. If we could all so thoroughly delude ourselves we would never have a care
By yearrounder (208), Southampton on Nov 14, 09 4:17 PM
well yearrounder I would love for you to explain how my "facts" are not just that. If you were healthy and had a choice of paying 400 a month for health care or paying a 750$ fine knowing you could jump on at anytime and be covered which would you do.
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 14, 09 4:40 PM
Is it not odd, that this plan does not take place for 3 or more years from now. Yet we will be taxing from day one to fund this plan. If there was an national health care emergency, should not this plan start tomorrow. This is a farce. This is not about health care at all, but amount shifting power and control to the government, period. Government administration of any program, ie health care, banking, housing ,etc is never, never about serving the people, It is about controlling the people. ...more
By grimag (38), southampton on Nov 14, 09 3:37 PM
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Can you please explain in detail what tax you are going to have to pay from day one? You are talking out of your - well, let's just say talking points. Seriously, I challenge you to provide exacting proof of your assertion that you are going to be taxed to pay for health care. Show me the line from the legislation in either the house or the senate and explain exactly how it pertains to your specific situation.

In the meantime, you fret over the tyranny of government power but have absolutely ...more
By yearrounder (208), Southampton on Nov 14, 09 4:15 PM
Just curious. So you think this is going to be free. Paid for by someone else for you. Do you think medicare is free?
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 14, 09 4:30 PM
OK, Razz, same challenge to you - Can you please explain in detail what tax you are going to have to pay from day one? I challenge you to provide exacting proof of your assertion that YOU are going to be taxed to pay for health care. Show me the line from the legislation in either the house or the senate and explain exactly how it pertains to your specific situation.

By the way, I pay for my own insurance, and I pay a hell of a lot - out of my OWN pocket.
By yearrounder (208), Southampton on Nov 14, 09 4:41 PM
show you a line in the legislation give me a break. Yeah line 567 on page 1533 paragraph 34 item B. Give me a break. I as a employer of 33 Full time employees who I now provide CVG will be forced to provide for the 22 Part time that I dont or pay an 8% payroll tax. Thus I will be forced to lay people off or offer no salary increases thus screwing the working class. Further more for the regular individual make sure to go up and kiss the wealthy persons a___ for taking care of you. Are you really ...more
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 14, 09 11:17 PM
in regards to you paying a lot out of your own pocket I agree it sucks but this bill will not help you. They need a bill to address tort reform, insurance reform and most importantly find ways to reduce the cost of care. I was recently tested for LYmes and the blood work cost 900. Until they focus on that rates will continue to rise
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 14, 09 11:24 PM
so the govt is going to run the health care system, huh? they can't even get the flu vaccine to the public (oh wait the prisons will get them first) and we can expect the govt to give us decent health care ? all we can expect is BIG mess like social security, medicare, US post office and on and on and on.....
By americanivory (7), east hampton on Nov 14, 09 4:24 PM
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The US post office delivers millions of pieces of mail each day. Medicare, despite problems cause by corruption, operates at rates 30% below private insurance. And since you think that social security is such a mess, why not simply refuse to accept it. Same with medicare.
By yearrounder (208), Southampton on Nov 14, 09 4:43 PM
1. Medicare LOSES billions of tax payers dollars each year. If medicare were a private company they would be out of business.
2. If you would refund me all of the money I have paid into medicare and SS I would gladly refuse it. Problem is most people with money would do the same leaving people like you with nothing.
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 14, 09 6:59 PM
Razaa is a private health industry mole whose corporate directive is to spread misinformation and fear. He may deny it, but that is expected.
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Nov 14, 09 4:47 PM
yea im indusrt mole on 27 east spreading fear. Are you paranoid? Did you take you medicine this morning
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 14, 09 6:54 PM
Who else but a corporate zombie would put up such a defense of the insurance industry. Mole.
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Nov 15, 09 11:09 AM
a peson who believes in the free market and not more gvt control. gvt control over an industry (medicare) they cant even effectively manage themselves
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 15, 09 11:30 AM
Amazing the way fundamentalist conservatives ignore corporate money and influence in government. Amazing the way they scream that any action at all on the part of the government is a socialist takeover of the corrupt private sector that OWNS the government. Amazing the way they scream for more deregulation when deregulation caused the biggest economic collapse in history. Amazing the way they equate a bill that enriches private health insurance corporations out of the pockets of citizens with a ...more
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 14, 09 5:26 PM
amazing the way libs ignore the fact that this bill is loaded with corporate influence. Amazing that the libs don't see that their messiahs claim of hope and change is business as usual in washiington.
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 14, 09 10:40 PM
LOL! More nonsense from razza. Excerpts from some of my posts (in this very thread!) demonstrate that he is truly oblivious:

"This porkfest is simply an extension of corporate welfare. ... Don't think for a minute that this corrupt lobbyist-controlled, corporate-funded government is going to do anything for its citizens."

"It was written by insurance lobbyists, six per congressman."

"The poor get assistance to buy insurance - money that goes straight to private corporations. ...more
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 15, 09 11:36 AM
Even better, razza decries corporate influence in Washington but blames Washington for it!
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 15, 09 11:37 AM
Bishop better wake up
Look at the other artical that the flu shots are hard to come by.
BUT
The BIG SHOTS on Wall street got them
We are getting SCREWED AGAIN
WAKE UP
By sjd (420), Westhampton Beach on Nov 15, 09 1:33 AM
Expect the loss of 60 billion a year in medicare to rise substantially. AP just released an article claiming medicare fraud and waste alone increased three fold this year to 47 billion.
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 15, 09 9:10 AM
More bogus numbers. This has been debunked before yet razza keeps repeating it as if it were Gospel. Which for him it is, apparently. Belief systems are incompatible with knowledge.

Even if it were true, it would only be about 15% of the amount of money wasted on insurance industry profits and overhead.
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 15, 09 11:42 AM
The truth about corporate America and the health care debate. If you can stomach this, then you are not a fan of what a democracy should be.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/15/us/politics/15health.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Nov 15, 09 11:08 AM
The reason Health care is such a central issue with most people is because it is a debate about what the uture direction of the country should be. Do you want to expand entitlement plans, increase taxes, increase overall costs through higher taxes and expand GVT control (socialism) OR do you let doctors, insurance companies, lawyers, pharmaceticals, medical equipment makers, Ect Ect continue to make profits (capitalism). I agree we need reform.We need to decrease the cost of care and insure more ...more
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 15, 09 11:37 AM
Noah Way your view on corporate profits is off base. If you don't want any corporate entity to make money than. Don't buy food(farmers may profit). Don't get a haircut, don't buy shoes, don't fly, don't got out to eat. Maybe the gov't should just take over everything because people may make money.
Even with corporate profits and CEO salaries private industry is more efficient than gov't run operations.
By kpjc (158), east quogue on Nov 15, 09 12:18 PM
Another unabashed corporate fundamentalist distorting the discussion to extremist views. Profit is not bad. Excessive profit is, especially when it is at the expense of people's lives. I'll bet you don't have any problem with current financial sector profits either, despite the fact they are based on TARP money.

Fact: Medicare overhead is 3%. Private insurance profit and overhead is 30%. In other words, your statement:

"Even with corporate profits and CEO salaries private industry ...more
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 15, 09 4:01 PM
comparing medicare and the private industry is like comparing apples and oranges. I dont care what the operating expenses are for medicare they operate at a massive loss to the taxpayers each year. Any health carrier operating on those margins would be out of business. You infer that medicare is actually more cost inefficient that is simply not true
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 15, 09 4:43 PM
To those who bash Obama, Bishop, Health Care Reform... may I paraphrase John Stewart:

YOU LOST. IT'S SUPPOSED TO TASTE LIKE A CRAP TACO.
By Undertow (64), Southampton on Nov 15, 09 4:23 PM
PS - A lot of these carping folks could be the same ones who bellowed "Obama's gonna take away my guns!!!!"

How'd that one turn out?
By Undertow (64), Southampton on Nov 15, 09 4:25 PM
"The plan costs $894 billion, Mr. Bishop said, and the government will pay for it through a new tax on individuals who make more than $500,000 a year, and families that bring in more than $1 million per year—“99.7 percent of people will not have an additional burden,” Mr. Bishop said.'

Hmmm... maybe those are similar to tax CUTS that were put into effect during the Bush Administration, which, along with the needless Iraq war, effectively bade goodbye to the fiscal (i.e. year-to-year, NOT ...more
By Undertow (64), Southampton on Nov 15, 09 4:32 PM
The deregulation that caused the housing collaspse occured during the Clinton years through the expansion of Fannie mae and freddie mac. Furthermore if Bishop told you the sky was purple would you believe him. Bishop has no qualifications whatsover to even make that staement. His prior experience was as a provost at Southampton college. He does and says what he is told by the democratic party
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 15, 09 4:48 PM
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So Fannie and Freddie were the cause of the housing collapse - do you get this stuff from Beck or do you just make it up?

The deregulation that caused the current ECONOMIC collapse started with Reagan, who slashed taxes on corporations and the rich, raised them on the working class and more than doubled the federal deficit during his two terms in office.

Bush abandoned regulatory enforcement, resulting in the SEC ignoring Bernie Madoff and others despite years of clear evidence ...more
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 15, 09 8:05 PM
youtube fannie and freddie mac hearings. Lots of your wholier than thou dems on tape lying through their teeth
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 15, 09 8:40 PM
ROFL razza did it again! He ignored historical facts like Reaganism and the history of deregulation because they conflict with his belief system. It's all the Democrats fault! As if one brand of politician was any better than another ...

Come on, razza, challenge us with some intelligent thought or observations. But whatever you do, don't let history or knowledge get in your way. :]
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 16, 09 9:45 AM
Yeah, you're right, Razza, George Bush Jr. is completely without fault. At the beginning of his terms the train was firmly on the tracks, but at the end it was in the ditch. But not his fault. You are completely right.
By Undertow (64), Southampton on Nov 15, 09 5:18 PM
Excuse me but I don't think I said George Bush was without any fault.
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 15, 09 7:18 PM
No, but you go out of your way to blame democrats and GW was not a democrat.
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Nov 16, 09 9:10 AM
Go to youtube and google Fannie Mae freddie mac hearings. Bush is responsible because he did not do enough to reverse the act created by Clinton that greatly attributed to the housing bubble burst. I don't know why it has to left vs right all the time. Many people on the hill did the wrong thing and should be held accountable for their actions. Any private comapny that took advantage of the policy THEY created has burned at the stake. How about burning the very people that created it in the first ...more
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 16, 09 9:31 AM
answer to yearounder "The US post office delivers millions of pieces of mail each day. Medicare, despite problems cause by corruption, operates at rates 30% below private insurance. And since you think that social security is such a mess, why not simply refuse to accept it. Same with medicare."
well, for all the millions of mail the post office delivers and $$$ they receive they are going broke - and my mail gets messed up more times than I can say (the idiot postal worker can't tell the difference ...more
By americanivory (7), east hampton on Nov 15, 09 6:18 PM
1 member liked this comment
Unfortunately, your comment is pretty typical of the right wing lunatic fringe out there. The good news is that you and your kind are representative of an extremely small percentage of the American population. You just talk louder than everyone else.
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Nov 16, 09 8:58 AM
For all those who side with private health and pharmaceutical companies, remember this - they will not repay your kindness. Here is further proof:

"Even as drug makers promise to support Washington’s health care overhaul by shaving $8 billion a year off the nation’s drug costs after the legislation takes effect, the industry has been raising its prices at the fastest rate in years."

Read the full article here http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/16/business/16drugprices.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&src=igw
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Nov 16, 09 9:00 AM
But the Gvt will repay you with kindness? Proof? an article from the NY Times? Give me a break
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 16, 09 9:32 AM
You blame the government for everything that is wrong yet hold corporations that use lobbyists, campaign contributions, gifts, stocks tips, well paid executive positions and places on boards of directors for loyal politicians, etc. blameless.

I can't wait to see how you spin this, assuming of course that you don't just ignore it because it doesn't fit with your world view.
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 16, 09 9:51 AM
The New York Times is one of the most respected newspapers in the world, Razaa. They have been extremely hard on democrats and Obama for some time now.

I understand that you and your ilk are extreme anti-intellectuals, but to try and delegitimize every news source that is not a conservative think tank is getting really old. Instead, why don't you try actually reading the article. The price increases speak for themselves - no spin necessary.

By the way, The "Free Market" is ...more
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Nov 16, 09 10:45 AM
The last paragraph is spoken like a true Marxist.
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 16, 09 10:55 AM
I dont blame the GVT for everything. There are many negatives to capitalism that are facts of life. However you are promoting socialism. With corporate greed at least the GVT can and does hold you accountable.
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 16, 09 10:44 AM
And stop crying socialism at every turn - it is an extremely lazy answer.
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Nov 16, 09 10:46 AM
Its true. Based on your comments you are so far out there that Noah or yearrounder might even consider you nuts. (well maybe not)
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 16, 09 10:59 AM
"With corporate greed at least the GVT can and does hold you accountable."

So the government you mistrust actually does a good job at something? Since when? The news is absolutely littered with MAJOR regulatory lapses by the SEC, FDA, OSHA, DEC and most Federal watchdog agencies. Accountability is nil. It's an old story - don't bite the hand that feeds you. In this case the corporate hand.

Ignore this rebuttal too, razza. Given your inability to defend your position, it is amazing ...more
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 16, 09 11:02 AM
Never said it does a good job but it does hold you accountable. Enron, Bernie Madoff ect all wind up in prison. You are also contradicting yourself. You want single payer medical Coverage yet in your own words you bash the GVT as being inefficent and corrupt. You are a walking contradiction and I'm glad we can finally agree on something. You and peoplefirst should go out to dinner together
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 16, 09 11:28 AM
Good idea! You can bring the tea bags.
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Nov 16, 09 11:44 AM
You are the one saying government is inefficient and corrupt.

I say government is wholly owned by corporations.

Try to understand the difference, and try not to hurt yourself in the process.
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 16, 09 2:21 PM
reminds me of the Abott and Costello whos on first skit. You say the GVT is owned by corporations. You say corporations are corrupt. You say health care will be better off being run by the gvt. You are right again! I think I MAY have hurt myself .
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 16, 09 6:43 PM
You are beginning to make progress. Let's go slowly now, so you don't give yourself a cerebral aneurysm.

Remove the corruption, government gets better. What is the biggest corrupting influence in government? Corporate money.

Health insurers don't provide better product than the government, they provide worse product at much higher costs. That's how they make so much money.
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 16, 09 9:23 PM
it is really scary how you think. Remove corporate money and influence from Washington. What planet are you from? You question my intelligence I question your sanity.
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 16, 09 9:55 PM
How would you fix government?
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 16, 09 10:19 PM
The silence is deafening.
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 17, 09 10:56 PM
Noah, You truly ARE insane. You are asking this"stupid" local business owner an answer to a question that no collective group has been able to answer EVER. No Gvt in history has been able to create your perfect Utopia.

Your claim that the GVt provides better medical cvg at a better price than the private industry is just plain wrong.
Lets compare Medicare and throw out private run insurance for a sec. With Medicare you are forced to pay a 3% medicare payroll tax during your working ...more
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 18, 09 10:16 AM
Keep ducking, razza. And keeping regurgitating nonsense like unfunded liabilities.
Where does that Medicare part D money go, anyway - to the corporations that wrote the legislation?

I'll repeat the question: How would you fix government?
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 18, 09 3:16 PM
I did answer the question. How do you eliminate corporate influence and corruption in Washington. I do not know the answer. No one has been able to answer that question. Not in this conutry or any democrtatic country EVER. You are so smart though I'm sure you hava the solution to all of our woes. Probably some socialist idea that gives the GVT total control and power. We've seen how history treats those idealogies. Seeing you know so much you should consider running for President. You can have Yearrounder ...more
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 18, 09 4:48 PM
Noah, After thinking about it you are correct Mediacre Part D is run by ins companies but that wasnt my point. My point was there is no drug coverage under medicare part A. Its just another gap that need to be filled and paid for
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 18, 09 5:29 PM
Finally, razza answers a question! And an honest answer at that: "I don't know". That's a very good place to start.

I don't have the solution, but suggest that continued political efforts by reform politicians (who are in a severe minority) and economic efforts by citizens (funding reform groups and candidates, and boycotting corporations) is worthwhile. We all know that you vote with a ballot but not everyone realizes that you vote with your wallet every day.

I don't want any ...more
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 18, 09 6:14 PM
I knew you should run for President. Noah Way from southampton. I am positive that the country will be very open to your "suggestions".

Lets step away from fantasy land and address reality. I'm not sure about your 14-20% number but the fact is the medicare advantage plans are far more economical for lower income individuals. Medicare Advantage provides complete coverage with no need for Part D or supplement coverage thus saving seniors @4,000 annually.
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 18, 09 6:59 PM
Two things have always made me chuckle:

"TEABAGGERS" - If I'm not mistaken, the original "Tea Party" protested taxation without representation. We HAVE representation. The Teabaggers are essentially protesting because their candidates lost. Hope that crap taco is tasty. And, HELLO, did you guys maybe research what the current SLANG definition of a "Teabagger" is? Real genius.

NY TIMES: To those who carp on and on about its being a leftist organ, etc. Please. You folks have real ...more
By Undertow (64), Southampton on Nov 16, 09 1:39 PM
1 member liked this comment
Another genius with only one side of his brain working.
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 16, 09 9:57 PM
Great post, Undertow
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Nov 17, 09 9:08 AM
Unrestrained capitalism is economic totalitarianism.
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 16, 09 2:25 PM
1 member liked this comment
Noah is very good at spouting his radical idealogies and also very good at ignoring cold hard facts.
1. US CITIZENS pay a 3% payroll tax for medicare.
2. Medicare loses billions each year
3. Medicare is due to go belly up within 20 years
4. Medicare has more coverage gaps in it than swiss cheese.
5. The most economical and complete coverage is medicare advantage which is run by insurance companies
6. To cover the holes in coverage on traditional medicare seniors must pay ...more
By razza5350 (1895), East Hampton on Nov 20, 09 6:49 AM
bay burger, sag harbor, sag harbor turnpike