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Story - News

Mar 10, 2011 2:24 PMPublication: The East Hampton Press

Springs Superintendent Responds To Teacher Layoff Rumors

Mar 10, 2011 2:24 PM

As rumors spread through the community that the Springs School District planned to announce sweeping teacher layoffs as it struggles to prepares its 2011-12 budget, District Superintendent Michael Hartner posted a statement on the school’s website on Wednesday that said the district was weighing a range of cost-cutting measures, including possible layoffs, while stressing that final decisions were still to be made.

“Springs School like all state school districts is facing serious financial difficulties” due to cost increases it cannot control, including health insurance and pension costs, the statement read.

Noting that “the district would have to raise property taxes by over 11 percent next year in order to maintain current levels of staffing and services, the administration and Board of Eduction have generated a list of approximately 30 potential options for reducing costs while minimizing the impact on services,” the statement continued.

In an interview Thursday morning, Mr. Hartner confirmed that staff members had been notified personally of the potential measures. Of the 30 potential cost-cutting options, Mr. Hartner said more than 20 of them involve scenarios in which layoffs and program cuts would occur.

“We wanted them to hear it first from us so they would have the opportunity to ask questions,” he said of staff members.

In the statement on the school’s website, Mr. Hartner said, “It has come to my attention that a great deal of misinformation has been circulating on Facebook and in the community. Please avoid being persuaded by hearsay.”

The superintendent said that the district would begin to discuss its cost-cutting measures with parents, staff and community members at a meeting at 8:45 a.m. on Friday.

He said decisions on what cuts would ultimately be made would be tackled as the School Board holds budget workshops on Monday, March 14, March 21 and March 28. A final budget is expected to be adopted by the board on April 11 and presented to the voters on May 17.

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it's time to consider tuition for all students, give backs from the teacher unions, property owners cannot foot the whole bill anylonger
By uncleronk (136), southold on Mar 10, 11 9:32 AM
DId you go to a public school? Did your children? And now you want to take that away from everyone else?
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Mar 10, 11 10:34 AM
1 member liked this comment
so is that your solution?
By uncleronk (136), southold on Mar 10, 11 2:12 PM
The reason they are broke is becuase they already pay tuition for the kids who go to East Hampton HS $25,000 per student is that what you want tuittion have you ever priced the cost of private college...fix healthcare for real and the country will heal itself quickly
By jekgbs (35), East Hampton on Mar 10, 11 11:27 AM
ow about we evoke the Ralph Kiner approach. When he led the majors in home runs he asked for a raise. The owner told him we came in last place with you we can come in last place without you. Teachers and their unoins need to come down to what's real. When times are good.... well they are good for all of us. When things get bad we all feel the pain. I think its an imposible problem when you have politicians negotiating with their finacial supporters. It can't work and there is no part of that equation ...more
By Bob Schepps (77), Southampton on Mar 10, 11 3:42 PM
2 members liked this comment
Nobody realizes that Anchor Babies are starting to flood the school systems out here and are causing these huge deficits? This problem is only going to get worse over the next several years. Illegals don't pay property taxes, and their kids are in on a free ride and bankrupting the Springs school district. There is nothing "racist" about this cold hard fact. Legit property owners cannot be stretched any further. Tuition may be the only solution, sad to say. Why should good teachers who have lived ...more
By AARGHHH (12), Hamptons on Mar 10, 11 3:53 PM
This may not be the only thing that's causing this problem, but it is a major factor.
The same thing happened in Tuckahoe School. One person will buy a house and pay property taxes, but rent rooms out to a familes with a few kids in each family. They'll rent out 3-4 bedrooms, 4-5 matresses per bedroom,and the basement. So that's at least 10-12 kids coming from one house. I've seen it and I know first hand,,,,,my property taxes in Tuckahoe have quadrupled. Find out where these kids live, and ...more
By clamdigger (78), Quogue on Mar 10, 11 6:58 PM
2 members liked this comment
Neither of you can offer any factual evidence of your claims. I challenge you to do so. Blaming everything on "illegals" may be the easiest thing to do, but it is also the most cowardly.
By fcmcmann (417), Hampton Bays on Mar 10, 11 9:35 PM
Do you have factual evidence of you percentage claims? Didn't think so.
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Mar 11, 11 11:53 AM
1 member liked this comment
Hampton Bays? Do you live in Springs? Have you been around the neighborhood or the school? It's a fact that they are there. Want evidence? Drive around Springs and count how many houses have 12 cars in the driveway and/or 5 different entrances. It's just plainly obvious but the town does not want to put in the effort and funds to properly investigate.
By LocalTeacher (23), Southampton on Mar 11, 11 6:44 PM
1 member liked this comment
Go to some local board meetings and ask what the percentage is. You may be surprised to learn it's even higher than 35%. A better question would be do you have evidence that it is NOT 35%. Because it's actually higher.
By LocalTeacher (23), Southampton on Mar 11, 11 6:48 PM
1 member liked this comment
Factor? Yes.

Root of the problem? No.

You can't pin it on any one thing. Sustainable in not a word I would use to describe our current way of solving things. Sustainable is not a word I would use to describe the behavior which has us in this mess, especially when it comes to pensions. And, I would definitely call receiving at least 1/3 of your working salary, or more when retired unsustainable for the community. if you have been handsomely compensated, and prepared, why should ...more
Mar 10, 11 4:45 PM appended by Mr. Z
BTW, LOVE the avatar.
By Mr. Z (10907), North Sea on Mar 10, 11 4:45 PM
Teachers pensions are funded by teachers, not you, not me and not other tax payers, but teachers. It is part of their compensation. Amazing how so many of you are so resentful of teachers. Instead of trying to take away their benefits because you don't have them, why not try instead to fight for them for yourself and all other Americans.
By fcmcmann (417), Hampton Bays on Mar 10, 11 9:37 PM
1 member liked this comment
WRONG! Pensions are funded by contributions the schools make on behalf of the teachers with TAXPAYER money. You think the measyl 3% of salary school employees pay for (only the first 10 years of service) can pay for a $40k-$70k pension for life? If think it can, then therein lies the problem.

Lets say a teacher makes $100,000 a year for their 30 year career. If they paid 3% ($3,000) into the NYS pension system for their 30 year career and using an assumed interest rate of 5% that's only ...more
By YEAROUNDER (81), East Hampton on Mar 11, 11 10:52 AM
2 members liked this comment
Please provide a source of your statistic, piehole. "Anchors" that is nothing more than a teabagger term that is total b s. You CANNOT attend a public school unless you live in the district. If you think they don't check, you are wrong. If you live in the district you either own a house or your rent a house. If you own a house you pay property taxes DIRECTLY if you rent you enable your landlord to pay property taxes. I agree with fc - blaming illegals is the easy and cowardly approach.
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Mar 11, 11 11:52 AM
Uh Razza they dont check...Once since I have had kids in public school did I get a packet sent home to fill out "verifying" my legal residence. Filled it out and sent it back, end of story. No one checks. IK persoonally know of several kids in my school district who dont live there. Too politically incorrect to verify residence nevermind legal status.
By squeaky (289), hampton bays on Mar 11, 11 4:55 PM
1 member liked this comment
This is true, but clearly 20 people aren't legally renting the same house. You don't need to provide a lease, you can provide a telephone bill with the address on it to satisfy the schools residency question.
By bb (852), Hampton Bays on Mar 15, 11 12:05 PM
Certainly school superintendents in general, are overpaid, as are many teachers (half the teachers in Springs make over $100,00 a year, for working only 185 days a year, plus they get lifetime free medical and rich retirement packages that can only be dreamed of in the private sector). Look at Gualtieri - he's incompetent, making over $250K a year, plus we have to pay for his retirement and for lifetime medical for he AND his spouse - it's ridiculous. However, at least Hartner is competent, and ...more
By jperrier (53), Springs on Mar 20, 11 10:20 AM
These are some difficult truths to face, Mr.Aarghhh, but people need to open their eyes to the reality, which is, Springs is going to be a very different place in a few years. The ghettoization is starting to claw away at the core quality of life, and schools going broke is one of the writings on the wall. Young families are leaving to live in other towns where there are good schools and better prospects, including more fair taxation rates. If we lose our local teachers in this exodus as well, ...more
By SisBoomBonacker (106), Hamptons on Mar 10, 11 4:46 PM
2 members liked this comment
Sad to say, but you are right on SisBoom. This board of ed, however just gave the new superintendent a 20k dollar raise and two year contract extension, and now they toy with the possibility of cutting local teachers. There is something seriously wrong with that. Who means more to the Springs?
By snapper (17), springs on Mar 10, 11 6:57 PM
I hope they replaced their financial officer - he negotiated the current tuition deal with East Hampton, and underestimated the increase in costs last year. They Never told the taxpayers in advance. The layoff issue is brought out each year at this time, next they will blame everyone else for the financial problems except their own board and administration. Work something out with the unions to avoid layoffs, reduce staff through attrition, start from the top down.
By johnnytax (29), new york on Mar 10, 11 9:46 PM
fcmcmann..... I am absolutely sick of people like you who don't or can't see that the illegals ARE a problem. It may not be and absolutely IS NOT the only problem but it is a problem and it is growing. It's NOT racist to say this or talk about it it is common sense and reality. I would never want to just turn my back on another human being who needs help but at some point you have to stop giving out your freebees to people who do not contribute to your community. Somebody has to pay to cover what ...more
By MACK (50), Southampton on Mar 11, 11 8:46 AM
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Mack you are more than right. Some of those same guys getting a free lunch are talking out there on their iphone Try getting help from social services....you have a job, tough. BUT if you work off the books and dont bother to speak english they roll out the red carpet. I have worked several jobs, one being at Stop and Shop in HB. The pregnant ones come thru with multiple kids and welfare cards or WIC. Then their men are in line behind them with the Corona and 100 dollar bills! The racist tag is ...more
By squeaky (289), hampton bays on Mar 11, 11 5:03 PM
1 member liked this comment
Mack, right on Daddy! We have to keep speaking up on what is obviously the main problem - I'm not going to let the "racist" tag stop me from verbalizing what is clearly happening right in front of our eyes. Illegals are slowly but surely eroding our community. These revelations keep hitting me from all directions, like when I went to the American Legion's blood drive last month, and took a good look at all of the donors in the waiting and donation area; not a single illegal was there to donate ...more
By SisBoomBonacker (106), Hamptons on Mar 11, 11 10:26 AM
3 members liked this comment
Its really not about the illegals. Don't get me wrong, it is a problem. But the problem lies with the cushy benefits school employees receive. Why do you think Wisconsin is such a big issue. Someone finally took a stand to change this problem.
ANYONE with any kind of mathematical ability can sense that paying school employees (and this goes from the administrators to the janitors) medical benefits for life and contributions for the NYS pension system is NOT SUSTAINABLE.
By YEAROUNDER (81), East Hampton on Mar 11, 11 10:56 AM
Are you aware that in Wisconsin the public workers unions, including the teachers, agreed to the percentage increases that Walker wanted? They did. Walker gave a $150 million tax breaks to corporations when he first took office, thereby creating a $150 million deficit. His plan to pay for that deficit, take it from middle class working people - the average Wisconsin teacher earns $42,000 per year. Why should teachers not have benefits? Why should any of us not have benefits?
By fcmcmann (417), Hampton Bays on Mar 11, 11 3:35 PM
Yearounder, I agree totally. I may have gone off a little too much before, I just feel so strong about it that's all.
However you are correct. I work for the state and even in these times of budget crunches they are still hiring high level managers and supervisors. I do not know what people think these days but it seems like we are more than willing to pay 10 times as much to have more managers who don't work in the field. Then we wonder why the work is not getting done and why we don't have ...more
By MACK (50), Southampton on Mar 11, 11 3:32 PM
"I may have gone off a little too much before"? The right's answer to everything is to scream and yell about illegals and teachers and everyone that is NOT the problem. How about having the courage to support middle class workers and instead go after tax give-aways to billionaires and corporations. Anyone who thinks public worker pensions are the problem in America is not paying attention.

By the way, if you are so sick of it all, why not quit your job for the state and save us taxpayers ...more
By fcmcmann (417), Hampton Bays on Mar 11, 11 3:39 PM
1 member liked this comment
??????? Carry me??? Please do explain. Am I missing something how is me out of work helping anything?
If you don't think we have an issue (if you don't like the word problem) with illegals, your head must be farther up your !@& then anyone realizes.
I have No problem with people different from me......however when those people use the resources MY tax dollars pay for thusly leaving less for me. AND THEY DO NOT PAY INTO IT THEMSELVES. Then your DAMN right I have a problem.
By MACK (50), Southampton on Mar 14, 11 10:42 AM
1 member liked this comment
Yeah, you have a problem, all right. Your anger is misplaced, dude and your facts are way out of whack. FC is completely right, you want to gripe and moan about public workers and then you reveal you work for the state? Not wanting anyone to do any better than you is the definition of socialism, my man. And you know who is doing WAY better than you and just got a great big gift?! Wall Street.
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Mar 14, 11 12:31 PM
Wow so you mean to tell me that just because you work for the state your a problem?
Not all state employees are in the wrong......there are many of us who are doing the right thing, it's a job. Not all state employees are milking the system some of us actually go to work every day and put in a hard days work. We get paid just like the rest of you and are not all making top salaries.
As far as me having a problem and being wrong, get out of your house and go into our towns and villages and ...more
By MACK (50), Southampton on Mar 14, 11 2:11 PM
2 members liked this comment
This whole blaming the teachers thing has gone way out of control. Unlike most other civil service workers, teachers are college graduates with masters degrees. These people are NOT going to work for a lousy salary and poor benefits. They have to invest 150-200k in education in order to become a teacher. In terms of pensions, civil service jobs are rewarded with pensions as a return for serving a community with an important service. what service is more important than educating our children? The ...more
By snapper (17), springs on Mar 11, 11 7:03 PM
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Snapper, you are absolutely correct. The anger at teachers is completely out of control and misplaced. Here is a great bit from an article on buzzflash that helps explain why:

"Based on a recent Forbes survey, while Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker is stripping away the financial security of workers, the Koch brothers increased their wealth by $9 billion last year. Together they would rank as the fourth-wealthiest person ($44 billion) in the world.

Meanwhile, the Koch brothers and ...more
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Mar 12, 11 3:28 PM
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Why should anyone receive benefits? How about paying your own way for medical and retirement. Before anyone starts griping that it's too expensive ponder this. ALL SELF EMPLOYED PEOPLE PAY FOR ALL OF IT THEMSELVES!! It can be done. Why should the taxpayer be saddled with the additional costs associated with "benefits"?
As to the illegal problem, Razz: Even though a landlord pays his property taxes that go to support the school district, it all goes out the window once there are 2, 3 or 4 families ...more
By bigfresh (4050), north sea on Mar 12, 11 4:41 PM
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returning to local concerns, the Springs school is already at bare bones levels in terms of staffing and programs, providing far less to students than any other local district. The fact that the current board is even considering cutting or reducing staffing is hard to fathom. This is the same board which recently granted the new superintendent a 20k dollar annual raise? They are completely out of touch with whats going on in the school and obviously have some kind of vendetta with the teachers. ...more
By snapper (17), springs on Mar 12, 11 4:50 PM
"How about having the courage to support middle class workers" ?????

Are YOU aware that we have the BEST middle class in the world? Every developing country is fighting to have a middle class like us (except those snobby Euros). Are you suggesting that we bring our middle class to level of our rich OR vice versa??? That socialism dear.

Sure, teachers provide necessary services and have Master degrees but does mean they get to receive $70k-100k in benefits for the rest of their ...more
By YEAROUNDER (81), East Hampton on Mar 13, 11 11:43 AM
NO, that's Communism.

A free market, Socialist state like the former Yugoslavia would be a fine example of Socialism.
Mar 13, 11 5:16 PM appended by Mr. Z
And, I might add that NO system will function when there are different "rules" for everybody. Get busted with a couple million in your pocket, or a couple dollars in your pocket, and you may note the difference.
By Mr. Z (10907), North Sea on Mar 13, 11 5:16 PM
"Are YOU aware that we have the BEST middle class in the world" I don't know what country you're living in, bub, but I live in America where the top 20% of the American populace holds roughly 93% of the country's financial wealth, and the top 1% of the country holds approximately 43% of the money in the U.S. Meanwhile, the middle 20% of the population -- what would, officially, be called the middle class -- holds only 6% of the country's total assets. While disturbing, even this minuscule share ...more
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Mar 14, 11 12:28 PM
2 members liked this comment
Yearounder, I agree with you that in these hard times concessions may have to made, but you seem to hold quite a sense of anger for teachers. i am not a teacher, but i think they perform a difficult job in today's world with so many kids coming to school from single parent or dysfunctional homes. what are your opinions on other local civil service workers such as cops and or village and town employees?
By snapper (17), springs on Mar 13, 11 2:30 PM
I currently have one child in Springs School and one who graduated from Springs and is in the EH High School. For the last 12 years that I have had children in Springs School I have not witnessed one irresponsible expenditure. Grades 1-8 don't even have a decent playground. There are several factors contributing to our outrageous property taxes. One is illegals, one is illegal apartments, and one big one is the HIgh School. I went to see a high school guidance counselor the other day. I entered ...more
By Happy in Springs (12), Springs on Mar 13, 11 4:29 PM
happy, you are right on with the illegals, but that will always be a problem so long as the federal government continues to ignore it. in springs, we also have a lot of the anchor babies which are now populating the school. If there were no illegals and no anchors, the high school tuition would not hurt nearly as much, as the school districts population might be about half of what it is now. You can blame this on the U.S. government, not on the illegals. Still, all in all I am pretty fed up with ...more
By snapper (17), springs on Mar 13, 11 4:46 PM
You are right, the Federal Government is to blame. I don't know how we get them to fix it.
By Happy in Springs (12), Springs on Mar 13, 11 7:10 PM
I don't see this as a vendetta with the teachers, per se. It's a vendetta against gross indecency, and indifference when if comes to being compensated as an employee of the Public. There are teachers, who in the middle of a RECESSION, were demanding raises from the public who pays their salaries, and pensions. If that won't raise some enmity, it should.

I see it as the backlash, against disparity in general. Teachers jsut happen to historically be in the wrong place, and the wrong time, ...more
Mar 13, 11 5:06 PM appended by Mr. Z
"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. . . . corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed." ~ Abraham Lincoln, Nov. 21, 1861
By Mr. Z (10907), North Sea on Mar 13, 11 5:06 PM
And, thanks to Rick Crawford of UC Davis, here's the full passage of the letter to Col. William F. Elkins:

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few ...more
Mar 13, 11 5:49 PM appended by Mr. Z
"These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert to fleece the people, and now that they have got into a quarrel with themselves, we are called upon to appropriate the people's money to settle the quarrel." Abraham Lincoln, speech to Illinois legislature, Jan. 1837.
By Mr. Z (10907), North Sea on Mar 13, 11 5:49 PM
"And stop lying, please. Teachers do not make $200,000 a year and 100k in benefits for the rest of their retired lives. You are simply spewing nonsense. Unsubstantiated, right-wing nonsense. Your corporate overlords would be proud."

That's pretty funny seeing that I'm INDEPENDENT and not registered with ANY party! lol. Its people like you on BOTH sides of the isle, holding the party lines and making these problems unsolvable.

If you believe some teachers don't have a $200k benefits ...more
By YEAROUNDER (81), East Hampton on Mar 15, 11 11:38 AM
Now you say "SOME" teachers, so you are qualifying your lie, bub.

The average starting salary for a teacher in New York is $37,321.00 and the average overall is $57,354.00 with a total average salary increase over 10 years of 19.2% - facts and easily verifiable.

The package you speak of is for their LIFETIME retirement, not yearly. You are intentionally misstating and I call that a lie. And yes, you are playing class warfare, but the difference between you and I is that I ...more
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Mar 15, 11 11:53 AM
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Average total salary increase of 19.2%? Less than 2% per year? That doesn't include their step raises based on years of service. Trust me, I don't have to verify state data, I know EXACTLY what their contract gives them.

And their lifetime package? You're stating they only receive the package over the lifetime and not per year? If you believe that, then you're truly in LA LA land. With their steps raises and COLA raises, they are at 6-7% per year!! Who is GUARANTEED these type of ...more
By YEAROUNDER (81), East Hampton on Mar 15, 11 12:22 PM
1 member liked this comment
My facts are verifiable. I stand behind them. You are so upset that their pensions are "guaranteed" and nobody else gets that kind of deal? firstly, many private sector employess make a helluva lot more than teachers AND their bonuses and retirement packages are better.

It is pathetic that you cannot stand to see anyone do better than you - sounds like Marxism to me, at the very least socialism. I thought your type believed in free-market capitalism?

Teachers EARN their pay ...more
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Mar 15, 11 1:45 PM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Mr. Z (10907), North Sea on Mar 16, 11 9:44 PM
One excellent thing about 27East going to a pay model is that freeloaders like Razza can't spew more than 2 comments a day.

With so many leftist talking point emails to choose from, how do you choose which two to cut and paste?
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Mar 17, 11 6:52 PM
I would like to meet some of these teachers who you claim have spent 150k to 200k on their education, must of gone to private schools their whole lives. I have a degree also which I paided for and when and if i retire i get nothing because I don't work in the public sector. Lets get real which these salary figures, if you lump in the entire state or country of course the numbers are lower. The average cost to educate a child in NYS is 14k which is 40 percent higher then the national average. The ...more
By maxwell (169), speonk on Mar 15, 11 1:41 PM
We must not allow the right to misrepresent the facts about teachers and public workers. Many, like the poster above, say "no school employee should make over 100k, period" Do you apply that same standard to the private sector? If not, why?

The republican party has spent years engendering anger and resentment among the middle class in order to crush unions and privatize schools, public utilities, prisons, etc. and it seems to have worked. So many complain that a $56k/year teacher ...more
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Mar 15, 11 2:12 PM
You teacher bashers are just unreal. At this point it simply comes across as jealousy. I have family members who are teachers, and trust me it is a very difficult job. If you don't know that, then you don't know enough about the profession to be commenting on it.
By snapper (17), springs on Mar 15, 11 7:36 PM
Many of you teacher bashers appear to be a very bitter and angry people. Your comments scream of jealousy and envy, and are borderline pathetic. Maybe you should become teachers? I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem with the pension then. people all make choices in their lives. oh and by the way, they don't work 5.5 hour days either. they take work home too. You are clueless on this issue, and i hope you people stay as far away from our public education system as possible.
By snapper (17), springs on Mar 15, 11 8:00 PM
I have teachers in my family and among my friends and realize they work their azzes off. That being said, having a guaranteed raise EVERY YEAR just because they stay on the job is an insult to those who pay their salaries! That just doesn't happen in the real world, but academia is a worker's paradise. We can no longer afford the status quo. Time for ALL public sector employees to contribut more towards their health insurance and retirement funds. The seemingly endless reserve of tax monies has ...more
By bigfresh (4050), north sea on Mar 16, 11 8:52 AM
Teachers raises are not guaranteed. Teachers work in the "real world" and the teachers unions have often conceded to increased contributions and will likely continue to do so when necessary. Think about what this country was like before unions.

Instead of the "I don't have it, why should they" attitude, why not work so that everyone does have it - the it being a decent living wage, health benefits, and a pension.

I completely agree with snapper - the teacher bashing and resentment ...more
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Mar 16, 11 9:38 AM
Well, you see david, that would mean having to stop 1% of the country's population, from controlling over 40% of it's wealth, and being taxed like they only hold 6%.

Good luck with that, when all the sheep are bleating "SOCIALISM!!".
Mar 16, 11 8:08 PM appended by Mr. Z
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2009/10/47-will-pay-0.html
By Mr. Z (10907), North Sea on Mar 16, 11 8:08 PM
P.S.

- Bank of America: paid $0 in federal taxes & received $2.8 billion in federal benefits (+45 Billion TARP bailout)

- Exxon Mobil: paid $0 in federal taxes & received $156 million in federal benefits

- Chevron: paid $0 in federal taxes & received $19 million in federal benefits

- General Electric: paid $0 in federal taxes & received $1.1 billion in federal benefits
Mar 16, 11 9:12 PM appended by Mr. Z
http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/30/pf/taxes/who_pays_taxes/index.htm
By Mr. Z (10907), North Sea on Mar 16, 11 9:12 PM
Wow, you really are a colossal cut and paste liar. This is a typical moveON, thinkprogress tactic. Enrage their base with "shocking" statistics knowing most won't bother to scratch beneath the surface.

First of all, here's a link and excerpts from the original article, not the false one Mrs. Z linked to. Interestingly, the article she did link to shows that 47% of households pay NO federal income tax at all. In fact, many of these zero-tax liability households get refundable tax credits, ...more
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Mar 17, 11 6:41 PM
So, you think Socialist style "write offs", aren't like a TARP bailout?

Who pays those "taxes, and duties"? Mostly the consumer, or mostly the company, who uses profit from SALES to cover those costs?

Frankly, if I "assumed" that people would not read the article, I wouldn't have found a way to put the links up, without them being deleted. I'm sorry you assume everyone who read that, is operating at a third grade level...
Mar 18, 11 1:07 PM appended by Mr. Z
Remember, the "bailouts", and write-offs reward failure, and ENCOURAGE risk taking. That was quite the rant.
By Mr. Z (10907), North Sea on Mar 18, 11 1:07 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By YEAROUNDER (81), East Hampton on Mar 17, 11 5:24 PM
The teachers unions have ONE purpose, and that is to protect and enrich their members. That's not the problem (though they'll never be honest about that, "oh no, we're here for the children!!.).

Unlike a private sector union, there isn't a negotiator on the other side representing the people who foot the bill.
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Mar 17, 11 6:49 PM
Interesting. I posted a link to a site that shows just what the pensions are for any school district in the state. Its public info so I don't know why it was removed. Google it for yourselves.
It proves my point that although the average pension may be $30k, that average is skewed by those who retired 15+ years ago. I searched one nearby district and 60% of the pensions were over the $50k i mentioned. This does not include health benefits (thus the $70k per year in retirement benefits for ...more
By YEAROUNDER (81), East Hampton on Mar 18, 11 10:41 AM
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Exactly 95 % of the people in the school districts would never come near what they make plus benefits in the private sector. Your master in health, history and english might get you a 40k job in HR for a company and no way would you have security, health benefits and a pension. This is an unsustainble business model not to mention the extremely overpaid superintendants who always say that if they weren't paid 200k the districts couldn't find qualified people. Guess what? They wouldn't make half ...more
By maxwell (169), speonk on Mar 18, 11 12:23 PM
So, maxwell, you are a Marxist, or at the very least a socialist, correct? You do not believe that any one person should make anymore than any other person, despite difference in experience, job and education, that is the definition of Marxism, socialism, communism, or a combination of all three. Do you apply the same standard to the private sector? There are guys on Wall Street who work 20 hours a week and make $500k a year PLUS benefits and bonuses and, guess what, we all paid for it.
By razza5351 (551), East Hampton on Mar 18, 11 12:28 PM
As usual, you completely miss the mark, because you are so focused on labeling everything.

Most people are not saying you can't be compensated more than another for your education, experience, and intelligence.

What most of us WILL say, is that the disparity when it comes to "compensation" per qualifications, and position in our "society" is not only unsustainable, but egregiously avaristic.

If you take a look around, and put down your label maker for a while, you'd see ...more
By Mr. Z (10907), North Sea on Mar 18, 11 1:00 PM
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Springs super thinks he is still working with inmates. Our kids need teachers. I prefer to have part time super than to cut programs.
By atomic (6), Springs on Mar 18, 11 7:29 PM
Certainly school superintendents in general, are overpaid, as are many teachers (half the teachers in Springs make over $100,00 a year, for working only 185 days a year, plus they get lifetime free medical and rich retirement packages that can only be dreamed of in the private sector). Look at Gualtieri - he's incompetent, making over $250K a year, plus we have to pay for his retirement and for lifetime medical for he AND his spouse - it's ridiculous. However, at least Hartner is competent, and ...more
By jperrier (53), Springs on Mar 20, 11 10:27 AM