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New proposal for religious boundary on public roads spurs questions in Westhampton Beach

Publication: The Southampton Press
By Will James   Sep 1, 2010 2:02 PM

Plans to create a mostly invisible Jewish religious boundary in Westhampton Beach are alive and kicking, though a new nonprofit group is behind the latest endeavor, and this time around petitioners are looking to expand beyond the village’s boundaries.

The East End Eruv Association has taken initial steps to create the boundary, known as an eruv, that would not only encircle almost all of Westhampton Beach Village but also the entire hamlet of Quiogue, as well as parts of Quogue Village and the hamlet of Westhampton, according to Westhampton Beach Mayor Conrad Teller.

The Village Board held a special executive session last Wednesday, August 25, to discuss the proposed eruv, a designated area in which Orthodox Jews would be allowed to push and carry objects to temple on the Sabbath—activities that are normally prohibited on their holy day.

A March 2008 application submitted by the Hampton Synagogue, located on Sunset Avenue in Westhampton Beach, sought to create a smaller eruv and sparked a firestorm of opposition in the village that blazed for months. The Hampton Synagogue withdrew its application in May 2008 and has not since reapplied, even though religious officials stated at the time that they would refile after educating village residents about the proposed boundary.

Rabbi Marc Schneier, the founding rabbi of the Hampton Synagogue, and other synagogue officials did not return multiple calls seeking comment about the latest application.

Mr. Teller reported that another group, the East End Eruv Association, recently contacted at least one utility company requesting permission to install black markers on utility poles that would mark the boundaries of the eruv. “They have applied to LIPA or Verizon, or one of them,” he said. The mayor declined to say how he found out about the application.

On Wednesday morning, Marvin Tenzer, a resident of Westhampton Beach and a partner in the Manhattan law firm Tenzer and Lunin LLP, identified himself as the president of the East End Eruv Association. He confirmed that the group is exploring creating an eruv on the East End, and said Mr. Teller’s geographical account of the eruv is under consideration.

“It’s being explored,” said Mr. Tenzer, one of the founders of the Hampton Synagogue. “There are a number of geographical areas that are being explored at this time. Nothing is concrete.”

Mr. Tenzer stressed that the East End Eruv Association is “absolutely unrelated” to the Hampton Synagogue, although he said an eruv in the area would benefit parishioners there. He said his group is seeking to create an eruv while “trying to avoid another tempest in a teapot,” referring to the controversy brought on by the 2008 application filed by the Hampton Synagogue.

The attorney also said the East End Eruv Association is trying to determine exactly what kinds of governmental approvals it would need, under local, state and Orthodox Jewish laws, adding the group will comply with all legal requirements.

“And, again, the main issue for the eruv association is how to get an eruv accomplished on the East End with the least amount of friction and community antagonism and all of that unnecessary heat,” Mr. Tenzer said.

On Monday, John Bonomo, a spokesman for Verizon, confirmed that the East End Eruv Association recently applied with the company to mark the eruv. Mr. Bonomo declined to release a copy of the application and said he did not know details of the proposal, including where the boundaries of the eruv would be.

A Long Island Power Authority spokeswoman did not return calls this week.

According to state records, East End Eruv Association was incorporated as a nonprofit on March 10.

The Village Board struck a defensive stance against the latest proposal during last week’s executive session, according to Mr. Teller. “The board has taken a position that the public has spoken and our understanding is that for an eruv, they need public support, and we don’t believe they have the support of the public,” he said.

The mayor added that the board agreed to hire a municipal attorney to represent the village in the matter, adding that it will conduct interviews with candidates in the near future.

Mr. Teller drew an approximation of what the eruv boundary would look like on a map, though he warned that his rendering was “not 100-percent accurate” and, again, he declined to say where he got the information. By his estimation, the eruv boundary would run down Dune Road in Westhampton Beach and Quogue, cross Quogue Village in the north-south direction, cross the northernmost part of Westhampton Beach near the railroad tracks and go on to encompass the easternmost part of the hamlet of Westhampton.

Mr. Teller said an attorney will come in handy in case the East End Eruv Association tries to bypass Westhampton Beach Village and apply instead with a higher authority, like Suffolk County or the state. Suffolk County and state representatives did not return calls inquiring whether or not they had received applications from the East End Eruv Association.

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Are the Orthodox Jews that have need of the Eruv residents? Do they pay taxes in the community? If they do, then they should be able to petition for this, if they are not residents and don't pay taxes in the community then they should not be aloud to construct their barrier.
By Sag Native (54), East Hampton on Aug 26, 10 2:29 PM
They DID petition for an eruv more than two years ago, which touched off a lengthy and bitter religious conflict within Westhampton Beach, that made the Village come across like a bunch of bigoted anti-Semites.

BTW: it may sound like "aloud," but in this case it's spelled a-l-l-o-w-e-d.

And it's not a "barrier," but a religious symbol, and if you know your history, wars have been fought over such icons.
By Frank Wheeler (1256), Northampton on Aug 26, 10 6:08 PM
let me try to get this right....they need a designated area to do the things that they are forbidden to do by their own religion. is it just a matter of black markers on utility poles? Don't ask Don't tell should work fine for this group.
By uncleronk (136), southold on Aug 26, 10 2:48 PM
3 members liked this comment
They should put a "boundary" around Rabbi Schneier....to stop him from straying from his family yet again.
By LandEsq (4), westhampton beach on Aug 26, 10 2:57 PM
Now, with this eruv, I say, if the rules say you're not supposed to do something on the sabbath, isn't it cheating to put up a couple of strings and markers and such to get around the rules? What would Jesus do? I'm happy to accommodate any religion and so forth, but how do the people who want this string up feel in their own conscience, going out on the sabbath, etc.? If you put a string around the whole country, does that mean no rules apply? What I'm saying is, I'm for rules and restrictions...
By Manorville Major (16), manorville on Aug 26, 10 3:52 PM
Okay, fair enough -- but what do you call a "dispensation" given to Roman Catholics?
By Frank Wheeler (1256), Northampton on Aug 26, 10 6:11 PM
How is a dispensation that only affects an individual compared to something like an eruv that intrudes on a community??? Get some SANITY in your life and make comments that make sense!!!
By sanity (2), new york on Aug 27, 10 7:55 AM
1 member liked this comment
Jesus actually used an eruv - Jerusalem's walls function as one, and he was raised as an Orthodox Jew. Thanks for asking!
By WHBer (4), Westhampton Beach on Sep 1, 10 1:27 PM
don't go past the invisible telephone pole boundary, you will burn!!!!!!!!!
By SirHampton (60), quogue on Aug 26, 10 4:00 PM
1 member liked this comment
How is this different from the mosque proposed in lower Manhattan? Aren't people offended by the preference being given to one religious group? As Mayor Bloomberg said, no religion should be placed above another or given special rights. Isn't the eruv in Westhampton exactly what Bloomberg was referring to? Why must a boundary be marked for all to see? Can't they hand out a map to those involved? What next, a gated Westhampton? Mark my words, this is start of something much larger that has ...more
By Dodger (105), Southampton Village on Aug 26, 10 4:03 PM
2 members liked this comment
I am disgusted to live in the same community as people who post such ignorant and bigoted garbage.
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Sep 1, 10 3:36 PM
1 member liked this comment
You don't you live in Sag Harbor.
By ICE (1195), Southampton on Sep 2, 10 7:24 PM
Look, having a mosque is covered under our freedoms as Americans.

However, one must admit that the location is, shall we say, insensitive?

Maybe someday one could be seen as a "bridge", but not today. Too much, too soon.

And exactly WHY would you make such a comparison, anyway?
By Mr. Z (6057), North Sea on Sep 3, 10 12:19 AM
I live close enough, Ice, that the overwhelming stench of bigotry and ignorance has reached me.
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Sep 3, 10 5:35 PM
Oh don't be absurd. Bloomberg did not say that at all. His point was about freedom of religion - quite the opposite of what you make him out to have said. How is an eruv different from bells ringing at a church? For one thing, the eruv doesnt make any noise! If you start regulating eruvs, then the next thing you know, someone will file a lawsuit against a church for ringing bells on a Sunday. Let them put up the invisible boundary - and keep government out of it!
By nutbeem (21), Westhampton on Aug 26, 10 4:22 PM
1 member liked this comment
I don't understand why a civil form of government must give its permission for an exclusion to a religious law. What ever happened to separation of church and state?
By North of Highway (276), Westhampton Beach on Aug 26, 10 4:29 PM
4 members liked this comment
That boundary seems to have blurred, NotH -- but the way I understand this issue from two years back, the requirement is an Orthodox one, and there is no obligation on the part of any political subdivision -- village, town, county or state -- to even take action on a temple's request.
By Frank Wheeler (1256), Northampton on Aug 26, 10 6:15 PM
If "signs" weren't regulated in one way or another, every "nut" in this country would have crosses and what-all-else dangling from trees and wires outside his house proclaiming who-knows-what is coming next. And that's exacly what these are: signs. There are local laws on the books of virtually every hamlet, village and town that say you can't have more than 3 signs in the front lawn of a business; and that includes churches which are tax-exempt businesses. So now you want them to decorate every ...more
By Dodger (105), Southampton Village on Aug 26, 10 4:35 PM
This is the most obnoxious request ever. You have a designated place to worship...use it. If its against your religion to walk around town on that day then dont do it. The rest of the town didnt choose your religion for you, you did.
By GoldenBoy (165), EastEnd on Aug 26, 10 5:08 PM
Dodger and GoldenBoy, these are all good points, but think about what would happen if the town denied an eruv. The moment the town gets involved in permissions for religious signs or markers we'll be up to our eyeballs in lawsuits against bells, nativity scenes, crosses, or christmas trees. You can't have it both ways - either the town stays out of religious issues, or it regulates them all. The only winners in that scenario are the lawyers.
By nutbeem (21), Westhampton on Aug 26, 10 5:30 PM
Now hold on there, Nutbeem. What would you say if the Taliban moved in and wanted to set up a perimeter around West Hampton? Good for you? We're supposed to be afraid to oppose a string because the lawyers will get us? As Mr. T said, Get some nuts.
By Manorville Major (16), manorville on Aug 26, 10 5:49 PM
Major, I'm not afraid to oppose something that has consequence. A Taliban stockade around Westhampton would certainly be of consequence, and I'd fight it tooth and nail. But a string is of very little consequence - arguably right about the same level of consequence as church bells or nativity scenes, for example. I dont agree with the eruv, and I sort of hope it just goes away as an issue. But I dont think fighting it is worth the money.
By nutbeem (21), Westhampton on Aug 26, 10 6:02 PM
Wow you are all so ignorant and insulting. How dare you comment on a religion that you are not knowledgable about? An eruv hurts no one! How can you possibly equate it with a mosque. It's just s freaking string that most people won't even see at normal eye lines. An eruv is not illegal or against the Jewish religion. It is allowed by it. However, because of the Town code it has to be approved. Approve it and get on with it. The opposition to this makes me ill to live here.
By sirpoochala (68), Hampton Bays on Aug 26, 10 6:26 PM
1 member liked this comment
While you're on the subject of "ignorant:"

sirpoochala: "However, because of the Town code it has to be approved."

You have that 180° backward! The Town code does not address this issue either specifically or in the abstract.

The sole requirement is that of Orthodox Judaism.

You can be as "ill" as you wish, but at least get your facts accurate.
By Frank Wheeler (1256), Northampton on Aug 26, 10 7:00 PM
what is all this talk about a "string". They're talking black markers on telephone poles. If they erected stringed boundaries that intruded on others lives, then yes, it should not be allowed. But black markers on telephone poles...not the least bit intrusive. And since it's for the sabbath, I assume the markers would be taken down after that. GET SOME SANITY IN YOU LIVES PEOPLE!!!!
By sanity (2), new york on Aug 27, 10 8:00 AM
move
By sayitaintsojoe (100), Westhampton on Aug 27, 10 1:06 PM
Sanity, you obviously do not understand that the Sabbath is observed from sundown Friday until the appearance of three stars in the sky on Saturday night...every week, 52 weeks a year...Perhaps you should gets some knowledge in your life?
By nsea93 (33), Southampton on Aug 27, 10 3:48 PM
It has nothing to with the freaking string. Its what it represents, and the fact that it will turn this beautiful town , into an orthodox jewish town. Sorry to say, but if they want to be able to circumvent the rules of there religion, then they should move to a town that already accomadates there religious needs, and not try to change an entire town that has existed peacefully, until all of this crap about the eruv was thrown at us..
By whbhomeowner (1), new york on Aug 27, 10 6:45 PM
1 member liked this comment
if you are correct then why is the WHB Village Board even involved? Why isn't it up yet?
By sirpoochala (68), Hampton Bays on Aug 30, 10 7:01 PM
wow! and you don't think you are a bigot with this comment: "Its what it represents, and the fact that it will turn this beautiful town , into an orthodox jewish town. " That's an awfully large leap too! Basically you are saying that we can't accommodate a religious group with something that won't negatively impact the residents. How does that turn an entire town into "an orthodox Jewish town?" I haven't read anything about asking everyone else to move out. And as barnbabe told me - that I'm not ...more
By sirpoochala (68), Hampton Bays on Aug 30, 10 7:07 PM
sirpoochala, I'm not entirely sure that the Town Code requires an approval for an eruv, particularly if it isnt a string eruv (like little black markers on telephone poles). The approvals issue with the eruv is that the orthodox Jews don't qualify it as a valid eruv unless someone in 'authority' has approved it. I dont know the details, but I think the definition of 'authority' is fairly loose. The Westhampton Beach blogger has already come up with the idea that the permitting authority they ...more
By nutbeem (21), Westhampton on Aug 26, 10 7:00 PM
hmm. very interesting nbeem. thanks for posting this useful comment that informs but doesn't gratuitously impose any nastiness on the posters to this blog!
By sirpoochala (68), Hampton Bays on Aug 30, 10 7:03 PM
sirpoochala - you DON'T live here, you live in Hampton Bays. Just sayin'.
By barnbabe (64), westhampton beach on Aug 26, 10 10:13 PM
would any eruv opponents please clearly state why they are against this?

here's one example of an eruv: http://www.pjvoice.com/v15/15703eruv.html

so far the only complaints seem to be that "they" might break their own rules...

also: Who makes a sign/symbol religious or not? One man's 2 x 4 is another man's boundry, one man's t is another man's icon.

p.s.
I personally consider viewing the American Flag a religious experience
By dogfacejones (62), Southampton on Aug 27, 10 8:14 AM
barnbabe (i'm guessing you just loooove the Boardy Barn)

i'm in WHB either
By dogfacejones (62), Southampton on Aug 27, 10 8:24 AM

^ not
By dogfacejones (62), Southampton on Aug 27, 10 8:51 AM
There are things an orthodox Jew may not do outside the home. The ERUV is essentially a fabricated extension of the boundaries of the home. so that they can push a stroller or carry an infant or child to religious services. It used to be constructed of a string or minimal indicator and in smaller communities such as parts of Williamsburg Brooklyn and such and in small shtetles in Europe. If it is designated by silver dollar sized black dots or markers painted on telephone poles way above eye level, ...more
By DasK (24), on Aug 27, 10 9:43 AM
2 members liked this comment
didn't know about the dots instead of the string. Again, another useful clearly and fairly stated comment to this blog. Thank you DasK. I hope LIPA approves and we get the WHB village Board out of it.
By sirpoochala (68), Hampton Bays on Aug 30, 10 7:10 PM
1 member liked this comment
Telephone poles are ideal display areas for religious symbols including crosses and the Islamic crescent and star.
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Aug 27, 10 1:39 PM
1 member liked this comment
Pandora's Box... say yes to the eruv then the precedent has been set.
How do you then say no to any other religious group?
By double standard (1243), quogue on Aug 27, 10 2:58 PM
1 member liked this comment
what is the precedent and what other religious requests? As ZBAs love to tell neighbors - there is no such thing as a precedent for other neighbors if we approve one residential owner's request - every request for a variance is reviewed on a case by case basis. Calling this a pandora's box issue is just hiding behind a bigoted statement.
By sirpoochala (68), Hampton Bays on Aug 30, 10 7:12 PM
Ridiculous. Step on a crack, break your momma's back.Walk the walk, ye who would be called Orthodox, or embrace your hypocrisy and join the sensible Reform and Conservative worshipers.Observant Muslims and Christians manage to give their congregants dispensation for their worshiper's infirmities without involving the streets or the government--which BTW has no obligation in this public boundary-violating, purely religious rule.




By Jean (76), whb on Aug 27, 10 10:35 PM
To use barnbabe's comment, again, "Really, Jean?" We should tell an entire sect of Judaism that they shouldn't exist. Wow? I don't even know what to say.
By sirpoochala (68), Hampton Bays on Aug 30, 10 7:14 PM
but symbols are irrelevant without observers - an eruv is meaningless to anyone who isn't looking for it - An Islamic crescent and star would be the same - are you so easily swayed by your perceived meaning of any object or sign in your path that you need to protect your wild eyes from such suggestions? How do you react when you see the flag of another nation, how do we decide which symbols are acceptable, is this truly pandora's box - o - worms, should our currency rid itself of the phrase "in ...more
By dogfacejones (62), Southampton on Aug 28, 10 8:52 AM
blah blah blah blah blah
The short answer to your final question? : yes.

By Jean (76), whb on Aug 28, 10 10:32 AM
WHAT does THAT have to do with forcing the involvement of a governmental entity in the affairs of some religious extremists who want US to give THEM permission to "Get out of (a) Jail (of their own making) Free?
No.
The Constitution of the United States guarantees anybody's right to be a little crazy in the preferred name of their particular entity. It does no give permission to practice rites.








By Jean (76), whb on Aug 28, 10 10:47 AM
1 member liked this comment
Last sentence: It does not give the government permission to authorize religious practice rites.
By Jean (76), whb on Aug 28, 10 12:24 PM
1 member liked this comment
If they people who live in Westhampton Beach do not want it why is this a issue again??
By oldguy (60), hamptons on Aug 28, 10 4:27 PM
If you start letting certain groups get away with things like this then another group is going to want something else. When do you stop saying yes to these assanine requests. I know the rabbi in WH has actually gone around town to store owners and asked them to shut down on jewish holidays. The nerve!! I could care less if a jewish shop owner opened his store on christmas.
By GoldenBoy (165), EastEnd on Aug 28, 10 5:46 PM
1 member liked this comment
GoldenBoy: "I know the rabbi in WH has actually gone around town to store owners and asked them to shut down on jewish holidays."

You don't know that at all!
By Frank Wheeler (1256), Northampton on Aug 28, 10 6:01 PM
So what that the Rabbi asked. The store owners don't have to say yes and he is free to ask whatever he wants. It's insulting that you think an eruv for a mother who needs to push her stroller to synagogue an asinine request. IS it possible that you can learn a little tolerance?
By sirpoochala (68), Hampton Bays on Aug 30, 10 7:17 PM
1 member liked this comment
That is completely untrue. Having stores open on Saturday where there's an eruv doesn't affect the eruv or those who use it. See: Manhattan eruv for further edification.
By WHBer (4), Westhampton Beach on Sep 1, 10 2:25 PM
As an agnostic who feels that Science is the logical evolution of religion, and that religion is an antiquated system of belief to explain what early people could not understand or comprehend, I see this eruv as a logical "end around" due to modern society evolving beyond the constraints of a "faith".

The polytheistic ideal of many early religions (Sumerians, Phonecians, Greeks, Romans) sought to explain Nature itself, after all.

Apparently, all things must evolve, including religion...
Aug 28, 10 8:41 PM appended by Mr. Z
For that matter, how well do "We" as Americans abide by "the separation of Church, and State". We really don't all that well, right down to our currency. It's actually ironic how the words "In God we trust" no longer appear on denominations larger than $1,000. At that point, is the sentiment "OK God, I think I can take it from here."?
By Mr. Z (6057), North Sea on Aug 28, 10 8:41 PM
1 member liked this comment
Umm Jean...

The permission has to do with abiding by the law - a group wants to place an object on an existing object legally - "They" are not seeking permission from "Us" to skirt "their" own rules.

Frankly - you embarrass yourself by posting here.
By dogfacejones (62), Southampton on Aug 29, 10 10:58 AM
Frankly speaking -- which I can do because I'm Frank, dogfacejones, you don't know what you're talking about.

The only "law" involved here is Orthodox Jewish law, and by the terms of that Orthodox requirement, those who desire an eruv must obtain permission from a Governmental body to erect the eruv.

I'm not certain that Jean is 100% accurate, only that you are 100% wrong. The Orthodox DO require approval (much like a Catholic dispensation or a Planning Board's waiver) to "skirt ...more
By Frank Wheeler (1256), Northampton on Aug 29, 10 1:29 PM
Several eruv's in NYC (Williamsburg, Crown Heights, Lower East Side) are done by running the string between buildings simply with the permission of the property owners (most/all of whom are orthodox) without any govt approval or involvement, even though in several cases those lines (strings) cross over public streets. The key is getting rabinnical approval, which in several instances (a specific example is the lower east side) the rabbi has refused to extend the eruv beyond its existing, modest ...more
By zaz (175), East Hampton on Aug 31, 10 12:08 PM
Mr. Wheeler, no one would be forced to participate. Why must you always attack people personally? You discredit yourself.
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Sep 1, 10 3:39 PM
Yeah its true Frank ask shop owners...he also told them if they didnt shut down for the holiday he would tell his people not to shop at those stores
By GoldenBoy (165), EastEnd on Aug 29, 10 3:33 PM
No, GoldenBoy, it's NOT true!

when this first surfaced a number of years ago, the next time my wife and I were in WHB we asked several stores we were familiar with, and to a one they not only said that they had not been approached by any representative of the temple, but they didn't know any other shop-keepers who had either.

Shock is right -- stop rumor-mongering. They're going to have another war over there, and your type of unsubstantiated gossip isn't going to help!
By Frank Wheeler (1256), Northampton on Aug 29, 10 4:13 PM
IF that is true then the Rabbi, in my opinion was wrong. However, that doesn't have anything to do with what is a reasonable request for an eruv.
By sirpoochala (68), Hampton Bays on Aug 30, 10 7:19 PM
goldenboy is right- they also did this in East Rockaway years ago.
By CaptainSig (418), Dutch Harbor on Sep 2, 10 11:56 PM
Stop starting Rumors, I have been in business in WHB for 25 years and no one has ever approached me to close my stores and no one is going to .
Most shop owners close their shops for their own observance of the holidays they choose to celebrate, as a business owner I observe my holidays but I choose to keep my businesses open, as I might not work the holidays I have employees that will. I am open all year even Thanksgicing, New Years Day, even last year during the snow storms Baby Shock was ...more
By shock (70), whb on Aug 29, 10 4:06 PM
Yeah shock I remember you using the blizzard forum as add space!! Then I guess I was told wrong by multiple store owners and workers!! I appreciate the invite but I really cant stand going into main street anymore.
By GoldenBoy (165), EastEnd on Aug 29, 10 6:37 PM
GB: "I guess I was told wrong by multiple store owners and workers!! "

Names? I'll come over there and ask them directly, and if I'm wrong, I'll come back here and acknowledge it.

Put up or shut up.
By Frank Wheeler (1256), Northampton on Aug 30, 10 11:36 AM
I think the Jewish people are just being lazy here. No ERUV! my understanding is that an ERUV is a boundary that allows Jews to carry burdens across property lines on the Sabbath. Keep your burdens to yourself. Literally and figuratively.
By HW (21), southampton on Aug 30, 10 3:22 PM
2 members liked this comment
Okay so a mother with more than one young child who can't yet walk should carry both of them in her arms all the way to the synagogue because you think she is being "lazy" and shouldn't be allowed to use a stroller? Why is this even your business? Are you Jewish? Are you an orthodox jew? Do you belong to this Synagogue?
By sirpoochala (68), Hampton Bays on Aug 30, 10 7:22 PM
If Johnny Chi's delivered on the sabbath, this would probably all go away...I think that's the main point here.
By HW (21), southampton on Aug 30, 10 3:26 PM
Good point HW haha!!! Frank you know im not giving you names and I think you need a hobby or a job. Why cant you just believe brother? What are you going to quote from this post?
By GoldenBoy (165), EastEnd on Aug 30, 10 5:24 PM
Don't need to quote any more of your BS. You've been called, and have nothing.

I already have a job, and now I have a new hobby -- calling out BSers on their BS.

By Frank Wheeler (1256), Northampton on Aug 30, 10 7:00 PM
2 members liked this comment
Are you the Rabbi?
By GoldenBoy (165), EastEnd on Aug 30, 10 9:24 PM
2 members liked this comment
hers your quote-- "did we give up when the germans bombed pearl harbor??"
By CaptainSig (418), Dutch Harbor on Sep 2, 10 11:59 PM
No, you clown, I am NOT the Rabbi, just someone with a greater interest in not seeing a religious war escalate than you do in provoking such an escalation.
By Frank Wheeler (1256), Northampton on Sep 5, 10 12:59 PM
How about a deal? The Hampton Synagogue demolishes the "Rabbi's House" (which never housed a rabbi and was converted into an auditorium and catering hall without planning board approval and against zoning restrictions). They then use the vacant lot for parking in order to come closer to the minimum number of parking spaces required by code, (from which they were exempted on the grounds that they didn't have the room and that the congregation could use the nearby bank parking lot on holy days.)

In ...more
By highhatsize (2045), East Quogue on Aug 30, 10 9:34 PM
Indeed.

Are we a man of God, or a man of GOLD?
By Mr. Z (6057), North Sea on Aug 31, 10 6:07 PM
I like your idea and may I take it a step further? I proposed when the Eruv was an issue in WHB some time ago, that the WHB allow it on the condition that the Rabbi step down. He seemed o be the center of the firestorm and alienated me when I saw the YouTube video that he affirmed he would make sure an Eruv happened.

By Hambone (376), New York on Sep 10, 10 10:01 AM
highhatsize, when you say ''we'' grant them the right, are you on the board? How about a different deal, how about all these numbskulls take a hike and forget this ever happened. It is the absolute most inane thing most of us have ever heard - EVER. Frick the eruv, Frick the dopey nonsense about black markers on telephone poles and everyone stop imposing their silly mythological mayhem on us year round citizens that actually have lives to lead?
By progessivesrtoast (21), the springs on Aug 31, 10 5:20 PM
Wait...I take all that back. I now agree with my 5 year old daughter. Skip the eruv, we want to decorate the telephone poles with candy canes and gum drops in honor of our favorite board game - Candyland! Yeah! A Candyland Eruv - where everyone has to eat candy all the time - my daughter is on to something! What the heck is going on here!?
By progessivesrtoast (21), the springs on Aug 31, 10 5:22 PM
1 member liked this comment
Couldnt agree with you more protoast! I liked monopoly main street but your daughters idea is better!!
By GoldenBoy (165), EastEnd on Aug 31, 10 10:45 PM
How did that old mafiusi addage go?

"Get away with what you can, until you get caught..."
By Mr. Z (6057), North Sea on Sep 1, 10 4:27 AM
Better Idea: If we just put some black tape on the telephone poles in Maine, Washington State, Baja California and The Florida Keys, would the entire country become an eruv and then all rules for said religion would be null and void. Why don't they set their goals loftier and just make the entire US a eruv.
By progessivesrtoast (21), the springs on Sep 1, 10 12:38 PM
And anyone with a Bluto avatar is a friend of protoast.
By progessivesrtoast (21), the springs on Sep 1, 10 12:39 PM
Has anyone tried parking at the bank next door on a Saturday morning? what a joke! I stopped using that bank because they had no parking for the actual customers......
By sparkhampton (9), Hampton Bays on Sep 1, 10 11:23 PM
which bank? where is this "rabbi house"?
By CaptainSig (418), Dutch Harbor on Sep 3, 10 12:04 AM
If this eruv comes into existance Westhampton Beach is one step closer to becoming another Karias Joel (sp), that's the town upstate that's completely Orthodox. Be carefull of this slippery slope, please.
By bigfresh (1166), north sea on Sep 2, 10 11:54 AM
Read the Gothamist...lots of issues between the Williamsburg residents and the hipsters. It's not a reach to imagine that if the objective is to accommodate Orthodox Jews then it is likely they'll wish their views respected (naturally) which means no more girls riding to the beach in bathing suits.
By Hambone (376), New York on Sep 10, 10 10:05 AM
That community your referencing is actually an Hasidic Jewish Community. Saw the piece on CBS2 evening news.
By sayitaintsojoe (100), Westhampton on Sep 2, 10 12:04 PM
Which was founded and built by Satmar Chassidim, who like to be in their own enclaves.
Of course, bigfresh would never mean to imply that he's trying to keep a specific religious group from living in a certain area. That would be all kinds of illegal, right?
Side note - there is a massive difference between the Orthodox Jews (who already live here, by the way, and has it ruined your life yet?) and the Chassidim who live in Kirias Joel and look to be separate from the rest of the world.
By WHBer (4), Westhampton Beach on Sep 2, 10 6:24 PM
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Map it out and give the maps to those to whom it applies. They should be able to work this out internally.
By ICE (1195), Southampton on Sep 2, 10 7:28 PM
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I recently visited the Catskill area. I can’t even being to describe what I saw in the Orthodox Jews living arrangements. All I could think at the time was how grateful I was for where I lived. Now I am sitting here reading this…. Please preserve our community.
By scotlandrd (2), sag harbor on Sep 2, 10 7:53 PM
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we must oppose this eruv and plead for the sanctity of the shabbas! It creates a symbolic ghetto reminiscent of past persecutions, it imposes private rights in a public area, it forces the gentiles to pass under jewish religious symbols upon entering and exiting the eruv, it officially designates a public space for a private religious purpose, it is religiously devisive in the orthodox world and it is based on archaic traditions.
By isthisguyserious? (15), hampton bays on Sep 2, 10 8:45 PM
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somebody please let me know how this turns out because i have like a ton of old string in my garage that i didn't know what to do with until now.
By CaptainSig (418), Dutch Harbor on Sep 3, 10 12:10 AM
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I heard the rabbi has asked the Mayor if he could change the course of Hurricane Earl because it doesnt fit into their plans
By GoldenBoy (165), EastEnd on Sep 3, 10 2:48 PM
I don't like the concept of the Village bending the knee symbolically to any religion. However, if we could make a deal that would afford the innocent neighbors of the synagogue relief from the noise and filth (i.e. garbage) that the Rabbi's house events cause, not to mention other residents who might have a reason to park in the vicinity of the synagogue on Saturdays, I would hold my nose and make the deal.

Since the synagogue has no occupancy permit for the illegally altered Rabbi's ...more
By highhatsize (2045), East Quogue on Sep 3, 10 3:29 PM
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I know the alterations to the house are another issue and I know the Rabbi did not apply for this eruv, but it still bears mentioning that if you or I flouted the Planning Board as he had, we would not be treated so kindly.
By Hambone (376), New York on Sep 10, 10 10:12 AM
I'm not sure I am necessarily against the concept, but in Palo Alto, CA it was ultimately denied because it crossed the lines of church and state. Just my two cents.
By dylan32 (64), east hampton on Sep 3, 10 4:27 PM
In June of 2007 the Palo Alto Eruv was approved.
Palo Alto City Attorney Gary Baum stated that Palo Alto was "legally compelled" to allow the eruv.
"It's not like erecting a cross or a Star of David or any symbol of any religion because all it is is a fishing line," he said.
"It's not symbolic in any way, which is why it's not a mixture of church and state."

By Clint Greenbaum (9), Westhampton Beach on Sep 3, 10 4:39 PM
Thank you, I stand corrected. It was a very big controversy, but I didn't know it finally got approved. Appreciate you not being too rough on me Mr. Greenbaum.
By dylan32 (64), east hampton on Sep 3, 10 5:08 PM
Is this article a good summary of the Palo Alto Eruv process plus or minus?

http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/show_story.php?id=5277

Please describe or post links for how the twine was installed, and by whom. Was it a continuous length of twine, and if so, at what level above the ground?

Thank you.
By PBR (4364), Southampton on Sep 3, 10 6:15 PM
After reading the Wiki entry on eruvs, I realize that the symbolic string and posts indicating its boundaries are much more substantial than I first thought. A 2" length of wire on a telephone pole simply won't do.

On second thought, it would be better not to make the deal that I described above. The eruv needs to be maintained. If the string breaks somewhere along its length, the eruv is destroyed. I can see continuous expense and confrontation between the utilities and the synagogue ...more
By highhatsize (2045), East Quogue on Sep 3, 10 9:15 PM
Come on folks. Live and let live. Enjoy the Eruv. And... enjoy the Mosque, and the Churches. If that is what you need then have at it. The Constitution gives us all the right to enjoy our religions.
By Nordseacap (5), southampton on Sep 3, 10 9:32 PM
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Sometimes I think the real problem with religion, is that it divides more people, than it brings together...
By Mr. Z (6057), North Sea on Sep 3, 10 10:25 PM
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No Mr Z., it KILLS more people than brings them together.
By dylan32 (64), east hampton on Sep 4, 10 6:43 AM
If anyone should be concerned about the appearance of noodles in public places, fear not! The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't ask that I do this, it's just my way of asserting my faith. I'm getting nowhere in my efforts to have National Talk Like A Pirate Day (9/19) declared a legal holiday, but we'll see what happens after the mid-term elections. All hail the FSM! Ramen
By loading... (265), WHB on Sep 5, 10 11:27 AM
Hail fellow Pastafarian!
By Frank Wheeler (1256), Northampton on Sep 5, 10 12:52 PM
You're going to think this is a joke, but its a major coincidence, my tribe worships a gorgeous alfredo sauce and if you want, we would be happy to put our specially designated mythological area next to yours!?
By dylan32 (64), east hampton on Sep 5, 10 2:56 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By loading... (265), WHB on Sep 5, 10 3:13 PM
Once one has been touched by His Noodly Appendage, one becomes emancipated from mental slavery and these debates become silly. Pastafarians know this avoid all silliness. After all, WWFSMD??
By loading... (265), WHB on Sep 5, 10 3:13 PM
I hit "submit" once, and it posted twice.....its a sign! A sign I tell ya!!
By loading... (265), WHB on Sep 5, 10 3:20 PM
The eruv makes perfect sense: it allows one to avoid God's will.
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Sep 6, 10 1:37 PM
Haaaaaaaaaaaaa! And I thought all the Pastafarians were on the West Coast!
My Brother and Sister!!!
Hail to the Noodly Appendage- may the religious zealots be touched and saved!
www.venganza.org
By Jean (76), whb on Sep 6, 10 4:41 PM
Noah's exactly correct. Perhaps us christians can put some different colored markers around a couple of banks and a few night clubs. Then, we can subvert those two pesky commandments ''thou shalt not steal'' and ''thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife''.
By dylan32 (64), east hampton on Sep 7, 10 7:31 AM
"us christians"?
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Sep 7, 10 11:07 AM
I didn't think being "Christian" required any religious affiliation.

More like a state of mind, and being...
By Mr. Z (6057), North Sea on Sep 7, 10 10:53 PM
of burning Qur'an's ...
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Sep 12, 10 12:59 PM
Jackie Mason says " your Honor I'm entitled" The eruv is divisive, and exclusionary, isn't it just like any other fundamentalist religious groups to try to incrementaly impose religious dogma? How about an imaginary eruv?
By rrc1049 (61), Bridgehampton on Sep 8, 10 11:12 PM
"I watched with glee
While your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades
For the gods they made "

~Rolling Stones, "Sympathy for the Devil" (1968)

Sometimes, it sounds like "pontificate", instead of "for ten decades", but either way, eh?
By Mr. Z (6057), North Sea on Sep 9, 10 6:51 AM
So is this is what they meant when the shopkeepers wanted to ban silly string?
By Hambone (376), New York on Sep 10, 10 10:16 AM
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