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A non-profit organization has cleared two major hurdles on the path to establishing a symbolic Jewish religious boundary, known as an eruv, that would encompass Westhampton Beach Village and the hamlet of Quiogue, the head of the organization said on Wednesday.
Marvin Tenzer, the Westhampton Beach resident who heads the East End Eruv Association, said he received word from Verizon on Tuesday evening that the company intends to allow his organization to attach markings, known as “lechis,” to utility poles in order to delineate an eruv that would encompass Westhampton Beach and Quiogue, and also include parts of Quogue and Westhampton. The Long Island Power Authority, which owns other utility poles in the area, agreed to allow the organization to mark its poles this summer but is currently reviewing that agreement,... more
Marvin Tenzer, the Westhampton Beach resident who heads the East End Eruv Association, said he received word from Verizon on Tuesday evening that the company intends to allow his organization to attach markings, known as “lechis,” to utility poles in order to delineate an eruv that would encompass Westhampton Beach and Quiogue, and also include parts of Quogue and Westhampton. The Long Island Power Authority, which owns other utility poles in the area, agreed to allow the organization to mark its poles this summer but is currently reviewing that agreement,... more
What about Sharia law and wearing Burka? This is nothing I chose for myself, why should I be subject to someone else's beliefs? Stop all the personal nonsense! My religion is not your religion.... You practice your faith in your household...don't put it on my street....
The government went as far as taking the Pledge of Allegiance out of schools...which is a shame
Why should this be allowed??
Just as I would object to Baptist tent rallies held on the land across from the Westhampton Country Club (happens in Ocean City NJ every summer), I object to eruvs as pernicious religious balkanization. Rabbi ...more Schnier and his congregants know this, and clearly don't care. They know they likely won't be called anti-Gentile (are they?), yet are spring-loaded to yell anti-Semitism if there is an outcry against the eruv in Westhampton Beach. This is a heterogeneous community, commercial and residential that's far different from the suburban and urban areas that have had eruvs approved.
I really don't care about the eruv...do you really think anyone will be pushing a stroller from Quogue? I think though the Rabbi is a very disingenuous person...and I am being kind.
....and you seem so intelligent,....at times anyway.
Doesn't matter who or what you are, you still must conform to local codes! Do you think a Church could covert to a casino? Orphanage? Prison?
I think not
Can you tell me why one group should get special ...more considerations?
Can you tell me how doing so would not then open the door for every group looking for special considerations?
It’s not the size of the privilege only the fact that it has no effect on anyone and it’s not a religious symbol whatsoever. Consequentially, if any religion were to have similar ...more needs with the same effects on others whom do not follow that religion, there is no reason to object to them either. Therefore, it’s not a “special privilege” only a concession with very limited applications. This should be very discernible to anyone who seeks the truth unless there are other agendas. This is all a charade.
No, I simply propose that if any religion were to have similar needs with no effect on others whom do not follow that religion, there is no reason to object to their requests. No doubt you are entitled to your views, but realize that they are selfish, have nothing ...more to do with legal issues and will be considered a cover for religious bias.
Your counter to my argument still does not change the fact; an eruv is not a religious symbol per se. The fact that it represents something to an Orthodox Jew and he desires it does not make it a symbol. An eruv can consist of riverbanks, existing gates, houses or something that represents a wall. Orthodox Jews don’t bless these constructs; they only require that they be classified (according to Jewish law) as a true representation of a wall. If existing houses are included in the parameters of an eruv no rational person would deem these houses as being converted into a religious symbol.
I disagree I see absolutely no substance in your argument only some latent biases that you can’t come to term with or don’t want to admit to publicly.
====
I admit publicly that I don't agree with with any one group thinking that they have some kind of entitlement to concessions simply because they think it's no big deal. That's arrogance, sir. As far as you accusing me of being anti-semitic (because that is what you are accusing me of) I can say that you know nothing. ...more You are a name on a screen to me and I the same to you. I don't know a thing about you other than you are in favor of the Eruv, which I am not. Disagreeing with you doesn't make me a bigot any more than agreeing with me would make you Santa Claus.
The jewish people are asking Westhampton to allow something that the people denied themselves.
Sounds dumb to me
Frankly I really don't care about an eruv. It literally means nothing in my life. What I do take exception to are vocal minorities jamming their agenda down one's throat. I'm not saying that is you in particular but if the shoe fits.....
By the way, you misunderstood me. I was referring to this statement of yours, “The jewish people are asking Westhampton to allow something that the people denied themselves.” Can you please explain this statement?
Since some correspondents seem unaware of the controversy surrounding the so-called "Rabbi's House", I'll summarize it.
Over ten years ago, the Hampton Synagogue in Westhampton Beach was allowed a variance for a non-conforming use (a house of worship in a district zoned for single family residences) which, among other things, permitted the congregation to retain an existing house on the property for use as the Rabbi's domicile. They also were exempted ...more from the requirement of having enough (actually, they have virtually no) parking spaces required by code. (The Rabbi-manque, Marc Schneier, had started holding services in his private residence without zoning permission. When the Village demanded that he cease and desist, the banner of the good fight against bigotry and anti-semitism was raised. The Village graciously allowed an exemption.)
Fast forward ten years and the Village discovers that the Rabbi's House, in which the Rabbi has never lived, has been illegally converted for use as an auditorium and catering hall. The Planning Board issues the synagogue a notice demanding compliance, (i.e. rip out all the improvements and return the Rabbi's house to its original configuration as a single family residence.)
The synagogue hires an attorney who characterizes the failure to obtain a building permit for the secret conversion as a mere oversight and requests one retroactively.
And there the matter rests. Were the Rabbi's House demolished and replaced by parking, the Hampton Synagogue would at least have made a gesture at providing the parking spaces required by code although it would still be woefully short.
One correspondent on an earlier thread claimed that the NYS Court of Appeals had ruled that zoning laws do not apply to houses of worship.
I can find no such ruling and the correspondent provided no citations What I HAVE found is that the Supremes have yet to rule on this question but that the U.S. Courts of Appeals have held that houses of worship are bound by zoning regulations unless the regulations that bar their construction constitute a serious impediment to the conduct of their religion, rather than merely causing inconvenience or expense.
In the case of the Hampton Synagogue, the continuing irritation that these parvenus cause could easily be remedied by moving the congregation to one of the many buildable tracts of land north of Montauk Highway. The existing property could then be reconverted, (or re-reconverted in the case of the Rabbi's House) to single family occupancy just like all its neighbors.
Should the Hampton Synagogue choose to retain its current location, the Rabbi's House MUST be demolished since it stands as a defiant monument to bad faith.
Until this conflict is resolved, the idea of expanding the scope of interference by this group and its mendacious Rabbi by creating an eruv is masochistic.
What more has to be said????
Does the truth really upset you that much??
1. the rabbi's house
2. parking
I don't live on a contiguous street but I go past it enough to empathize with residents who have 2-6 cars parked in front of their houses. Some streets nearby lack high curbs and drivers feel entitled to pull up on the grass.
While it is not a full blown catering hall, I'd have to say Id be a bit annoyed if a place of worship used their bldg/land improperly.
Even the fact that the anti-eruv campaign is being run by Jews is a cover for bigotry. Discriminating against Orthodox Jews even by non-Orthodox Jews is either a form of anti-Semitism or at the minimum simple bigotry. You guys ...more should look yourselves in the mirror and you will see bigotry written all over your face.
-It’s not Torah law, eruvin is rabbinical in nature
-An eruv can even make use of existing infrastructure.
-it’s not a “special privilege” only a concession with very limited applications.
-An eruv can consist of riverbanks, existing gates, houses or something that represents a wall. Orthodox Jews don’t bless these constructs; they only require that they be classified (according to Jewish law) as a true representation of a wall.
+++
Those ...more are your words. So call me a bigot, call me an ostrich or banana I really don't care. The fact remains that this is a religious matter and one group (in this case Jews) are asking for special considerations on public sidewalks. Screaming "Bigotry! Bigotry!" doesn't change what the facts are. You make such a stink over something that you have successfully diminished into a "concession with very limited applications. (Your words.) If it's "rabbinical in nature" (your words again) then perhaps your rabbi needs to find a solution, not the town. "Bigotry! Bigotry!" he screams and sees the world as so very few for him and so many against him. So sad, davidsline.
Your inability to see the point of view of anyone else on this matter is childish at best. But we can fight about it as long as you want because I want to see just how many "bigot, bigot, bigot" rants you have in you.
Here is the argument for you again in case you missed it.
I am against a public sidewalk being used for (enter name of a religion here) purposes.
I'm sorry to all the ...more (enter name of the religion here) people that may be offended. davidsline has convinced that I'm a bigot because I disagree with the request of (enter the name of the religion here) to use the sidewalks as they see fit because "it's no big deal." I will reach out to all members of (enter the name of religion here) and attempt reconciliation and let the healing begin.
I will also freely admit that I did not vote for Tim Bishop and fear that I may have some subconscious hatred towards men with beards and glasses. I'm working on it.
Shouldn't you direct your ire towards Mayor Teller. Though I have an opinion against the Eruv, I am not actively fighting anyone about it. I'm not writing letters, I'm not protesting, I'm not yelling... I just have an opinion. The truth is this isn't a very large issue in my opinion. I'm against it, but if it happens live and let live. Once again, I wish you well even though you call me names.
You are NOT the bigot
davidsline IS
- Navin Jonson
Websters defines bigot as such: "bigot - a prejudiced person who is intolerant of any opinions differing from his own".
The only person I can see here who is intolerant of other peoples opinions is you sir.
"the true contents of our heart emerge when we find difficulty ...more in expressing ourselves."
May God Bless you and give you the courage to stand up for what you believe in without disparaging your fellow man.
קען דיין מוח סאַמדיי זייַן ביגער ווי דיין ביסל פינגער פונ פוס
You are just a A-- hole
Have something to say TRY ENGLISH
GIVE IT A REST
Usually phrases such as "I am not a racist" is often followed by such enlightening proof as "look see how many I have cutting my lawn"
I'm being selfish for having an opinion that differs from yours? Sir, isn't that a bit self righteous? Answer...yes.
From my post above
"The truth is this isn't a very large issue in my opinion. I'm against it, but if it happens live and let live."
That is selfishness in bigotry in your world only davidsline. Your world only.
And this will be my last response to your posts ...more as you just can't come to grips with the idea that there are people out there that just don't agree with you. You attack and label a person based on their opinion and then insist that the world have an open mind to your beliefs. Sorry, that is childish. You need a reality check.
There is no reason not to allow the eruv to be established unless you are a bigot. You guys have no justification to use an argument that an eruv will bring Orthodox Jews into the community. There is no way to explain away this argument, its simple anti-Semitism. Sorry, this has nothing to do with you agreeing ...more with me or not. You guys need to take a good hard look at yourselves in the mirror.
The only argument that doesn’t reek of anti-Semitism is the one set forth by “double standard.” As I mentioned, he can consider himself selfish (however, I would love to know how particular he is with other items affixed to the poles and many other issues). I have also asked “double standard” to justify how the other arguments can be understood as not being blatant anti-Semitism. So far he has avoided this question, but he has no compunctions to label me intolerant for taking them to task on this issue.
Ok your not a bigot
your boring
feel better now?
A. Thank you for allowing me to consider myself selfish as opposed to bigoted. That is very nice of you. I think you like me. (Sarcasm font needed on this board)
B. Some of the comments posted here are anti-semitic. This I do agree with you about. I think it is obvious to most which ones are.
C. I think one person mentioned that an Eruv will result in a wave of Orthodox Jews moving to the area. I disagree ...more with that, and it never entered into my thought process.
D. If you are asking me to defend other's posts I will not. Take it up with them.
E. Your assumptions are mostly incorrect and I am not sure you are reading most of the posts here carefully.
F. Everyone needs to "take a good hard look" at themselves, but somehow you are immune. Lucky you getting to make up all of life's rules.
G. Regardless of how you see it, this is the way many of us see it...an Eruv is used to allow jews to carry articles to temple, and is thus an extension of religious ceremony (or ritual). So to answer your question of would I have a problem if sidewalks and poles were used for other issues, the answer is yes if such use was an extension of religious ceremony or ritual.
H. I fully expect you to find some way to see bigotry in the above.
G. If you want others to respect your beliefs, you must attempt to understand and respect the opinions of others.
I. Can we just disagree and move on now?
I am not going to debate ...more your argument anymore, but I will just add that I can’t for the life of me comprehend how one would take a stand against a string and piece of plastic that does not look and is not a religious symbol if it would be of great help to others.
If you had to choose one person who has posted on this Board who you think would be a good neigher who would it be?
Conversely, if there is one person on this Board who you think would make for a poor neighbor who would it be?
Sometimes people just can't see how they appear to others.
Your right, I may not want to live next to me
You may now join Davidsline as two neighbors I don't want..
Not in my country
My family are from 2 different countries ...do you want me to subject you to my religion?...because I can... .If you want to open the door...one you may not like very much...but I live in town so....
No one....no group...and No one on this stupid board is even hinting that a religion is "subject" or "forced" on anyone. Med up.
If you are insinuating that "subject" means that you see a particular group's symbols than you really need a new life b/c those images and symbols are all around you (try US coinage to start). Existing is one thing...existing and reacting to them is quite another
I'm selling string
The people who live in Westhamton Beach DO NOT WANT IT
You are the BIGOT
Cretin
dolt
ninnymuggin
...have more if you really feel the need to play the schoolyard name game
THE
PEOPLE
WHO
LIVE
IN
WESTHAMPTON BEACH
DO
NOT
WANT IT
so no matter what you say or attorneys from Manhatten that the rabbi brings in will change that
DO
YOU
UNDERSTAND
NOW?
Again, name calling debases your argument. I offered three good put downs but you opted to guy with "comedians" and "fools". Next time I would like to be referred to as a ninnymuggin...just to see you type it.
Davidsline....think honestly about yourself here. The vitriol cast at you has obscured your message. Maybe the fear isn't the eruv itself, but sphincters like you. If you are the self appointed mouthpiece than we can only assume your backers are a bunch of grade A weenies
Tis a shame since th guy in my building actually had a good ideas
Than the Synagogue has not been totally honest
In contrast many people who posted here (most anonymously I concede) have been completely honest.
...just a thought
Peace on Earth?
Think about it!