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Jury deliberations continue in Oddone murder trial

Trying to anticipate any verdict is folly in my opinion. One can argue the testimony until blue in the face -- for both "sides." Yet, the perception of two "sides" here is an uninformed and short-sided one IMO. Justice (the one real "side" -- to stretch that term) will prevail, at least the best justice that humankind has come up with so far.

Juries can surprise.

Fasten seatbelts.

Pray for closure and Peace for ALL family members. The power to forgive is a powerful thing." Dec 5, 09 3:18 PM

Peace on Earth starts here." Dec 7, 09 10:13 AM

Grand love story behind crumbling Gin Lane wall

The homeowner has applied for permission to repair the wall at his expense. The article is on p. 3 of the 12/3 edition of the Press. Now that the hard copy is on the news stands, hopefully they will post the full article here." Dec 7, 09 10:22 AM

Seventh day of deliberations ends with no verdict in Oddone case

HB 4 Life,

You keep over simplifying the testimony. It would appear that clarifying things for you is futile, but here goes.

There was plenty of testimony that Mr. Reister made the first physical move on the defendant. From Mr. Oddone's perspective he was being attacked by a larger man, and he could have REASONABLY feared for his life at that point.

What happened next is open to a variety of interpretations, and the jury will probably reach a conclusion on this in the next few days.

You make the immediate jump in logic (?) that as soon as the perceived threat was over, Oddone should have become 100% rational again, and that murderous "intent" arose, and that is all there is to it !!!

If you were attacked in such a way, do you think your adrenaline would just stop on a dime? Remember the loud music, alcohol, lots of people around etc. etc.

"cut and dry?"

Hardly.

Maybe the hardest thing for people here to handle IMO is that Mr. Reister made the first physical move, in spite of having PLENTY of other options available. [stop the music, call the police, ask for assistance from other bouncers and managers]

If there is ANY "clear cut intent" here it was Mr. Reister's to get physical when he did.

Bad choice, but it HAS to be acknowledged.

If Mr. Reister had followed the proper protocol he would probably be with us today." Dec 7, 09 3:35 PM

Negative -- it was NOT Mr. Reister's job to get physical. No way.

He made a bad choice, and YOU will not acknowledge that. Why?

Yes, Oddone may be guilty of something, but please acknowledge that Reister made a bad choice BEFORE there was any physical violence. You keep skipping over this moment to the tragic conclusion with which we all agree. One step at a time OK?

Just like the jury." Dec 7, 09 5:02 PM

Yes, that is what bouncers are hired for, unfortunately. You seem to accept that "Might makes Right." It does not. Assault is assault, and Mr. Reister made the first assault, according to almost all the evidence as reported here. If this is not correct, please summarize the testimony indicating that Mr. Reister did NOT initiate ANY physical contact.

Bouncers who choose to get physical choose the consequences.

Mr. Reister made a very unfortunate choice, in retrospect. HE INITIATED his own death." Dec 7, 09 5:07 PM

You confuse two factual situations which are entirely different.

Bouncer vs. Police Officer? Two separate discussions. Why do you compare them?

Oddone was not a "perp" and Reister was not a police officer (at the time).

Two entirely different factual scenarios, and each calls for a different analysis and legal discussion." Dec 7, 09 5:10 PM

PS -- the relies above did not get placed exactly under the comments they relate to. The gist is there without further confusing explanation I guess." Dec 7, 09 5:15 PM

elliot,

I did not blame Mr. Reister for his own death. I said he "initiated" it. Slow down maybe and read more carefully.

There is plenty of blame to go around on this tragic incident, but if you can't handle the ALL the truth, then maybe you should not be here." Dec 7, 09 5:18 PM

Sunshine, let's keep this simple.

DId Mr. Reister make the first physical move, or did he not, according to most of the testimony?

If not, in your view, please summarize the testimony on this matter.

Thank you." Dec 7, 09 5:48 PM

elliot,

You have not answered the crucial question. Did Mr. Reister make the first physical move? If not, please summarize the testimony which indicates this.

Thank you." Dec 7, 09 5:50 PM

porter,

I agree with you that a shove off a table does not necessarily justify physical force.

Where did I say it did? ("However twisted you thinking may be.")

Do you agree that Mr. Reister made the first physical move?

Thank you." Dec 7, 09 5:54 PM

To all,

Some tough and unpopular questions are being asked here.

This is what the jury is doing right now!

If you cannot provide rational and calm answers to these questions, if you let your anger mingle in here, can you expect the jury to do better?

Do you want the jury to flail around with their emotions controlling the verdict?

If so, will you accept an "Innocent" verdict because they all got pissed off and wanted to reach a verdict before the Holidays? [Don't laugh, this has probably happened before.]

I challenge you -- post here and reply as rationally as you expect the jury to do, or be willing to accept the consequences of your own angry posts.

Thank you." Dec 7, 09 6:09 PM

Thank you Sunshine for the reply,

I agree that the actions of Mr. Oddone after Mr. Reister's initial assault are subject to a variety of factual interpretations, and legal conclusions.

This is very complicated situation, and the jury will render its justice.

It would be nice in my opinion if everyone here could calm down a little.

Thanks again for a thoughtful reply." Dec 7, 09 6:16 PM

Peace on Earth starts here.

Forgiveness empowers." Dec 7, 09 8:30 PM

Double-D,

See reply posted below at 9:55 or so." Dec 7, 09 9:55 PM

Double-D,

You previously posted about "verbal diahrea."

Did you mean "diarrhea?"

Is this what the "D" in your moniker refers to? The double D?

If you have the intestinal fortitude (no D-word please), please enlighten us.

Did Mr. Reister make the first physical move on Mr. Oddone?

If not, please summarize the testimony now before the jury which indicates this.

Thank you, and I hope you and your family have a joyous Holiday Season.

Thank you.
" Dec 7, 09 10:09 PM

And women!" Dec 7, 09 10:12 PM

elliot,

Did we miss your reply?

I hope you and your family have a joyous Holiday Season.

Peace on Earth to all." Dec 7, 09 10:34 PM

beachgirl,

You quote the media for the Truth? The jury in this case did not get to consult the papers. What about the testimony? That is ALL the jury is considering.

You say that a good bouncer uses his head to diffuse a situation.

DId Mr. Reister do this in your personal opinion?

Did Mr. Reister make the first physical move?

Thank you.

I hope that your and your family have a Joyous Holiday Season." Dec 7, 09 10:50 PM

Thank you beachgirl and maryb123 for your Joyous and Heartfelt Greetings.

Peace on Earth has started.

God Bless." Dec 7, 09 11:32 PM

Check your quotations, they are not where you think they are." Dec 7, 09 11:37 PM

maryb123
beachgirl
HB 4 Life
porter
elliot
AlwaysLocal
Double-D,

This was indeed a tragic event.

I have reviewed the comments from last night, and I don't see any posts from any of you acknowledging that Mr. Reister made the first physical move. Did I miss your posts on this?

Before you reply in haste, please read the posts from last night in which I did say that whatever happened after Mr. Reister's initial assault was open to factual and legal discussion. Yes, Mr. Oddone may be guilty of some crime based on his actions AFTER Mr. Reister CHOSE to assault the defendant.

Let me repeat that, yes, Mr. Oddone may be GUILTY of a crime. I am not excusing or justifying his actions in ANY way. I am simply trying to take the facts one step at a time, in a calm analysis of the chain of causation.

Sunshine at least had the decency to step up to the plate and acknowledge that Mr. Reister made the first physical move.

Can you?" Dec 8, 09 6:42 PM

Thanks FOTO --

It should be pretty easy therefore for everyone to step up to the plate and acknowledge the first physical contact by Mr. Reister.

double-D, please re-read my recent post. I said twice that whatever happened after Mr. Reister chose to make physical contact was open to debate, and that Mr. Oddone may be guilty of a crime." Dec 8, 09 7:25 PM

Disgusted,

Just trying to establish one basic fact at a time, similar to what the jury is doing. A very simple request IMO.

Funny that many commentators cannot step up to the plate regarding what FOTO posted is an accepted fact -- Mr. Reister made the first physical move.

"The Truth Shall Set You Free?"" Dec 8, 09 8:14 PM

Disgusted,

Do you acknowledge that Mr. Reister made the first physical move on Mr. Oddone?

Thank you." Dec 8, 09 8:30 PM

Disgusted,

OK I guess we can take your tacit admission ("Perhaps he nudged him to get down") as a half-hearted acknowledgment that Mr. Reister made the first physical move.

Did you see FOTO's post that the ADA has accepted as fact that Mr. Reister pushed Mr. Oddone off the table? [I assume this is accurate -- no one has challenged it.]

After all this time, if you can't acknowledge the accepted facts (which even the DA accepts), how can we, and the jury, move on?

"nudged" ???

As I have posted MANY times, what happened after the "nudge" is open to all kinds of discussion, and that Mr. Oddone may be guilty of some crime,

But, you must realize IMO that the effort it has taken for you admit to even a "nudge" is part of the problem here.

PS -- You quote Mr. Oddone at the end of your post. Please tell us where this quote comes from.

" Dec 8, 09 9:18 PM

Disgusted,

Please tell us where your quote of Mr. Oddone comes from.

Have you been a victim of physical violence?

Were you mugged or stalked?

Thank you." Dec 8, 09 9:36 PM

Thanks Michael for the updated information in the article tonight." Dec 8, 09 9:49 PM

Thanks, but I doubt if it was actually stated by Mr. Oddone. Perhaps someone else?

Thank you for the reply." Dec 8, 09 9:53 PM

Disgusted,

Thank you. I understand.

Peace on Earth. " Dec 8, 09 10:30 PM

Thank you Publius for posting what you do. It is very informative, and yes I did read the entire instruction about a deadlocked jury. Your comments asking others to imagine what is going on in the jury room are also appreciated. As you hint, consider trying to get twelve people picked randomly from this forum to agree on a conviction of any kind.

The jury here does have a difficult task before it, and it appears to be doing a mature and thoughtful job. Hopefully the instruction you posted will not be necessary, but it is a good thing to read it ahead of time if it is required.

BTW it was not entirely clear that the lower 2/3 of your post was a quote from the jury instructions book, and quoting only part of it would not have made sense IMO. Could you post a link for locating the jury instructions online, if available? Thanks.

Also, Michael Wright has posted a new article today." Dec 9, 09 11:10 AM

HB 4 -- Michael Wright has posted a new article today. I don't think the link to it is above yet." Dec 9, 09 11:11 AM

Here is the new article.

http://www.27east.com/story_detail.cfm?id=250924&town=Southampton&n=Oddone%20Jury%20a%20week%20into%20deliberations

" Dec 9, 09 11:51 AM

Newsday just reported that the jury asked for testimony to be read back to them, of a bar patron who said Mr. Oddone lost his balance and fell off the table.

" Dec 9, 09 1:51 PM

So elliot, you are acknowledging that Mr. Reister made the first physical move?" Dec 9, 09 2:37 PM

Oddone jury a week into deliberations

Ditto." Dec 9, 09 3:03 PM

Seventh day of deliberations ends with no verdict in Oddone case

beachgirl,

Thank you for your post.

In a quick review of the articles here I have found two instances in which witnesses say that Mr. Reister made the first physical move.

10/28 article -- Goucher is witness ("shoved")
11/30 article -- Cohen is witness (friend also testifies) ("knocked the guy to the ground . . . extremely aggressive . . . inappropriate")


This is one of the factual issues which the jury must resolve, of course, and they seem to be doing a thorough job. Hopefully this trial will be over fairly soon, with a verdict which resolves this phase of a tragic event.
" Dec 9, 09 6:32 PM

Seventh day of deliberations ends with no verdict in Oddone case

Could this be the beginning of the end of deliberations?" Dec 10, 09 1:26 PM

PS -- above was in reply to Joe Shaw's comment only." Dec 10, 09 1:27 PM

fix-it

Good point, but for someone with verbal cojones the standards might differ?

Hopefully the jury will render a verdict soon.

Peace on Earth for both families." Dec 10, 09 4:40 PM

Multiple screen names? ALL CAP postings and screen names?" Dec 10, 09 6:55 PM

Multiple screen names? ALL CAP postings and screen names? " Dec 10, 09 6:55 PM

Peace on Earth.

Christmas is two weeks from tomorrow.

Think about it. " Dec 10, 09 8:14 PM

maryb,

Thank you for the best laugh I have had all day -- you giving username advice to help her with her anger.

Priceless!

Seems as if your kind and generous heart could help out Publius too.


Maybe everyone here could calm down a little?

Peace on Earth." Dec 11, 09 1:58 PM

maryb,

Publius has spoken -- go get him!

"Yowza" indeed." Dec 11, 09 3:12 PM

Publius,

Sorry I could not resist the comment above to maryb.

Good point you raise. If there is a conviction here on one of the lesser charges, and the defense files an appeal, should not Mr. Oddone be released on bail pending appeal?

Thanks again for posting the statutes, and your comments." Dec 11, 09 3:16 PM

Deliberations in Oddone trial resume Monday with testimony reread to jury

Nice work Michael through all of this.

Partial verdict that Murder 2 is out, and a hung jury on the rest, equals acquital for now and a re-trial on the lesser charges only.

How is that going to sit here?

Fasten seatbelts." Dec 11, 09 5:33 PM

Seventh day of deliberations ends with no verdict in Oddone case

New article.

Possible hung jury. " Dec 11, 09 6:05 PM

Deliberations in Oddone trial resume Monday with testimony reread to jury

In the calm of this weekend, perhaps everyone can take a deep breath, and realize that the truth of what actually happened in the Publick House, especially in the minds of Mr. Oddone and Mr. Reister, may never be fully known.

The increasingly simplistic points of view here are not getting anyone anywhere. The case is in the hands of the jury, and we will be lucky IMO to receive ANY verdict at all. Moreover, I can only picture the family members reading this board, and thinking something like, "Oh my, if the jury is this polarized and emotional, how will justice ever be served for ANY of us?"

Life is complicated, and this tragic incident reflects the complexity of life. If you want a simple solution to this case, you may be in the wrong place and time IMO.

One simple analysis presented recently is that, if Mr. Oddone had just gotten off the table when asked, Mr. Reister would probably still be alive.

OK, if one wants simple solutions here is another one. If Mr. Reister had not made the first physical move, he would probably be alive today to enjoy the holidays.

See, simple answers are not really that helpful, are they?

Peace on Earth begins in the heart of each of us." Dec 12, 09 2:39 PM

ELECTRICUTIONER and zeke,

Are you suggesting that some form of physical violence directed at Mr. Oddone would be justified in the future, even if the jury acquits him of all charges?" Dec 12, 09 4:47 PM

Thank you Disgusted, and Merry Christmas to you." Dec 12, 09 4:48 PM

Seventh day of deliberations ends with no verdict in Oddone case

maryb,

"It's about justice for a dead man and his loved ones." ????

And justice for Mr. Oddone? Or has justice been banned for him by royal decree?

I can't imagine what your reaction might be to an Acquittal on all charges!" Dec 13, 09 1:42 PM

Deliberations in Oddone trial resume Monday with testimony reread to jury

Thank you Joe Shaw and Michael Wright for an outstanding job of reporting, especially for a weekly paper. Well done.

Fasten seat belts!" Dec 13, 09 1:44 PM

Disgusted,

One could also go to the trial and support Truth and Justice IMO, not a "side," eh?

Do you really think that one side is "right" and the other "wrong?"

Is the world really that black and white, consisting of diametrically opposed truths only one of which is correct?" Dec 14, 09 9:06 AM

HB 4 Life,

Your point has been taken, and re-taken, any times.

Mr. Shaw has apologized for the error, also many times.

Life is not perfect. Errors are made. Have you ever made one?

Any chance you could move on?

Peace on Earth includes Forgiveness?

Thank you." Dec 14, 09 1:44 PM

Seventh day of deliberations ends with no verdict in Oddone case

BeachMuse,

I would say that you are in the factual ballpark with which the jury is now struggling. The lesser charge based on recklessness (?) is also on the table IMO.

Your two posts delve deeper into the inner-most workings of Mr. Oddone's mind at the very moment of intense struggle, and they are IMO a good example of what the jury has been struggling with. In contrast most posters here have not taken the time to examine this crucial moment as deeply as you.

Nothing in life is simple, let alone what took place in the minds of both men at the Publick House that night in the crucial split seconds of the burst of each men's violent energy.

I imagine that each of them, and their families, wish that they could take this moment back.

BTW there is a newer article you might want to check ("Deliberations Resume in Oddone Trial Monday . . . .")." Dec 14, 09 5:06 PM

Deliberations in Oddone trial resume Monday with testimony reread to jury

Verdict reached. See new article." Dec 14, 09 5:19 PM

Seventh day of deliberations ends with no verdict in Oddone case

Verdict reached. See new article." Dec 14, 09 5:19 PM

Oddone guilty of first-degree manslaughter, jury announces Monday

Thank you Michael for being constantly on top of this. Well done." Dec 14, 09 5:22 PM

Deliberations in Oddone trial resume Monday with testimony reread to jury

Press scoops Newsday. Well done." Dec 14, 09 5:26 PM

U.S. Representive Tim Bishop details new initiatives

Thank you Tim for focusing on the helicopter noise issue. Well done. Now for some action by the FAA and local governments.

In particular IMO, the incoming East Hampton Town Board should re-evaluate the propriety of giving up local control of the East Hampton airport to the FAA." Dec 14, 09 5:41 PM

Oddone guilty of first-degree manslaughter, jury announces Monday

Justice is served by the jury verdict. All other possible verdicts were always on the table, and a "slam-dunk" conviction or acquittal was never certain.

The jury has spoken. Its decision is Justice in action.

The wildly emotional positions taken here are only that.

Peace on Earth." Dec 14, 09 6:25 PM

Thank you to the jury for their diligence and thoroughness." Dec 14, 09 6:34 PM

Sam,

The term "murderer" is generally used as a legal conclusion, which the jury rejected here.

mcy957 used the term "killer" which is not a legal conclusion. Perhaps this fits the bill?" Dec 14, 09 7:05 PM

username1,

Just curious, do you feel that your comment is really in the spirit of forgiveness and compassion for the Holidays?

Peace on Earth." Dec 14, 09 7:53 PM

"Peace on Earth" to you too!" Dec 14, 09 7:57 PM

Juror 2,

Has it occurred to you that your comment may be the basis for a successful appeal? How was the hesitant juror "forced" to agree to the verdict?

Loose lips sink ships?" Dec 14, 09 9:42 PM

Juror 2,

Thank you for your service on the jury and dedication to Justice for all.

Thank you for your posts clarifying how the hesitant juror (#3) “was forced to answer the questions of the other jurors and finally faced the truth.” Yes, you are correct, in my summary of this, I took a shortcut to say that she was forced to accept the MS verdict, and that was not literally correct. (And thanks to itsamazing for clarifying this also.)

So I apologize for taking a hasty shortcut, however, IMO if you “force” a person to accept facts which NECESSARILY lead to a legal conclusion of Manslaughter, you have in effect “forced” the verdict. That is how I meant it.

The real question is – how voluntary was Juror #3’s acceptance of these facts? Or, what was the climate like in the jury room during that final session? Was it, Juror 2, as calm, productive and rational as you make it out to be? You have reported on that final couple of hours as YOU remember them, but I would be curious to know how Juror #3 would characterize being “forced” to accept certain facts.

My main concern, however, has more to do with the tone of your original post from 9:13 PM on 9/14, which is the context for YOUR use of the word “forced.”

Note these phrases:

“last-ditch effort by this weak defense at a mistrial.”

“I couldn't take it anymore”

“she already spearheaded the demise of the first two jurors - I was next. Fortunately, the judge didn't fall for it.”

“So to Ms. Kedia, Juror #3, and Alternate Juror (who carpooled with Juror #3) - KISS MY &^%!!”


These are all direct quotes (copy and paste) from your comment. The last one is a real kicker of attitude, would you not say?

Do these statements of yours sound as if they come from a person who was productively and calmly discussing the facts with Juror #3? Hardly IMO! They suggest that your use of the word “forced” meant exactly what every reasonable person would take it to mean. That you may have forced acceptance of facts, as opposed to a verdict, is of little import if Juror #3 did not freely accept them, and if those facts necessarily lead to a conviction of Manslaughter.


I would guess that you and Juror #3 may have an opportunity to give your respective versions of things under oath at some point, to include all possible instances of juror misconduct including improper communication with the judge. A defense request for an evidentiary hearing on these issues would not be out of the question IMO.


A couple of other points -- way above you take the ad hominem attack mode, and accuse me of being a friend of defense counsel, or a defense attorney. Neither is the case. Why after a day here in this forum, you have to attack the messenger makes one wonder once again how you really meant “forced.” Let’s stick to a discussion of the issues, not one’s friendships, profession, or which “side” one is on here, OK? This tragic event affected lots of lives unfortunately.

Also, in a previous reply about whether you had read anything about this case before being on the jury, and you said in reply to the commentator “open mind,” “I read NOTHING before the case and it killed me.”

If you did not know you were going to be on a jury, how could you have had the foresight NOT to read about this case during the entire year before the trial? You probably did not mean this, but a clarification would be appreciated, especially about how much you read about the event at the Publick House right after it happened, and when you STOPPED reading the news after you were on the jury.

When you swore under oath that you had no pre-conceptions about guilt or innocence, were you being 100% truthful?

100%?

Thanks again for your posts, and your dedication to Justice being served.

Peace on Earth for All.

" Dec 15, 09 5:51 PM

maryb123,

At 6:25 last night, posted these comments:

"Justice is served by the jury verdict. ...... The jury has spoken. Its decision is Justice in action."
______________________________________________________

In many other comments here, I always said that whatever happened after Mr. Reister made the first physical move was open to factual and legal discussion.

I also suggested that "killer" might be an appropriate term to use, rather than "murderer." Do you recall this?

You say I am biased. Please explain the factual basis for your comment.

Was there anything unclear about the questions I asked of Juror 2? If not, she is free to post her reply -- or not.

I am "over it," are you?" Dec 15, 09 9:54 PM

I assume my post was deleted because it contained a link to yesterday's Newsday article in which Juror #3 is quoted as confirming Juror 2's comments about the final hours of jury deliberation before the MS verdict.

maryb referred to this above also.

About the tough questions I asked of Juror 2 -- they HAD to be asked IMO, and now they have been answered more or less. Even the appearance of impropriety in the jury deliberations bears further discussion. This is our right, indeed our duty, as citizens in a free society." Dec 16, 09 9:58 AM

I just bought the Press. Great new article Michael -- sorry Juror 2 was not willing to talk with you. If you could interview Juror #3 (Ms. Oka, according to another publication) at some point, that would be a great follow-up piece IMO. Keep calling Juror 2 too. She was so outspoken here (nice of you NOT to quote her "eloquent" statement about Juror #3). Why the silence now?

There is nothing like holding the real paper in one's hands, the smell of the ink, the larger type and graphics, compared to this site. 27east is a fine site, and so is the Press. Different functions IMO. Letters to the Editor, the classifieds, legal advertisements, easy navigation to old familiar sections and layouts, etc. -- all well worth the price of the hard copy bright and early Thursday mornings.

Michael, I hope you are going to take some well-deserved time off (with extra pay!) during the holidays. You really did a yeoman's job with the Oddone trial.

Have a good weekend.

PS -- Hopefully this site will post the full article here in the next couple of days. I am happy to pay a buck for the real thing on Thursdays. Some people apparently don't realize that "you get what you pay for!"" Dec 17, 09 10:36 AM

EQUALIZER,

The decision for Mr. Oddone not to testify would have been made by his defense attorney and Mr. Oddone, and would not be reviewable on appeal, unless a new appellate attorney uses as one basis for appeal, "Ineffective Assistance of Counsel," which I would doubt very much would apply here.

Juror Misconduct may be another more fruitful avenue for appeal, or for evidentiary hearings in the near future IMO." Dec 17, 09 2:47 PM

Peace on Earth for All" Dec 17, 09 8:51 PM

East End still digging out after record snow

Yo !!!

Peace on Earth begins with your next comment, folks." Dec 20, 09 2:04 PM

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