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Seventh day of deliberations ends with no verdict in Oddone case

Disgusted,

Thank you. I understand.

Peace on Earth. " Dec 8, 09 10:30 PM

Thank you Publius for posting what you do. It is very informative, and yes I did read the entire instruction about a deadlocked jury. Your comments asking others to imagine what is going on in the jury room are also appreciated. As you hint, consider trying to get twelve people picked randomly from this forum to agree on a conviction of any kind.

The jury here does have a difficult task before it, and it appears to be doing a mature and thoughtful job. Hopefully the instruction you posted will not be necessary, but it is a good thing to read it ahead of time if it is required.

BTW it was not entirely clear that the lower 2/3 of your post was a quote from the jury instructions book, and quoting only part of it would not have made sense IMO. Could you post a link for locating the jury instructions online, if available? Thanks.

Also, Michael Wright has posted a new article today." Dec 9, 09 11:10 AM

HB 4 -- Michael Wright has posted a new article today. I don't think the link to it is above yet." Dec 9, 09 11:11 AM

Here is the new article.

http://www.27east.com/story_detail.cfm?id=250924&town=Southampton&n=Oddone%20Jury%20a%20week%20into%20deliberations

" Dec 9, 09 11:51 AM

Newsday just reported that the jury asked for testimony to be read back to them, of a bar patron who said Mr. Oddone lost his balance and fell off the table.

" Dec 9, 09 1:51 PM

So elliot, you are acknowledging that Mr. Reister made the first physical move?" Dec 9, 09 2:37 PM

Oddone jury a week into deliberations

Ditto." Dec 9, 09 3:03 PM

Seventh day of deliberations ends with no verdict in Oddone case

beachgirl,

Thank you for your post.

In a quick review of the articles here I have found two instances in which witnesses say that Mr. Reister made the first physical move.

10/28 article -- Goucher is witness ("shoved")
11/30 article -- Cohen is witness (friend also testifies) ("knocked the guy to the ground . . . extremely aggressive . . . inappropriate")


This is one of the factual issues which the jury must resolve, of course, and they seem to be doing a thorough job. Hopefully this trial will be over fairly soon, with a verdict which resolves this phase of a tragic event.
" Dec 9, 09 6:32 PM

Seventh day of deliberations ends with no verdict in Oddone case

Could this be the beginning of the end of deliberations?" Dec 10, 09 1:26 PM

PS -- above was in reply to Joe Shaw's comment only." Dec 10, 09 1:27 PM

fix-it

Good point, but for someone with verbal cojones the standards might differ?

Hopefully the jury will render a verdict soon.

Peace on Earth for both families." Dec 10, 09 4:40 PM

Multiple screen names? ALL CAP postings and screen names?" Dec 10, 09 6:55 PM

Multiple screen names? ALL CAP postings and screen names? " Dec 10, 09 6:55 PM

Peace on Earth.

Christmas is two weeks from tomorrow.

Think about it. " Dec 10, 09 8:14 PM

maryb,

Thank you for the best laugh I have had all day -- you giving username advice to help her with her anger.

Priceless!

Seems as if your kind and generous heart could help out Publius too.


Maybe everyone here could calm down a little?

Peace on Earth." Dec 11, 09 1:58 PM

maryb,

Publius has spoken -- go get him!

"Yowza" indeed." Dec 11, 09 3:12 PM

Publius,

Sorry I could not resist the comment above to maryb.

Good point you raise. If there is a conviction here on one of the lesser charges, and the defense files an appeal, should not Mr. Oddone be released on bail pending appeal?

Thanks again for posting the statutes, and your comments." Dec 11, 09 3:16 PM

Deliberations in Oddone trial resume Monday with testimony reread to jury

Nice work Michael through all of this.

Partial verdict that Murder 2 is out, and a hung jury on the rest, equals acquital for now and a re-trial on the lesser charges only.

How is that going to sit here?

Fasten seatbelts." Dec 11, 09 5:33 PM

Seventh day of deliberations ends with no verdict in Oddone case

New article.

Possible hung jury. " Dec 11, 09 6:05 PM

Deliberations in Oddone trial resume Monday with testimony reread to jury

In the calm of this weekend, perhaps everyone can take a deep breath, and realize that the truth of what actually happened in the Publick House, especially in the minds of Mr. Oddone and Mr. Reister, may never be fully known.

The increasingly simplistic points of view here are not getting anyone anywhere. The case is in the hands of the jury, and we will be lucky IMO to receive ANY verdict at all. Moreover, I can only picture the family members reading this board, and thinking something like, "Oh my, if the jury is this polarized and emotional, how will justice ever be served for ANY of us?"

Life is complicated, and this tragic incident reflects the complexity of life. If you want a simple solution to this case, you may be in the wrong place and time IMO.

One simple analysis presented recently is that, if Mr. Oddone had just gotten off the table when asked, Mr. Reister would probably still be alive.

OK, if one wants simple solutions here is another one. If Mr. Reister had not made the first physical move, he would probably be alive today to enjoy the holidays.

See, simple answers are not really that helpful, are they?

Peace on Earth begins in the heart of each of us." Dec 12, 09 2:39 PM

ELECTRICUTIONER and zeke,

Are you suggesting that some form of physical violence directed at Mr. Oddone would be justified in the future, even if the jury acquits him of all charges?" Dec 12, 09 4:47 PM

Thank you Disgusted, and Merry Christmas to you." Dec 12, 09 4:48 PM

Seventh day of deliberations ends with no verdict in Oddone case

maryb,

"It's about justice for a dead man and his loved ones." ????

And justice for Mr. Oddone? Or has justice been banned for him by royal decree?

I can't imagine what your reaction might be to an Acquittal on all charges!" Dec 13, 09 1:42 PM

Deliberations in Oddone trial resume Monday with testimony reread to jury

Thank you Joe Shaw and Michael Wright for an outstanding job of reporting, especially for a weekly paper. Well done.

Fasten seat belts!" Dec 13, 09 1:44 PM

Disgusted,

One could also go to the trial and support Truth and Justice IMO, not a "side," eh?

Do you really think that one side is "right" and the other "wrong?"

Is the world really that black and white, consisting of diametrically opposed truths only one of which is correct?" Dec 14, 09 9:06 AM

HB 4 Life,

Your point has been taken, and re-taken, any times.

Mr. Shaw has apologized for the error, also many times.

Life is not perfect. Errors are made. Have you ever made one?

Any chance you could move on?

Peace on Earth includes Forgiveness?

Thank you." Dec 14, 09 1:44 PM

Seventh day of deliberations ends with no verdict in Oddone case

BeachMuse,

I would say that you are in the factual ballpark with which the jury is now struggling. The lesser charge based on recklessness (?) is also on the table IMO.

Your two posts delve deeper into the inner-most workings of Mr. Oddone's mind at the very moment of intense struggle, and they are IMO a good example of what the jury has been struggling with. In contrast most posters here have not taken the time to examine this crucial moment as deeply as you.

Nothing in life is simple, let alone what took place in the minds of both men at the Publick House that night in the crucial split seconds of the burst of each men's violent energy.

I imagine that each of them, and their families, wish that they could take this moment back.

BTW there is a newer article you might want to check ("Deliberations Resume in Oddone Trial Monday . . . .")." Dec 14, 09 5:06 PM

Deliberations in Oddone trial resume Monday with testimony reread to jury

Verdict reached. See new article." Dec 14, 09 5:19 PM

Seventh day of deliberations ends with no verdict in Oddone case

Verdict reached. See new article." Dec 14, 09 5:19 PM

Oddone guilty of first-degree manslaughter, jury announces Monday

Thank you Michael for being constantly on top of this. Well done." Dec 14, 09 5:22 PM

Deliberations in Oddone trial resume Monday with testimony reread to jury

Press scoops Newsday. Well done." Dec 14, 09 5:26 PM

U.S. Representive Tim Bishop details new initiatives

Thank you Tim for focusing on the helicopter noise issue. Well done. Now for some action by the FAA and local governments.

In particular IMO, the incoming East Hampton Town Board should re-evaluate the propriety of giving up local control of the East Hampton airport to the FAA." Dec 14, 09 5:41 PM

Oddone guilty of first-degree manslaughter, jury announces Monday

Justice is served by the jury verdict. All other possible verdicts were always on the table, and a "slam-dunk" conviction or acquittal was never certain.

The jury has spoken. Its decision is Justice in action.

The wildly emotional positions taken here are only that.

Peace on Earth." Dec 14, 09 6:25 PM

Thank you to the jury for their diligence and thoroughness." Dec 14, 09 6:34 PM

Sam,

The term "murderer" is generally used as a legal conclusion, which the jury rejected here.

mcy957 used the term "killer" which is not a legal conclusion. Perhaps this fits the bill?" Dec 14, 09 7:05 PM

username1,

Just curious, do you feel that your comment is really in the spirit of forgiveness and compassion for the Holidays?

Peace on Earth." Dec 14, 09 7:53 PM

"Peace on Earth" to you too!" Dec 14, 09 7:57 PM

Juror 2,

Has it occurred to you that your comment may be the basis for a successful appeal? How was the hesitant juror "forced" to agree to the verdict?

Loose lips sink ships?" Dec 14, 09 9:42 PM

Juror 2,

Thank you for your service on the jury and dedication to Justice for all.

Thank you for your posts clarifying how the hesitant juror (#3) “was forced to answer the questions of the other jurors and finally faced the truth.” Yes, you are correct, in my summary of this, I took a shortcut to say that she was forced to accept the MS verdict, and that was not literally correct. (And thanks to itsamazing for clarifying this also.)

So I apologize for taking a hasty shortcut, however, IMO if you “force” a person to accept facts which NECESSARILY lead to a legal conclusion of Manslaughter, you have in effect “forced” the verdict. That is how I meant it.

The real question is – how voluntary was Juror #3’s acceptance of these facts? Or, what was the climate like in the jury room during that final session? Was it, Juror 2, as calm, productive and rational as you make it out to be? You have reported on that final couple of hours as YOU remember them, but I would be curious to know how Juror #3 would characterize being “forced” to accept certain facts.

My main concern, however, has more to do with the tone of your original post from 9:13 PM on 9/14, which is the context for YOUR use of the word “forced.”

Note these phrases:

“last-ditch effort by this weak defense at a mistrial.”

“I couldn't take it anymore”

“she already spearheaded the demise of the first two jurors - I was next. Fortunately, the judge didn't fall for it.”

“So to Ms. Kedia, Juror #3, and Alternate Juror (who carpooled with Juror #3) - KISS MY &^%!!”


These are all direct quotes (copy and paste) from your comment. The last one is a real kicker of attitude, would you not say?

Do these statements of yours sound as if they come from a person who was productively and calmly discussing the facts with Juror #3? Hardly IMO! They suggest that your use of the word “forced” meant exactly what every reasonable person would take it to mean. That you may have forced acceptance of facts, as opposed to a verdict, is of little import if Juror #3 did not freely accept them, and if those facts necessarily lead to a conviction of Manslaughter.


I would guess that you and Juror #3 may have an opportunity to give your respective versions of things under oath at some point, to include all possible instances of juror misconduct including improper communication with the judge. A defense request for an evidentiary hearing on these issues would not be out of the question IMO.


A couple of other points -- way above you take the ad hominem attack mode, and accuse me of being a friend of defense counsel, or a defense attorney. Neither is the case. Why after a day here in this forum, you have to attack the messenger makes one wonder once again how you really meant “forced.” Let’s stick to a discussion of the issues, not one’s friendships, profession, or which “side” one is on here, OK? This tragic event affected lots of lives unfortunately.

Also, in a previous reply about whether you had read anything about this case before being on the jury, and you said in reply to the commentator “open mind,” “I read NOTHING before the case and it killed me.”

If you did not know you were going to be on a jury, how could you have had the foresight NOT to read about this case during the entire year before the trial? You probably did not mean this, but a clarification would be appreciated, especially about how much you read about the event at the Publick House right after it happened, and when you STOPPED reading the news after you were on the jury.

When you swore under oath that you had no pre-conceptions about guilt or innocence, were you being 100% truthful?

100%?

Thanks again for your posts, and your dedication to Justice being served.

Peace on Earth for All.

" Dec 15, 09 5:51 PM

maryb123,

At 6:25 last night, posted these comments:

"Justice is served by the jury verdict. ...... The jury has spoken. Its decision is Justice in action."
______________________________________________________

In many other comments here, I always said that whatever happened after Mr. Reister made the first physical move was open to factual and legal discussion.

I also suggested that "killer" might be an appropriate term to use, rather than "murderer." Do you recall this?

You say I am biased. Please explain the factual basis for your comment.

Was there anything unclear about the questions I asked of Juror 2? If not, she is free to post her reply -- or not.

I am "over it," are you?" Dec 15, 09 9:54 PM

I assume my post was deleted because it contained a link to yesterday's Newsday article in which Juror #3 is quoted as confirming Juror 2's comments about the final hours of jury deliberation before the MS verdict.

maryb referred to this above also.

About the tough questions I asked of Juror 2 -- they HAD to be asked IMO, and now they have been answered more or less. Even the appearance of impropriety in the jury deliberations bears further discussion. This is our right, indeed our duty, as citizens in a free society." Dec 16, 09 9:58 AM

I just bought the Press. Great new article Michael -- sorry Juror 2 was not willing to talk with you. If you could interview Juror #3 (Ms. Oka, according to another publication) at some point, that would be a great follow-up piece IMO. Keep calling Juror 2 too. She was so outspoken here (nice of you NOT to quote her "eloquent" statement about Juror #3). Why the silence now?

There is nothing like holding the real paper in one's hands, the smell of the ink, the larger type and graphics, compared to this site. 27east is a fine site, and so is the Press. Different functions IMO. Letters to the Editor, the classifieds, legal advertisements, easy navigation to old familiar sections and layouts, etc. -- all well worth the price of the hard copy bright and early Thursday mornings.

Michael, I hope you are going to take some well-deserved time off (with extra pay!) during the holidays. You really did a yeoman's job with the Oddone trial.

Have a good weekend.

PS -- Hopefully this site will post the full article here in the next couple of days. I am happy to pay a buck for the real thing on Thursdays. Some people apparently don't realize that "you get what you pay for!"" Dec 17, 09 10:36 AM

EQUALIZER,

The decision for Mr. Oddone not to testify would have been made by his defense attorney and Mr. Oddone, and would not be reviewable on appeal, unless a new appellate attorney uses as one basis for appeal, "Ineffective Assistance of Counsel," which I would doubt very much would apply here.

Juror Misconduct may be another more fruitful avenue for appeal, or for evidentiary hearings in the near future IMO." Dec 17, 09 2:47 PM

Peace on Earth for All" Dec 17, 09 8:51 PM

East End still digging out after record snow

Yo !!!

Peace on Earth begins with your next comment, folks." Dec 20, 09 2:04 PM

Blizzard snarls life on the East End

The hardest hit roads (Scuttlehole Rd. in Water Mill and Bridgehampton for instance) did NOT have snow fencing put in the fields this year, or in the last few years as I recall.

It may be time to re-consider whether the cost savings of NOT doing the fencing is a real savings, or in the case of this year, an illusion. Add up the overtime pay for plowing so much (plus payloaders having to be used in many places), and I bet the excessive costs would pay for a couple of years of putting the fencing up and taking it down in the spring.

Penny-wise and pound-foolish Town budgets may be to blame also. Additional capital expenditures and hiring may be necessary. With tax revenues down, the pinch may continue IMO.

Peace on Earth!" Dec 24, 09 10:37 AM

Thank you NorthSeaNative for the informative post, and thank you to the Highway Dept. for clearing the roads within the limits of their human endurance, manpower staffing, and equipment limitations. Well done!

If the wood in the snow fences was causing bacterial/disease problems for the farmers, then perhaps we should switch to a different material, because the fencing to the north of the problem roads sure did alleviate the drifting IMO.

Perhaps the new Town Board under the leadership of Ana Throne-Holst can implement measures supportive of the Highway Department.

Peace on Earth." Dec 26, 09 3:52 PM

INS,

I agree that the results were bad, but simply making a blanket accusation of failure does not get us started in the right direction for finding a solution and better results the next time.

It would appear that the highway department needs more/better equipment, and probably more personnel (maybe temporary help in addition to the subcontractors?) to handle the next comparable storm. This solution must of necessity be a political one, and I assume the new administration will take office in the middle of a blizzard of complaints! Finding the funds for a complete solution may be difficult, given the state of the Town budget.

What would your constructive suggestions be for a better result the next time?

What type of snow fencing would work, without creating bacterial problems for the farmers?" Dec 28, 09 7:31 AM

Southampton Town Board delays reorganization meeting

Whoa, this is a pretty inauspicious start to the new administration.

Wasn't the 1/5/10 1 PM meeting on the town calendar for a while?

Who is out of town, and can't make it tomorrow? Are we paying people to miss very important organizational meetings because of a personal scheduling conflict? What's up?

The press release mentioned above is not on the Town site yet. Wonder if it gives any reason for this SNAFU?

Come on Anna, grab the reins!" Jan 4, 10 2:53 PM

mammadukes,

My comment was not at all directed at Anna. I assume she is fully ready to meet tomorrow.

Rather, I am wondering who else is unable to attend tomorrow? Could this (sudden unavailability) be the first shot across the bow by the anti-ATH crowd?

I fully support Anna Throne-Holst and her efforts to change the course of the ship of state of Southampton Town.

highhatsize makes a good point in general IMO, as the recent record (regarding the Town Board recognizing that they work for US) leaves something to be desired.

I challenge all Town Board members to post on this site (or release their own press releases) explaining why they can't make tomorrow's meeting.

Happy New Year!" Jan 4, 10 7:50 PM

PS -- still no press releases on this on the Town site.

http://www.town.southampton.ny.us/agendas_and_psas.ihtml


How is the public to be informed when a meeting is changed, if press releases are not posted immediately?

Editor -- could you please post the text of the press release postponing the meeting?

Take the reins, Anna!" Jan 4, 10 8:03 PM

The next Town Board meeting listed is for 1 PM on Tuesday 1/12, not this Friday per the article above.

http://www.town.southampton.ny.us/calendar.ihtml#:caltarg

The meeting for today has been removed from the calendar. No press release on Town site." Jan 5, 10 10:28 AM

Thanks Brendan for the press release. Note that this was issued by ATH on 12/28/09 before she was officially sworn in, a proactive and thoughtful move to give everyone notice.

Now is the time for the Town to issue its own official press release on its website, AND to add the Friday 1/7/10 meeting to the Town Calendar." Jan 5, 10 5:15 PM

Whoops, Friday is 1/8/10." Jan 5, 10 5:17 PM

The PDF press release by ATH was issued on 12/28/09.

Which member(s) of the Town Board knew, over one week in advance (therefore not weather related), that he or she could not make the organizational meeting scheduled for 1 PM today?

Please identify yourself and post your reasons for delaying the organizational meeting to Friday 1/8 or Tuesday 1/12, whichever it is. Please issue official press release on the town site, and update the meeting calendar and Board agenda at your earliest convenience.

Thank you, and Happy New Year, I guess." Jan 5, 10 6:31 PM

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