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Story - News

Aug 30, 2013 7:17 PMPublication: The Southampton Press

Tim Bishop Weighs In On Possible U.S. Military Strike Against Syria

Sep 3, 2013 4:21 PM

At about 1 p.m. on Labor Day, U.S. Representative Tim Bishop had just finished an hour-long unclassified phone briefing by members of the Obama administration on the situation in Syria.

Mr. Bishop and other members of the Democratic Caucus were briefed that day by U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel, Director of National Intelligence James R. Clapper and National Security Advisor Susan Rice. The congressman said it had raised his “level of confidence in terms of the quality and accuracy of the intelligence” behind the Obama administration’s assertion that Syrian government used chemical weapons against its own citizens on August 21, killing more than 1,400 people, including 426 children, in the suburbs of Damascus.

Still, considering the public’s deception about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in 2003, and the fact that the Iraq war is only now coming to an end, Mr. Bishop said he wanted to be absolutely certain.

“We need to have an absolutely unequivocal assurance that this attack was carried out by the Assad regime,” he said.

Mr. Bishop said he also needs assurance that any attack would be quick and targeted and that “our engagement would not be lengthy ... no boots-on-the-ground commitment.” The concern that there would be collateral damage of innocents was also on his mind.

Last week, President Obama announced his intention to launch a limited military strike against Syria, then, over the weekend, he announced that he instead would seek authorization from Congress, which is out of session until Monday, September 9.

Administration officials have been briefing and lobbying members of Congress since then, and by Tuesday they had picked up support from House Speaker John A. Boehner and several other Republicans, with scheduled appearances to testify before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and the House Foreign Affairs Committee on Tuesday and Wednesday.

“The members of Congress are very interested in getting as much information as they possibly can, and I include myself in this group,” Mr. Bishop said on Monday. Anecdotally, his constituents seem to be split, with some saying the United States cannot police the world, and others saying the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad must face consequences.

“The use of chemical weapons is absolutely reprehensible,” Mr. Bishop said, adding that there have been norms against them since World War I. “So the question is, what is the best possible response that could make it clear that the international community does not condone such behavior?”

“Does the international community, led by the U.S., allow a two-bit dictator to flout international norms?” he asked. “Does that give greater likelihood to other countries using those weapons at some future time?”

However, Mr. Bishop said, the war in Iraq should never have been fought, and the one in Afghanistan “has gone on way too long.” The former took a toll on this country’s standing in the international community, financially and on several thousand families who lost a loved one or saw one come back with an injury, the congressman pointed out.

Mr. Bishop predicted that the “absolute earliest” that Congress would vote on a military strike would be on Wednesday, September 11, after having Tuesday and much of that Wednesday to review documents, including classified ones, in Washington, D.C. It was “unthinkable” that President Obama would act before then, Mr. Bishop said.

“There is no easy answer,” he said. “There’s no such thing as a good option.”

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I think that even a limited strike is pointless. Reports from Damascus are that the Assad regime has already evacuated all the command and control centers and the military depots that might be targets. Our cruise missiles would hit empty buildings. Those pictures of all the children murdered in the gas attack are devastating but bombing Damascus won't make a jot of difference in Assad's behavior.. Finally, there is no indication that the rebels like us any more than the Assad regime does. Why ...more
By highhatsize (3930), East Quogue on Aug 30, 13 8:15 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By TheTurtle (138), Southampton on Aug 30, 13 9:14 PM
HHS are you suggesting that NOTHING should be done when this kind of use of chemical weapons (by either "side") occurs?

How many times would you let an event like this take place, without some "feedback?"
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 1, 13 7:07 AM
Finally an ON-TOPIC article for the long weekend to let the political rants rage!
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Aug 30, 13 8:26 PM
1 member liked this comment
Wow Tim, what a wishy washy statement...yes but if on the other hand...Stick to getting fireworks permits for your political patrons...
By V.Tomanoku (694), southampton on Aug 30, 13 10:20 PM
1 member liked this comment
Get over it! This is important,
By SHNative (554), Southampton on Aug 31, 13 8:06 AM
1 member liked this comment
Why must we be the World Police?
By tenn tom (223), remsenburg on Aug 31, 13 8:11 AM
if
mot
us,
who
By CaptainSig (702), Dutch Harbor on Sep 1, 13 6:39 AM
1 member liked this comment
Right on . . .
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 1, 13 6:54 AM
To clarify, the "Right on" applies to CaptainSig's comment.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 1, 13 7:04 AM
The point is to let the Syrians figure it out themselves. No one is picking sides here.
By tenn tom (223), remsenburg on Aug 31, 13 9:42 AM
1 member liked this comment
"Let the Syrians figure it out," just as Germany did in the 1930's?

As Winston Churchill said about appeasement:

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.”

“And do not suppose that this is the end. This is only the beginning of the reckoning. This is only the first sip, the first foretaste of a bitter cup which will be proffered to us year by year unless by a supreme recovery of moral health and martial vigour, we arise again ...more
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Aug 31, 13 10:49 AM
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The President has just announced that he will seek the approval of Congress before using military action, which will happen starting the week of September 9th apparently.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Aug 31, 13 2:04 PM
We don't have a dog in this fight! On one side we have Assad who has bombed and killed many of his people, PERHAPS, he was behind the gas attack. On the other side we have Al Quida, PERHAPS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE GAS ATTACK,mass murderers bent on destroying western civilization. Let them figure it out themselves, whoever's left standing will be our enemy. Leave it to Phil to back Al Quida, just like his boy Barry.
By bigfresh (4173), north sea on Aug 31, 13 5:49 PM
The only reason for making a strike would be that President Obama said that he would if Assad "crossed the line" and now he must do something or be labeled "indecisive". That mistake was a product of his his lack of seasoning in international relations. (One that we can be sure his successor, Hillary Clinton, will never make.) It's just not worth protecting the president's rep to undertake an action that has NO upside and a limitless downside.

It would be different if the strike would ...more
By highhatsize (3930), East Quogue on Aug 31, 13 6:31 PM
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Phil said

"countries like North Korea, Iran or other rogue states, or terrorist organizations "

Interesting i will file that under future use
By They call me (2623), southampton on Sep 1, 13 7:39 AM
It's pitiful that those on the left , who ranted against President George W Bush when he used military force, now are cheering on the current regime when Dear Leader threatens the same. There is no upside to getting involved in this mess, let the almighty UN do something for once.
By bigfresh (4173), north sea on Sep 1, 13 7:45 AM
None of us knows what military action will be approved by Congress. Perhaps a very limited cruise missile attack against an isolated depot of chemical weapons?

bigfresh, same question as above to Preliator, do we just talk about this, scold the perpetrator, and let him or her do it again with impunity?

Is this your best solution to an obvious problem?
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 1, 13 9:42 AM
Obama goes off TelePrompTer and Draws Red Line. He needs to save face. The EGO is enormous. Bishop has NO clue votes as he is directed to by party. Giving any credence to Bishop make that person just as dumb
By kpjc (159), east quogue on Sep 1, 13 8:02 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By kpjc (159), east quogue on Sep 1, 13 8:03 AM
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The president knows he screwed up that's why he is trying to hand this off to Congress
By chief1 (2637), southampton on Sep 1, 13 8:59 AM
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Same question as above to Preliator and bigfresh.

What do we do with people who use chemical weapons against masses of unarmed civilians, just let them keep repeating the same reprehensible behavior?

Seriously?

Could a very limited military response accomplish anything (Cruise missiles to knock out a depot of chemical weapons, for instance)?
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 1, 13 9:45 AM
I guess we once again rely on "our" stealth intelligence reporting. Didn't we learn from the 1) The weapons of mass destruction days? Bush is still bleeding from that. 2) Remember the doctored up news and pictures from those Kuwait hospital reports? We all were horrified and wanted a pound of flesh, as with these pictures. We think it happened but can we be sure with side did it/ This would be an excellent way for the rebels to get our support, trickery at it best. Our Government has its head so ...more
By nazz (22), Flanders on Sep 1, 13 9:44 AM
Let's see what the UN inspection team reports in the next few days. (You may recall Bush did not wait for this in Iraq about the WMD.)

If we ARE SURE of what happened, and who did it, is any military action justified in your mind?

If not now, when? After how many more chemical weapon attacks, and how many more thousands of deaths?

See Churchill quotes about appeasement above, please.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 1, 13 9:47 AM
1 member liked this comment
What will missile strikes accomplish? A slap of the hand perhaps. In the end it changes nothing. Even if it did we'd be assisting Al Qaeda supported rebels. So no good possible outcome equates to staying out of the conflict even if doing so leaves a bad taste.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 1, 13 9:52 AM
Clarification -- striking the command and control ability to launch chemical weapons. This could be a cyber-attack BTW.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 1, 13 10:18 AM
No. I'm not defending the use of chemical weapons. I needed to point that out eh? I'm not supporting arbitrary use of force that will not result in regime change, and may actually assist people that we spent 12 years trying to eliminate. If you'd get your head out of your partisan cloud you'd realize that it's best to not strike when the benefits of doing so are either negligible or nonexistent. Seriously, Phil, your inability to judge issues without party influence is predictable, laughable, and ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 1, 13 10:55 PM
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Negative. I don't ignore nor forgive the use of WMD's. That's you making up arguments and thrusting a position on those who disagree with you. That's weak. History has plenty of examples of atrocities, Phil. The methods used to kill people range from stoning to fire to gas. The end result always being the same - a lot of dead people. The USA has intervened numerous times. The USA has chosen not to intervene numerous times. My hope is the logic behind choosing to or not looks like A) Will a strike ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 2, 13 8:47 AM
Please show me where I'm on the record for supporting genocide.
Seriously, copy and paste that here.
Until you do I'm going on record as saying you are a liar who can't defend what he says and fabricates nonsense in an effort to support absolute lies. And here I will posy my evidence.

"you are still on record for supporting genocide."
Philathome
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 2, 13 11:46 AM
Focus!

Let's be very clear about the problem here -- CHEMICAL WEAPONS used against unarmed civilians.

Period.

Let that sink into your heads for a while -- watch the TV, absorb the full physical reality of what happened.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 1, 13 11:30 AM
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This is NOT about taking sides in a civil war, favoring one "side" over the other.

It is about basic and profound human decency -- indeed you could not ask for a more clear example of an action needing a reaction.

This cannot stand.

Proof is another matter, and over the next week we shall see what comes forth . . .
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 1, 13 11:33 AM
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There IS a line in the sand here -- for all of humanity. Here it is shown as can best be done using Plain Text formatting.

Which side of the line are you one?

The Human Race (against using chemical weapons in any way, ever)

_______________________ (line in sand) _________________________

Other Humanoid Sacks of Protoplasm (who feel that the use of chemical weapons can be justified sometimes)

Again, which side of the line are you on?
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 1, 13 11:39 AM
phil, IMO any diversion from the enormity of the situation in Syria, whether you and your friend are right or wrong about those chemical companies, simply asks for this conversation be diluted with off-the-main-and-crucial-topic comments.

If you want to pop up secondary targets, for others to take pot shots at, of course that is your right, but it invites everyone to let their eyes wander from the primary target here.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 1, 13 12:12 PM
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Do any of you realize just how horrible a way to die being poisoned by sarin gas is?

There is good reason why it was sanctioned decades ago, and use of it is not only a war crime, but a crime against humanity. Though Syria is a non-signatory state, the UN Chemical Weapons Convention has been violated. If there actually was any chutzpah among the UN member nations this would not be a White House issue, and it should not be a White House issue. Civil War in Yugoslavia didn't stop Milosevic ...more
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 1, 13 12:23 PM
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From the assessment report:

"Three hospitals in the Damascus area received approximately 3,600 patients displaying symptoms consistent with nerve agent exposure in less than three hours on the morning of August 21, according to a highly credible international humanitarian organization. The reported symptoms, and the epidemiological pattern of events – characterized by the massive influx of patients in a short period of time, the origin of the patients, and the contamination of medical ...more
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 1, 13 12:56 PM
Mr. Z's quote is from the U. S. report I believe (please correct me if this is mistaken), released by the White House Press Secretary on August 30th. ["Government Assessment of the Syrian Government’s Use of Chemical Weapons on August 21, 2013" -- See whitehouse (dot) gov]

The U. N. report is not likely to be released until the middle of next week IMO, after laboratory test results have been received, and factored into the other evidence gathered recently in Syria.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 1, 13 2:01 PM
Samples provided by first responders have conclusively shown the presence of sarin gas in Damascus.

The UN will undoubtedly come to the same conclusion. A great many Syrians think the world doesn't care about them. If Congress doesn't reconvene early, or the UN puts a rush on their own sample testing, then the people of Syria who think such are probably right...
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 1, 13 3:39 PM
The US report's discussion of causation (who did this?) refers to a variety of satellite, electronic, and other evidence that the Syrian regime launched the chemical attack(s). Will the UN report go into causation, or is this beyond the scope of its mission?
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 1, 13 4:16 PM
The UN will definitely go into causation. It's the only way for them to charge anyone with a war crime.

The deployment of chemical nerve agents IS a war crime...
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 1, 13 8:34 PM
Is there a possible bind here, in that case, in that the most accurate and complete case of causation must necessarily involve classified sources and material, which the US administration does not wish to -- will not? -- share with the UN team?

On the one hand the administration is relying on the UN team to support the case for military action.

To best enable this, however, the administration must show all of its cards.

Hmmmm?
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 1, 13 8:46 PM
Sharing intelligence doesn't mean strategy and tactics will be put up for public view. What information has been gathered may be supplied without necessarily compromising how it was gathered.
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 1, 13 9:23 PM
I am not sure about that, but if the administration withholds even minor supporting evidence, it may come back to haunt them (and the world).
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 2, 13 9:17 AM
I would submit to you that we have already entered a "period of consequences," as that phrase was used by Winston Churchill in1936:


"They go on in some strange paradox, decided only to be undecided, resolved to be irresolute, adamant for drift, solid for fluidity, all-powerful to be impotent…

"Owing to past neglect, in the face of the plainest warnings, we have entered upon a period of danger. The era of procrastination, of half measures, of soothing and baffling expedience ...more
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 1, 13 12:24 PM
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We have long been involved in the Syrian civil war so any discussion about consideration of a new front is moot.

The State Department has long secretly financed Syrian political opposition groups and related projects, including a satellite TV channel that beams anti-government programming into the country, according to previously undisclosed diplomatic cables,” reported the Washington Post on April 17 2011. It was WikiLeaks that exposed a US program founded and financed by the George ...more
Sep 2, 13 5:44 PM appended by KevinLuss
...except for the SH Press. :>)
By KevinLuss (356), SH on Sep 1, 13 5:44 PM
How many times has SoS Kerry confirmed that it was Sarin gas used in Syria? We get it...Sarin gas was the gas used. In Syria. Contrary to UN Resolution 687. Killing tens of hundreds of innocent civilians.
Now please convince me, if you can, WHO used it?
By loading... (553), quiogue on Sep 1, 13 11:30 PM
WHO is indeed the crucial question, and the US report has fairly detailed information on this some of which Mr. Z has quoted above [see whitehouse (dot) gov]. The UN report is TBD but later this week may be available?

Another carrier battle group has been diverted to the region from its scheduled return home from the Indian Ocean.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 2, 13 7:21 AM
Of course using gas against civilians is wrong Phil. Why should it be the USA that retaliates? How about the Arab League or the UN? How about Israel of Saudi Arabia? We should stay out of this mess.
By bigfresh (4173), north sea on Sep 2, 13 7:14 AM
bigfresh, it is too late to "stay out of this" IMO.

The use of chemical weapons was an Act of War against the civilized world.

We are therefore already firmly "in it" and the lessons of appeasement with Germany in the 1930's govern.

Fasten seat belts IMO.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 2, 13 8:38 AM
Hey Phil why don't you sign up and join the Syrian strike. Do you really want to start another war like we did in Iraq. There is zero evidence as to the use of chemical weapons. We had so called evidence that Iraq was using chemical weapons before we invaded them. I don't trust Israel I think they are yet again giving us bad information to have us do their dirty work.
By chief1 (2637), southampton on Sep 2, 13 8:39 AM
Chief here you go again.

Please come back to The Present.

Iraq was in the past. Syria is now, and the pre is a new administration in Washington in case you haven't noticed.

"Zero evidence?"

Give us a break . . .

By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 2, 13 8:50 AM
"But go ahead and thumb your nose at international law"

Apparently the Intl community has already thumbed their collective noses at international law.

You know why so many countries don't want to be involved, Phil? Because it's a mess with no good solution. You'll feel better if we send cruise missiles and hit empty hangars and a radar station or two, but that won't make anyone un-dead and it quit possibly start a larger war. Then what? We can feel good about taking the moral high ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 2, 13 8:58 AM
Sorry for spelling errors. Not sorry for the opinion.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 2, 13 8:59 AM
Germany.

1936.

Have we learned nothing?
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 2, 13 9:00 AM
Hahaaaaa... get it straight. The "I don't trust Israel" was from someone else. I didn't post that. Doh!
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 2, 13 9:38 AM
The water is at your neck, Phil. You make stuff up, don't consider the big picture, and follow follow follow.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 2, 13 9:48 AM
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Name-calling and "ad hominem" attacks probably dilute this discussion IMO.

By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 2, 13 10:09 AM
Intervention of some kind?

If not now, when?

If not us, who?

Focus!
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 2, 13 9:11 AM
So we accept action of some kind because we have to do something. No worries if that something will be considered an act of war and have little or no strategic value. No worries about the consequences. Unreal. If this escalates your symbolic actions could cost the lives of hundreds of thousands. But hey, we have send a message, right?
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 2, 13 9:45 AM
See reply to Captn America below.

1. UN report
2. Congressional debate
3. Consultation with other countries
4. Cast the die

NO ONE is urging unilateral action right now.

NO ONE.

5. Patience
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 2, 13 10:00 AM
Then we are in agreement.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 2, 13 11:37 AM
Folks, what does a successful strike look like?
Will we kill al-Assad? Will we take the side of "the good guys" (hint-there aren't any) and assist with their victory? Will we take away the ability for further chemical strikes? Will we put such a scare into anyone considering the use of chemical weapons that they'll quickly change their minds?
Will Hezbollah, Iran, Russia et al be so impressed with our mighty power that they'll lie down like good dogs?
Nope.
What is the objective ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 2, 13 10:23 AM
double standard -- all good questions, which is what debate is all about.

What would YOU do in this situation if the causation of this chemical weapon attack can be nailed home in detail?

Would you do NOTHING?

WHAT WOULD YOU RECOMMEND AS ACTION?
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 2, 13 10:34 AM
Why are you yelling? First, I still don't see answers to my questions. I see skating around the issues.

I will answer your questions.
Build a coalition. You know why we haven't been able to so far? Other countries see the big picture and possible fallout and don't like the options.
If we are truly the world leader, then it's up to us to build the case and put together a coalition of the willing. If we can't, we are either not the power we think we are, or not as wise as the nations ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 2, 13 11:27 AM
Obama is talking about a single strike, not a commitment to one side or the other.
Preventing the proliferation of wmd's is in our national interest since acquisition by other rogue nations and/or terrorist organizations can be a threat to our security.
By philathome (5995), Southampton on Sep 2, 13 10:29 AM

+++

And tell me again how we are going to attain this? Phil, admit it, you don't have an answer and you haven't considered the consequences.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 2, 13 11:32 AM
really?
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 2, 13 11:55 AM
Thank you double standard for the reply. Sorry for yelling.

I do not have any answers for your questions, because we have not seen all the evidence. Unilateral action would seem to be uncalled for in general. The evidence could change that (as could the actions of all players in Syria in the next week or two), and as I just said to Capt America, if the administration shows all its intelligence cards, Congress and the international community will likely approve some action -- TBD in scope.

The ...more
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 2, 13 12:13 PM
Did I write that? Again, you make stuff up, Phil. Doesn't make your arguments any better, just makes you look like a buffoon. Man, if you just spent half the time making stuff up and trying to be provocative people might take you seriously.

And since you posted this to me
"you are still on record for supporting genocide" which is an absolute lie and complete nonsense, I'll move along and talk to the adults now...nnnnkayyyy? Run along.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 2, 13 12:54 PM
Ive been watching this fiasco very carefully and did not want to comment on it too soon. At first I admit I bought into the armature hour description of this administrations actions... but we know better then to underestimate this teams perpetual campaigning skills

I have come to this conclusion... It’s all about 2014... Whatever happens, this much is clear: We’re no longer talking about the IRS targeting tea party groups, the Justice Department tapping reporters’ phone ...more
By joe hampton (3302), south hampton on Sep 2, 13 10:32 AM
Thanks joe hampton, so are you saying that the entire world should do nothing about the Sarin attack?

Turning away from this monumental issue reminds, once again, of Churchill's famous words from the 1930's about Germany:

“And do not suppose that this is the end. This is only the beginning of the reckoning. This is only the first sip, the first foretaste of a bitter cup which will be proffered to us year by year unless by a supreme recovery of moral health and martial vigour, ...more
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 2, 13 10:38 AM
The leftists here championing a "symbolic" act of war against Syria are the same bleating Obama sycophants who screeched about Bush and Iraq!! They change their tune depending who the Prez is at the time. A truly pitiful and morally bankrupt position to hold.
My opinion on the situation is still the same, we should stay out of this one, both sides are not friendly to the USA, hell, the "rebels" are aligned with Al Qida . Attacking Syria will be providing aid and comfort to our enemies.
By bigfresh (4173), north sea on Sep 2, 13 11:00 AM
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question to you, Phil

Assuming the answer to your question is no, and there is no standard blueprint for response, should each case me measured in risk / reward, or do we respond without consideration of consequence?
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 2, 13 11:29 AM
Without consideration of consequence. Without thorough analysis of cause and effect. That's great, Phil. The Philathome Doctrine states that we attack at will. Saddam Hussein gassed his own people. The USA eventually took him out. I guess you strongly supported the Iraq war while GWB was in office, right? Right? Saddam won't be using gas anytime soon, so the Philathome Doctrine seems to be valid. Let's go, Phil. You and I will lead the charge. We can build a theme park in Damascus.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 2, 13 11:53 AM
I did in reply to PBR.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 2, 13 12:45 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 2, 13 10:16 PM
Public opinion is split? Do you count 85 percent of Americans being against an assault on Syria as a split? You're a very funny person
By chief1 (2637), southampton on Sep 2, 13 11:31 AM
Phil, this article is squarely about the President without any need for anyone to turn it in that direction.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 2, 13 7:30 PM
Any action by Obama will be met with a reaction against Israel. We can't just strike once then take our toys and go home. We are being pushed into a swirling cesspool that will devour men and treasure for....how long? Unilateral military action would be suicidal.
By loading... (553), quiogue on Sep 2, 13 11:33 AM
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It is reported elsewhere that Senator McCain has urged Congress to support Mr. Obama in his plan for military action in Syria, saying that a no vote would be “catastrophic” for the United States and its credibility in the world.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 2, 13 5:35 PM
Yeah he is talking regime change. Americans aren't fond of those two words. I think Russia and Iran might have a few thoughts on that too.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 2, 13 10:13 PM
Russia and Iran have an interest in making sure the Sarin does not fall into the wrong hands. We may see more cooperation than is expected -- after the saber-rattling ends.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 3, 13 8:13 AM
Why isn't there enough consensus and cooperation in the world powers to insist Assad to be removed from power if poison gas is such a human no-no. The Russians must do too much business with Syria and doing anything anti-american is in their blood. I think religion can set a standard of decency for behavior, I'm not sure what they believe in does.
By Mets fan (1390), Southampton on Sep 2, 13 6:22 PM
Though in war, everything can get muddled very quickly.







By Mets fan (1390), Southampton on Sep 2, 13 6:24 PM
The Russians have a naval base and other military installations in Syria. Do we really want to go into a conflict with a country occupied by Russia?
By chief1 (2637), southampton on Sep 3, 13 1:42 AM
They are probably worried about the loose cannon on deck also IMO. The existence of the chemical gas arsenal threatens the entire region, as there is no saying who in Syria will control these weapons down the road.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 3, 13 4:19 AM
To answer your query Phil: We should not attack Syria! Plain enough for you? An attack on Syria is providing aid and comfort to Al Quida , it's obvious which side you're on.
By bigfresh (4173), north sea on Sep 3, 13 6:25 AM
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And the next time Sarin is used against unarmed civilians, we "stay out of this?"

When Sarin is used offensively beyond Syria's borders, we "stay out of this?"

How many times do we turn our noses from the reprehensible use of deadly and illegal gas?
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 3, 13 6:39 AM
Were you a proponent of the Iraq war under George W Bush? If not your hypocrisy is showing. Sadaam Hussein used gas too, were you cheerleading an attack then?
To answer your questions: YES, if it isn't used against an ally, YES , as long as it doesn't concern our or an ally's security, as many times as it happens. My daily quota of posts is used up, to be continued tomorrow.
By bigfresh (4173), north sea on Sep 3, 13 7:04 AM
2 members liked this comment
Iraq facts were different.

In the present situation, inaction is inexcusable. The use of Sarin on this scale is an Act of War against all humanity.

Appeasement will likely be as productive as it was in Germany in the 1930's. How did that work out?

Focus!
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 3, 13 8:02 AM
ah yes we all remember the less then competent Hans Blix
By joe hampton (3302), south hampton on Sep 3, 13 9:14 AM
And the relevance of all this to Syria is?

Here there ARE weapons of mass destruction and they MUST be dealt with.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 3, 13 11:56 AM
Largely irrelevant to the current problem IMO.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 3, 13 12:12 PM
Captn America, "mind your own business" are you serious?

P U B L I C

F O R U M

If you don't like the feedback, leave.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 3, 13 12:58 PM
“First, it’s not our responsibility. Secondly, whatever we do won’t actually accomplish anything useful, third, it’s expensive, and fourth, it’s dangerous. It’s simply not our responsibility. We’re only one country out of 196 and we have our own problems to deal with and we’re not the world’s policeman, nor the world’s judge, jury and executioner.”

Rep. Alan Grayson (D) Sunday on MSNBC
Hear hear!
By loading... (553), quiogue on Sep 3, 13 11:44 AM
2 members liked this comment
And doing nothing -- appeasement -- will likely lead to greater responsibility, requiring more complicated actions which will be less useful, more expensive, and more dangerous.

We are firmly IN a mess.

This is inescapable.

Hiding our heads in the sand will not solve the problem, as much as we are "wishin' and hopin' " that it will.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 3, 13 12:19 PM
Speaker Boehner and Rep. Cantor now support military action of some kind.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 3, 13 12:10 PM
Yup. These guys are going to be taking a mighty risk for a slap on the hands and an eventual outcome that doesn't at all take away Assad's ability to use chem weapons again. Further, the more desperate he becomes, the more likely he is to use them again. So weakening him a little increases the likelihood of him using those weapons again a lot.
But for the sake of moral high ground let's roll baby!
Ugh.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 3, 13 12:21 PM
BTW - I hope I'm wrong. I sincerely do.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 3, 13 12:22 PM
Yes, detailed proof, followed by international consensus, then effective action to make sure no further Sarin attacks can ever happen again.

The proof, and consensus, may surprise even the harshest critics IMO.

Don't forget: McCain, Graham, Boehner and Cantor have probably already seen evidence which has not been made public. Obama leaves tonight for Russia, and the Russian team is coming to Washington.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 3, 13 12:37 PM
Lets see....USA bombs a depot of Syrian chemical weapons and spreads them into the air, poisoning everybody for a few square miles. Collateral damage its called. That will fix the problem. Now the opposition (Al Quida/Hammas or whatever they call themselves) will have the USA on their side of the war! That's how crazy that part of the world is. "My friend's enemy is my friend" or something like that. Don't think for 1 minute that there isn't a method in their madness: if Assad sent the sarin, it ...more
By Non-Political (87), Hampton Bays on Sep 3, 13 2:05 PM
Wrong. The debate here hasn't been about if Syria used chem weapons, it's about our possible response. Syria represents a bag of bad choices. That's not political, that's reality.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 3, 13 2:08 PM
1 member liked this comment
The article was just updated.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 3, 13 3:52 PM
Strange world this is. Syria will likely get bombed and that could possibly help Al Qaeda backed rebels. Those are the guys we used to bomb, but got tired.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 3, 13 4:04 PM
Syria's allies WILL attack Israel when Syria is attacked. That is a fact. Does anyone dispute this?
When Israel gets attacked, WE will come to her aid. Another fact.
An attack on Syria WILL result in boots on the ground.
By loading... (553), quiogue on Sep 3, 13 4:51 PM
Me, inflammatory? Pot, meet Kettle.
A senior Syrian official on Monday issued a first direct warning that if attacked, his country would retaliate against Israel. Khalaf Muftah, a senior Baath Party official who used to serve as Syria’s assistant information minister, said in a radio interview that Damascus would consider Israel “behind the Western aggression and it will therefore come under fire. We have strategic weapons and we’re capable of responding,” he said. ...more
By loading... (553), quiogue on Sep 4, 13 12:20 AM
This is all about OUR weapons. If you've got a military industrial complex running your country, as we do, you must have perpetual war so that you can use up weaponry. If you don't use up your weaponry, then you can't manufacture new weaponry, and building that new weaponry requires billions in government contracts. No doubt we have armed both sides in this conflict. Even if we didn't sell weaponry outright to the Assad regime, they would have bought it from someone else to whom we'd originally ...more
By btdt (435), water mill on Sep 3, 13 4:59 PM
As Ike warned in 1960:

"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

"We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge ...more
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 3, 13 6:35 PM
1 member liked this comment
We still haven't learned our lesson. Unless there is something I am missing, I don't see the value in getting mixed up in this. Who are we protecting and who will we be emboldening? Sooner or later we are going to have to stop acting like the world's police. It hasn't gotten us very far to date.
By dnice (2342), Hampton Bays on Sep 3, 13 7:18 PM
We are protecting human civilization from further insane use of Sarin, hopefully.

Think:

Germany

1936

Appeasement

Please see posts above incl. Churchill quotes.

If not us, who?

If not now, when?

After the next Sarin atttack?

After the use of Sarin goes beyond Syria's borders?
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 3, 13 7:36 PM
1 member liked this comment
Yeah, ok. Then sign off on full invasion because short of that your happy little nothing strike is going to achieve no strategic victory, and likely create more problems. Now all of a sudden Syria is Germany and the future of Europe is at stake. Seriously, give it up.
After the smoke clears Assad will still have the ability to use chemical weapons. But, hey, continue to blindly trust the leaders who told you how great the Muslim Brotherhood was in Egypt. And blindly they follow, and blindly ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 3, 13 8:20 PM
If I can't make you understand this then you are the one with the problem. You want punishment and claim that a strike will prevent Assad from launching more chem attacks. Then you bring up the holocaust with your "never again" post. So you accept a limited strike with the false belief that anything will change. So ask yourself questions, Phil. You think an air and missile attack changes things? I am saying short of invasion the chem weapons will remain. So who wins? I have seen enough miscalculation ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 3, 13 9:47 PM
In short, your assumptions that a strike will be effective and worthy of your desired pound of flesh are awfully naive.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 3, 13 9:56 PM
Phil, your stated goal was punishment for the use of chem weapons and removing Assad' s ability to use them again. However, the only way to achieve this is a ground campaign. You won't take out his chem weapons with air strikes. So the punishment part has no real strategic value and Assad still has CW. Punishment means killing Assad or regime change. That's ugly work. Nobody is saying appeasement is right, but many are questioning what the end game is. When we ask the only response is hyperbole. ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 4, 13 7:19 AM
I am not convinced that this strike will be "limited". C'mon, with everything that has happened since 2003 and you guys aren't the least bit skeptical? I just don't trust my government and it weighs on the legitimacy of any action.
By dnice (2342), Hampton Bays on Sep 3, 13 8:55 PM
Your points are well taken, dnice.

With the President's turn toward Congressional approval, and with Russia's Pres. Putin opening the door (see below), however, we can only hope that the Sarin Act of War will be met with an intelligent, well-reasoned, and appropriate response.

IMO President Obama is very mindful that his place in history is being written every day, and that he has a chance to act in ways which previous Presidents did not (with respect to the US Constitution). He ...more
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 4, 13 5:15 AM
What is "characins"?
Sep 3, 13 9:06 PM appended by dnice
I don't think there was anything limited about the hunt for OBL.
By dnice (2342), Hampton Bays on Sep 3, 13 9:06 PM
Dnice, Here is the bottom line Democrats will support Syria strike because they will Not! allow obama to be humiliated. Why argue with a desperate hypocritical mindset
Sep 3, 13 11:50 PM appended by joe hampton
Let face it the reason that obama's cant effectively sell his strategy on Syria, is that he doesn't have a strategy.
By joe hampton (3302), south hampton on Sep 3, 13 11:50 PM
1 member liked this comment
Joe, Don't forget all this happening just a year after issuing an ultimatum to Syria against the use of chemical weapons. When the POTUS issues an ultimatum to another sovereign nation, he should know in advance what he is going to do if that ultimatum is rejected.

But that is not the way BHO operates, he does not pay nearly as much attention to mundane realities. Campaigning is his strong suit. Governing is not.


By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 4, 13 12:07 AM
President Putin has announced that Russia might support a UN Security Council resolution if the evidence shows that the Syrian government was responsible for the Sarin attack.

This is a major development, and possibly just the first wave of international support to deal with the recent Act of War in using the Sarin on unarmed civilians. This illegal action drew the line in the sand for all the world to deal with. The so-called issue of any lines drawn previously by the US is a smoke-screen.

A ...more
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 4, 13 4:43 AM
That would be huge and a very smart play by Russia. They need to assert their influence if they want to look like a dominant player.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 4, 13 7:02 AM
1 member liked this comment
The key word is IF. A security Council resolution is a lot different than your boy Barry lobbing some cruise missiles into a sovereign nation in the hope of saving face. Where did Syria acquire these WMDs? Seems like Sadaam Hussein trucked a lot of them across the border in the months leading up to the start of the invasion of Iraq. We are now seeing the results.
By bigfresh (4173), north sea on Sep 4, 13 7:04 AM
bigfresh, in this time of crisis would you consider using a term for our Commander-in-Chief other than "your boy Barry?"

Really, do you expect people to take you seriously using such disrespectful language?

Thank you.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 4, 13 8:23 AM
2 members liked this comment
John Kerry said he wants to leave open the chance for us to go into Syria with soldiers. It doesn't matter anyway by now the Syrians have all their weapons stored away in schools and hospitals.
By chief1 (2637), southampton on Sep 4, 13 7:06 AM
Good point Chief. These might be the same weapons we were looking for in '03.
By dnice (2342), Hampton Bays on Sep 4, 13 7:41 AM
The President of Syria is a dictator, and Group trying to overthrow the government are terrorists. The situation is a lose lose for the United States
By chief1 (2637), southampton on Sep 4, 13 10:48 AM
1 member liked this comment
And is "doing nothing" a win in your mind?
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 4, 13 12:32 PM
1 member liked this comment
PBR - what is a win. Phil refuses to answer because he's choking on hyperbole. You seem like the rational sort. If the goal is removing Assad's ability to use CW's again, how do we do that without boots on the ground.
If the goal is punishment, what is the punishment and what is the strategic gain?
Does this not leave us with 2 choices - regime change or staying out of the fight.
What reason do we have to trust our govt's word on anything having to do with the middle east?
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 4, 13 1:51 PM
Pls forgive spelling and punctuation errors.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 4, 13 1:52 PM
double standard,

Starting at the end of your list, little reason to trust but less reason not to act (if this makes sense?).

This is truly a mess with few predictable clear rewards for any particular action. In other words the risk/reward cost/benefit analysis is difficult.

This is a "one step at a time" process, and it is encouraging to see Congress rally more than we might have expected, and to have the international community opening doors when normally they would ...more
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 4, 13 3:20 PM
Thanks for the adult conversation. The situation is fluid, but it appears there will be an attack. My hope is that Russia leans on Assad and tells him to take his kick to the teeth, and keep his chemical weapons in his locker.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 4, 13 4:05 PM
Hopefully Russia can do more than that with Assad. Hanging on to the use of Sarin after this is a self-imposed sentence of . . .
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 4, 13 5:01 PM
phil, I hope you are not lumping "double standard" in to your comment just above? Our recent conversation was productive IMO.

Sometimes looking in the rear-view mirror can be . . .
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 4, 13 6:40 PM
Sorry, Philly, when you bomb another country it's an act of war. If you actually read the thread, PBR asked someone if doing nothing is a win. I asked what a win would look like. Why do even bother debating? You are locked in to an agenda and won't consider another point of view for a second. Anyone that disagrees with you is a radical and you feel compelled to fabricate nonsense. So why bother debating? You'll get your attack on Syria and then we will all be able to judge. But right now there are ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 5, 13 6:43 AM
2 members liked this comment
to Captn America:

Actually, they are false. Had you said, "John Kerry, swiftboated by his own MAN (singular person)", you would have been correct in part because only one of John Kerry's swiftboat crew mates, who was absent at all the actions for which Kerry was awarded medals, criticized him. All the others support Kerry. In like manner, had you alleged that his conduct was challenged by SOME of his superiors in the chain of command after the war was over, you would have been correct. ...more
By highhatsize (3930), East Quogue on Sep 4, 13 3:25 PM
2 members liked this comment
Ditto
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 4, 13 3:36 PM
Old news.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 4, 13 5:04 PM
Ditto to the "ancient history."
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 4, 13 5:51 PM
1 member liked this comment
Resistance causes persistence?
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 4, 13 6:42 PM
? You don't give a "rats ass about the validity of the story"? Yet you use it as a reference to criticize a combat vet.

Once again Captain America, what did YOU do during the war?

By But I'm a blank! (1283), Hampton Bays on Sep 5, 13 9:11 AM
So having no experience wearing a military uniform, you think you are in a position to judge?

You are not.

I find it laughable that more than 30 years after Sec'y Kerry's service in Vietnam it was only then that critics cam out from under rocks. It just so happened to be during his Presidential run, and you don't see how it could have been smoke and mirrors to fool the lemmings?

I am not a fan of Mr. Kerry's. But I do believe he was railroaded by the republicans to placate ...more
By But I'm a blank! (1283), Hampton Bays on Sep 5, 13 11:37 AM
The Senate Foreign Relations Committee has approved (10-7) the use of military force. The full Senate and House must still approve this for the President to act.

I caught a little of the debate. Does one part of the war powers act permit immediate military action (with reporting later) in the event of an imminent threat to the US or its allies?

Does the next use/movement of Sarin gas trigger this limited use of military power? Does Syria have the capacity to send Sarin into other ...more
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 4, 13 3:49 PM
Where did the language "to bomb Assad" come from?
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 4, 13 6:25 PM
The "bomb" language appears to be only from the Huff Post, and is misleading IMO as you have presented it.

The Senate Committee Resolution says only this:

" . . . The President is authorized, subject to subsection (b), to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in a limited and tailored manner . . . "
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 4, 13 9:28 PM
Another lesson learned that the media will jazz things up for racy headlines. Shameful journalism IMO.

When those incorrect headlines are used as "fact," the inaccuracy then creates a wake of its own which must be dealt with.

What a tangled web we weave . . .
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 5, 13 7:11 AM
This isn't about YOU Phil, it's about committing American assets in favor of Al Quida!! Let the grown ups make the decisions,there is no up side for us in this cluster!
By bigfresh (4173), north sea on Sep 4, 13 9:04 PM
<- - - Chris Matthews on "Morning Joe" analyzing the political ramifications of the congressional debate to support obama's call for a military strike against Syria. Matthews said obama had put the Dems in a "wicked position" forcing them to support the president even if they genuinely oppose the military action.
They’re going to have to vote for it to save the president’s hide. That’s a bad position to put your party in.
Matthews went on to point out that the very same ...more
By They call me (2623), southampton on Sep 4, 13 9:29 PM
So it would stand to reason that whatever message that is sent to Syria will be meant to be received loud and clear by Iran. Has me wondering about the admins insistence on this attack. There must be a larger issue in play here and that probably is Iran. What better way to threaten Iran than a healthy display of force in their backyard. Conjecture I know, but it seems to fit.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 4, 13 9:59 PM
Makes sense IMO.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 5, 13 7:02 AM
Chris Matthews even knows it
By They call me (2623), southampton on Sep 5, 13 6:44 AM
to Captn America:

The ONLY member of Kerry's crew who joined in the SBVT allegations was one Stephen Gardner who was interviewed by Douglas Brinkley for a Time Magazine article ("The Tenth Brother") that ran on March 9, 2004, That article points out inconsistencies in his story and suggests that his unique version of events was prompted by his arch-conservativism and political partisanship for George W. Bush. "Of those who served in Kerry's boat crew, only Stephen Gardner joined SBVT. ...more
By highhatsize (3930), East Quogue on Sep 5, 13 11:52 AM
The one thing that is coming sharply into focus is that obamas Arab Spring is an absolute failure of epic proportions and will take the next POTUS at least 7 Years to dig out of this ditch that will be inherited.

The decision to invoke the red line was the president’s alone. He shies away from responsibility and demonstrates both political maladroitness and international irresoluteness when he denies this own role in the series of events he finds himself squarely in the middle of
By joe hampton (3302), south hampton on Sep 5, 13 4:06 PM
PBR It is starting to be obvious you have a ideological Camel of your own in this fight, Is you middle name Hussein also
By They call me (2623), southampton on Sep 6, 13 12:45 AM
Yes, I have an idealogy here which we share actually, but you don't get it:

NO FIRST USE OF SARIN AGAINST UNARMED CIVILIANS.

Never again.

It seems as if you are FOR this illegal activity?
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 6, 13 6:31 AM
1 member liked this comment
Came across this on a link from Politico what do you think of this PBR ???

Subject: Who is Barack Obama?

Probable Democrat presidential candidate, Barack Hussein Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr., a black MUSLIM from Nyangoma-Kogel, Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white ATHIEST from Wichita, Kansas.

Obama's parents met at the University of Hawaii. When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced. His father returned to Kenya. His mother then married ...more
By They call me (2623), southampton on Sep 6, 13 12:53 AM
They call him..."Flaming Pants".
By VOS (1170), WHB on Sep 6, 13 2:15 AM
They call me --

Another smoke screen -- are you for or against the FIRST USE of Sarin against unarmed civilians anywhere in the world?
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 6, 13 6:34 AM
VOS -- You are also in favor of more FIRST USE of Sarin against unarmed civilians anywhere in the world?
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 6, 13 6:36 AM
In case it is not obvious, this discussion has implications for use of other WMD by other countries -- Iran, Korea, you name it.

Who is going to "sort out" the first use of other rogue weapons by other rogue states, if the world does not take this on right now?

"They call me" -- should we call you then, after the fact?

VOS -- Will you then wake up and realize that keeping the Genie in the jar might have been easier then cleaning up the mess after the fact?
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 6, 13 6:44 AM
PS -- When you stick your head in the sand, you create a target of your own choosing.


Whack!
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 6, 13 6:51 AM
Yes, unless your eyes are on your keister, as seems to be the case with the isolationists . . .
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 6, 13 6:56 AM
You get so caught up in your rants PBR that your reading comprehension goes in the toilet. For the record, I was calling out "They call me" for his repeating long ago discredited reports of the president being a muslim and taking the oath of office using a "kuran"(sic). I might also add while I'm forced to elaborate that our Constitution (a document Mr. Me apparently believes in) guarantees the same rights, including those to elective office, to people of all faiths including Flip Wilson's Church ...more
By VOS (1170), WHB on Sep 6, 13 11:43 AM
As we prepare to remember the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 next week, may we reflect on the lessons we have learned.


Rest in Peace.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 6, 13 7:25 AM
Each of us can only answer that question for our own Self.
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 6, 13 11:12 AM
Phil you should go to the New York Times website and look at the video of the people being executed by the so-called militia trying to take over the Syrian government. The real question is are we helping terrorists to overthrow a government? Who are we helping? I really don't understand what the agenda is of this country. I am a Republican but I have a lot of respect for this president but can't understand this issue.
By chief1 (2637), southampton on Sep 6, 13 8:56 AM
Like I said... obamas Arab Spring and the economy is an absolute failure of epic proportions and will take the next POTUS Years to dig out of this ditch that will be INHERITED.

No matter what happens during the next administrations watch it will not be his/hers fault it will be " IT'S OBAMA FAULT"



By joe hampton (3302), south hampton on Sep 6, 13 10:53 AM
Listen this is not an attack on the US or our allies we do not even know who the players are. If we attack Syria we would be helping Al-Qaeda. Why would obama want to do that ?

People feel they do not want to us to be dragged into a radical Muslim conflict when we have no dog in the fight. If the U.S. attacked nations for humanitarian motives, We'd be at war with half of Africa.

Now hows that Benghazi investigation coming anyway ?
By joe hampton (3302), south hampton on Sep 6, 13 11:31 AM
Sure we took leadership roles in the Korean conflict and in Vietnam. How did that work out? If we bomb Syria we are helping the rebels. Its a lose lose because none of the choices in syria are very good
By chief1 (2637), southampton on Sep 6, 13 9:51 AM
1 member liked this comment
to joe hampton:

Utterly false, both in statement and in implication. The US economy is doing far better than any of the other major national western economies that were almost destroyed by the Bush apocalypse. It is not doing as well as it COULD, because the mesmerized House Republican extremists blocked the additional stimulus package (the American Jobs Act) several years ago that, if passed, would have restored us to full economic health by today.

The Arab Spring that saw the ...more
By highhatsize (3930), East Quogue on Sep 6, 13 12:08 PM
1 member liked this comment
On Friday, the Labor Department reported that the economy gained just 169k jobs. in August. Economists had expected the economy to gain 180k jobs for the month. Even this optimist number is below the amount needed each month to keep pace with population growth. The weaker than expected number shows the economy has not generated meaningful growth. The unemployment rate dropped down to 7.3% as more Americans left the labor force.
By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 6, 13 12:19 PM
HHS There is a 17 TRILL $ debt and your still singing the same old more Quantitative easing BS,

Who is the extremist Joe or you

And Phil let the Blue hats sort it out, It does not concern us has a nation. We just got out of the middle East and you want to go back in ? with what Obamas gutted military? Maybe some more of HHS's printed Money ?

Trumka wont like it a bit the ink is not even dry and your spending good pension money on tanks
By Undocumented Democrat (1896), southampton on Sep 6, 13 12:28 PM
1 member liked this comment
John McCain is an ass, Happy
By Undocumented Democrat (1896), southampton on Sep 6, 13 1:10 PM
1 member liked this comment
John McCain vs. Barack Obama 2008. The first election I ever sat out. Sad to say, but both are clueless (sorry, Philly).
We have a President that sets Red lines then doesn't, then the red line is our red line, then his credibility is not at stake etc, etc. etc. Nice leadership Mr. President. Golf clap. Putin et al are probably doing vodka shots and cracking up.
Then we have the clueless Senator playing games while we debate whether or not to bomb another country. He's a riot. The next time ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 6, 13 5:02 PM
to 27dan:

So, to sum up your post, the unemployment rate under President Obama has declined to 7.3% from the 10.0% that it reached following the Bush apocalypse. Thanks, Mr. President!

What a shame that it isn't in the 5% range where it would be were it not for the fact that the fanatical House Tea Partiers sabotaged your economic recovery plans at every opportunity.

to Undocumented Democrat:

Alas, it is now too late to enact the financial catalyst the would ...more
By highhatsize (3930), East Quogue on Sep 6, 13 1:13 PM
CNBC's Rick Santelli reacts to the August jobs report, which revealed that the lowest proportion of Americans for decades are part of the workforce. "You can't hide this millions of people forever," he said. "And you can't play this three card monte game for long. To see the stock market rally on crappy data, to me, is just a horrible dynamic, what are we, a banana republic?"

By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 7, 13 12:52 AM
Most of you probably railed against Bush when he went into Iraq to get the very WMDs Syria is probably using today. What is different now? When do we learn our lesson that it isn't our fight? Use chem or bio weapons against us or our allies and I am convinced that something needs to be one. But for now, no, stay out of it. Neither side of this problem is a friend of ours. let them sort it out themselves.
By dnice (2342), Hampton Bays on Sep 6, 13 6:48 PM
Let the animals on both sides kill each other to their heart's content, we'll deal with the survivors
By bigfresh (4173), north sea on Sep 6, 13 6:59 PM
A record 90,473,000 Americans no longer work.
The new figures, released from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, show a dramatic rise in the number of Americans who exited the labor force, climbing from 89,957,000 in July to 90,473,000 in August.

The labor force participation rate is now at a 34-year low.

To be included in the Labor Department's calculations a person must be 16 years or older, a civilian, not in an institution (such as prison), and someone who has not looked ...more
By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 7, 13 12:55 AM
Well, that's what happens when you destroy a fully functional progressive tax system.

People like to say, "Well, the top 20% of earners paid almost 70% of the taxes", and in 2006 that was true (most recent fiscal year analyzed). The other thing that is true via IRS data is that the top 13% of "earners" took home about 55% of the nation's total taxable income in 2012. So YEAH, the 70% figure would tend to add up to being about normal, especially when you consider a full 2/3 (66%) of the ...more
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 7, 13 7:00 AM
"The more you TAKE, the more you pay proportionally" Shouldn't that read the more you MAKE, the more you will pay proportionally? Or are you insinuating that the top earners don't actually earn their money? What's your solution to "lopsided income distribution"?
By bigfresh (4173), north sea on Sep 7, 13 7:10 AM
Listen, you're a "hit and run" joker poster who doesn't think there is anything wrong with the way things are in your little test tube world. You are not worth debating, you are not worth my time, and I hope you're feeling better. That belt around your mid-section didn't look very comfortable.

I'll give you a start regarding your query, however. Stop the deregulation, stop the systemic rigging of the market and it's rules, and get corporations out of our government. And just for reference, ...more
Sep 7, 13 7:22 AM appended by Mr. Z
Oh, and when the rules are rigged, the word "take" is more than rather appropriate.
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 7, 13 7:22 AM
1 member liked this comment
Short of revolution, I don't see this changing. Sad but true. But it's not like people don't have opportunity here and that's where I split from the liberal crowd. Education, hard work, ideas, responsibility are still the ingredients for success. A govt that subsidizes and virtually guarantees poverty sure as heck isn't the answer either. Getting back on topic, our country seems to be fixated on what goes on beyond our gates more so than the rot happening inside. And bombs will drop.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 7, 13 9:13 AM
Btw Z, your posts more than anyone else's have actually made me go, "hmmmm I didn't consider that." Not blowing smoke as I don't know you and have nothing to gain. I don't even agree with you many times, but I do appreciate what you have to say. That's the reason these boards are worthwhile. If we consider another point of view one time in a hundred, then these things are worth the effort. If the goal is to spew rhetoric with hopes of validation from anonymous strangers, then perhaps a walk in the ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 7, 13 9:48 AM
Thanks DS.

You understand why many of us take the time to post here, and thanks for the boost. And, I must say I do find a walk in the woods rather productive for other reasons.

Cheers...
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 7, 13 12:18 PM
This is obamas economy... and obamas CHICKENS have come home to roost,

Now it looks like he will have to eat his peas.
By joe hampton (3302), south hampton on Sep 7, 13 7:11 AM
Was that a Colorado crack?
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 7, 13 7:55 AM
Lot of truth in the above. Going from $85,000 engineering job to PT $8.50 at Target isn't progress. This President will likely be out of office when the real damage of Obamacare takes place.
If he can't muster up real Intl support then Syria will prove him to be ineffective on the big stage.
We shall see.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 7, 13 11:56 AM
Yet again, we allow corporations to hold our welfare hostage.

How many countries have universal health care, pay higher minimum wages, lower crime rates, a far lower incarceration rate per capita, and have a much lower degree of socioeconomic disparity than the United States? How is it that Australia, which has the highest minimum wage of all developed countries ($16.88 USD/hr), hasn't been in a recession for over twenty years?

The "kleptocracy" is in full control of propaganda, ...more
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 7, 13 12:39 PM
The wrong people running things or usurping power have made things too complex.

"It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong."

~ Thomas Sowell
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 7, 13 5:43 PM
You want to talk hate, and bigotry?

I hope the extremist right doesn't take over your utopian state of Texas. You'll most likely end up with a W.A.S.P. dystopian state, devoid of all people except Caucasians, absolutely no homosexuals, and I'd wonder how they'd plow and hew the fields...
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 7, 13 8:29 PM
Jimmy Carter must be smiling: Another president has finally broken the record he had held for the worst rate of participation in the job market by American workers in modern times.

The Bureau of Labor Statistics’ Friday job numbers show the nation’s “labor force participation rate” — i.e., the percentage of Americans over 16 who have jobs, or are looking for one — dipped to 63.2 percent.

That beats the sad record of 63.4 percent set in 1978, ...more
By Undocumented Democrat (1896), southampton on Sep 7, 13 11:34 PM
UD, you should check out this past article from the Washington Post. It's called "Experts explain 2011 in charts". It has plenty of pictures, so it should be easy to grasp.

You may find it interesting how skyrocketing medical costs have become the largest proponent of driving our nation's debt. You also may find chart 12 interesting, as it shows the near doubling of the hours of work required for a median worker to earn rent since 1980. You also may find how TFP has nearly flatlined ...more
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 8, 13 8:32 AM
The economy could be doing better, and WOULD be doing better had the malingering House Republicans not repeatedly sabotaged the economy of the country in their zealous commitment to their extremist ideology. (For instance, had they not stonewalled the Jobs Bill of 2011, so many more Americans would have jobs now.)

Nevertheless, despite their obstructionism, the President and the Democratic Congress have lowered the unemployment rate to 7.2% from the 10.0% level for which George the Worst ...more
By highhatsize (3930), East Quogue on Sep 7, 13 1:16 PM
1 member liked this comment
We have a real unemployment and under employment rates near 16 percent. You can't count people making $8 an hour at walmart as employed or a person that works at a fast food restaurant. They are wards of the state.
By chief1 (2637), southampton on Sep 7, 13 4:19 PM
For reference, Glass-Steagall was repealed in 1999.

The mortgage bubble popped because Greenspan raised rates over a dozen times before he left office in 2006. Greenspan WAS the Fed. Since 1987, he had ALWAYS kept rates low and put a floor to the market when greedheads wrecked their portfolios. No "socialism" or nanny state there harboring and rewarding failure. He felt these were ways to encourage investment, and he also firmly believed securitization spread risk. He was dead wrong. ...more
Sep 7, 13 5:06 PM appended by Mr. Z
"Age of Greed", by Jeff Madrick
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 7, 13 5:06 PM
And, just for reference, Greenspan is the idiot who blackballed Brooksley Born, and her concept release.

You should check out the release sometime...
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 7, 13 5:32 PM
Someone kick the broken record player that is HHS the ideological needle is stuck in the vinyl groove again
By joe hampton (3302), south hampton on Sep 7, 13 10:41 PM
Raise the minimum wage,cutting excessive corporate profits, so they can stop spending countless millions on such piggish stuff such as naming stadiums. The federal government is subsidizing corporate profits.
By Mets fan (1390), Southampton on Sep 8, 13 9:16 AM
1 member liked this comment
I read Robert Reich's "Aftershock" about two years ago. His film "Inequality For All" is coming out on DVD. Regardless of political affiliation, or what one may think of Reich this film is a must see.
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 10, 13 10:05 PM
to Captn America:

Quote: "With so much obstruction, how is it exactly and by what specific policies is it that allowed ""the President and the Democratic Congress" to have lowered the unemployment rate to 7.2% from the 10.0% level"? I would suggest that has taken place, in spite of Washington, and not because of it and giving credit to one side is just as ridiculous as blaming one side."

It is the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (i.e. the Stimulus Act) that is responsible ...more
By highhatsize (3930), East Quogue on Sep 7, 13 6:05 PM
What will HHS, Phil , Z and PBR say if it comes out that Assad wasn't responsible for this terrible atrocity but it was the rebels, it will seem that obama's plan to attack Assad, stems from his intention of backing al Qaida and the Muslim brotherhood; exactly as he does with all of the Arab countries, one after another.
By Undocumented Democrat (1896), southampton on Sep 7, 13 11:31 PM
Ridiculous post as usual

By Mets fan (1390), Southampton on Sep 8, 13 9:20 AM
to Captn American:

Quote: " ... only one [party] compromised on a tax increase."
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Is THAT what "compromise" means.

"compromise (verb): to be powerless to prevent"

As in, "The Republicans compromised on higher taxes for the wealthy, never voting for them, but being unable to stop the scheduled increases from automatically taking place."

I always thought that it had something to do with ...more
By highhatsize (3930), East Quogue on Sep 8, 13 11:56 PM
to Captn America;

With or without Republican votes, the tax rate for the wealthy was returning to 39.6% in 2013 thanks to the automatic expiration of George the Worst's tax break for the rich. The bill that they voted for DECREASED taxes for lesser incomes. They compromised on nothing.

I would appreciate it if you would indicate a "Republican jobs bill" that was anything other than a misnomered sweetener for the wealthy and for corporations.

Since you cannot contravene ...more
By highhatsize (3930), East Quogue on Sep 10, 13 11:58 PM
<----Beep Beep Hollywood Klown Car coming by,

What happened to all those bold, principled, sincere anti-war celebrities from the Bush years. They seem to have crawled under various rocks now that a Democrat President is eager to launch a war of choice in defense of Muslim principals against a country that hasn't attacked American interests. Wherefore art thou, Sheryl Crow and Bruce Springsteen? Whassup, Janeane Garofalo? Not even a peep out of two-fisted anti-war activist Sean Penn? ...more
By They call me (2623), southampton on Sep 7, 13 10:51 PM
“A lot of people don’t want to feel anti-black by being opposed to Obama,” Ed Asner tells The Hollywood Reporter.
By loading... (553), quiogue on Sep 8, 13 10:33 AM
why are there no women commenting on this topic?
By rabbit (65), watermill on Sep 8, 13 10:04 AM
1 member liked this comment
Most of them are busy over at TMZ,


“I think it’s me and a few others, but yeah, [I dumped Taylor Swift]."

--Joe Jonas to Joan Rivers on -- gasp! -- having the stones to dump Taylor Swift via text message. It's apparently confirmed that it literally happened, guys, and not only that, but Joe went a step further and threw in "and a few others" as a backhanded insult for good measure,
By Undocumented Democrat (1896), southampton on Sep 8, 13 11:18 AM
I dont read that tmz crap, actually i was reading an artical in the atlantic and one of the comments confused me, it was a poem.it read like this,



Let Freedom Ring

The most corruption we have ever seen,
Is coming from “The Messiah” Obama regime.
Pathological liars one and all,
King Obama trying to stall.

Obama’s corrupt as one can be,
From the IRS, Benghazi and AP.
Fast and Furious was number one,
And lives were lost ...more
By Erin 27 E (1180), southampton on Sep 8, 13 7:19 PM
1 member liked this comment
Greek.
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 8, 13 7:39 PM
Molon labe is a Greek phrase. Its English translation is often heard from pro-Second Amendment activists as a defense of the right to keep and bear arms. It began to appear on web sites in the late 1990s and early 2000s. The phrase has again gained popularity among supporters of the Second Amendment, as it has the connotation of a strong belief in the ideals of personal freedom and in the individual right to self-protection
By loading... (553), quiogue on Sep 8, 13 11:07 PM
The Syrian government killed 100,000 rebels in the last 2 years. Where was Obama when this was going on? Now that he used gas it is different? Murder is murder no matter how it happens.
By chief1 (2637), southampton on Sep 8, 13 12:20 PM
1 member liked this comment
This thread went way awry as hey usually do here. Now that it's back to Syria, an objective look at the timing and outcome of the attacks should raise serious doubt as to Obama's claims of Assad being behind these attacks. People are so easily swayed and played with mention of chemical weapons and gas. The videos being released should raise even more doubt, why are none of the responders wearing protective clothing or masks? Military grade Sarin would still be dangerous to come in contact with hours ...more
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Sep 8, 13 2:16 PM
Sadam gased 82,000 Kurds and they were against us going in. Why the change in hart now ???
UD Said What will HHS, Phil , Z and PBR say if it comes out that Assad wasn't responsible for this terrible atrocity but it was the rebels, it will seem that obama's plan to attack Assad, stems from his intention of backing al Qaida and the Muslim brotherhood; exactly as he does with all of the Arab countries, one after another.

Makes you wonder does it not ???




By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 8, 13 2:58 PM
Seems you can only go to war without Congress if you are a Republican president...
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 8, 13 8:56 PM
Phil, It's not just the far righties, it's also the lack of moderation on this board. People can type whatever they want with no fear of bring banned, suspended or even spanked. No repercussions = no restraint.
By dnice (2342), Hampton Bays on Sep 8, 13 10:08 PM
2 members liked this comment
because people from those towns act like animals
By Erin 27 E (1180), southampton on Sep 9, 13 6:33 PM
Obama is Wall Streets "boy".
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Sep 11, 13 3:15 AM
This thread went way awry as hey usually do here. Now that it's back to Syria, an objective look at the timing and outcome of the attacks should raise serious doubt as to Obama's claims of Assad being behind these attacks. People are so easily swayed and played with mention of chemical weapons and gas. The videos being released should raise even more doubt, why are none of the responders wearing protective clothing or masks? Military grade Sarin would still be dangerous to come in contact with hours ...more
By ICE (1214), Southampton on Sep 8, 13 2:16 PM
IMO, the President has not made the case for the use of force. Nobody knows what a "punishment" strike is or if it will actually have any tactical benefit. In short, the President has created a lot of confusion and quite the mess for himself. To question his leadership on this seems natural to me.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 9, 13 8:33 AM
On September 2, 2013 at 10:00 AM (exactly one week ago) the following post was made above, as a suggested path for logical thinking about the situation in Syria. We have not yet completed step number one.
___________________________________________________

1. UN report
2. Congressional debate
3. Consultation with other countries
4. Cast the die
. . .
5. Patience
_______________________________________

Inferences drawn from the above are not the responsibility ...more
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 9, 13 10:04 AM
I don't get it. Obama is pretty much saying "It's going to be but a tiny little strike. You'll hardly notice it. But we have to do it, because Assad needs the message. But you'll hardly notice. But we have to make a stand. Just a quiet little stand." Mixed signals - no clear objective etc. The whole thing is just weird. No political leanings from me, just calling the game as I see it. Very weird goings on. I understand the case to hit Assad, but we have turned International affairs into reality ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 9, 13 4:49 PM
I agree with you, Phil. It is sad. I always thought the key to all of this would be Russia. I just read the following: Syria welcomes Russia's proposal for Damascus to put its chemical weapons under international control: Foreign Minister Walid Al-Moualem (Reuters)

So if the saber rattling ends and Assad losses his ability to use Chem weapons again, then that's a big plus without a strike. Other side of the coin, no pint of blood from Assad. No solution is perfect here, but this could be ...more
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 9, 13 6:34 PM
I agree with you twice today, Phil. See? We don't always have to fight. Let's enjoy a truce for the day, shall we?
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 9, 13 6:44 PM
Nobody will know because nobody reads my posts. The secret is safe.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Sep 9, 13 7:48 PM
Not true we all read your posts and have for years
By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 9, 13 9:40 PM
I think this can be summed up quite simply, fool me once (Iraq) shame on you. Fool me twice (Syria) shame on me. America should pass on this, let the regional powers deal with this issue or better yet, let the Syrians resolve their civil war on their own. No need for this country to go to war because the President misspoke or made claims he could not substantiate. Polling on the Long Island Patch sites show that 8 out of 10 Long Islanders oppose intervention in Syria, Tim Bishop should not ...more
By Conservative Undeground (4), East Hampton on Sep 9, 13 2:15 PM
1 member liked this comment
"Actually, The president is playing it smart- future presidents won't be able to unilaterally commit troops to an armed conflict, and now the republicans will have no way to support future involvements without the consent of congress."

Probably a lot of truth to this and if so a much better precedent to follow for future Presidents.
By dnice (2342), Hampton Bays on Sep 9, 13 9:26 PM
Susan Rice to Argue for Syria on 1-Year Anniversary of Benghazi Attack


Maybe she can go back on 9 Sunday shows and make some more stuff up
By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 9, 13 9:45 PM
1 member liked this comment
President Obama Job Approval
USA Today/Pew Research

Approve 43
Disapprove 52

Disapprove +9.0
By Undocumented Democrat (1896), southampton on Sep 9, 13 10:14 PM
Why is this is being ignored in the press

The village of Maaloula has been taken over by Syrian rebels associated with al Qaeda, who have stormed the Christian center and offered local Christians a choice: conversion or death. A resident of the town said the rebels shouted “Allahu Akhbar” as they moved through the village, and proceeded to assault Christian homes and churches.


“They shot and killed people,” he said. “I heard gunshots and then ...more
By Undocumented Democrat (1896), southampton on Sep 9, 13 10:21 PM
UD, there is a lot that goes unreported in the press when it does not fit there pre prescribed narrative take this little bed time story for example,


A 62-year-old man who was brutally attacked in Union Square last week died Monday.

On Wednesday, a man shouting that he “hated white people” punched victim Jeffrey Babbitt — who is white — in the face, witnesses said, causing him to fall and strike his head on the ground.

Lashawn Marten, 31, ...more
By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 10, 13 12:41 AM
who is black, “made statements to the effect that I’m going to punch the first white man that I see,” said NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly. If Mr Babbitt rest his soul would have stood his ground it has been said he would be in court defending his freedom but since he did not he is dead. I guess it really is is better to be judged by 12 then carried by 6

By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 10, 13 12:45 AM
It's called diplomacy. In the end this is what everybody wants instead of dropping bombs Interesting interview with Charlie Rose and Assad this morning. Always more complicated than face value. Assad claims he is protecting Syria from outside terrorists and those that were against him in his country are now back with him.
By Mets fan (1390), Southampton on Sep 10, 13 8:26 AM
1 member liked this comment
Listen " Mets fan because they are the under dogs " You are consistently for anything that is the opposite of the right thing, an MSNBC cheerleader who hates success, personal responsibility,and winners, You have spitefully come on here for years in favor of the occupiers the unions and the losers, You are a partisan hack green with envy, who will be lead over the cliff to destruction to save the first black president form the humiliation of his armature and ideological actions
By They call me (2623), southampton on Sep 10, 13 12:00 PM
First of all, I listen to Fox news, so actually I know exactly what your thinking at all times. I am the american dream. I came from humble beginnings and retired at age forty eight after building a business from the ground up. So to say I hate success is ridiculous. My business was non-union, so wrong again on that account. Better to be humiliated than to needlessly lose american lives. Get over your Vietnam era bravado.Half a generation later we are selling Big Macs and cokes there at the cost ...more
By Mets fan (1390), Southampton on Sep 10, 13 12:48 PM
1 member liked this comment
Here's a good one: Florida's former Gov. Jeb Bush (R) is giving former SoS Hillary Clinton this year's Liberty Medal from the National Constitution Center. Not only that, but the award will be presented to Clinton on September 10th, the eve of the first anniversary of the terrorist attack on the United States mission in Benghazi that killed four Americans. Bush, a possible GOP hopeful in the 2016 presidential race, is chairman of the board of trustees of the National Constitution Center located ...more
By loading... (553), quiogue on Sep 10, 13 9:23 AM
1 member liked this comment
Preliator and Captn America's teabagging bromance is getting out of control. What happened, did one of you catch the other steeping someone else's tea?
By witch hazel (224), tatooine on Sep 10, 13 4:29 PM
1 member liked this comment
very mature
By Erin 27 E (1180), southampton on Sep 10, 13 5:44 PM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By witch hazel (224), tatooine on Sep 10, 13 4:41 PM
1 member liked this comment
The man Obama looks like a real idiot in front of the whole world. The Russians on the other hand have Putin making Obama and John Kerry look like his puppet. This country has really gone down the tubes and Obama is one of the prime suspects for this. Witch hazel why don't you snap out of it and admit that you're a liberal and you don't like war. if Obama wants war that's okay with you because you are a follower and I don't know why you talk about people in the Tea Party what does that have to do ...more
By chief1 (2637), southampton on Sep 10, 13 5:09 PM
phil you said i see the captain and preliator aren't condemning erin's obviously racist post.

excuse me but my post said nothing about color i was referring to the crime in those areas, i happen to work in the court system trust me there is a disproportionate number of crimes from those towns. i do not clam to know why, i can just tell you there is
By Erin 27 E (1180), southampton on Sep 10, 13 5:43 PM
do the parents know your a socialist
By joe hampton (3302), south hampton on Sep 10, 13 7:28 PM
i think he was referring to you students parents,

duh
By Erin 27 E (1180), southampton on Sep 11, 13 5:39 PM
Obama has played this brilliantly and you need look no further than this board for proof - the teapartiers and neocons are foaming at the mouth and turning dovish! Obama showed strength and forced Putin to the table, which, in turn, has forced Assad to face reality. This is a huge victory for Obama either way. The right have proved themselves cowards and Obama has shown that intelligence, patience and diplomacy will always win the day. By the way, the last president to have to face the issue of ...more
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Sep 10, 13 5:49 PM
Think i will skip tonights PERFORMANCE and watch the history channel

It is just going to be a speech about what we aren't doing in stead of what we are going to do separated by a bunch of I I I I I I I 's
By They call me (2623), southampton on Sep 10, 13 7:40 PM
I got somthing out of this :
Lawmakers Ousted in Recall Vote Over Gun Law
The Dem. president of Colorado’s Senate, who pushed to pass a slate of tough new gun-control laws, conceded defeat on Tuesday in a recall vote widely seen as a test of popular support for gun restrictions. The election, which came 5 months after the US Senate defeated several gun restrictions, handed another loss to gun-control supporters. and gave moderate lawmakers across the country a warning about the political ...more
By They call me (2623), southampton on Sep 11, 13 2:48 PM
I have just watched the President's address to the nation regarding the growing crisis in Syria and within the Obama Administration. Nothing the President has said tonight has caused me to change my mind. No, we should not intervene in a civil war. Yes, while the deaths of those 1400 people to gas is horrific those deaths were no more or less than the 100,000 that have already died in this war; the President could have intervened years ago just as he did in Libya and chose not to. No, there is no ...more
By Conservative Undeground (4), East Hampton on Sep 10, 13 9:40 PM
Address to the Nation on the Terrorist Attacks
September 11, 2001
Public Papers of the Presidents
George W. Bush2001: Book II
George W. Bush
2001: Book II
video
Location:

District of Columbia
Washington
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The American Presidency Project

Promote Your ...more
By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 11, 13 8:02 AM
Rotten Apple... Stock falls and Its about time, break free of the control buy Android
By joe hampton (3302), south hampton on Sep 11, 13 2:38 PM
excuse me but my post said nothing about color i was referring to the crime in those areas, i happen to work in the court system trust me there is a disproportionate number of crimes from those towns. i do not clam to know why, i can just tell you there is
8 members liked this comment
joe hampton, loading..., 27dan, Undocumented Democrat, They call me, chief1, Mr. Snerdley, Preliator
thank you for your support and your ability to see the truth that is in front of your face!
By Erin 27 E (1180), southampton on Sep 11, 13 5:37 PM
1 member liked this comment
your welcome
By Undocumented Democrat (1896), southampton on Sep 11, 13 5:44 PM
A great big Thank You to all the bikers who are supporting America by riding through the streets of DC. Way to go!!

By They call me (2623), southampton on Sep 11, 13 10:57 PM
1 member liked this comment
Very funny stuff, check out the Second City Television spoof video mirroring one of camp Obama's campaign plugs: "The World War III Project:. Great comedy certainly does have an element of truth. Because Obama.

My favorite: “World War III is not going to be like those other Republican wars fought on just 1 percent of the world. This war is going to be fought on 99 percent of the world."
By Mr. Snerdley (392), Southampton on Sep 12, 13 10:49 AM

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid on Thursday said “anarchists” have taken over Congress.

You mean Patriots!

How does it feel to deal with a more educated public Harry !


By joe hampton (3302), south hampton on Sep 12, 13 11:01 AM
3 members liked this comment
Survey says:

[buzzer]

Not the most popular answer...
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 12, 13 4:06 PM
Really I thought it was a great statement
By They call me (2623), southampton on Sep 12, 13 10:59 PM
Joe calling those inept morons "Patriots" is the wrong answer.

Public servants are there for their electorate. I'll give you a fine example of one:

If you’re caught with an ounce of cocaine, the chances are good you’re gonna go to jail. If it happens repeatedly, you may go to jail for the rest of your life. But evidently if you launder nearly a billion dollars for drug cartels and violate our international sanctions, your company pays a fine and you go home and sleep ...more
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 13, 13 12:19 PM
1 member liked this comment
"We didn't start the fire"


However, it most likely will still burn like mad after we've all been gone.
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 12, 13 4:10 PM
Recalled CO Senator Blames 'Voter Suppression' for Loss
Colorado state senator Angela Giron (D-Pueblo) says that Tuesday's recall election ousting her and John Morse (D-Colo. Springs) succeeded because of "voter suppression." lol
They will come up with any excuse to avoid the truth as to why they were recalled.
By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 12, 13 11:26 PM
1 member liked this comment
enjoy your day at work
By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 13, 13 5:25 AM
Statism and Progressive Fascism is the disease that has infected both parties. however, the Democrat party is almost completely consumed with it; there is still hope for the Republicans, though. Conservatism must eject such progressives as McCain, Graham, Romney, Boehner, etc.
By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 13, 13 9:49 AM
That is correct... the time has come for the government to stop "putting a thumb on the scale" for African Americans with affirmative action policies.
Sep 13, 13 7:42 PM appended by joe hampton
We are all Americans and after the last election future favoritism can only cause more divisiveness
By joe hampton (3302), south hampton on Sep 13, 13 7:42 PM
More blather from someone firmly attached to the government teat for his very survival! Some time in the private sector would be a nice dose of reality, see how you like living in the world your boy Barry has created.
By bigfresh (4173), north sea on Sep 13, 13 11:10 AM
Right. Obama has created this mess. Once again you demonstrate your stunning ignorance.

3 conservatives who deserve blame for the Republican destruction of the economy

By Robert Sobel

When the economy crashed in 2008, the markets on Wall Street went into panic. Big banks and investment companies started pulling their hair out, not knowing what the next day would bring. Despite backlash, President George W. Bush signed a bailout of the banks on wall street for over $700 ...more
Sep 14, 13 7:44 PM appended by Mr. Z
In 1981 M2 was approximately 1.8 trillion dollars. By 1996, it had risen to 3.8 trillion. By 2006 it rose to about 6.6 trillion dollars. As of this month, it is has exceeded 10.8 trillion dollars. By the new year, it will exceed 11 trillion. At the current rate of fiat currency creation and thanks to the destruction of our progressive tax system, it should really be no surprise that millions are out of work, commodity prices are through the roof, a run for elected office costs over 2 million dollars, and some idiot has this much monopoly money to pi$$ away on a strip of ground by sitting at the right hand of the printing press. The system is broken, folks...
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 13, 13 7:44 PM
foolish assumption for a foolish person
By joe hampton (3302), south hampton on Sep 13, 13 7:44 PM
Phil, you're being too defensive.

I'm reasonably sure joe was agreeing with you for once.
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 13, 13 7:59 PM
and i am reasonably sure you are the same person
By Undocumented Democrat (1896), southampton on Sep 13, 13 10:54 PM
And I'm reasonably sure you're so far off base, you're AWOL.

And Phil, I may have a DDR2 upgrade for your old junker. In the middle of three refurbs right now.
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 13, 13 11:15 PM
This can't be for real
Attorney General Eric Holder and IRS officials advised black ministers on how to engage in political activity during the 2012 election without violating their tax-exempt status.
By Undocumented Democrat (1896), southampton on Sep 13, 13 10:53 PM
The job of the Attorney General is LAW ENFORCEMENT, not favoring a specific racial group! Just another example of our racist POS POTUS and His posse in action.
By bigfresh (4173), north sea on Sep 15, 13 6:50 AM
1 member liked this comment
He favors your wealthy patrons over everyone else. In fact, the office declined to prosecute anyone except bit players.

Oh, but that benefits you...
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 15, 13 3:11 PM
Now football players can't play in a storm anymore? Don't hit to hard......don't touch the quarterback. This is getting nuts.

Come on NFL you are trying to turn this into Powder Puff Ball. Goodell has ruined this sport...i'm not watching anymore NFL games until Goodell resigns

Oh wait... Good news: the rain delay is over. Just as soon as the players put on their sun dresses, the game will resume.
Sep 16, 13 12:40 AM appended by joe hampton
Oh sorry I was supposed to only care about Syria Well its all connected this dam PC progressive ridiculous mess we created
By joe hampton (3302), south hampton on Sep 16, 13 12:40 AM
I've survived a lightning strike. Trust me you don't want the experience.

It wasn't the rain genius. And, the rule changes are somewhat understandable. "Back in the day" when football players practiced shirtless, they looked like your average everyday American male. Now they look like jacked up gym freaks, benching 350.

f = m x a
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 16, 13 1:11 AM
2 members liked this comment
Wish they would hurry up and invent time travel so I could go back to 1985 and be happy
By joe hampton (3302), south hampton on Sep 16, 13 12:46 AM
1598!

So he could co-exist happily with the Native Americans who were here long before most of us!
By PBR (4900), Southampton on Sep 16, 13 8:25 AM
1 member liked this comment
Which marks the beginning of the destruction of the middle class
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Sep 16, 13 9:09 AM
2 members liked this comment
Today, surounded by union workers BHO said Americans benefited from this administration's economic policies. then says his administration has laid a "new foundation" for a stronger economy. But then admits the benefits are not being felt by many middle class Americans ???
This from a lawyer who sued CITIBANK, to force loans to people who could not afford the loans. How does paying people to work in the short term, Create long term jobs, Especially with Obama Care forcing employers to cut hours ...more
By Undocumented Democrat (1896), southampton on Sep 16, 13 9:20 PM
1 member liked this comment
The biggest step forward is to educate people. Washington Irving did not write history. Christopher Columbus did not sail the Atlantic because the world was flat. Henry Wadsworth Longfellow did not write history. Israel Bissell warned the colonies, not Paul Revere. Everyone has heard of Edison, but how many learned about Tesla? The biggest part of the problem in today's society is the "history" most people believe is B*******.

The current Oligarchy needs to be brought to an end. All this ...more
Sep 16, 13 9:36 PM appended by Mr. Z
Obama admits 95% of income gains gone to top 1% ~AND~ Employment Inequality: Job Gap Between Rich And Poor Widest On Record ~AND~ Socioeconomic disparity is poised to reach highest recorded level ever. Current record was in 2007.
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 16, 13 9:36 PM
@ marlinspike: You're dead wrong.

@ UD.

Well over half of the ARM mortgages which were pushed by Greenspan, issued by banks, and which created deferred risk via securitization would not have triggered the mortgage crisis if Alan Greenspan didn't raise interest rates over a dozen times before leaving office in 2006. The vast majority of these mortgages would not have tanked the market, or been unaffordable were it not for the Fed's actions. It would have been a blip on the radar, ...more
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 16, 13 11:45 PM
1 member liked this comment
No, you didn't.

That was directed at UD. Stop being egocentric.

And, you are dead wrong. Middle class wages, and buying power have steadily decreased for over 20 years.
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 17, 13 5:41 PM
obama in todays speech was back to his hyper-partisan self, with a slandering attack on Republicans. Even saying at one point speaking of the Republicans, " well some of them are decent." Quite a remarkable thing for a president to say if you expect any cooperation. And to do this within minutes of 13 Naval employees, brave Americans lying dead, was in extremely bad taste. He could have waited until tomorrow. but you know this administrations motto " Never waste a good crisis"
By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 16, 13 9:02 PM
1 member liked this comment
It hasn't always been the case that only MPs can carry firearms on U.S. military bases. A mere twenty years ago, "gun free zones" made their way to these facilities under the watch of President Bill Clinton.

Anyway... New Benghazi oversight report is asking why Patrick Kennedy was not held accountable.... I have a bigger question why not obama and Hilary
By joe hampton (3302), south hampton on Sep 17, 13 11:04 AM
CIA black op.
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 17, 13 12:01 PM
1 member liked this comment
I was just reading about Franchise restaurant owners who are coming to Washington seeking a change to ObamaCare that they say could prevent them from having to cut their employees’ hours.
The healthcare law requires large employers to provide insurance to employees who work at least 30 hours per week.
Fast Food Franchise owners say the employer mandate threatens to erase their narrow profit margins and are telling lawmakers they need to overhaul the law before it’s too late.

By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 17, 13 6:07 PM
I want the folks flipping my Big Macs to make at least 25 bucks an hour with a medical and retirement package and the month of Aug. off. I also want an EPA approved restaurant exhaust venting system that removes all the CO2 from the atmosphere. all the beef is to be grass fed with no steroids. And I want the Big Mac to be on the dollar meal menu, I also want an Iphone charging station at each table, a free electric hook up for my car and a copy of Das Kapital on each condiment station. Oh, and I ...more
By Undocumented Democrat (1896), southampton on Sep 17, 13 6:16 PM
You guys are still arguing about whose side is better. It's like looking at two turds and choosing which one you want to follow.
By dnice (2342), Hampton Bays on Sep 17, 13 6:28 PM
2 members liked this comment
With all due respect, how come obama did not come out and say if I had a son he might look like Aaron Alexis
By They call me (2623), southampton on Sep 18, 13 5:53 PM
Also where is Eric Holder this time asking for an honest discussion about race. The whole thing stinks of an anti white administration full of double standards.

If I hated a race, I might campaign to flood all of their countries with MILLIONS of people that are not their race, and tell everyone to “mix in” until no people of that kind were left.

Very clever who are the real racists ?
By They call me (2623), southampton on Sep 18, 13 6:01 PM
I was reading an article in time magazine that was promoting the idea that all people will become a light brown mix in the future. It seemed happy with the notion that you would not be able to tell one culture from another. Personally I think people with blond hair and blue eyes are beautiful just as there are beautiful black people it seems the left is always saying they want diversity with the exception of race.
By Erin 27 E (1180), southampton on Sep 18, 13 8:12 PM
Hold on there TCM you not supposed notice or say things like that in public,

Don't you know Barry is friends with JAY - Z
By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 18, 13 6:03 PM
President Barack Obama made an appeal on Wednesday to urge Congress to approve an increase in the U.S. debt limit without any conditions attached.

The problem is spending .. not the debt limit. It isn't that we need MORE debt, the crisis is that we need to balance the budget and start paying down the $ 16,944,725,022,460 debt. America's budget is no different than the family budget. If I keep going beyond my limit for debt, nothing but financial disaster lies ahead. We need to elect leaders ...more
By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 18, 13 6:17 PM
1 member liked this comment
seems to me you should not spend what you dont have, simple
By Erin 27 E (1180), southampton on Sep 18, 13 8:06 PM
1 member liked this comment
"Live within your means"

dammit, now I'm a brain dead moron
By loading... (553), quiogue on Sep 18, 13 8:16 PM
As I folded opened my NY Times This morning at the golden pear over some Biscotti & Espresso I was aghast at what I encounterd in the op-ed...

New York Times

Losing the Room

By MAUREEN DOWD
Published: September 17, 2013

The 12 who died were, after all, under the presidents aegis as workers in a federal building.

But, jarringly, the president went ahead with his political attack, briefly addressing the slaughter before moving on to jab Republicans ...more
By joe hampton (3302), south hampton on Sep 18, 13 7:15 PM
What happened to those kids was tragic beyond words and your on going politicization of that event is sad and very desperate.Just because you had a twisted kid flip out . You want to take away responsible peoples right to bear arms.Well I happen to believe in the saying" when guns are outlawed only the outlaws will have guns" but you still want to make it sound like we don't care about those poor children.... Well, we do... but it does not change the fact we have a duty to defend our nation our ...more
By joe hampton (3302), south hampton on Sep 19, 13 1:22 AM
1 member liked this comment
You never said you want to take away responsible people's right to bear arms?


Good then we agree
By joe hampton (3302), south hampton on Sep 19, 13 6:59 AM
HUSSEIN, that is all!
By bigfresh (4173), north sea on Sep 19, 13 6:21 AM
You mean the fascist, power mad dictator Reagan installed in Iraq?
Sep 19, 13 7:56 AM appended by Mr. Z
And, in the Middle East Hussein is kin to Smith in America you dolt.
By Mr. Z (11018), North Sea on Sep 19, 13 7:56 AM
Obama declared in a speech today.

"Raising the debt ceiling doesn't increase the nation's debt"

Really?

If you do not want to increase the debt, then there is absolutely no reason to raise the debt ceiling

Raising the debt ceiling, does not Increase our debt,

Though It Has 'Over 100 Times !

Its not obama himself that we hate just being lied to!
By Undocumented Democrat (1896), southampton on Sep 19, 13 7:13 AM
1 member liked this comment
$ 1 6 , 7 4 1 , 9 3 8 , 8 2 5 , 8 3 9 . 5 3

Good Lord!
By They call me (2623), southampton on Sep 19, 13 1:19 PM
obama consulted NY Times editors, columnists on Syria strategy

WTF!

So when did BHO appoint the NY Slimes to his WH Cabinet? Arrogant and Clueless is no way to run the USA,..... get the Hook, this act has failed.

Embarrassing to say the least.
By They call me (2623), southampton on Sep 19, 13 1:10 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 19, 13 2:36 PM
off-the-record private groveling to the MSM....clearly unscrupulous and oh so transparent
By loading... (553), quiogue on Sep 20, 13 12:43 AM
1 member liked this comment
Pandering to the media that put Him into office in the first place! Your boy Barry has to go! Why no budget Phil??!! Probably because He doesn't want to be connected to anything , except His almighty Obamacare.
By bigfresh (4173), north sea on Sep 20, 13 6:57 AM
KATTY KAY: Aren’t we in the situation where if the fed cut this stimulus money we might be worse off?

RON PAUL: It can't get worse. To continue to destroy our currency is always bad. Always bad. It always destroys the middle class and the wealthy get wealthier. This is the prediction of Austrian economics for 100 years. This is exactly what we're witnessing, those predictions that the wealthy get wealthier, the poor get poorer, and the middle class gets wiped out. So, no. All inflation ...more
By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 20, 13 9:14 PM
2 members liked this comment
"To continue to destroy our currency is always bad. Always bad."
The wisdom of Ron Paul
By loading... (553), quiogue on Sep 25, 13 12:05 AM
wait and see......
By loading... (553), quiogue on Sep 25, 13 12:26 AM
Scarborough: "White Liberals In The Suburbs" Oppose Stop-and-Frisk While People Are Dying In Our Inner Cities
JOE SCARBOROUGH: Let me just throw this out there right now, people in those neighborhoods in Chicago, a lot of them, a lot of law-abiding citizens, would say, "do you know if there's a version of stop-and-frisk you can import from New York to our neighborhood?" While there's a lot of white liberals in the suburbs that love like wringing their hands and being self-righteous ...more
By They call me (2623), southampton on Sep 20, 13 10:16 PM
$ 1 6 , 7 4 4 , 1 7 3 , 1 4 7 , 0 3 8 . 4 7
By They call me (2623), southampton on Sep 22, 13 5:39 PM
SEN. TED CRUZ: Chris, what's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. You're right, that is one rule. But there is another rule that says it takes 60 votes to get cloture. And that's the reason the Senate, generally, on controversial votes, we work out an agreement for it to be subject to a 60 vote threshold because the majority -- if the majority is going to run the minority over with a train, the minority has the ability to stop them.

And so, if Harry Reid says, you know what, I'm ...more
By They call me (2623), southampton on Sep 22, 13 10:35 PM
CAIRO (AP) -- An Egyptian court has banned the Muslim Brotherhood group and ordered its assets confiscated in a dramatic escalation of a crackdown by the military-backed government against supporters of the ousted Islamist president Mohammed Morsi.

Finally these people show some backbone and make a choice in a positive direction
By They call me (2623), southampton on Sep 23, 13 8:16 AM
1 member liked this comment

Doctors Brace for Surge of Ailing Patients...
Frustration Mounts,

T-MINUS 7 DAYS....... Obama-Hillary-Care is just another govt tax scam to milk the American people.

Please sign dontfundobamacare.c o m now. Call your Senators and Congressmen. Come on people, stand up and fight!
By 27dan (2635), Southampton on Sep 23, 13 12:35 PM
Southampton, Riverhead Building Supply, Supplies