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Feb 7, 2018 10:01 AMPublication: The Southampton Press

U.S. Representative Lee Zeldin Says He Was Outraged Over Nunes Memo

U.S. Representative Lee Zeldin at press conference in Riverhead in January.  DANA SHAW
Feb 7, 2018 11:51 AM

Since the release of the “Nunes memo,” U.S. Representative Lee Zeldin has been vocal across multiple platforms about the wide swath of abuses he feels were committed by the Department of Justice and FBI during the 2016 presidential campaign.

The memo, penned by the Republican staff of the House Intelligence Committee at the direction of Chairman Devin Nunes, a Republican U.S. representative from California, centers on the process by which members of the Department of Justice and FBI obtained permission under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA, to monitor former Donald Trump campaign adviser Carter Page and his ties to Russia.

In order to get permission to monitor someone through FISA, members of the intelligence community must obtain a warrant from a judge in a special FISA court, and that warrant must be renewed every 90 days, each renewal requiring a separate probable cause.

The Republican memo—and Mr. Zeldin—allege that FBI and DOJ officials withheld important information from the judge issuing the warrant, and that the monitoring of Mr. Page was politically motivated to dig up evidence to be used in the investigation of allegations of the Trump campaign’s collusion with Russia.”

In an interview on Tuesday, Mr. Zeldin took issue with many facets of the “Steele dossier,” a report put together by former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele, which details allegations of misconduct between the Trump campaign and the Russians, and which formed some of the basis of justification to monitor Mr. Page.

“Relative to the FISA court, they were not informed that the dossier was funded by the [Democratic National Committee] and Hillary for America. The FBI knew that Steele was a compromised source and didn’t fire him after the FISA application was submitted …” Mr. Zeldin said, listing just a couple of the ways he believes that Mr. Steele and the dossier were tainted.

Questions about whether the court knew that the dossier was partially funded by the Democratic Party groups have formed the central point of debate in the wake of the memo’s release. Democrats claim that the Republican memo omitted a footnote from the FBI in the original classified materials that explicitly acknowledges the political motivations behind the dossier, and plan to include it in their own rebutting memo, if the Trump administration clears it for public release.

Mr. Nunes and fellow House Intelligence Committee member Republican U.S. Representative Trey Gowdy of South Carolina have both acknowledged the footnote, although they claim that it is not specific enough in naming the political entities.

U.S. Representative Adam Schiff, a ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee from California, has countered that it is customary for the FBI to leave its sources unnamed.

Mr. Zeldin also takes issue with the dossier’s author himself. He claims that Mr. Steele was a “compromised source” after leaking information to various press outlets and that he held personal anti-Trump bias.

It is still unclear if Mr. Steele was rejected as a source by the FBI in October 2016, or if he left the relationship under his own steam. Glenn Simpson, the founder of Fusion GPS, which is the intelligence and research firm that retained Mr. Steele to create the dossier, said in testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee that Mr. Steele exited the relationship with the FBI out of concern about false information leaking to the press. That was after The New York Times published an article alleging that no connection had yet been forged between the Trump campaign and the Russians.

It has been reported that, previous to that, under the direction of Fusion at the end of September, Mr. Steele did brief reporters at various outlets including The Washington Post, The New York Times, Yahoo News, The New Yorker and CNN regarding alleged evidence of Russian interference in the election.

Additionally, before the memo’s publication, there was concern that it represented an attempt by some Republicans to undermine Special Prosecutor Robert Mueller’s investigation into the Trump campaign’s possible collusion with the Russians.

However, the memo itself made clear that the special prosecutor’s investigation was sparked when George Papadopoulos, a former adviser to the Trump campaign, told an Australian diplomat that the Russians had damaging information on Hillary Clinton before the hack into DNC servers became public knowledge. The FBI opened the investigation then in June 2016, three months before the first FISA application.

Mr. Zeldin said he disagreed with President Trump, who tweeted that the memo exonerated him from possible wrongdoing in conjunction with the Mueller probe, and that the investigation should continue unimpeded.

“The best course the president can take is to continue providing documents—I think the White House has provided something like 20,000 so far—and interviews so Mueller can end his investigation quickly,” he said. He added that he would defer to Mr. Trump’s attorneys about whether Mr. Trump should submit himself to an in-person interview with Mr. Mueller.

Moving forward, Mr. Zeldin said he believes that it is an opportunity to revise the FISA court system, and that the Democrat rebuttal memo—or “Schiff’s memo”—should be released as well, as soon as the FBI’s sources and methods are redacted.

“If you’re looking at this from a neutral frame of reference, you can see that improvements need to be made to courts,” he said. “I support the Schiff memo’s release. I support more information being released than not released.”

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This November, remember:

Zeldin = Trump
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 7, 18 11:28 AM
Absolutely. Good call. Unlike Tim Bishop and whoever Zeldin's opponent might be. They equal hillary and nancy pelosi.
By even flow (624), East Hampton on Feb 7, 18 12:21 PM
Hillary who?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 7, 18 12:37 PM
1 member liked this comment
Facts. Conservative kryptonite.

"Fusion in 2015 began investigating Trump under a contract with the Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website financially supported by GOP megadonor Paul Singer. That assignment ended once Trump was on track to win the nomination. But in April 2016, Fusion was hired by the Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democratic National Committee to keep funding the research. (Marc E. Elias, a lawyer representing the Clinton campaign and the DNC, retained the firm.)"
Feb 7, 18 7:02 PM appended by Mr. Z
"In his testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee, released on Jan. 9 by Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), Glen R. Simpson said Steele’s memo was received favorably by the FBI because it tracked with their own intelligence. “My understanding was that they believed Chris at this point — that they believed Chris might be credible because they had other intelligence that indicated the same thing and one of those pieces of intelligence was a human source from inside the Trump organization,” Simpson said, apparently also a reference to Papadopoulos.]"
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 7, 18 7:02 PM
1 member liked this comment
Relevant facts. Democrat kryptonite.

It was under the Democrat led effort that the whole fiasco took shape, right down to hiring the former British spy Christopher Steele who had Russiancontacts. It is further believed it was Steele who leaked the fake dossier to multiple contacts - to include yahoo news...the FBI intelligence source that you reference. The FBI then used the dossier to make the FISA application, referencing the "corroborating" yahoo news source.
Feb 8, 18 7:55 AM appended by Po Boy
So you see Z, Republicans don't dispute the info in your post, we just admonish that it is shaded with omissions which therefor paints what really transpired in a misleading manner.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 8, 18 7:55 AM
LZ supports Trump at all costs...He doesn't represent the people...He represents his ambitions...when/if the democratic memo comes out, it will show what a hypocrite he really is...
By super steve (1), southold on Feb 8, 18 2:02 PM
At all costs you say...not even close to being so. Did you miss Mr. Zeldin's counter position during tax plan vote and discussion? He aptly voiced the concerns of his constituents in District 1. He's run counter to the administration on more than one issue, and anyone who can't see that is simply blinded by emotion and ideology.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 8, 18 7:09 PM
He voiced his concerns so aptly he didn't earn us any concessions.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 6:34 AM
But voice his opposition he did.

He isn't on Capitol Hill alone you know.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 4:17 PM
Lee should relax and conserve his energy for a job hunt in November. Zeldin is a poor lapdog who doesn't even get a wisp of recognition from his owner. Sad.
By harbor (335), East Hampton on Feb 7, 18 12:22 PM
LONG LIVE LEE ZELDIN !!!!!!!!
By pw herman (925), southampton on Feb 8, 18 4:11 PM
I also wish Lee a long and healthy life, far, far from congress.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 8, 18 4:20 PM
First the Nunes memo is a total flop, as it is a pack of half truths and lies. Then, the DOJ destroys their claims about Uranium One. Tough week for the GOP.
Poor babies...
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 7, 18 2:45 PM
In The 1930's, The German Nazis and their American First Fascists tried to destroy the FBI ... and they failed. In the 1950's and 60's The Russian Communists and their American Comrades tried to destroy the FBI ..they failed also. So why should anybody be surprised when Putin's Neo-Nazi puppet Trump and his Fascist Teabagger partner, Zeldin try to destroy the FBI. THEY TOO WILL FAIL.
By SpeedRacer (92), Southampton on Feb 7, 18 3:48 PM
1 member liked this comment
Did you really just compare Lee Zeldin to a fascist? Lee is a Major in the US Army. Did you serve your country? Or do you hide behind the freedoms you have because of people that wrote a check to the US Government for “up to and including my life”?
By Draggerman (772), Southampton on Feb 7, 18 8:05 PM
1 member liked this comment
Our servicemen and women make the rest of our lives possible, but let's not kid ourselves: they signed up for a paycheck and benefits, not to be lauded as heroes.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 7, 18 8:15 PM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Sturgis (348), Southampton on Feb 7, 18 9:36 PM
1 member liked this comment
You shouldn't call servicemembers "benefit hogs," they earned their compensation packages fair and square.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 7, 18 9:43 PM
I have a question Sturgis.

Since when in this country is a child guilty for the sins of their parents? Or if one were to wax historical, since when is a son guilty of the sins of his father?

Right wing fools...
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 8, 18 12:10 AM
1 member liked this comment
Being called a “Right Wing fool” by an atheist libtard...

By Draggerman (772), Southampton on Feb 8, 18 6:40 AM
1 member liked this comment
Agnostic, actually.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 8, 18 6:59 AM
Wow SH Press...Just wow. And I'm confused FBHB ....YOU, not me, suggested that service members only join for a paycheck and benefits.....Hello ????????????????????????????
By Sturgis (348), Southampton on Feb 8, 18 10:41 AM
What is your suggestion Z ? We don't need the Military ? I'm a right wing fool because I recognize the necessity ?
By Sturgis (348), Southampton on Feb 8, 18 10:56 AM
That's not what I said, so I'm going to paraphrase my military friends here:

Some servicemen and women are uncomfortable with the hero-worship they regularly receive because, to them, their service is a job they choose to do.

They do it with love for their country and a steadfast loyalty for their comrades in arms, but that doesn't mean they'd do it for free.

Of course I've also met veterans who were disappointed at a perceived lack of hero-worship, but that tends to be ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 8, 18 10:59 AM
You're the one who brought up immigration, Sturgis not me. Commenting about the dreamers ring a bell? Or can't you recall your red ink?
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 8, 18 2:13 PM
Illegal is illegal. Why is this so confusing for you ?
By Sturgis (348), Southampton on Feb 9, 18 10:12 AM
American is American, what's hard to understand about that?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 10:30 AM
Ok sure..How did you get here ? Legally ? I have no problem understanding the difference between legal and illegal. Nice deflection though.
By Sturgis (348), Southampton on Feb 9, 18 10:40 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 11:02 AM
I'm an American citizen, regardless of how I arrived. It must eat you up inside.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 11:27 AM
@ Fore1gnBornHBgrown: So good you've become a citizen b/c I only now just learned that our genius HUD Secretary, Dr. Ben Carson, has expressed an opinion that---and I quote: "Illegal immigrants caught voting should be stripped of their citizenship."
Y'all don't have to go to Snopes. Trouble saved.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 9, 18 1:09 PM
1 member liked this comment
I know you said you had checked already, but I had to see it with my own eyes...unbelievable.
Feb 9, 18 1:41 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Just to add some value to this post: the only way to revoke a citizenship is when it was obtained fraudulently through an affirmative material misrepresentation.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 1:41 PM
Well in YOUR mind you are, but that's typical with entitled people that feel the law doesn't apply to them. Sorry to disappoint but no, it doesn't " eat me up inside". I just feel bad for the legal US citizens that suffer because of people like you.
By Sturgis (348), Southampton on Feb 10, 18 10:30 AM
You still don't know how I arrived here or came to be a citizen, mate.

For all you know I arrived with a green card because my family had already been here for decades.

Maybe I don't want to tell you my legal immigration story because when you fill in the blanks, you tell us about yourself.

If it doesn't get to you, why make assumptions that put me in a bad light?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 10, 18 10:39 AM
Well of course not ,I don't know you...... I'm merely stating a fact that there is a legal way and an illegal way to reside in the U.S. How am I putting you in a "bad light" ? I inquired about your entry into the country. If you feel that you are seen in a bad light that's your problem. Fill in the blanks ? The issue is legal versus illegal. This is simple stuff. It's called a slippery slope.
By Sturgis (348), Southampton on Feb 11, 18 1:45 AM
"I just feel bad for the legal US citizens that suffer because of people like you."

What's the negative connotation here? Why the assumption that I'm not a legal US citizen?
Feb 11, 18 8:11 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Who are people like me?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 11, 18 8:11 AM
What ??? You're the one being coy. Legal citizens and the individuals that become citizens legally ...those people suffer.
By Sturgis (348), Southampton on Feb 13, 18 3:33 PM
So then why assume that I'm not a legal citizen?

I naturalized long ago (this I've not been coy about), isn't that the definition of legal citizenship?

How would other legal citizens suffer because of "people like me"?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 13, 18 3:35 PM
Sounds like something is eating YOU up inside.....
I really haven't paid that much attention to you in general so I must have missed the time you explained your status. I'm basing my opinion on your statement about what requirements need to be met to be considered a legal citizen.
By Sturgis (348), Southampton on Feb 14, 18 5:56 PM
So what IS your opinion? How do legal US citizens that suffer because of people like me?
Feb 14, 18 7:08 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Inadvertent "that"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 14, 18 7:08 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Sturgis (348), Southampton on Feb 15, 18 9:47 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 9:53 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Sturgis (348), Southampton on Feb 15, 18 10:24 AM
Fake outrage.

What he should be outraged about is how he and his fellow GOP'ers are destroying this country.
By johnj (793), Westhampton on Feb 7, 18 4:14 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Toma Noku (607), Southampton on Feb 7, 18 4:42 PM
Harbor: Zeldin will win in November. You should relax and save your energy to fight the airport noise. Ten years from now Easthampton airport will be HUGE! Never buy a house near an airport, they only get bigger.
By P. Revere (81), hampton Bays on Feb 7, 18 5:49 PM
Thank God we have a Congressman who is on or side, refreshing after the liberal tool we got of rid of, what was his name again? Consigned to the dustbin of history.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 7, 18 7:38 PM
Why is it you remind me of Tim Omundson in Woody Woodpecker?
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 7, 18 7:57 PM
FBHB: Many of our military didn't "sign up", they were drafted for WWII, Korean War, and Vietnam.
By P. Revere (81), hampton Bays on Feb 7, 18 11:34 PM
2 members liked this comment
That's very true, at least at the time.

But the draft is long gone, and anyone still in re-enslisted as a career choice.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 8, 18 7:12 AM
Draggerman... I hope in your next answer you don't write that "your mother wears army boots" or some other sophomoric line. For your information ... almost none of The Founding Fathers of this Great Country served in the Army. The same can be said for most of the Presidents of the United States. Also the majority of our Congress never were in the Military services. Trump spent the Viet Nam Era either in bed with as many young girls as he could impress with his father's money, or under his bed afraid ...more
By SpeedRacer (92), Southampton on Feb 8, 18 1:31 AM
Democrats' strategy has become a rude request to their opponents to resign. That's because they have no ideas, no rising stars, no platform, they stand for nothing and their brand is finished. Thus, their only hope is that someone resigns.
By SlimeAlive (809), Southampton on Feb 8, 18 7:13 AM
1 member liked this comment
Nice shiner Porter gave his ex-wife. All "the best people" eh? Seems more like a "bad hombre" to me.
By johnj (793), Westhampton on Feb 8, 18 9:42 AM
Well, it’s clear now what gets people worked up. I suggested that a piece on Zeldin and the Nunes memo would elicit comment, and It has. I was initially confused by the headline, “Zeldin Outraged” by memo, implying that he was against it, but of course the fact, and the story, is that he’s in complete sympathy with the memo and his “outrage” is against the FBI and the Department of Justice. Bad call, Lee.

It’s equally clear which dog Lee Zeldin ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1813), Quiogue on Feb 8, 18 9:58 AM
1 member liked this comment
The Honorable's biased appraisal of the memo isn't newsworthy. What else did we expect?

What IS newsworthy is Zeldin's refusal to endorse Trump's claim that the memo exhonerated him, and his assertion that the investigation should continue. The whiskers of his twitchy nose have evidently detected a change in the wind.

We will see more of this in the months to come as the evidence of Trump's criminality increases. By the time he resigns, ALL the rats will have paddled as far ...more
By highhatsize (3524), East Quogue on Feb 8, 18 10:26 AM
We can only hope that the Republicans in congress wise up and distance themselves from Trump sooner than later and then I will be happy to drive their asses out of office for being so stupid to align themselves with him in the first place.
By JulieLevine (1), Jericho, New York on Feb 8, 18 2:32 PM
The Faustian bargain has already been completed, the tax scam is law and dozens of Republicans in both houses of Congress are refusing to run for re-election now that their work is done.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 8, 18 2:40 PM
There hasn't been one item of evidence put forth thus far of evidence of criminality by our President. Something can't increase as it is sold, if it has never existed. If any evidence is put forth, then, it would come to light. To the contrary, we've seen scores of examples a damning evidence against the Democrat held positions.

All this leads Mr. Zeldin to take the position he has. Well done Mr. Zeldin!!

By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 8, 18 12:34 PM
Actually, Trump met almost all of the elements necessary for obstruction of justice, all they have left to do prove is intent.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 8, 18 12:59 PM
Bull!
Feb 8, 18 6:13 PM appended by Po Boy
I love how everything about this case that was all about collusion with Russia NEVER as anything to do with collusion with Russia. Like the old saying goes, you can indict a ham sandwich.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 8, 18 6:13 PM
Zeldin cannot open his mouth without demonstrating what an idiot he is.
By Jolly Roger (12), Southampton on Feb 8, 18 2:06 PM
And what a bunch of Trump trolls infecting these comments. Get some high-octane roach killer, fast.
By Jolly Roger (12), Southampton on Feb 8, 18 2:08 PM
The schism between the left and right in this country is astounding. There is solid proof of criminal wrongdoing by the Democrat Party yet the left fails to acknowledge it,they have been blinded by their hatred of President Trump. He's draining the swamp and the critters are freaking out.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 8, 18 2:59 PM
2 members liked this comment
Well, the DOJ clearly doesn't see things your way. It must be a conspiracy, LOL...
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 8, 18 5:46 PM
Well, the DOJ clearly doesn't see things your way. It must be a conspiracy, LOL.

We don't hate Trump, but it's hard for someone with more than a modicum of intelligence to support a pathological liar. Actually scratch that, it's not possible.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 8, 18 5:50 PM
1 member liked this comment
I think Lee Zelden is right on this issue. The Democrats continue to harp on the phony Russian influence story on the Trump campaign in the 2016 election while their supporters in the FBI, our national police force, were breaking laws to support their canadate Ms. Clinton. The FBI should be an unbiased police force without a political agenda and not be used to influence elections.
By Ernie (76), Hampton Bays on Feb 8, 18 3:54 PM
When investigating crimes, the FBI doesn't care if the accused is a pauper or the pope.

Do you really believe political figures should be immune from investigation?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 8, 18 4:04 PM
1 member liked this comment
"When investigating crimes, the FBI doesn't care if the accused is a pauper or the pope."

**Looks at the FBI handled Bush's and Clinton's Federal crimes**

Lmao, nope. Try again. FBI clearly plays favorites.
By TrueHamptons (24), Sag Harbor on Feb 8, 18 4:14 PM
You're free to hold an opinion, it just matters less than the FBI's.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 8, 18 4:19 PM
"When investigating crimes, the FBI doesn't care if the accused is a pauper or the pope."

Those in the FBI weren't investigating crimes, they were setting policy toward the investigation of crimes. Big difference. It would be nice if this were actually true, but at the highest level of the FBI, sadly it was not.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 8, 18 6:34 PM
It's like you think a handful of people make all of the FBI's decisions absent scrutiny or independent thought by underlings. I have a better opinion of Law enforcement.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 6:32 AM
Is that what I think?

My opinion of law enforcement especially given that I am one, is that the many have issue with the actions of the few for it tarnishes the good work of the many and they would like to see the few held accountable. If you think the "underlings" have any impact or say in political decisions or policy, you truly are clueless.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 12:12 PM
So, as Law enforcement, you of all people know what to do when you receive illegal orders.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 12:28 PM
Well, you watch too many movies... but yes, of course. Unless I'm knowingly or unwittingly involved in the illegal order and unless the order is given at such levels that you either protect it or believe it too or because you carry it out out of fear. I watch movies too. It's like a prosecutors who has a crazy high conviction rate who will stop at nothing to maintain the rate, even jading evidence to their benefit. Procedure and protocol goes right out the window.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 3:38 PM
So the teams of attorneys who wrote the applications for surveillance were incapable of determining their application was improper?

Nah, it was proper.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 4:06 PM
Stick to immigration law.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 4:15 PM
Another topic I'm confident in my knowledge of!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 4:57 PM
Every time Chuckie boy, the mad hatter, maxine waters, botox pelosi , open their mouth Trump gains more supporters. What a lineup of freaks. Come on dems you can do better than this. Remember JFK, Truman, FDR? They were real Democrats.
By P. Revere (81), hampton Bays on Feb 8, 18 4:14 PM
For the uninformed: the mad hatter is that loud mouthed loon Fredirica Wilson from Florida. And lets not forget Al "the molester" Franken, and Anthony Weiner. Todays Democrats are truly a pathetic bunch of degenerates.
By P. Revere (81), hampton Bays on Feb 8, 18 4:56 PM
Isn't there a Holocaust denier running for Congress? What party does he belong to, again?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 8, 18 5:14 PM
Oy Vey Fore. That's a new low you've hit there. You want to take another look at that one??

He called the political system a "two party Jew party system" and essentially denounced BOTH parties in his rants. The Illinois Republican Party and National Republican Congressional Committee have denounced Jones and voiced their strong opposition to his candidacy.
Feb 8, 18 6:59 PM appended by Po Boy
It never ceases to amaze me how one side of the political spectrum is continuously hell bent at making arguments by painting facts through omissions or even blatantly misleading or false "facts".
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 8, 18 6:59 PM
1 member liked this comment
Last time I looked around, you'd be hard pressed to find a Democrat who's a Creationist. Just sayin...
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 9, 18 12:38 AM
So what you're saying is that no Republicans will vote for him in November?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 6:31 AM
"So what you're saying...."

I love that.

Again with the straw man....

If you want to know what I'm saying...reread the post.

By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 9:06 AM
1 member liked this comment
Don't forget the accused child molester who was also from what party?

They both have R next to their name on the ballot and had conservative support. That's a Republican, hands down.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 9:46 AM
1 member liked this comment
How could we forget, you insulted and attacked their intelligence.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 12:03 PM
I'm sorry the good people of Alabama thought the allegations were more credible than you did.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 12:58 PM
Telling people what they think is a form of covert abuse. Just sayin'.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 3:20 PM
Drawing inferences from ballot results is not.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 3:31 PM
No ballots had yet been cast.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 3:45 PM
What are you talking about? The good people of Alabama said "NO" to the accused child molester.

A slim majority, anyway.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 3:49 PM
LOL, now they're the good people of Alabama since he lost. When you though he would win, you had a very different opinion of the good people of Alabama.

Remember our discussion on state-wide intelligence levels? I defended it...you attacked it.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 4:14 PM
1 member liked this comment
And by not electing an accused child molester they proved me wrong, see how that works?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 6:34 PM
Could Foreign be the reincarnation of Phil?
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 8, 18 10:53 PM
...
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 9, 18 12:39 AM
I thought Christians don't believe in reincarnation?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 8:56 AM
1 member liked this comment
So what you're saying is, yes?
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 9:19 AM
Lol, I'm actually everyone except you, Po.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 9:43 AM
Try as you will to give me my opinion.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 12:04 PM
Po Boy: Don't know you but you are brilliant, great debater. Best posts on this sight. Always look forward to your logical reasoning. We use common sense, they use nonsense.
By P. Revere (81), hampton Bays on Feb 9, 18 12:14 PM
*Site.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 12:28 PM
Mr. Boy, a self-proclaimed "lawman", is so "brilliant" that he doesn't even know that trump's been under sealed indictment since May. Said indictment is a basis for impeachment under which he's already been placed on the floor of the House by Rep. Green of Texas. Said indictment doesn't even include obstruction.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 9, 18 12:44 PM
Thanks PR, we're all just soldiers fighting a war to save this great Nation. Carry on and take the fight o them!

June, if they're sealed, how do YOU know?
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 3:05 PM
Now that we have another LEO in here, maybe he can tell us what you're supposed to do when you receive illegal orders.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 3:12 PM
Come to the SHP site and respond to ridiculous questions, of course.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 3:15 PM
Come to the SHP site and respond to ridiculous questions, of course.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 3:15 PM
The correct answer is "disobey."

Why didn't all those underlings at the FBI disobey the orders you think were illegal?

Because they weren't.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 3:21 PM

"...you think..."

Yawn....
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 3:25 PM
Well, sometimes you do.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 3:30 PM
June Bug: You are getting me, P. Revere, mixed up with Po Boy. Po Boy is the brilliant one, I am the "lawman". I called Po Boy brilliant in my last post, and he is. Please elaborate regarding the "sealed indictment" ...... what are your sources, facts, etc.
By P. Revere (81), hampton Bays on Feb 9, 18 1:53 PM
Po Boy also acknowledged his profession up top. Ya'll have lots in common!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 2:00 PM
Fore, I told you that two months ago, and you said you had similar experiences, and I said, "BS" based on your response on an issue.

Apparently, the three of us have lots in common.

I'm just reading PR's comment to June, and he asked the very question that struck me as odd. We're both, like the President, stable genius' I guess. Get em' PR!
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 3:11 PM
I never said I was an LEO, I said I had been previously involved in the criminal justice system.

I am also curious as to the alleged incoming indictment.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 3:18 PM
LMAO!!!! "Previously involved in the criminal justice system.... HAHAHAHAHA."

Priceless! I bet.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 3:22 PM
Sigh. Against my better judgement and policy toward personal information on the internet, I'll simply say I've spent more time in criminal court than most people.

You'll probably just assume it was in orange anyway.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 3:29 PM
I have no opinion on your choice of wardrobe, just the continued telling me what I think. In reality, it's what you think, and that is your burden to bear.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 3:43 PM
So I think that the FBI's orders were illegal? You should work on your theory.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 9, 18 3:52 PM
Huh? Where did I say that?
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 4:15 PM
. . . . no heary ingly.
By pw herman (925), southampton on Feb 10, 18 8:21 AM
1 member liked this comment
Morning PW! You exemplary American, you! I truly wish all my neighbors were carbon copies of this guy.

Po, that's what I took this to mean: "just the continued telling me what I think. In reality, it's what you think"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 10, 18 8:55 AM
"You'll probably just assume it was in orange anyway."
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 12, 18 7:53 AM
So I think I was in orange? Theory still needs work.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 12, 18 8:21 AM
@ Po Boy

Quotes:

"So you see Z, Republicans don't dispute the info in your post, we just admonish that it is shaded with omissions which therefor paints what really transpired in a misleading manner."

"It never ceases to amaze me how one side of the political spectrum is continuously hell bent at making arguments by painting facts through omissions or even blatantly misleading or false 'facts'."
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Please, ...more
By highhatsize (3524), East Quogue on Feb 9, 18 2:36 PM
Reading... ok, nothing of substance... nothing... nothing...

Have a great day hat!
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 9, 18 3:12 PM
POLL: TRUMP APPROVAL NEARS 50%... Friday, February 09, 2018

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Friday shows that 49% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance.

Gives media more access than Obama...New York Times photographer: Trump gives us more access than Obama

MAGA
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 10, 18 1:07 AM
You forgot your stock market cheerleading. This is why any President doesn't get too high with the highs knowing that they are not directly responsible for the actions of the market except your dumb ass child liar-in-chief. Here is the orange cheetohs knowledge of the market, if the news is good, why doesn't the market go up. Yup, this is the moron in charge.
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 10, 18 8:12 AM
Saturday News:

Trump prohibits release of the Democratic version of "the memo" in the face of the UNANIMOUS vote of the Intelligence Committee (both Republicans and Democrats) to permit it, citing the very national security concerns that he ignored in approving the Republican version. Res ipsa loquitur.

Yet another White House staffer resigns (Rob Porter following multiple allegations of sexual battery by former wives.) Chief of Staff John F. Kelly offers to resign as well. ...more
By highhatsize (3524), East Quogue on Feb 10, 18 8:28 AM
so much hatred for a man doing a wonderful job. why do you invest so much time trying to get anything bad to stick to a good man.
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on Feb 10, 18 8:39 AM
Because not everyone agrees that he's "doing a wonderful job."
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 10, 18 8:56 AM
They just conveniently let that whole "Thou shalt not lie" thing fall by the wayside when it's not convenient for them.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 11, 18 12:43 AM
1 member liked this comment
NEWS CORP CEO ADMITS HE WANTS INTERNET CENSORED SO NEWS CORP CAN MAKE MORE MONEY
“The potential returns for our journalism would be far higher”

Sounds like the S H press
By Ditch Bum (464), Water Mill on Feb 10, 18 8:46 AM
Thanks for the heads up Comrade. Why not research a bit about how the FBI protects our country from Russian infiltration? You might learn something:
"The November 11, 2010, issue of Kommersant, Russia's broadsheet, carried an article[28][29] that, with reference to unnamed RF government sources, contained allegations that the "illegals" were fingered by a senior SVR officer named "Colonel Shcherbakov" (according to an unnamed ex-CIA source, his full name may be Александр ...more
By dfree (455), hampton bays on Feb 10, 18 10:09 AM
"They were the target of a multi-year investigation by the US Federal Bureau of Investigation. The FBI investigation, called Operation Ghost Stories, culminated at the end of June 2010 with the arrest of ten individuals in the US and an eleventh suspect in Cyprus.[3] Ten sleeper agents were charged with "carrying out long-term, 'deep-cover' assignments in the United States on behalf of the Russian Federation."[4][5][6]"
By dfree (455), hampton bays on Feb 10, 18 10:12 AM
Poll: Americans ‘Overwhelmingly’ Believe Obama ‘Improperly Surveilled’ Trump Campaign
by JOHN NOLTE10 Feb 2018
An IBD/TIPP poll shows that “Americans overwhelmingly believe the Obama administration ‘improperly surveilled’ Donald Trump’s presidential campaign.”
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 10, 18 11:12 AM
Sessions better come to life with indictments in the next 30 days, or it's time to march on DC.
By Ditch Bum (464), Water Mill on Feb 10, 18 11:14 AM
1 member liked this comment
Public opinion polls on surveillance?

Why don't you tell us what the public thinks about monetary policy next. Maybe we can choose interest rates at the voting booth.

Let Law enforcement enforce the law. If we disagree with the law (and we should here, FISA courts are bravo sierra, to take one from Big Fresh) let's change it!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 10, 18 11:18 AM
Yes lets enforce the laws, Obama and his cronies (including globalist RINOS) essentially spent 8 years turning the federal government into the strong arm branch of the neo-Marxist Obama administration. They openly violated federal law at will. Obama and his administration egregiously interfered with the 2016 elections through illegal spying, unmasking, leaking, and hiding information. Now more evidence emerges every day that the Democrats (rather than Trump) are guilty of collusion with Russia to ...more
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 10, 18 11:21 AM
Nah, that's not what I said.

The current FISA laws turn the FISC into a rubber-stamp procedure, regardless of who the target is. Due Process rights are indeed violated because the courts lack oversight and accountability.

I won't address the rest of your comment because it uses words like "neo-marxist" and "globalist ilk" which are not signs of a constructive talk.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 10, 18 11:30 AM
So, you have massive anger issues. There's counseling for that.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 11, 18 12:45 AM
@ They call me & P Revere & joe hampton & loading... & Undocumented Democrat & Taz

Madness.

Every single one of your six assertions is a lie. (You COULD show me your evidence [he said facetiously].)

If your decision whether or not to cross the street depended on the same perception that you employ in political matters you would all long ago have become roadkill.
By highhatsize (3524), East Quogue on Feb 11, 18 8:44 AM
The top three nominees for this year's Persona Non Grata appear directly above !
By pw herman (925), southampton on Feb 11, 18 9:45 AM
Frankly, I'd be more insulted by a compliment from this guy^
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 11, 18 10:00 AM
In that case, I apologize.
By pw herman (925), southampton on Feb 12, 18 10:38 AM
Folks living in "Separate Realities" might be well advised to wake up, and to realize that common ground cannot be found.

By definition . . . :)

"You can't get there from here!"

Fiddle Fiddle Fiddle !!!
By Nero (249), Sag Harbor on Feb 11, 18 8:00 AM
Boycott Macys
Macy’s has come under fire after announcing an upcoming fashion collection catered to Muslim shoppers, featuring hijabs and more modest clothing options.

The hijab is male domination and subjugation of women - as the brave women of Iran are trying to show the world. You're aiding and abetting this abuse. My family is done with Macys.
By Ditch Bum (464), Water Mill on Feb 11, 18 12:31 PM
1 member liked this comment
I'll bet five dollars Ditch gives a boycott credit for Macy's impending store closures when they've been dying a slow death for a while.

Can't blame them for wanting to expand their market.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 11, 18 12:35 PM
So you see nothing wrong with fmg, fore? how about the rest of the people the radical culture openly abuses ?
Feb 11, 18 12:55 PM appended by Erin 27 E
fgm
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on Feb 11, 18 12:55 PM
You're conflating which bearded man in the sky people make wishes to with barbaric and outdated cultural practices that have no place in the modern world and are not practiced by educated people.
Feb 11, 18 1:03 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
I called it a barbaric and outdated cultural practice, I don't know how much more explicit a person can be UD.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 11, 18 1:03 PM
Can't blame them for wanting to expand their market.

Looks to me they are going to lose more than they gain, sounds like the NFL strategy
Feb 11, 18 1:04 PM appended by Undocumented Democrat
take note he did not answer your question Erin !
By Undocumented Democrat (1664), southampton on Feb 11, 18 1:04 PM
Well the NFL got boycotted from both ends (anti-Kap and pro-Kap groups) and, here, they'll only get boycotted by one group (people angry about the decision to sell headscarfs) while gaining a market (people who want to buy headscarfs).

Unless the group of angry people is that much larger than the group of headscarf consumers, they'll probably be fine. I can't tell you the last time I went into Macy's, but I might go in and buy a headscarf just to make sure angry people have one less place ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 11, 18 1:10 PM
I stand with Israel. Unless someone puts a boot on their neck, the 7th century Radical Islamic savages will destroy Western Civilization. Nothing less can be expected from a Stone Age theocracy that views suicide for the sake of Jihad to be the pinnacle of human achievement. The left and radical Islam share a common hatred of Christianity which is why the left supports these barbarians.
By joe hampton (3092), The Hamptons on Feb 11, 18 1:11 PM
2 members liked this comment
This leftist feels equal disdain for all the Abrahamic religions. At least scientology is honest about being a business.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 11, 18 1:14 PM
1 member liked this comment
@Ditch Bum: But all this time we thought you were all in for free market capitalism!
It is to laugh---if you're so concerned about subjugation, domination and abuse of women, how is it we haven't heard so much as a whisper from you about the refusal of the (credibly accused abuser) president of the United States or his enablers in the Republican party to denounce this scourge?
Make no mistake, Bum's high dudgeon is nothing more than an objection to providing a service for ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 11, 18 1:22 PM
1 member liked this comment
so when is macy’s launching its clothing line geared toward jews? christians? hindus? buddhists? yes, boycott macy’s for exonerating misogyny and promoting misogyny. the islamic veil is the ultimate symbol of misogyny and partriarchy. tell me june would you also promote nazi apparel ? would you promote aztec human sacrifce apparel ? take that thing off you head now ladies and support the brave womaen of iran in there fight ! boycott sharia, boycott macy’s
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on Feb 11, 18 2:28 PM
I'd wager they'd launch those lines when they can make money off of it. I'd also agree that, where compelled, head scarves are misogynist and oppressive.

Thankfully our government and culture does not compel it. Enjoy your boycott!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 11, 18 2:44 PM
Oh please. A trumpette cares about women? Realize how foolish you look? Guess not.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 11, 18 3:08 PM
Erin thinks it's ok for a man to punch a woman in the face so long as they're on the RIGHT side of the aisle.
By johnj (793), Westhampton on Feb 14, 18 12:06 PM
Don't be fooled by his backtracking and re-positioning on this and other issues. Lee Zelidn is a goose stepping Trumpite to the core! He does not represent the views of the majority of the people in his district. He must go in November.


By fritzdaddy (17), southampton on Feb 11, 18 9:20 AM
1 member liked this comment
Peeling back the layers of Hillary Clinton’s deceit
By Michael Goodwin February 10, 2018 AP
MORE FROM:
MICHAEL GOODWIN

The GOP memo proves the 'deep state' is real

Donald Trump is teaching Republicans how to fight

Sorry, skeptics, Trump's tax plan is actually working wonders

Evidence suggests a massive scandal is brewing at the FBI
For law enforcement, Congress and even journalists, exposing misdeeds is like peeling an onion. Each layer ...more
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 11, 18 1:34 PM
Boy, if you think the FBI was trying to help Clinton win you weren't paying attention on October 28, 2016.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 11, 18 1:40 PM
Thanks for the "deep state" heads up, Comrade.

Here's another one for you to investigate:
"...the President was in dire financial straits at the time and sold it for $30 million less than its appraised value.

“In the context of the President’s then-precarious financial position, I believe that the Palm Beach property sale warrants further scrutiny,” Wyden wrote to Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin."
By dfree (455), hampton bays on Feb 11, 18 2:42 PM
Karma really is a mf'er. I hate when emails show up when you thought were deleted, and at such an inconvenient time no less. Comey had a moment of clarity after the exoneration brief months earlier and couldn't justify nor defend hiding the new found emails and had no choice other than to communicate their existence in relation to the Weiner investigation. How would it have looked if Comey didn't release the information, and Hillary had won?

Make no mistake, Comey was covering his behind.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 12, 18 8:37 AM
Considering the "new found emails" were CC's to the same old stuff they had, it probably would have looked as it does now: nothing.

In any event, it's just one example of how the FBI was not trying to help Clinton win the election, nor trying to make her lose.

The dedicated men and women at the FBI, up and down the flagpole, were doing the best job they possibly could.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 12, 18 8:48 AM
The FBI are no dummies. They know full well when to come clean, and when not to. Leadership of the FBI were made into political pawns and that fact ultimately caught up with them when the emails were found on Weiner's computer.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 12, 18 9:28 AM
1 member liked this comment
What did who say to what FBI agent that turned them into a political pawn? I'll wait.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 12, 18 9:31 AM
Who said someone said something to what FBI agent that turned them into a political pawn. I'll wait too.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 12, 18 11:45 AM
So then how were they "made into political pawns"? (your words)
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 12, 18 12:23 PM
For example, changing language from "grossly negligent" to "extremely careless" which essentially exonerated Hillary, when it clearly qualified under the more egregious charge.

"Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.”

~ James Comey

You don't think that's a political decision in light of a presidential candidacy and efforts ...more
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 12, 18 12:58 PM
What evidence do you have that it was a politically-motivated decision?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 12, 18 1:06 PM
Fore, come on now, don't play games. You are well aware of the text messages and proven political slant of those involved.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 12, 18 1:42 PM
Everyone's got a political opinion, the question is whether those political opinions affected one's work. In my view, that burden has not been met.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 12, 18 1:47 PM
I'd suggest you look closer at the totality of the text messages and combine it with all the other shenanigans that has come to light.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 7:12 PM
I suppose a reasonable person could read a conspiracy into the blanks, but I don't see a smoking gun.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 9:30 PM
Henry Rollins: Education is the End of Disaster Capitalism
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 11, 18 4:16 PM
Mark Levin quote "Obamas gone into witness protection, nobody knows where he is any more"
President Trump is sending The Florida Skunk Ape, "The "Swamp Thing" the "Fouke Monster" the "Cajun Werewolf" the "Creature from the Black Lagoon" and all the rest after you swamp critters. There is nowhere to hide.

This is the week the AG must admit Comey and Lynch were receiving there marching orders from the top!
By joe hampton (3092), The Hamptons on Feb 11, 18 11:04 PM
When you come back down from dreamland make sure you bring me a Ferrari.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 11, 18 11:24 PM
Dose of reality:

Water & Power: A California Heist


Public resources, privatized for profit. Modern capitalism isn't a sustainable "free market". It's a virus that kills is host.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 12, 18 4:17 AM
A "regulatory quagmire of California water rights' sounds like a failure of government. The trailer even says this, "In California's convoluted water system, water barons find ways to structure a state-engineered system to their own advantage."

Well, there you go.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 12, 18 8:12 AM
So private industry captures regulatory bodies and uses them to their advantage?

At what other level of government are we seeing this?

Doesn't the secretary of Ed have student loan business holdings, or something?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 12, 18 8:24 AM
It is the role of government to promote for the general welfare of the people. It doesn't get any more general and basic, than water. The state privatized water rights in 1994 and the California government (governors and congressman mind you) has been bought and paid for over the years by those that exploit the water system.

I don't consider water rights to be on the same plane as a student loan. Other than that, I'm not sure where you're going with that "point."
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 12, 18 11:22 AM
That industry capture of regulatory bodies is not political, but constant across party and sector. Oil&gas runs the EPA, private loans run the DOE, and big banks run Consumer Protection bodies.

This is all par for the course, if you're paying attention.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 12, 18 11:30 AM
So there is your dose of reality Z, it's all par for the course...

If you're paying attention.

By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 12, 18 11:42 AM
Capitalism will survive and continue to thrive in or great nation, despite the whining and hand wringing from the leftists. The California water situation shows what happens when the government becomes too powerful and over reaching, just what the left is trying to force on us.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 12, 18 11:43 AM
It's more an example of the tragedy of the commons.

Where public and private resources are available, private actors will invariably consume the public resource first to depletion.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 12, 18 1:09 PM
It was "capitalists" who sidewinded their way into privatizing public resources. It doesn't get much more scummy than that.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 12, 18 3:07 PM
seems as if you want either a communist of Marxist system JuneZ, a system that does not reward success but inspires mediocrity , a system that does not lift the less successful up, but brings the hardest working , most successful down to their level, a system where all are equal. Sorry, that misguided experiment has failed every time it's been tried and runs counter to the basic instincts of mankind.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 12, 18 3:21 PM
Socialism is useful in certain contexts, as is capitalism. The problem arises where we go too far in either direction. The mixed system is best.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 12, 18 3:25 PM
Seems as if your ability to perceive is dysfunctional and your delusions have taken over. You won't be happy to learn there is not a single Marxist communist on this thread, but there is not.
1) Capitalism is an economic system, not a form of government.
2) Government run by capitalist bosses for their own benefit is Fascism. (Can't argue we're not there.)
3) Democratic Socialism is government in the public interest that regulates the excesses and abuses of capitalism, and ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 12, 18 4:29 PM
2 members liked this comment
Mark Twain —

“Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference!”

Fiddle Fiddle Fiddle !!!
By Nero (249), Sag Harbor on Feb 12, 18 4:58 PM
Nah, it's pretty obvious who the least educated fool involved with this thread is.

He has never stopped persisting in his ignorance or living by the propaganda he's been fed and regurgitates. American "capitalism" tossed the middling sorts overboard forty years ago.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 14, 18 8:16 PM
Where are all the Tea baggers? Only one had some nuts, Rand Paul. Increased spending and tax cuts, where did that leave us with Reagen and Bush? Where's Ted Cruz shutting the government down for this approach? Massive tax cuts where the rich will really rake it in. I hope the middle class enjoys it's once a month dinner out at Chipotle.
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 12, 18 5:47 AM
1 member liked this comment
It's really simple. Putin needed to get sanctions lifted. He had his useful idiot in l'il donnie johnny who has laundered russian money through his casinos and was in debt to Putin for bankrolling his failing real estate business.Tillerson was brought in for his Russian medals to get Exxon Mobil on board to start prospering even more. Wait till Syria winds down and who runs in there to get a piece of it. Russia is going to get Assad back in power and all we've done is fought to help the Russians ...more
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 12, 18 6:00 AM
TRUMP DECLARES WAR ON MS-13 GANG
Feb 12, 18 9:49 AM appended by 27dan
President Trump will unveil his long-awaited infrastructure plan on Monday.Infrastructure by leveraging local and state tax dollars and private investment. "Together, we will reclaim our building heritage," he said. "We will build gleaming new roads, bridges, highways, railways, and waterways across our land."
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 12, 18 9:49 AM
what a peaceful morning in the news thank you once again for working so hard to keep america safe president trump.
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on Feb 12, 18 10:01 AM
Eighteen school shootings since beginning of year plus mass murder massacres in Las Vegas and Sunderland, yup he's really keeping America safe.
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 12, 18 10:59 AM
1 member liked this comment
On the other hand, that's completely normal now and fully compatible with a peaceful morning.
Feb 13, 18 11:02 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
I remember a time when people would have argued with me saying mass murder is normal. I miss that.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 12, 18 11:02 AM
Uh...commonplace...

Normal, uh...no.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 13, 18 9:28 AM
Finally! Someone stands for sanity!

Commonplace, routine, ordinary and normal are all synonyms, and all apply.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 13, 18 9:36 AM
I get your point Fore, no one is arguing with Webster, however, normal alludes to state of mind and is inappropriately absent of context or even outright misleading given the circumstances of the majority of these events.

By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 8:40 AM
You want context? "It's normal/routine/ordinary/commonplace for a person with mental health issues to obtain access to firearms, walk into a school, snuff out young lives, and be met with collective prayers, handwringing, and shrugs from elected officials."

I'm not even talking about gun control anymore, that ship has sailed, let's get some federal grants for burly vets to meet troublemakers at the door. If they're good enough to protect our freedoms thousands of miles away they can protect ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 8:57 AM
"handwringing, and shrugs"

There's not a normal person out there who is indifferent on the issue. "Handwringing and shrugs" doesn't mean they wouldn't solve the problem, if the problem could be solved within the bounds of a free society.

By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 9:32 AM
Inaction = collective hand-wringing and shrugs
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 9:37 AM
Sometimes no action is action just as no decision is in itself, a decision.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 11:22 AM
Yes, a decision to do nothing should make us all feel safe.
Feb 15, 18 11:26 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
And reinforces the fact that there is nothing TO do because this is normal.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 11:26 AM
There is nothing to do, not because it is commonplace, but because it is a complex issue that speaks to the fabric of the Constitution and virtually unsolvable through any form of legislation. This is a much larger issue that speaks to the decay of societal norms and values.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 11:55 AM
You heard it, folks. There's nothing we can possibly do.

Go about your days and hug your kids extra tight when they leave for school in the morning.

You know I'm not even proposing gun control anymore, right?

Do you think better-armed security in schools could prevent some deaths?

What do you say to former vets greeting people at the door?

Do you have ANY ideas?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 12:01 PM
You know Fore, it's not even worth it when you misquote and take out of context what's written.

What do you think "virtually unsolvable by any form of legislation" mean to you?
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 6:57 PM
1 member liked this comment
Nowhere in that comment did I read any ideas on how to stop school shootings specifically or mass murder in general.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 7:19 PM
No where were we really talking solutions.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 7:46 PM
BF and I were having a good discussion about federal funded mandates down below
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 8:15 PM
Ahh....you agree with him... it sure it is a splendid conversation.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 8:25 PM
Actually we agreed on the idea but not where the money should come from.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 8:29 PM
Well bravo.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 8:41 PM
1 member liked this comment
Well bravo.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 8:41 PM
1 member liked this comment
Just a year ago all of the smart people were mocking Donald Trump for being insane enough to suggest the Obama administration had surveilled or as he put it wiretapped his campaign. What a paranoid lunatic they said, 'Get off Twitter!' Yeah. Now we know what actually happened.

Hey liberal media how do you like our new system where you do not have a monopoly on news? Not so much? Not to worry. Plenty of people really really like it. Its a little thing called free speech.

All voices ...more
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 12, 18 10:15 AM
Nobody cares that every Tom, Dick, and Harry has a politi-blog now. 99% of people tune them out anyway.

As to the criminal investigation that took place during the Obama administration, there's been zero proof of wrongdoing or politically-motivated acts by the government.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 12, 18 10:18 AM
1 member liked this comment
Obviously just like the tangerine toddler you worship, evidence is optional when making an opinion. Delusional and dishonest with no transparency is all your about tcm. What's your EVIDENCE?
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 12, 18 11:06 AM
where is the evidence from the left regarding their fantasy of Trump collusion with the evil "Russians"? Seems as if Hillary and the DNC paid the Russians in an attempt to dig up some dirt on President Trump.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 12, 18 11:38 AM
Time will tell, facts don't care about opinions.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 12, 18 12:43 PM
1 member liked this comment
"If it's what you say I love it."

- Donnie Half Scoop
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 12, 18 3:10 PM
Using the IRS to go after conservative organizations was certainly politically motivated Phil.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 12, 18 11:08 AM
I thought the discussion was about the FBI's investigation of Trump associates?

The IRS indeed overstepped its mandate in applying greater scrutiny to conservative-sounding names and suffered the consequences.
Feb 12, 18 11:13 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Regardless, the injury was minor, simply the difference between being labeled a 501(c)(3) or (c)(4), and did not stop any organization from performing its charitable work.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 12, 18 11:13 AM
"and did not stop any organization from performing its charitable work."

Of course it did. 501c's can't operate as a charitable deductible organization until they are given approval to do so. It impacts their charitable work and ability to raise funds. You may consider that a "minor injury" as a Democrat whose preferred party won the election, but republicans may disagree.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 12, 18 11:52 AM
The ability to raise funds for political purposes in a post-Citizens United world is admittedly not near the top of my concerns.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 12, 18 12:21 PM
"Phil"?

Someone's been nipping at alternative facts again...
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 12, 18 3:12 PM
People can call me whatever they like if they're still reading my musings.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 12, 18 3:23 PM
Mets fan ? OMG ! could it be ?
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 12, 18 9:46 PM
Could it be you're an idiot?
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 12, 18 10:11 PM
Who cares if Phil is back in disguise, the important thing is he no longer receives credit for his hateful dishonest rhetoric. he is a limp tool at best
By Undocumented Democrat (1664), southampton on Feb 12, 18 11:22 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: I'm everyone except you, UD.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 13, 18 6:52 AM
So the ends justify the means?
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 12, 18 3:14 PM
(assuming you're asking me) where did I say that?

The IRS got it's deserved comeuppance, the affected groups got an apology, and future generations will have the guidance of a court decision on what is and is not acceptable scrutiny.

The rare win-win-win scenario.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 12, 18 3:20 PM
1 member liked this comment
The Obama administration skated.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 12, 18 3:23 PM
The way you reply makes it really hard to understand who you're talking to.

If you start typing into the bottom box your new reply will always show up at the bottom.

If you click "Reply" under a particular post and type into the box that appears, you're going to reply in-context with the post you intended to reply to.
Feb 12, 18 3:27 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Assuming by "The Obama Administration" you mean someone in the White House should have been punished, I'd ask "why?" Did the order come down from the White House, or were the administrators at the IRS to blame?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 12, 18 3:27 PM
It's been at least nine years, and he still hasn't figured it out yet...
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 12, 18 3:54 PM
1 member liked this comment
LOL

Fiddle Fiddle Fiddle !!!
By Nero (249), Sag Harbor on Feb 12, 18 5:01 PM
1 member liked this comment
DUMBASS!


I wish it weren't true.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 12, 18 10:09 PM
Former president of Georgia arrested in Ukraine by Israeli agents and deported to Poland by a Turkish judge using a Vietnamese translator, by way of a French airplane, with a Dutch pilot and Moroccan crew. Belgium
source: bbc.com
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 12, 18 10:14 PM
"Capitalism" should piss you off lately. "Lately" meaning four decades...

Insert your own Mad Lib here...
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 12, 18 10:19 PM
"Capitalism" in action:


Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach sits on board of 'veterans group' that spends 94 percent of donations on fundraisers
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 12, 18 10:23 PM
Teddy Roosevelt Progressive WAVE'S UP.

Denigrate our Wilderness for profit?

F**K Y*U.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 12, 18 10:28 PM
Do you have a cogent point to make?
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 12, 18 10:42 PM
Yes. Rampant speculation raises suicide rates. Profiting at the expense of humanity in the short term is just pathetic.

You not only misunderstand commonwealth, it's obsolete definition escapes your narrow scope.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 13, 18 12:09 AM
There's a great cartoon by Marc Benioff that depicts a businessman in a ragged suit sitting at a campfire telling some children a story.

The caption goes: "Yes, the planet got destroyed. But for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders."
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 13, 18 8:57 AM
Sounds like Gahan Wilson.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 13, 18 11:31 PM
Just looked it up, I got it from Benioff's Twitter but the artist is Tom Toro.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 14, 18 7:21 AM
CNN, DESPITE TRUMP BUMP, PREPARES FOR DOZENS OF LAYOFFS,

Gee I wonder why ?
By Undocumented Democrat (1664), southampton on Feb 12, 18 11:19 PM
Why? It's in the article... GASP!

"Several high profile digital initiatives are being scaled back, including CNN’s virtual reality productions and its efforts on Snapchat, where CNN recently nixed a live daily webcast after just four months. CNN’s business-oriented MoneyStream app, as BuzzFeed reported earlier this month, is in the gutter as well. A team that works on the digital extensions of documentary-style TV shows, such as Anthony Bourdain’s Parts Unknown and Lisa ...more
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 13, 18 9:54 AM
1 member liked this comment
Anthony Bourbain's Parts Unknown is the only thing worth watching on the Clinton News Network.
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 13, 18 12:27 PM
1 member liked this comment
God money, do anything for you...
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 13, 18 1:14 AM
@ Po Boy & Undocumented Democrat

["sigh"]

The tendentiously edited, plagiarized article from Vanity Fair* omits the facts that CNN profits are record-breaking; that while CNN envisions dismissing (possibly) 50 employees, it has hired 200 additional employees within the last 18 months; that the cuts are occurring in the "digital media" area of its business (a field in which, as the article states, "the past year has turned out to be a cruel one for just about any business that ...more
By highhatsize (3524), East Quogue on Feb 13, 18 12:20 PM
Trump Makes Gains Ahead of Midterms
Political experts say rise in net approval ratings among voters reflects in part a solid U.S. economy

BY CAMERON EASLEY
February 13, 2018

In January, 44% of voters approved of Trump’s job performance; 51% disapproved
January rating represents 2-point rise from September, 4-point increase from November.

President Donald Trump is beginning the second year of his term with his popularity on the upswing.

That’s ...more
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 13, 18 12:24 PM
THIS B S HAS TO STOP !

Leftist Google Employees Conspire To Undermine Breitbart’s Ad Revenue

Google is increasingly similar to Big Brother's Oceania in

by ALLUM BOKHARI13 Feb 2018

Left-wingers at Google are engaged in a relentless effort to demonetize Breitbart News from its AdSense platform and are linking advertising clients to the anti-Breitbart, far-left pressure group Sleeping Giants.
By joe hampton (3092), The Hamptons on Feb 13, 18 4:08 PM
Last Weeks Possible Market Manipulation By Anti-Trump Globalists Has Little Affect...
Feds Run Surplus in 1st Month of Tax Cut...
Bill Murray Praises...
Small-Business Owners Say Good Time to Expand...
Home Prices Hit Records...
Trump popularity on upswing...
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 13, 18 4:34 PM
The FBI can't find a Malaysian 737 filled with passengers. How were they supposed to find personal background info on Porter?
By even flow (624), East Hampton on Feb 13, 18 6:12 PM
Oh, they found it all right but forces inside the White House chose to do nothing. The FBI notified the White House on numerous occasions that Porter would not pass the security clearance criteria, as early as last March. A complete report was delivered in July and a response for more information was given in November.

Having completed their work, the FBI closed the file in January yet none of this was acted on by the White House until the press exposed the story. I guess we need the ...more
By VOS (1065), WHB on Feb 13, 18 7:00 PM
As if you know wtf you are even spewing on about. Lol.
By even flow (624), East Hampton on Feb 14, 18 6:23 AM
I guess you missed the FBI Director's recent testimony before congress? Or perhaps disregarded it as fake news?:

Testifying before the Senate Intelligence Committee on Tuesday morning, FBI Director Christopher Wray said that the bureau had delivered a partial report on problems with Porter to the White House back in March — earlier than the administration had previously acknowledged being aware of such issues.

Wray also said the FBI had closed its file on Porter last month. ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 14, 18 7:19 AM
Will the Honorable Lee Zeldin pontificate about Presidential payoffs to prostitutes? What a role model for our children.

Wall Street Journal:
"In his statement released late Tuesday, Mr. Cohen said: “I am Mr. Trump’s longtime special counsel and I have proudly served in that role for more than a decade. In a private transaction in 2016, I used my own personal funds to facilitate a payment of $130,000 to Ms. Stephanie Clifford.”"
By dfree (455), hampton bays on Feb 14, 18 6:24 AM
Free Hillary!!
By johnj (793), Westhampton on Feb 14, 18 12:07 PM
No thanks, I've had plenty!
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 7:59 AM
It was a joke po fella. See she's not in jail. Nor will she ever be.

Sorry not sorry.
By johnj (793), Westhampton on Feb 15, 18 11:15 AM
You don't say...
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 11:21 AM
GOP Takes Lead on Generic Congressional Ballot; Trump Job Approval Hits 47%

After months of facing a potential blue wave of losses in the 2018 midterms, the Republican Party has taken the lead in a generic congressional poll, according to Morning Consult. In this same poll, President Trump’s job approval rating has also jumped.

Congratulations Mr. President
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 14, 18 1:47 PM
@ 27dan

You continue stroking yourself with these ridiculous, outlier polls.

Every other poll on earth (and the "average of all polls" on realclearpolitics.com) shows Trump's historic unpopularity to be but a few percentage points improved (41.6% Approve/ 53.3% Disapprove) and the Democrats still winning the generic congressional vote by a wide margin (45.4% Democrats/38.8% Republican).

Your "faithful" blindness to reality both inspires your sophomoric posts and prevents ...more
By highhatsize (3524), East Quogue on Feb 14, 18 4:52 PM
Finally a President that actually cares about the country and accomplishes things.... To stand against the SWAMP CREATURES and fight for us, the way he has: TRUMP has 110% of our approval. I personally don't know anyone who isn't happy with President Trumps performance and since we have seen the MSM and their polls are rigged/fake, no way is their figure correct.

MAGA!!!! Thanks, Mr. President!
By Undocumented Democrat (1664), southampton on Feb 14, 18 4:57 PM
2 members liked this comment
Today's mass shooting is brought to you by Florida.


Sheriff: At least 17 dead in Florida school shooting
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 14, 18 8:17 PM
Dear liberals,,I am a law abiding citizen with a gun.
You dont want me to have a gun.
I am NOT willing to give it up!
your move...
By Ditch Bum (464), Water Mill on Feb 14, 18 8:19 PM
1 member liked this comment
Do you always function solely using your amygdala?
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 14, 18 8:28 PM
Ignorance has no shame.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 8:08 AM
New Hedge-Fund Tax Dodge Triggers Wild Rush Back Into Delaware
By Miles Weiss
February 14, 2018, 4:00 AM EST


Wall Street’s fast-money crowd is returning to well-trodden ground to elude Trump-era tax laws: Delaware.

Since late 2017, hedge fund managers have created numerous shell companies in the First State, corporate America’s favorite tax jurisdiction. These limited liability companies share a common goal: dodging new tax rules for carried-interest profits ...more
Feb 14, 18 8:29 PM appended by Mr. Z
Stupidest administration EVER.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 14, 18 8:29 PM
Here's the real "pay to play" scam. Tit for tat, or quid pro quo as it were...


How to start fixing democracy with the $1.50-a-week tax cut Paul Ryan gave you
By Jason Sattler

Opinion columnist Published 3:15 a.m. ET Feb. 14, 2018 | Updated 5:42 p.m. ET Feb. 14, 2018


It shouldn't be this hard for a mass of citizens to fend off a handful of feudal lords. But it will be until we dilute the clout of the richest voters.

House Speaker Paul Ryan decided ...more
Feb 14, 18 8:55 PM appended by Mr. Z
Ryan received $500,000 from the brothers Koch in his “Team Ryan” campaign account 13 days after the House passed the tax cut bill. And that’s just the beginning. The Koch network is vowing to spend $400 million to keep the GOP’s majorities — and they’re just one shadowy group of donors with lots of extra cash.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 14, 18 8:55 PM
1 member liked this comment
every time the liberals start losing in the polls .......
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on Feb 14, 18 9:40 PM
Was there a thought you planned to finish, or...?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 14, 18 9:40 PM
"Government is instituted for the common good; for the protection, safety, prosperity and happiness of the people; and not for the profit, honor, or private interest of any one man, family, or class of men; Therefore the people alone have an incontestible, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government; and to reform, alter, or totally change the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity and happiness require it."

~ John Adams, Massachusetts State Constitution
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 14, 18 9:53 PM
“I hope that we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the laws of our country.”

~ Thomas Jefferson
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 14, 18 10:04 PM
Third finger salute

nn!nn
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 14, 18 11:33 PM
Don't let him bait you in with his communist manifesto TCM ! He knows what to say to pi** everyone off ! And does it by design.

To Freedom, Property rights the First, Second and Tenth Amendment ... To Life Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness !

DON'T TREAD ON ME !

MAGA !

By joe hampton (3092), The Hamptons on Feb 14, 18 11:40 PM
If it were up to you to label people, most of the Founding Fathers published work would be "communist manifesto" or the work of an "atheist libtard".


"The advancement and diffusion of knowledge is the only guardian of true liberty."

"Every new regulation concerning commerce or revenue; or in any manner affecting the value of the different species of property, presents a new harvest to those who watch the change and can trace its consequences; a harvest reared not by themselves ...more
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 15, 18 12:24 AM
If we're doing shout outs to our favorite amendments, I'm partial to the 4th, 5th, 13th and 14th. Also special mention to the 21st for keeping things interesting!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 7:02 AM
JuneZ, your anti religion, anti capitalism and anti American posts show all that is wrong with the liberal mindset and bring into focus the reasons that President Trump won the election.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 15, 18 12:54 PM
Did you just refer to quoting the founding fathers as "anti American"?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 12:57 PM
2 members liked this comment
Some of the quotes from the evil slave owning white men are just not up to date.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 15, 18 1:17 PM
Which one of the above no longer holds true, in your opinion?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 1:20 PM
He doesn't know. He's just another b******* artist like the current president.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 15, 18 4:16 PM
the quotes from both Madison and Jefferson anti religion and are therefore in opposition to those who believe in a higher being. 'All men are created equal and are endowed by their CREATOR".......
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 15, 18 8:12 PM
Is atheism itself anti-American, in your view?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 9:32 PM
Apparently so is agnosticism.

Prove your god exists. In the immortal words of Edmund Halley, "Put up or shut up."
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 15, 18 11:38 PM
1 member liked this comment
Anyone?
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 17, 18 9:36 PM
I wake every. GOD'S PLAN.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 18, 18 10:22 PM
JuneZ: you are in for a surprise after you pass away and meet your maker!
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 19, 18 12:26 AM
Which one, pray tell?

Enki, Ra, Odin, Kronos, Yahweh, Dagda, or maybe Baldr?

You certainly are no Bodhisattva.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 19, 18 4:17 AM
The day any leftist was born is regrettable.
By pw herman (925), southampton on Feb 19, 18 8:13 AM
God is at work again!
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 19, 18 11:16 AM
Was he on vacation for the last thousand years, or something?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 20, 18 8:32 AM
...or something.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 20, 18 11:22 AM
Yesterday's carnage brought to you by the law and order president, who is bought and paid for by the NRA. A shotgun and a six shot hand gun is all that should be allowed. How is America great with nineteen school shootings since January. Ask one of the parents of the seventeen dead if they feel America is great again.
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 15, 18 5:45 AM
1 member liked this comment
KILLER: TROUBLED EX-STUDENT...
'EVERYONE PREDICTED IT'...
Dangerous creep...
INSPIRED BY ISIS?
Vowed to commit massacre on YOUTUBE...
President Prays For Victims: No Child Should Feel Unsafe...
As bullets flew, pupil kept world updated on socials..
Phone footage captures horror...
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 7:54 AM
Do we know how he got the guns yet?
Feb 15, 18 8:20 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
To answer my own question, it sounds like he legally purchased an AR-15 when he turned 18.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 8:20 AM
Stop praying and start banning semi-automatic rifles.
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 15, 18 9:01 AM
There's too many out there, Mets. For devout gun aficionados, to turn in their most destructive weapons would be to reject their own values and turn their back on their most closely-held beliefs.

You're better off doing what the rest of us are and strap up. Also hug your kids tight every day.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 9:06 AM

Once again, a U.S. National (NOT an immigrant) has committed mass murder. But let's keep talking about building that Wall and not about gun control.
By johnj (793), Westhampton on Feb 15, 18 10:32 AM
That's an interesting theory. How would the wall have stopped mass murder and how would gun control have prevented illegal migration?
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 11:19 AM
The point was that an issue of dollars and cents is being prioritized over an issue of life and death.
Feb 15, 18 11:43 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him act to prevent mass murder.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 11:43 AM
Thanks johnj.

Pure nonsense.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 11:45 AM
@Po Boy: That "unsolvable" issue you referenced? Your boy just blamed it all on mental illness. And what was one of the very first actions he took as president? One month in he signed a bill into law rolling back a regulation making it harder for the mentally ill to purchase a gun.
And today in a meaningless word salad it took him a full day to conjure up, he tells children to "answer hate with love and cruelty with kindness". Just hearing those hollow words spewed by a man who ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 15, 18 12:34 PM
I'll save Po the trouble :

Australia is not America

Gun control is an affront to the constitution

Even if it wasn't, it wouldn't work

Dead kids are the price we pay for freedom

Did I miss anything?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 12:43 PM
"dead kids are the price we pay for freedom"? Who in their right mind would think such a thing? Blaming the weapons is misguided. When I was growing up on the beautiful South Fork, graduated high school in 1979, guns were just a fact of life. Duck and goose hunting along with pheasant and small game were time honored traditions, there were shotguns in the back windows of trucks in the school parking lot and kids were taught hands on gun safety at a young age. There were NO SCHOOL SHOOTINGS. What ...more
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 15, 18 1:14 PM
1 member liked this comment
So then what do we do, BF?

Po Boy has settled on "nothing."

What say you?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 1:16 PM
armed , well trained security personnel in the schools perhaps? Look at Israel for example, they have an incredibly well armed populace and no school shootings. Let that sink in.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 15, 18 1:20 PM
1 member liked this comment
Finally! A suggestion other than inaction!

Compulsory military service does wonders for teaching gun safety, a practice I don't think people are willing to start up in the US.

Having said that, I'd be greatly in favor of expanded security, at first in the form of a funded mandate from the Federal gov't.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 1:22 PM
There is enough waste in the current school budget to pay for real security for our schools. Incredible that the left's knee jerk reaction is to want Big Government to pay for things.
I am not advocating compulsory military service, but perhaps there should be a year of some sort of service between high school and college. There are a lot of kids just being shoved through the pipeline with no grasp of what it takes to make it in the real world.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 15, 18 1:29 PM
This is not a Florida problem, or a California problem, or a Texas problem, or a New York problem. It's a country-wide problem that merits a Federal response.

If we can issue five-year grants to public schools to expand security that will give us at least some body of data to determine whether such measures are worth the expenditures, and give individual schools a basis on which to decide whether to continue the program out-of-pocket or not.

Before you dismiss this idea outright, ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 1:35 PM
This is not a Florida problem, or a California problem, or a Texas problem, or a New York problem. It's a country-wide problem that merits a Federal response.

If we can issue five-year grants to public schools to expand security that will give us at least some body of data to determine whether such measures are worth the expenditures, and give individual schools a basis on which to decide whether to continue the program out-of-pocket or not.

Before you dismiss this idea outright, ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 1:36 PM
no matter who proposed it, I would not be in favor of Federal involvement in local school security.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 15, 18 1:44 PM
"NO SCHOOL SHOOTINGS" circa 1979? Wrong. Two major ones in 1966--Charles Whitman killed 17 and wounded 25 plus from a tower on the U of Texas, and Richard Speck brutalized and killed 8 student nurses in Chicago.
And if your sanctity of life mantra rightfully included the now thousands of victims of gun violence, you would be on the hustings demanding sane gun control laws. Yet you are apparently among the 2-5% of Americans opposed. Which automatically makes your pro-life stance ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 15, 18 1:45 PM
I stand corrected, those 2 did occur. "The marked increase of school shootings in recent years" should have been used. Since you are chiming in, how would you explain the increase in school shootings ? Remember access to guns was much easier in the past.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 15, 18 1:59 PM
Have firearms become more affordable and powerful since 1979?

Has the number of firearms in the wild steadily risen since 1979?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 2:06 PM
not sure but even if correct it does not explain the rash of school shootings .
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 15, 18 4:20 PM
"I don't know the answers to these questions but I'm convinced they have nothing to do with the topic at hand!"

I just rolled my eyes harder than when I find out there's been another school shooting.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 4:30 PM
Fore, you've misquoted me above. My reference to "nothing" was in reference to legislation...clearly indicated in the second half of the post you've misrepresented.
Feb 15, 18 7:04 PM appended by Po Boy
It's essentially agreeing with your reference to "hand wringing and shrugs from elected officials" but calling you on the tone of your sentiment as if elected official don't care but drawing focus to the fact that they KNOW it wouldn't solve the problem but take great homage in politicizing it.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 7:04 PM
You're not even hand-wringing anymore, just shrugging.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 8:19 PM
Please don't tell me what I'm doing.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 8:22 PM
Mets Fan, didn't take long for you to rear your uninformed head and start preaching about gun control. Can't wait what the rest of the uninformed gang has to say. You just don't get it, do you?
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 15, 18 8:51 PM
"Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop is offering to share with the United States her country's two decades of experience with gun law reform that dramatically lowered gun violence deaths.

Australia credits stricter gun control laws enacted after a massacre in Port Arthur in 1996 for a dramatic fall in gun violence."
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 15, 18 11:44 PM
Seventeen school children just got massacred, what do you have to say about that? What do I have to get?
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 16, 18 5:51 AM
As long as the real problem isn't sought, the problem will never be addressed.

It's a cultural, societal and mental health issue. You don't get that.
Feb 16, 18 8:29 AM appended by Po Boy
Z, your quote from October and the issue of applying a gun ban and confiscation here in the US similar to Australia has more holes in it than Swiss cheese.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 8:29 AM
Not that Po Boy actually has any ideas on how to resolve the cultural, societal, and mental health issues, mind you. They're just easy scapegoats that make it easy to ignore the issue at hand.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 8:46 AM
Yeah, let's just blame guns at the expense of law abiding gun owners....the real scapegoats.

Fore, how many times do I have to ask, please don't tell me what I think. You've never been correct, yet.

Feb 16, 18 9:05 AM appended by Po Boy
Here's a few Fore, mind you, none of which I really care to debate because society doesn't want to accept responsibility...it's easier to blame an inanimate object like a gun... families without father figures. disregard for authority.... a violent society whether it be movies or vide games which have desensitized violent acts .... a media that feeds into narcissistic disorders pervasive to murders...and yes Fore, strengthening the link between the mental health community and those who can purchase firearms.... see where this is going??
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 9:05 AM
You highlighted a series of issues but didn't propose a single new idea.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 9:12 AM
None of which have been considered. Well there you go... never satisfied. Could have predicted that one....in fact I did... that's why the reluctance to share.

Take the issue and fill in the blanks for yourself Fore. It's not my job to fix decades of societal decay.

By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 9:21 AM
So wash your hands of the issue. The rest of us will continue to brainstorm.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 9:23 AM
When you figure it out, let me know where to turn in my firearms and ammo or whether it will be confiscated from my home.
Feb 16, 18 9:33 AM appended by Po Boy
Make sure you consider in the brainstorming...taking prayer out of school, contempt for people of faith, attack on the national anthem, the attack on masculinity and the white race, divisions and polarization of all kinds...and wonder why bad things happen.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 9:33 AM
1 member liked this comment
So to read into your append a little, you believe we should:

1. put prayer back into school (organized by the government?)
2. hold religion in higher esteem (all religions, or just Christianity?)
3. force NFL players to stand for the national anthem (or anyone?)
4. stop attacking "masculinity and the white race" (I'm not even sure what to make of that, any specific suggestions?)
5. and generally stop people from disagreeing?

At least we agree that those are some ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 10:54 AM
. . . . . and end chain migration and the lottery visa programs.
By pw herman (925), southampton on Feb 16, 18 11:08 AM
Chalk 'em up as numbers 6 and 7, they fit in with the theme of the list.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 11:18 AM
You strike me as a low hanging fruit sort of guy Fore. This is big picture stuff... outside the box, the kind of themes that bind the fabric of a nation that have been torn down over the years.

Let's also add not coddling kids, giving them all trophies, over medicating them...let's teach them how to handle life...something that no longer exists.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 12:29 PM
Stopping the overreliance on psychoactive medication might be the first one of your suggestions I agree with...progress!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 12:52 PM
Anything we can do for you Fore, to ensure our suggestions are consistent with how you'd like us to think, just let us know. We're all here for you.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 1:12 PM
I'm less interested in changing your mind than knowing how it works :-)
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 1:18 PM
I wish you nothing but the best with that and the efforts toward the slippery slope.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 18, 18 10:08 PM
Meanwhile back in the real world, Priebus's revelations in the new Vanity Fair piece show Trump in private to be even more sinister and out-of-control than had been assumed.

Mueller's investigation is quietly building quite a mansion . . .

Da Nile is a wide river to cross!

Make America GRATE Again.


By PBR (4857), Southampton on Feb 15, 18 11:54 AM
2 members liked this comment
Michael Skolnik‏
Verified account
@MichaelSkolnik

I met with @realDonaldTrump on May 9, 2011 at 3PM at his office in Trump Tower. On his desk he had a large binder labeled “Iowa,” and on a side table he had “Trump For President” yard signs. He told me he was running for President in 2016.

I would testify this under oath.

8:36 AM - 18 Feb 2018


Replying to @MichaelSkolnik @realDonaldTrump
That sounds just around the ...more
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 19, 18 4:34 AM
F @BarackObama !!!!!!!!!!
By pw herman (925), southampton on Feb 19, 18 8:10 AM
Imagine if the FBI was as interested in stopping mass shootings as they were in stopping our democratically elected President?
By even flow (624), East Hampton on Feb 15, 18 12:44 PM
Dodge, duck, dip, dive and dodge.

If you can dodge an issue you can dodge a ball.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 12:52 PM
Zeldin is the most repugnant, immoral and gutless Republican toadie to ever hold the 1st Congressional District seat. He needs to go.
By Jolly Roger (12), Southampton on Feb 15, 18 1:19 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Jolly Roger (12), Southampton on Feb 15, 18 1:20 PM
Elections have consequences , the people voted and bounced out a bleeding heart , tax and spend liberal and replace him with a more conservative Congressman. Rally your troops and vote him out if you can. There are still enough productive members of society in the 1st District to shut down a leftist candidate.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 15, 18 1:23 PM
there were shotguns in the back windows of trucks in the school parking lot and kids were taught hands on gun safety at a young age. There were NO SCHOOL SHOOTINGS. What ...more the hell happened?

Simple It's not the guns it's Latch Key Children on Psychotropic Drugs, mixed with Call of Duty and Social Media - - - - BOOM !
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 15, 18 3:15 PM
This 19-year-old received militia training from a white nationalist group whose mission is to turn Florida into a white ethno-state...but you're right, it was probably the Nintendo's fault.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 3:23 PM
2 members liked this comment
Yeah right, Simple Simon. This loser with an instagram account could kill 17 people in minutes while unarmed and on a psychotropic drug.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 15, 18 3:43 PM
Kids are awash in violence to include video games. It desensitizes them to violence. Whatever training he received from whatever group had nothing to do with who he shot. So yes, violent video games as an example, can potentially impact mindset. And I say that not even knowing whether he was even into video games, but that can be a factor. It certainly doesn't help.
Feb 15, 18 7:56 PM appended by Po Boy
Adam Lanza had more than 83,000 'kills' on video games including 22,000 'head shots' as he trained himself for the horrific Sandy Hook massacre. UK Daily Mail.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 7:56 PM
1 member liked this comment
This guy was a card carrying member of the ROF, attended at least one of their paramilitary drills, and participated in their marches. Another unstable American right wing terrorist act. He even described himself as a "right wing extremist" nut.
Feb 15, 18 8:05 PM appended by Mr. Z
"I've seen him wear a Trump hat." ~ Ocean Parodie, former classmate of Nikolas Cruz
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 15, 18 8:05 PM
Jot Po Boy down as +1 for video-game-control legislation
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 8:17 PM
Please don't tell me what I'm down for.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 8:20 PM
Well you won't tell us!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 8:30 PM
Told. You do realize we've had this discussion previously...
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 8:38 PM
So far all I gather of your opinion in terms of action is "There is nothing to do...and [this is] virtually unsolvable through any form of legislation."

Do you have any tips on how to stop the "decay of societal norms and values"? Maybe we can think and pray on it?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 8:44 PM
I will be praying for your thinking.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 8:49 PM
Fore, give us some ideas on gun control. What exactly do you think needs to be done? How will it impact crime, specifically mass shootings?
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 15, 18 8:52 PM
Save it for someone who'd appreciate it :)
Feb 15, 18 8:53 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Dnice, you may have missed it but I'm off the gun control wagon, that ship has sailed.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 8:53 PM
Every teacher in America should go on strike and take to the streets to demand sensible gun legislation. All assault weapons should be bought back, confiscated, and banned *(again).
You'll be upset, but you'll be fine with all our thoughts and prayers.

* From 1973 to present, there were 108 mass shootings. 92 occurred before and after the ten year ban (1994-2004), and 16 during. Comes out to 1.69x as many mass shootings in non-ban years. That number would come down drastically ...more
Feb 15, 18 10:06 PM appended by June Bug
The families of American soldiers killed in combat get $100,000 tax free. The families of American teachers killed in combat get nothing.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 15, 18 10:06 PM
You get a shotgun for hunting and a six shot hand gun for home protection and that's it.
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 16, 18 5:56 AM
No... YOU get a shotgun for hunting and a six shot hand gun for home protection.

A) I don't hunt
B) Come and get what I already have.
Feb 16, 18 7:46 AM appended by Po Boy
IT'S NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS WHAT I CHOOSE TO PROTECT MY HOME AND FAMILY WITH.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 7:46 AM
Actually, there's lots of laws that limit how you can protect your home.

For example, a man was once held criminally liable for setting up a rifle pointed at his door that would discharge when someone turned the doorknob.

On a side-note, do you think you should be allowed to own a fully-functional tank? A loaded fighter jet? A live nuke?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 8:44 AM
SSDD.... you're beginning to Fore me... I mean bore me with the nonsense...

This is why the problem will never get solved...stuck in a loop...
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 9:15 AM
Doesn't change the fact that it obviously is our business how you choose to protect your home, using the example of spring-loaded traps for one.

I also noticed you avoided the question of where a reasonable limit on weapons of war should be. Probably because you would choose the standard libertarian answer ("SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"), but you won't say so we're left to speculate.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 9:21 AM
Supreme Court decided that...

Who am I to argue.
Feb 16, 18 9:30 AM appended by Po Boy
See. There you telling me what I think...AGAIN.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 9:30 AM
1 member liked this comment
Here, I'm simply drawing conclusions because you won't say.

If you have an opinion on where a reasonable limit on weapons of war should be you should stand by it, not hide it from us.

This comment section is completely devoid of personal consequences, what have you got to lose?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 10:06 AM
Seconds from my day...that's what I have to lose.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 10:42 AM
That's fine, but you're still commenting.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 10:47 AM
I have no desire to use this site as your own little Constitutional Convention... to "solve" all the problems down to the detail.. fully knowing there is no such avenue to our avail. Seems rather silly.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 12:34 PM
You don't make suggestions to your elected officials?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 12:53 PM
Me personally, no.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 1:06 PM
Ah, so how do you plan to effect change, if at all?

As for me, the 27east comment section is where I draft my letters!

I'm not foolish enough to think I have all the answers, so I bounce ideas off everyone to highlight sources of consensus or disagreement in my views.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 1:24 PM
Well duh...you want to find the chink in the armor and to use those with opposing view points to create the slippery slope.... to which to draft your letters.

No sh*t!!!! Be sure to mention legislation won't fix the problem.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 18, 18 9:19 PM
No doubt, I use these conversations in that way. Imagine if I was just sitting around commenting without purpose or direction? How sad!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 20, 18 8:38 AM
Pssst...hate to tell you this...this is all BS and the fact that you think it adds to purpose and direction is rather sad!
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 20, 18 9:24 AM
We all have reasons for the things we do, right? Imagine doing things for no reason at all? That's no way to live.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 20, 18 10:09 AM
Who are you to judge what's "no way to live"?
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 20, 18 11:53 AM
Why your anonymous neighbor, of course :-)
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 20, 18 12:04 PM
Fences make good neighbors, judgment does not.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 20, 18 12:21 PM
1 member liked this comment
That's fair, but it's where anonymity serves! We can tell each other how we really feel without repercussions. After all, I choose to avoid controversial topics like politics with my actual neighbors.

Having said that a purposeless life IS no way to live. I have a hard time believing you don't agree with that, even if you think the purpose is Jesus or something.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 20, 18 4:25 PM
why weren't there more "losers" like this evil incarnate 25 or 30 years ago JuneZ?
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 15, 18 4:22 PM
Because Columbine "broke the ice", o' well informed one.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 15, 18 8:14 PM
There have always been "evil losers". Since citing the cases from 1966 earlier today, I just now learn that the grandfather of one of the young girls who had to hide in FL also had to hide in a closet in his home in Camden, NJ in 1949 !!! while someone shot and killed 13 people and wounded 3 including members of his family.
As for why there are more cases of mass shootings nowadays is a subject for sociologists and anthropologists. Among the many societal changes in recent decades, ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 15, 18 8:52 PM
1 member liked this comment
Is your comment a shot, pardon the pun, at both guns and the male gender?
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 15, 18 11:34 PM
Via CNN:

19 of the 30 deadliest mass shootings have taken place in the last decade. What has changed on the federal level?

Updated 12:24 PM ET, Thu February 15, 2018


Nothing.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 15, 18 8:10 PM
What could have been done to prevent them at the federal level.

Nothing.

Meanwhile, the murder rate and other crime rates decline.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 8:13 PM
Or, population increases have diluted the numbers. Per capita = for every 100,000 people.

Per the FBI, violent crime has increased while property crime has decreased. Murder rates increased in 2016, and the 2017 data has yet to be released.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 15, 18 8:25 PM
Aside from the original point you made which is completely unsubstantiated as to the impact that could have been made...Oh, so it's not as straight forward as might have been presented.

Feb 15, 18 8:36 PM appended by Po Boy
Z, as I look through the handful of "news sources" that have picked up your post, I take great amusement that NONE of them have had any posts, reactions, activity....NOTHING!
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 8:36 PM
Well maybe you're just not smart or resourceful enough to know where to look...
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 15, 18 11:35 PM
Wow, didn't see an attack on intelligence coming from someone who thinks they understand the issue better than they really do.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 7:40 AM
Well then, do you know where I'm published?
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 16, 18 7:44 AM
Well then, does that have anything to do with your original post?
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 8:00 AM
America's traditions and social mores have been slowly eroded over the past decade, the school shootings are the result of that. Fundamentally transforming America indeed
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 15, 18 8:16 PM
GOP "tradition"...

Kimmel writer quotes every GOP lawmaker’s post-Florida ‘thoughts and prayers’ tweet — and how much money they took from the NRA

Noor Al-Sibai
14 FEB 2018 AT 20:12 ET

As Republicans begin heaping “thoughts and prayers” on the families of the 17-plus people killed in Wednesday’s deadly shooting at a high school outside Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, a writer for Jimmy Kimmel Live! made sure to note how much each ...more
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 15, 18 8:44 PM
1 member liked this comment
Terrible Z that these donors were all for legal gun ownership and you want to relate them to some nut that committed this heinous crime.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 15, 18 8:55 PM
This is why the real problem will never be solved or addressed. Stop being the problem.

Political correctness has been taken off the table as a possible cause and it is preferably served for political reasons to look at unrelated causes as the problem.

By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 15, 18 8:56 PM
dnice, I think he's suggesting that folks who receive NRA donations are not actually supporters of the second amendment, but merely oppose gun control laws for self-serving reasons.

Whether we all come to the same conclusion based on those donations is an individual choice.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 9:03 PM
Politicians, self serving? Groundbreaking.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 15, 18 9:05 PM
1 member liked this comment
On the flipside, I'm reminded of what my conservative friend said about the pro-life politician who was found to have paid for his mistress' abortion: "who cares what they actually think as long as they vote the way I want them to!"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 15, 18 9:10 PM
2 members liked this comment
Cruz was in fact taking drugs for depression, his deadly outburst would follow an established pattern of mass shooters who were also on psychotropic medication.
Perhaps the most infamous medicated school shooters were Columbine gunmen Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, who tested positive for the SSRI Luvox following the deadly massacre.
Charleston church shooter Dylan Roof was also found to be taking Suboxone, a drug linked to sudden outbursts of violence.
But don’t expect the mainstream ...more
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 16, 18 1:10 AM
Are psychotropic drugs not prescribed in Australia or Canada, e.g., or in India (which has the second highest number of guns in circulation after the US)?
Is there no mental illness in these countries or others where there are no mass shootings?
We have a gun problem. Period. Bravo to our teens who just might be the catalyst to restore us to sanity, who are asserting that their right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness trumps the right to own a military grade arsenal.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 16, 18 6:21 PM
People are getting massacred all over the place, and the only thing po boy is worried about is playing with his guns.
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 16, 18 5:54 AM
1 member liked this comment
Awesome Mf...
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 7:35 AM
Metsfan, it is ridiculous posts like this that show your lack of maturity.

I have asked you before, and anyone who wishes may answer, what do you propose as new gun control legislation specifically and how will it curb gun violence?
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 16, 18 8:31 AM
You get a shotgun for hunting and a six shot hand gun for home protection, that's it. Rigorous background checks, education, and licensing. Does that work for you?
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 16, 18 9:03 AM
Hell no. There will be no limit on what firearm I as a lawful person shall own. We already have rigorous background checks. I would be all for more education and mandatory instruction but that will not stop criminals from obtaining guns. So I am supposed to limit myself while the criminal does not? Don't you see the weakness in that mindset. Criminals, by definition, do not obey the law. It logically follows that criminals will not obey any new gun legislation. Limiting types of guns and ...more
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 16, 18 10:48 AM
How free are the seventeen just massacred in Florida.
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 16, 18 12:17 PM
I'm pretty sure their parents don't want you flippantly using their dead children in attempts to score cheap political points.

Stop it. You're grotesque.
By even flow (624), East Hampton on Feb 16, 18 12:23 PM
What would you say to the parents who are themselves "attempting to score cheap political points" because they're angry they had to bury their teenagers?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 12:54 PM
Parents burying their teenager are emotional and have every right to score whatever points they feel is appropriate to grieve.

Some knucklehead(s) on a message board, while disturbed by the event as we all are, using the event to flippantly score political points, is rather grotesque and disturbing in its own right.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 1:06 PM
2 members liked this comment
So it's not the message you have a problem with, but the messenger?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 2:06 PM
"How free are the seventeen just massacred in Florida."

It is a tragic, but they probably would have been alive had the FBI followed the processes in place and had prevented this sick kid from access to firearms.

Metsfan, you are delusional to think that you will be able to keep firearms out of the wrong hands. DELUSIONAL! No amount of legislation or restriction will prevent criminals from attaining illegal firearms.

Perhaps we should start thinking about mandatory metal ...more
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 16, 18 8:12 PM
1 member liked this comment
Metal detectors? Why not. That only alerts people to the existence of a weapon, though. It doesn't actually stop anyone from shooting.

Also, from experience, the bidders will try to upsell body scanners instead and those are a quarter million dollars each.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 17, 18 7:35 AM
@dnice:
First you say "the massacred seventeen would have been alive had the FBI prevented this sick kid from access to firearms". In the very next sentence you slam Mets fan as delusional for thinking they can keep firearms out of the wrong hands. Which is it, Hon?
Yet more deficiency in smarts, in ideology, in logic, in consistency. The evidence grows......
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 19, 18 2:37 PM
1 member liked this comment
The next election will see if people are serious about gun control, or if they find it more bearable to have massacred school children, church goers, or even concerts.
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 16, 18 5:58 AM
The kid murdered 17 kids in a state with the death penalty. I’m not so sure a felony for illegal possession of a gun would serve as a deterrent to someone that has blamed voices in his head.
By SlimeAlive (809), Southampton on Feb 16, 18 6:23 AM
Also, by all accounts the rifle was obtained legally.

Perhaps we shouldn't have allowed that sale in the first place.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 6:25 AM
Meaning what?
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 7:34 AM
That the kid who got kicked out of school for violent tendencies and was reported to the FBI should not have been allowed to buy an AR, or should have had the cops show up at his door asking for it.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 7:40 AM
Correct Fore, this was a major mistake by the FBI. They were warned and almost twenty years later we still see poor communication between law enforcement branches.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 16, 18 8:32 AM
1 member liked this comment
Can we get some funding for a country-wide "do-not-sell-a-gun-to" database? Perhaps empower local Law Enforcement with the information they need to take firearms from the wrong hands?

To anticipate some questions: Yes, that implies a national registry of where some guns are, and "the wrong hands" are those which have been adjudicated as a danger to themselves or others.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 8:39 AM
We already have that database. It's how they learned who the shooter was...by running the serial number on the gun he left at the scene.

Empowering law enforcement while seemingly a good idea, is a slippery slope that has a lot of potential to infringe on Constitutional rights. I'm all for linking mental health adjudication to the "do-not-sell" database. I think you'll find guns already are taken away from those who have been adjudicated as mentally unstable. Mental adjudication is a tough ...more
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 8:54 AM
Put mental health aside for a moment, my comment didn't mention it.

I'm talking about people who are adjudicated as a danger to themselves or others, for example a kid who gets kicked out of school because of recorded on-going violent tendencies.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 9:02 AM
I would be very speptical of who gets to make that determination
Feb 16, 18 10:49 AM appended by dnice
skeptical
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 16, 18 10:49 AM
We already have institutions that make those determinations in law enforcement (for example, when a protection order is granted), public schools, and other forms of government.

The goal would be to narrow the focus away from the catch-all "mental illness" (which can mean anything from nervous ticks to suicidal/homicidal tendencies) to something more specific (for example, "danger to oneself or others") and provide a level of due process to guarantee constitutional rights.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 11:02 AM
A NATION MOURNS, AGAIN...
FBI WAS WARNED...
YOUTUBE: 'Professional school shooter'...
Video Wasn't a Strong Lead...
Sheriff calls for power to detain over posts...
THE MEDS...
'Emotional fragility'...
UPDATE: Local law enforcement says NO TIES to white nationalists...
He arrived in an UBER!
Threats, hoaxes, anxiety, arrests: Uneasiness grips schools...
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 8:25 AM
Why did the orange cheetoh rescind the ban of the mentally ill being able to buy guns?
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 16, 18 9:00 AM
Because that particular form of adjudication dealt specifically with the ability to handle one's finances and lacked due process.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 9:03 AM
1 member liked this comment
June...take note.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 16, 18 9:42 AM
Yes, I also take note of the fact that trump's budget contains drastic cuts in mental health care benefits for Medicare and Medicaid recipients.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 16, 18 1:18 PM
1 member liked this comment
I see your son started a blog .
By joe hampton (3092), The Hamptons on Feb 16, 18 6:20 PM
Having breathlessly reported that Florida gunman Nikolas Cruz was a member of a white supremacist group, media outlets across the world failed to issue retractions when it emerged that this story was completely fake news.
The farce began when the Anti-Defamation League and Associated Press reported that a representative of the Republic of Florida Militia, a group that believes in a “white ethnostate,” told them that Cruz was a member of the organization.
However, it quickly emerged ...more
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 16, 18 10:31 AM
Wrong.

Republic of Florida is a real white separatist group.

The leader of the group is still saying the shooter was a member.

The Tallahassee Sherriff's office are the ones saying they don't have "evidence of links" to the group. I guess they don't think the leader's statement is evidence? Time will tell.
Feb 16, 18 10:46 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
So apparently the leader of the group has walked back his comments, saying there was a “misunderstanding” about Cruz’s ties to the group. “There was a legit misunderstanding because we have MULTIPLE people named Nicholas in ROF...I got a bunch of conflicting information and I have not slept for like 2 days.” He continued by bashing the media: “Are you really going to blame ME for the lying j** media? We know they are liars. F*** em.”
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 10:46 AM
Just how much carnage dnice does it take to move your position. How many massacred five and six year olds does it take? how many many murdered teenagers? How many slaughtered concert goers? How many worshiping church people does it take? How much carnage?
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 16, 18 5:14 PM
You offer no solutions Metsfan. I asked specifically and you say a shotgun and a revolver. You are out of your depth on the subject and standing on the graves of dead children does nothing but point out how you like to demonize those who disagree with you.

You were kind of mildly entertaining when you used to follow Philathome around, liking all of his hate filled comments, but now you are exposed as the one trick pony that your posts show you to be. All blowhard with no real solutions.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 16, 18 8:21 PM
You think it's okay to be legal for a 19 year old to buy an AR-15? why don't we start with a ban on semi-automatic rifles. Shove your thoughts and prayers. It's time for action. Your right wing nut agenda is more important than all the dead massacred slaughtered butchered innocent people who have perished, you are a truly despicable person.
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 16, 18 9:52 PM
COLORADO SCHOOLS ARM TEACHERS TO PREVENT ANOTHER COLUMBINE TRAGEDY
State began arming teachers following 1999 school massacre

Sensible and should be the norm
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 16, 18 11:23 PM
Lol, thanks for proving my point Mf. Your reading comprehension aside, you truly are an enlightened and insightful poser, um poster.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 16, 18 11:33 PM
mets fan "your right wing nut agenda is more important than all the dead massacred slaughtered butchered innocent people who have perished

abortion 55 million dead massacred slaughtered butchered innocent people who have perished

just look at what you are saying, really look at it . sigh


By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on Feb 16, 18 11:43 PM
If life begins at conception, why don't we count miscarriages as part of our population statistics?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 17, 18 7:05 AM
Probably for the same reason we don't count murdered kids.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 20, 18 11:20 AM
1 member liked this comment
Trump cleared? Indictment says Russians worked with 'unwitting' participants... Did I miss something here... So all they really came up with is some people opened Facebook and Twitter accounts and said nice things about Trump and bad things about Hillary. So pretty much similar to the nightly news every single night for a year except bashing Trump and protraying Hillary as a goddess.... I believe the MUCH larger collusioin is with mainstream media... Huh, nothing to see there, move it along... ...more
By joe hampton (3092), The Hamptons on Feb 16, 18 5:39 PM
1 member liked this comment
Seems obvious the swamp is angling to use these indictments as a weapon to censor the internet before the next election.
By Undocumented Democrat (1664), southampton on Feb 16, 18 6:11 PM
I hear Marvel Comics is looking to expand their writing staff. You should get right on it--I'm sure they'd make you a very nice offer.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 16, 18 6:50 PM
You are an abetting treasonous Russia lover. Your orange goddess that you worship has now admitted Russia meddled in the elections. Going down will be Jared, donnie johnny junior, and the great money launderer orange cheetoh.
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 16, 18 8:01 PM
Rosenstein: "No Allegation in This Indictment That Any American Had Any Knowledge" Of Russian Election Influence Operation
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 16, 18 6:16 PM
Go Mueller go! Donnie Jr. loves it, especially later in the summer.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 16, 18 6:21 PM
Key words: in THIS indictment.
Tick tock tick tock.....
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 16, 18 7:45 PM
@ 27dan (& joe hampton & widow gavits)

Well, there is that "unidentified American" mentioned in the indictment who advised the Russians on propaganda tactics as to which states it would be most effective to target. In addition, as the political commentator on CBS said today, we have to understand that this individual is cooperating with the FBI and may already have taken a guilty plea under seal. Also mentioned was that these indictments are the EARLIEST judicial fruits of the Mueller ...more
By highhatsize (3524), East Quogue on Feb 16, 18 8:00 PM
As previously suggested . . .

Mueller's foundation is being constructed methodically -- brick-by-brick -- 2x4 by 2x4, etc. etc..

Interesting that this wave of indictments was not leaked ahead of time?

A tight ship!

NO ONE has any idea what is yet to come, especially Trump.

"Tick tock tick tock" pretty well covers it!
By PBR (4857), Southampton on Feb 16, 18 8:09 PM
1 member liked this comment
"Good luck good luck" is probably more appropriate.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 16, 18 8:13 PM
Is anyone else out of breadcrumbs?
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 17, 18 12:04 AM
CNN is embarrassed and ashamed. All’s quiet on the leftist front
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 17, 18 1:09 AM
Zeldin being elected is the same as outfitting Cruz with an AR-15. Think about it. Democrats would have fought for a ban on semi-automatic rifles. Republicans won and now because of their steadfastness to making sure everyone can have as many guns (and what types of guns) and ammo they want. That's why we continue to have massive carnage. It is why blood is flowing through the streets with massacres and butchering. Welcome to right wing America. School children get massacred and all they do is defend ...more
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 17, 18 8:48 AM
MF: This is the most inane post from you yet, and believe me that's saying something! Blaming Zeldin for school shootings and blaming the Republican for defending the constitution and tangentially blaming them for the existence of evil in the world is just incredible. Your psychotic hatred for the right has renderd you incapable of rational thought.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 17, 18 12:12 PM
MF: This is the most inane post from you yet, and believe me that's saying something! Blaming Zeldin for school shootings and blaming the Republican for defending the constitution and tangentially blaming them for the existence of evil in the world is just incredible. Your psychotic hatred for the right has renderd you incapable of rational thought.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 17, 18 12:12 PM
Mets fan on tilt. Time to adjust the medication.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 17, 18 1:31 PM
Great idea bf let's outfit every under 21 with an AR-15. Sounds good right. That's why under right wing nut control, the streets are free flowing with blood. A vote for Zeldin is a vote for every right wing nut mental defective who wants to legally arm themselves with an AR-15, can do so under the approving Zeldin. Think about that!!!
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 17, 18 2:10 PM
Think about that when your kids leave for school every day.
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 17, 18 2:16 PM
Like i said from my cold dead hands... Your move
Feb 17, 18 3:27 PM appended by Ditch Bum
The Second Amendment provides U.S. citizens the right to bear arms. Ratified in December 1791, the amendment says:The people have the right to bear arms, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), is a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held, in a 5–4 decision, that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home, and that Washington, D.C.'s handgun ban and requirement that lawfully-owned rifles and shotguns be kept "unloaded and disassembled or bound by a trigger lock" violated this guarantee.
By Ditch Bum (464), Water Mill on Feb 17, 18 3:27 PM
No, Bum, that is not what the Second Amendment says. This is the correct text:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Your attempt to pass off a fake version exemplifies your total lack of integrity.

Quotation marks mean something and they should be used whenever copying the words of another. Here we find you attempting to rewrite the United States Constitution ...more
By VOS (1065), WHB on Feb 17, 18 10:46 PM
2 members liked this comment
Usual hyocritical right wing nut attitudes. You know they are the greatest supporters of our police force. However they have no problem with outfitting anyone with a semi-automatic rifle. How do you think our police feel about this when confronting a perp armed to the teeth with these weapons?
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 17, 18 8:52 AM
NPRJanuary 31, 20134:00 AM ET
Heard on Morning Edition
David Schaper 2010

Sheriff David Clarke has advised residents in a new PSA that they should consider taking a firearm safety course to defend themselves ... once you're on the street and someone sticks a gun in your face to take your car or your wallet, you don't have the option of calling 911," says Clarke.

With officers laid off and furloughed, Clarke says, calling 911 and waiting for police is no longer your best ...more
Feb 17, 18 10:40 AM appended by 27dan
There's an old saying that when seconds count, the police are minutes away !
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 17, 18 10:40 AM
1 member liked this comment
There's an old saying that cretins hinge on the words of crackpot devils, and hypocrites don't recognize their own hypocrisy.
The well-funded resistance to the sensible regulation of handguns, the easy availability of semi-automatic weapons and the resistance to preventing people with mental health issues from obtaining them, is a clear participation in EVIL. This is a LIFE issue, Mr. Right to Life.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 17, 18 11:18 AM
1 member liked this comment
If someone sticks a gun in your face, you are already pretty much out of options.
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 17, 18 2:15 PM
abortion 55 million dead massacred slaughtered butchered innocent people who have perished

clear participation in EVIL. This is a LIFE issue

just look at what you are saying, really look at it . sigh

By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on Feb 17, 18 3:15 PM
Erin don't you get it yet,

Obama type government protects the right to kill a babies further empowering these kind of people, The right to own a gun enpowers a different kind of person against that kind of government from going even further.
By Undocumented Democrat (1664), southampton on Feb 17, 18 3:22 PM
June Bug, you can't throw around terms like "sensible regulation" without giving us your definition of what you think that is. My guess is you can't.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 17, 18 3:30 PM
You would be Mf, no doubt. The last words out of your mouth would probably be "but we restricted access to guns, how did you get one.....?"
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 17, 18 3:35 PM
1 member liked this comment
Oh, I "really do look at it", Hon, and repeat in case it registers this time: Not word one out of Jesus of Nazareth, the Old Testament, the New Testament, the Sermon on the Mount, or in any creed on the subject of abortion. In Jewish law--ON WHICH CHRISTIANITY IS BASED--THERE IS NO LIFE UNTIL THERE IS BREATH. Is it God who "slaughters" millions via spontaneous abortion? Why no baptisms or Christian funerals required then or when a fetus is extracted to save the life of a mother? Anti-choicers ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 17, 18 3:57 PM
if i responded to your way of looking at "life" i would be red inked
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on Feb 17, 18 4:23 PM
Juney B, you lost me at "Hon"
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 17, 18 4:29 PM
If someone sticks a gun in your face, you are already pretty much out of options.
By Mets fan (1013), Southampton on Feb 17, 18 2:15 PM

Spoken with the eternal victim mentality we despise and refuse to be dragged into. NO! There are ALWAYS options.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 18, 18 9:07 PM
1 member liked this comment
@ 27dan

Make that EX-sheriff Dave Clark, the loopy, black, Far-Right, former sheriff of Milwaukee, WI, who layered the chest of his uniform shirt with two dozen buttons and badges and was blocked by Twitter for exhorting his readers to assault reporters and make them "taste their own blood". (He expected to be offered a White House gig when he resigned as sheriff but Chief of Staff John Kelly [i.e. one of the few RATIONAL Trump appointees] killed the idea.)

If the Black Panthers ...more
By highhatsize (3524), East Quogue on Feb 17, 18 11:19 AM
Another left wing racist outs himself. You couldn't make this stuff up.
By pw herman (925), southampton on Feb 17, 18 11:48 AM
David Alexander Clarke Jr. (born August 21, 1956) is a former American law enforcement official who was the Sheriff of Milwaukee County, Wisconsin from 2002 to 2017. In 2002, Clarke was appointed sheriff by Governor Scott McCallum, and later elected that same year to his first four-year term. He was re-elected in November 2006, 2010, and 2014.Clarke is registered and was elected as a Democrat in a heavily Democratic county,
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 17, 18 3:48 PM
1 member liked this comment
HHS, gotta shake my head a little at your post.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 17, 18 4:24 PM
Seems like HH, Z, JB FB & MF are Russian influenced posters who are out to disrupt our up to now pleasant and productive lives around here .
Trump On !!!
By pw herman (925), southampton on Feb 17, 18 6:03 PM
1 member liked this comment

HH, Z, JB, FB & MF aren't having to lift a finger. Mr. Mueller is doing all the heavy lifting to disrupt the Russian influence out of all of our lives.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 17, 18 6:59 PM
1 member liked this comment
Advanced Volatile Threat = Trump
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 17, 18 9:41 PM
Special counsel Robert Mueller charged 13 Russians and three Russian organizations for allegedly interfering in the U.S. 2016 presidential elections with the intention of promoting President Donald Trump’s candidacy by posting as American activists, creating Facebook groups and organizing fake rallies.

Whoopieeee 35 million and 14 months for Fake rallies ... and fake news

Bring on the mid terms!
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 17, 18 3:09 PM
1 member liked this comment
The 2nd Amendment was never originally about protecting gun rights. There was no "individual right to own a gun" until 2008 when the SC caved to the gun industry and lifted the ban on handguns in District of Columbia v. Heller. An amendment re: the parameters for individual militias (a/k/a Slave Patrols) in lieu of an unwanted standing army has zero relevance today. What it's become is a legal fiction conjured up by the gun industry and their SC buddies sold to y'all via an expensive PR campaign.
...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 17, 18 3:31 PM
Like i said from my cold dead hands :The people have the right to bear arms, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

Once again you're move .......
By Ditch Bum (464), Water Mill on Feb 17, 18 3:37 PM
To bear arms as part of a (free State) militia. Period.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 17, 18 4:00 PM
I Guess Junezy wasn't paying attention Ditch ...

District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), is a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held, in a 5–4 decision, that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home
By joe hampton (3092), The Hamptons on Feb 17, 18 4:18 PM
Good luck with your revisionist view of the drafting of the 2nd amendment June Bug. I just have to laugh and most of your posts.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 17, 18 4:19 PM
No Joe, Juney B is way smarter than Supreme Court Justices.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 17, 18 4:26 PM
1 member liked this comment
I guess you people can't read well.
As I said, the ban on handguns was lifted in this decision.
What the court did in essence is a rewrite of the amendment to satisfy the gun industry. Prior to Heller, no such right was included in the original amendment.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 17, 18 5:26 PM
You people? Lol.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 17, 18 5:56 PM
1 member liked this comment
Not taking offense easily is as important a moral commitment - and perhaps even more productive of mental health - as not giving offense carelessly.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 17, 18 6:48 PM
Hey dnice, since you take issue with my post re: the origins of the 2nd amendment, why don't you post your "view" as a rebut instead of a mocking, hollow reply? Luck I have plenty of, thank you. It's substance in your posts that's lacking.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 17, 18 7:25 PM
1 member liked this comment
Those who would wish to abolish the 2nd amendment always try to come up with their own interpretation of it in an attempt to erode or chip away at its protection. You claim that the court rewrote the amendment to satisfy the gun industry. Baseless claim. The court just reaffirmed what the founding fathers intended.

Btw, spare us your moral high ground. Not taking offense, giving offense, please....
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 17, 18 7:41 PM
1 member liked this comment
Most of don't want abolition.

We want a market that doesn't arm both sides.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 17, 18 9:34 PM
I guess that would highly depended on you definition of what those sides were. A line according to history that can shift and move against the will of the majority rather quickly wouldn't you say.
By joe hampton (3092), The Hamptons on Feb 18, 18 11:04 AM
Have you noted getting a driver's license is harder than getting a gun?
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 18, 18 11:07 AM
@dnice:
All federal judges for a whole century disagreed re: gun ownership and the SC justices were evenly split in DC v. Heller, but you know "what the founding fathers intended"? I guess we can say that it's you who is "smarter than the SC justices".
Even Justice Scalia's majority opinion is full of permission slips saying that THE CONSTITUTION LEAVES GOVERNMENT WITH MANY TOOLS FOR COMBATING THE PROBLEM OF GUN VIOLENCE, INCLUDING REGULATION.
Sad to say, the ...more
Feb 18, 18 11:44 AM appended by June Bug
...and another Scalia quote from the most pro-gun ruling ever: “Like most rights, the 2d Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep & carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever & for whatever purpose”
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 18, 18 11:44 AM
You both seem to forget, Many years ago lived in a country that went through what Joe is speaking to, and let me tell you few things if your willing to listen.

First there is a gun "on the street" for every person in the US ..... So if a bad seed wants one he is going to get it. You will never control all the weapons, they are hidden out of sight and will always be available on the black market. ( Besides we have been educated by our Radical freinds..... that In "no gun zones " much more ...more
By Undocumented Democrat (1664), southampton on Feb 18, 18 1:55 PM
What robust laws are you talking about btw that could have prevented this?
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 20, 18 10:27 AM
Tales from The Swamp:
So over a hundred million dollars was raised by trump's inaugural committee. Way more than Obama's, e.g., and raised to fund a way less elaborate celebration. For one, Rachel Maddow has been asking all year about the status of the excess which was supposed to go to charity.
This past week we learn that a friend of Melania trump's who set up an event planning company just prior to the inauguration --like 2 minutes before-- was paid $26 MM ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 17, 18 5:55 PM
Been waiting, will continue to wait....
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 17, 18 7:43 PM
"I close my eyes and know there's peace in a world so filled with hatred
Then I wake up each morning and turn on the news to find we've so far to go...

~ Styx
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 17, 18 10:02 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 17, 18 9:50 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 18, 18 1:17 AM
HILLARY CLINTON OUTSPENT RUSSIANS 53-1… AND STILL LOST

The Daily Caller

Hillary Clinton spent 53 times more money per month than Russians seeking to influence the 2016 presidential election.Clinton and her PAC spent about $66 million a month in 2016, a whopping 53 times more money than Russia’s $1.25 million monthly budget.

But the truly sick reality is that Hillary Clinton didn't pay for her campaign against Trump.....The Haitians did!!!
By Undocumented Democrat (1664), southampton on Feb 17, 18 10:26 PM
1 member liked this comment
Let's take a moment to honor the sacrifice of all the children who have laid down their lives to protect your right to own semi automatic weaponry.
By SlimeAlive (809), Southampton on Feb 18, 18 8:20 AM
1 member liked this comment
so you being a self admitted police officer are are on the record as an opponent of the second amendment and me being armed to protect my... Family, Life, Liberty , And Property against all treats both foreign and domestic ?
By joe hampton (3092), The Hamptons on Feb 18, 18 11:07 AM
Meanwhile, in current, actually newsworthy developments, National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster stated that evidence of Russian meddling in the 2016 election was "incontrovertible", earning a "tweeted" rebuke from The Donald that McMaster's neglected to state that the election results were not "impacted or changed by the Russians."

- - - Possibly because THAT statement would be a lie?

No matter how much contrary evidence is uncovered, and no matter how many authoritative individuals ...more
By highhatsize (3524), East Quogue on Feb 18, 18 8:24 AM
There is no evidence anywhere that Russian involvement changed the outcome of the election. The FBI could not have been more clear about that very specific point.

That's why you wrote "Possibly because THAT statement would be a lie?"

Because you don't have the ability to actually declare it a lie and support that statement.
By SlimeAlive (809), Southampton on Feb 18, 18 8:56 AM
"There is no evidence anywhere that Russian involvement changed the outcome of the election. The FBI could not have been more clear about that very specific point."

Actually the Mueller indictments and JD statement in no way said that. What they did say is that the Russians clearly did act to influence the election and even used Trump campaign personnel in the process. The statement did indicate that "in the current round of indictments" there is no evidence that Trump campaign officials ...more
By bird (687), Sag Harbor on Feb 18, 18 10:09 AM
“Now, there is no allegation in this indictment that any American was a knowing participant in this illegal activity. There is no allegation in the indictment that the charged conduct altered the outcome of the 2016 election.”


I want to thank the federal agents and prosecutors who are working on this case for their exceptional service, and I'll be happy to take a few questions.

QUESTION: Jack, is there concern that this -- the (ph) indictment undermines ...more
By even flow (624), East Hampton on Feb 18, 18 10:22 AM
Key words: "in the indictment...".

The statement clearly states the Russians DID work to affect the election in favor of Trump and used Trump campaign officials in their efforts although it appears those officials were oblivious they were being used.
By bird (687), Sag Harbor on Feb 18, 18 11:22 AM
The hardest part of being conned is admitting it.

"I will build a great wall -- and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me --and I'll build them very inexpensively. I will build a great, great wall on our southern border, and I will make Mexico pay for that wall. Mark my words."

~ Donald Trump
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 18, 18 11:46 AM
Petty much?
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 18, 18 9:31 PM
Did anyone here vote a certain way because of some social media crap? I got one did not and don’t use fake book or any of the others. Face it leftists, Hillary was the worst possible candidate.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 18, 18 11:08 AM
1 member liked this comment
"Hillary was the worst possible candidate" - Your statement is comparative without telling us what your control is. I will agree that Hillary was a terrible choice for a candidate and that many registered democrats could not bring themselves to vote for her which helped DJ to win.

As to wether or not the Russians had influence, of course they did. All one has to do is follow the statements made by people in these threads, parroting the falsehoods promoted by the Russians and repeated ad ...more
By bird (687), Sag Harbor on Feb 18, 18 11:44 AM
2 members liked this comment
Hillary is a charlatan with a trail of corruption in her wake stretching back to Arkansas when her husband , our impeached former president, was governor. Please tell me you didn't vote based on information obtained via fakebook.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 18, 18 12:26 PM
“There's no evidence of quid pro quo."

~ Peter Schweizer
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 18, 18 1:05 PM
A woman with an Ivy League education and a resume historically superior to anyone of either gender, in years of public service, and no doubt the most prepared candidate in modern history to assume the presidency is an "impostor claiming to have special knowledge or skill" in your book? And a woman subjected to more investigations than anyone else in our lifetimes and never found guilty of anything is "corrupt"? And it's crickets from you about trump, the most corrupt, thieving creep who ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 18, 18 1:20 PM
Something very painful seems to have happened to you along life's path Madam,

I wish you well .
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 18, 18 1:59 PM
A resume most clear thinking people see as one of lying, covering up and scandalous
By Ditch Bum (464), Water Mill on Feb 18, 18 5:55 PM
I would agree with your comment Dan, and let me just say that at this point after all the money and resources as well as a 24-hour media drum beating against the president of the United States and all that has been proven not to be real. If you still have this kind of animosity towards the president there's nothing that can be said except you are a blatant idealogue
By widow gavits (174), sag harbor on Feb 18, 18 3:18 PM
President Trump's Russia denialism is grounds for impeachment

Kurt Bardella, Opinion columnist Published 3:15 a.m. ET Feb. 16, 2018 | Updated 5:48 p.m. ET Feb. 16, 2018


That fundamental right to choose our own leaders is under siege and the president is not only doing nothing, he won't accept that it's happening.

The 35 words that make a president: “I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and ...more
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 18, 18 3:33 PM
1 member liked this comment
Wolf Blitzer - The Year 2038 " UPDATE ! WE ARE EXPECTING EVIDENCE OF RUSSIA - TRUMP COLLUSION ANY DAY NOW !
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 18, 18 3:44 PM
3 members liked this comment
really its at the point this is just silly, how do you people keep this charade going it must be exhausting. thank you president trump you are the best !
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on Feb 18, 18 3:49 PM
In what universe would any previous president of the United States refuse to comply with a law imposing sanctions on Russia, or to the nation after proof of an attack designed to weaken our form of government, or established a commission within 24 hours to thwart further attacks? This pos is obviously owned by Russia and is guilty of treason and dereliction of duty, and the Americans who continue to support him automatically qualify as enemies of the state.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 18, 18 4:22 PM
I'll take this one Erin,

Flashback: That Time The Obama Administration Spent Hundreds Of Thousands Of Dollars To Defeat Benjamin Netanyahu Jul 12, 2016 - The State Department paid hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxpayers grants to an Israeli group that used the money to build a campaign to oust Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in last year’s Israeli parliamentary elections, a congressional investigation concluded Tuesday.

Lets spin the wheel of hypocracy some more ...more
Feb 18, 18 5:47 PM appended by They call me
trust me is there is one word i can spell its hypocrisy. I have had to use it dealing with the likes of you for to long. I really don't care if I spelled a word wrong since I am doing 3 thinks at once at the moment and sorry we did not get any Saturday night snow so you could spend the day sledding.
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 18, 18 5:47 PM
You've cited zero credible sources, and can't even spell "hypocrisy".

Yep, we should take you seriously, LOL...
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 18, 18 5:59 PM
Claptrap of the first order.
Schweitzer? Seriously? Author of a slapped-together, totally discredited hit job? Still regurgitating Uranium One after all your RW claims have been shown to be as valid as those of your Benghazi hiccups. Too dense not to even be ashamed of posting dreck.
"Doing 3 thinks" are you? Impressive!
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 18, 18 6:53 PM
Zero credible sources ? Claptrap ?? OMFG translation none of the information you provided was written by Matt Taibbi from Rolling Stoned. LOLLLLLLL
Feb 18, 18 7:00 PM appended by Ditch Bum
Schweitzer, a journalist is not a credible source but let me guess Michael Wolff is a credible source lollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
By Ditch Bum (464), Water Mill on Feb 18, 18 7:00 PM
This is LOL.

Trump Is F*cking Crazy (This Is Not a Joke)
By: Keith Olbermann
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 18, 18 9:02 PM
Keith Olbermann? October 2017?????

Keith Olbermann Is F*cking Crazy (This Is Not a Joke). You still have time to redeem yourself, Z....but the clock is ticking.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 18, 18 9:28 PM
2 members liked this comment
only an absolute idiot would have their opinion on who to vote for in a presidential election swayed by info on FAKEBOOK OR TWATTER
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 18, 18 10:09 PM
Precisely why the Russians spent millions on the effort---they know the extent of American idiocy, and worked to thwart the possibility of a formidable foe as president and instead install our idiot, and their useful idiot.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 19, 18 10:33 AM
1 member liked this comment
If you haven't read it, you should really just shut the **** up. Grifter in Chief, indeed.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 19, 18 9:54 PM
The focus on whether Russia affected the outcome of the election is unnecessary in my opinion, the primary issue (now that we've established support for the Trump campaign) is whether the campaign knew about that support and whether they tried to cover it up.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 20, 18 8:41 AM
Digging into the source code of voting machines to see if they were exposed to volatile malware would be interesting. It could be time consuming to see if an AVT altered a machine's programming in any way.


Hackers at DefCon conference exploit vulnerabilities in voting machines

Elizabeth Weise, July 30, 2017


LAS VEGAS – Hackers 5, voting machines 0.

It took less than a day for attendees at the DefCon hacking conference to find and exploit vulnerabilities ...more
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 20, 18 9:49 PM
Carl Bernstein Praises Mueller And Rosenstein's "Brilliant Timing, In Terms Of Undercutting The President," "Master Stroke"

Uh Carl, collusion was what you were going on and on about. What we see is the death rattle of a formerly credible journalist that is now reduced to rambling on about straw-man outrages. Pathetic to watch.
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 18, 18 4:07 PM
And yet another guilty plea. Mueller flipping trumpgoons like a short order cook!
TICK TOCK TICK TOCK TICK TOCK......
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 18, 18 7:00 PM
at first it bothered me when you made fun of me for having a great family or that i was a stay at home mom , but as time goes by and i observe your bitter antics and ridged far left radical view points, i kind of feel bad for you.

you need a friend.
Feb 18, 18 7:09 PM appended by Erin 27 E
and most definitely a hug
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on Feb 18, 18 7:09 PM
@Erin 27: If your post is directed at me, you're either mistaken or smoking something. I have no earthly idea who you are, or of your life or lifestyle, and even if I did, what relevance would it have in a discussion of contemporary world affairs?
Like you, I live in a country where all views are allowed and encouraged, so, Hon, no pity required. Good luck finding whoever it is who had knowledge of your situation prior to this revelation.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 18, 18 7:58 PM
Paranoia is a right wing prerequisite for membership.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 18, 18 9:49 PM
Says who?
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 18, 18 9:53 PM
1 member liked this comment
June do you live in a homeless shelter with no internet connection or WiFi ? Friday’s grand jury indictment in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation of Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election destroys Democratic claims that the Trump presidential campaign colluded with Russia to win the race, and that the Russian interference cost Hillary Clinton the election. It is now time for Mueller to look into real election interference and collusion with the Russians by the ...more
By widow gavits (174), sag harbor on Feb 18, 18 7:21 PM
Uh, Widow, it must be you who lives in a homeless shelter.
My post refers to Rick Gates' plea announced today, not Friday's Grand Jury indictment.

But while I'm here, the indictment does not exonerate anyone of collusion, and the "narrative" is far from "dead". Boom. The indictment deals merely with one finger of a glove of illegal activity surrounding the campaign, that of the Russians' use of social media. Other fingers such as hacking and contacts with Russians, ...more
Feb 18, 18 7:48 PM appended by June Bug
@SethAbramson Feb 16 It's fortunate you only watch Fox News—as from watching that media outlet you would've had no idea that these events have been traced by both major media *and* independent journalists. And it's from within that ignorance that you claim Russia's 2014 actions are exculpatory. Neither Bob Mueller nor major-media journalists like Luke Harding are tracing your involvement with the Russians as beginning in 2015—when you announced your presidential run. They are seeing evidence that in 2013—and even before—you had let Russia know your political plans. It will be found—as it's the only theory of the case consistent with the facts—that it was your statement to Russian nationals that you'd run for president in 2016 that was the proximate cause of their decision to wage a massive cyber-campaign explicitly directed to aid you. CONCLUSION/ *No one* in the intel community confirms your claim—or Pence's—that the election results weren't affected by Russia. And we already *know* from macroanalysis that your hijinks with Giuliani to coerce Comey into re-opening Clinton's case *did* affect the results. {end}
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 18, 18 7:48 PM
1 member liked this comment
Is it any surprise they idolize a grifter like Trump?

The settlement for his faux "University" totaled about 25 million dollars. "Swamp" is dirtier and more self dealing than ever.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 18, 18 9:56 PM
No, we just judge him on the job he was hired to do, not the job he did.
Feb 18, 18 10:13 PM appended by Po Boy
....and by did, I mean "did." "Did" meaning your definition.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 18, 18 10:13 PM
1 member liked this comment
5 U.S. Code § 3110 - Employment of relatives; restrictions
US Code
Authorities (CFR)

(a) For the purpose of this section—
(1) “agency” means—
(A) an Executive agency;
(B) an office, agency, or other establishment in the legislative branch;
(C) an office, agency, or other establishment in the judicial branch; and
(D) the government of the District of Columbia;

(2) “public official” means an officer (including the ...more
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 18, 18 10:53 PM
Jonathan Turley now questioning the possibility of trump having an "Edwards/ Clinton problem", pointing out that it's the "side issues" that often bring an official down. In trump's case, he says his payouts to buy the silence of a porn star and a Playboy bunny are possible violation of campaign finance law.

By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 19, 18 10:47 AM
Given the opportunity , who wouldn't have sex with that hottie ? Bill Clinton ?
By Ditch Bum (464), Water Mill on Feb 19, 18 5:22 PM
That's almost as gross as when Trump tried to offer her money afterwards.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 20, 18 8:29 AM
the FOOLS that live their lives on by fakebook or twatter were going to vote democrat anyway
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 18, 18 10:22 PM
2 members liked this comment
And your evidence is......?
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 19, 18 10:24 AM
So Trump is voting Democrat in 2018???
By bird (687), Sag Harbor on Feb 19, 18 11:18 AM
Look at who is whining about Russia using social media to spread alleged misinformation, liberal democrat Hillary and Bernie sycophants. The real scam was perpetrated by the DNC and Clinton Crime Syndicate when they submarined Bernie, Super delegates indeed.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 19, 18 12:36 PM
So activity by a hostile foreign power to subvert a democratic soverign nation is a mere "scam" to you? Sir, you're an idiot for whom a long sentence in a Siberian gulag would be poetic justice.
Feb 19, 18 1:00 PM appended by June Bug
Correction: "sovereign".
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 19, 18 1:00 PM
In a nine hour Twitter rant over Saturday and Sunday, The Donald finessed the latest mass-murder of children as a platform to blame the FBI for the carnage and to minimize Russian election interference - - - AGAIN. (He lied about his previous denials.)

Trump is by now the only person in the world who doesn't believe the Russian sabotage occurred, and his disbelief has paralyzed government efforts to formulate a comprehensive strategy to prevent its recurrence THIS year.

Do any ...more
By highhatsize (3524), East Quogue on Feb 19, 18 9:25 AM
abortion 55 million dead massacred slaughtered butchered innocent people who have perished

By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on Feb 19, 18 9:50 AM
There is no personhood until there is breath. "55 million" zygotes are not persons.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 19, 18 10:21 AM
you are a cold individual if you can look at a ultrasound pictures and not see a child
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on Feb 19, 18 3:15 PM
Pick the Bible or science. Advocating both makes you a hypocrite.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 19, 18 6:05 PM
It must suck to be faithless.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 19, 18 6:45 PM
1 member liked this comment
Well, agnostics aren't "faithless". We just know the difference between reality and fairy tales. Most of the founders of this country were Deists.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 19, 18 6:49 PM
@ Erin 27
Aristotelian philosophers call the early stage of fetal development vegetative life. At this stage all cells have electric and automatic reactions as did Terri Schiavo when she was in a permanent vegetative state. The fetus has a face long before it has a brain, and animation before it has a command center to be aware of its movements or to experience any reaction as pain. So up to viability, you have a collection of human cells, but not a human person composed of body, mind, ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 19, 18 8:55 PM
Have you ever used a voltaic pile on frog's legs?
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 19, 18 9:56 PM
Hey Z, we don't always agree, as a matter of fact we seem to rarely agree, but I respect you as a member here. Just don't want you to think that it is personal or that I am attacking you.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 24, 18 5:56 PM
@ Erin 27 E

Right.

Let's reprise the abortion debate rather than focus on the current danger that a mentally impaired president poses to our existence (and to the lives our descendents [including fetuses.])

Only a true believer would attempt such a clumsy attempt at misdirection. Those of normal percipience would be embarrassed.
By highhatsize (3524), East Quogue on Feb 19, 18 11:01 AM
1 member liked this comment
Have a great, but very reflective, President's Day!

~ The Prez

Sure am Mr. President. Keep up the great work! Anything that drives Leftists this crazy, has to be good for the country.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 19, 18 1:52 PM
Po Boy - Since when is ignorance, stupidity and narcissism good for the country?
By bird (687), Sag Harbor on Feb 19, 18 2:55 PM
1 member liked this comment
bird, please don't confuse bliss with ignorance, dumbing it down for stupidity or self-confidence with narcissism.

America is getting greater by the second!
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 19, 18 7:33 PM
History experts in New York Times op-ed: Trump worst president ever, Obama in top 10

Bob Jordan, @BobJordanAPP Published 5:26 p.m. ET Feb. 19, 2018 | Updated 5:48 p.m. ET Feb. 19, 2018
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 19, 18 9:29 PM
386 days and Hillary is still a free woman.

Sad!
By johnj (793), Westhampton on Feb 19, 18 3:32 PM
So you advocate abortion up to birth JuneZ? Absolutely inhuman and barbaric !
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 19, 18 7:26 PM
There hasn't been a discussion re: viability of a fetus on this thread that I have participated in, so your presumptive, judgmental comment does not pertain to me, and should be retracted.
Despite what I suspect your opinion is based on, abortion is not a theological matter. It is a matter of natural law, to be decided by natural reason which means we must turn to reason and science. To philosophers, neurobiologists, embryologists.
I do not "advocate" abortion. Neither ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 19, 18 8:44 PM
1 member liked this comment
How do you sleep ?
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 19, 18 10:33 PM
If that's an open question for the pro-choice folks:

On my back with blackout curtains and a glass of water on the nightstand.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 20, 18 8:26 AM
Some people on this board look so foolish now, In the past 18 months we have banded together and fought tirelessly, we have illuminated there hypocrisy and exposed there ideological hatred , They are now broken and confused.

I am tempted to declare the our side has won.

But they will never stop conniving, twisting and lying. They feel that fate has dealt them a raw deal that must be avenged. The Cristian white male and anyone who supports them must pay... They believe the hand ...more
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 19, 18 8:12 PM
Morons
Are
Governing
America
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 19, 18 9:26 PM
P.S. "lying"? If the [expletive deleted] kettle is going to call the pot black, holy ****, FCOL...
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 19, 18 9:57 PM
John Oliver Latest Rant: Donald Trump vs. The World.

FLASHBACK: This is the same funny man who said he had a check for Mr. Trump if only he would announce his running for President? What an a--hat.

I guess Oliver misses the good old days when it was Obama and the world versus the USA.
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 19, 18 10:32 PM
Surprise, surprise:

Trump rigged Miss Universe pageants to favor countries where he had business interests: report

Brad Reed
19 FEB 2018 AT 11:50 ET
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 19, 18 9:27 PM
The first thing that a tyrannical regime does when they come to power is ban religion, and disarm the population. Nazi Germany did it. Communist Russia did it. And there's a political party in the United States that wants to do both. sadly, the left in this country does not care about our sensibilities. They have gone from seeking acceptance of some of their beliefs to outright promotion and indoctrination of them, and anything contrary to them...such as Christianity...must be belittled, marginalized, ...more
By Undocumented Democrat (1664), southampton on Feb 19, 18 10:26 PM
2 members liked this comment
"The first thing that a tyrannical regime does when they come to power is ban religion" - Kind of like the republicans and the Trump administration and their ban on muslums all the while shoving THEIR religious views down everyone else's throat.

The next thing a tyrannical regime does is shut down the free press, also like Trump and the republicans.

Finally, UD, we agree on something.
By bird (687), Sag Harbor on Feb 20, 18 3:50 PM
1 member liked this comment
When a criminal is shot by a police officer the left blames the OP, when an evil psychopath shoots up a school they blame the GUN, rather inconsistent really.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 19, 18 10:36 PM
I got this one:

When a cop (aka, the government) kills somebody we need to know whether it was justified.

When a gun gets into the wrong hands we need to know how it happened, and whether it can be prevented.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 20, 18 8:23 AM
2 members liked this comment
So simple a concept, even a 4 year-old could grasp it, but yet......
By johnj (793), Westhampton on Feb 20, 18 8:59 AM
Good attempt Fore, and on face value, quite plausible.

However, that's not the typical kneejerk emotional reaction. Sure we need to know what happened but the sought after "solution" - ban the gun itself, is never the actual cause of the problem - the mental state of the individual committing the act. Just as in the example of the police officer, it ALWAYS involves the totality of the circumstances and the mindset of the individual.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 20, 18 10:05 AM
Nowhere in any comment for the last several months have I proposed gun control. Up abd down this comment section I've asked for alternative potential responses to mass murder.

Your "typical knee-jerk emotional reaction" is actually shouting "don't touch my guns!" when people say "we need to do SOMETHING."
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 20, 18 10:13 AM
1 member liked this comment
I know this may be hard to comprehend Fore, but it's not always about you or your opinion. You spoke it broad terms, I responded in broad terms.

That "typical knee-jerk emotional reaction" you've turned on its head is you confusing the position of people who embrace their Second Amendment Right. I've done nothing wrong. The gun did nothing wrong. No one is opposed to doing something that makes sense and could prevent similar instances, however, the many should not be punished for the actions ...more
Feb 20, 18 11:10 AM appended by Po Boy
P.S. Regardless of your stated position, I would bet the farm you'd ban guns in a country minute if you could,
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 20, 18 11:10 AM
1 member liked this comment
That's great! We agree that stronger protocols and incentives to properly enforce existing regimes is one step government could take!

That sentence is going in a letter!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 20, 18 11:35 AM
You forgot "sensible."

Surprise, surprise...
Feb 20, 18 11:45 AM appended by Po Boy
And by "sensible" I mean my side of sensible, not your version of "sensible."
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 20, 18 11:45 AM
If the laws are already on the books, are they already sensible?

Are there any particular laws already in place that you find insensible?
Feb 20, 18 1:31 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
An easy one for you to talk about would have been "gun free zones", just saying
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 20, 18 1:31 PM
Yes... No... and not necessarily in that order, but maybe in that order.

At a certain point Fore, I can't take you seriously - usually it's when you start with the sweeping million mile probing questions. Hello point.


By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 20, 18 1:44 PM
That's fine, we've already established I'm not commenting to be taken seriously. I'm just curious about what you think!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 20, 18 1:50 PM
...and yet dismissive of what I think. Quite the conundrum.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 20, 18 2:39 PM
Curious and receptive are different things.
Feb 20, 18 2:40 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Just because I want to know your views doesn't mean I have to agree with them, right?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 20, 18 2:40 PM
As is argumentative vs. curious..and disingenuous vs. genuinely
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 21, 18 10:37 AM
Am I arguing? I think I just ask lots of questions.

Whether you see arguments in them is a measure of whether you've thought about them before, or don't like the answers you've arrived at by yourself.

That some of my comments are more tongue-in-cheek than genuine is a fair criticism.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 21, 18 10:48 AM
So you think without your prompting and questions, these issues go without thought or there is some sense of self loathing that has resulted?

Thank you Fore, for enlightening us all.


By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 21, 18 11:20 AM
I don't know, but that's why I ask them: to expose myself to others' ideas and to expose them to mine. After all, for every person responding there's likely a dozen more just reading.

At least a fraction of them will experience some cognitive dissonance when faced with a view they hadn't considered, and nobody can ever be more convinced of something than when they convince themselves!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 21, 18 11:28 AM
Here's something for them to read.

You say questions, I hear baiting. I have every belief your end game is through incrementalism, slowly eroding gun rights, because at the end of the day, you have shown yourself to be a dyed in the wool Leftist no matter how moderate you'd like us to view your wool.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 21, 18 7:43 PM
I'm pretty openly a leftist, no need for dyed wool.

I've just stopped proposing gun control because I no longer think it will have an effect; there are simply too many guns held by the public for meaningful legislation to stop one from falling into the wrong hands.

A buyback such as Australia's would probably bankrupt us (PDs that run such programs frequently run out of cash themselves), and any forced confiscation would simply result in more bloodshed than is already happening.

Now, ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 21, 18 8:07 PM
"I've just stopped proposing gun control because I no longer think it will have an effect; there are simply too many guns held by the public for meaningful legislation to stop one from falling into the wrong hands."

Interesting that you think age restrictions would have prevented this instance given that statement.

No, you speak with forked tongue on the issue for sure. No self respecting liberal would have the position you do, which makes the dyed in the wool reference appropriate. ...more
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 8:35 AM
I think such an age-limit would have stopped this particular tragedy, but not another tragedy by the same shooter. I was also pretty clear on my negative opinion of the age-limit proposal.

You're right that my lefty friends don't appreciate my jaded view on gun control, but they still get my support at the polling booth!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 22, 18 8:40 AM
I am of the opinion that he would likely have acquired his weapon of choice through other means and the tragedy would have still taken place.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 9:09 AM
That's fine, but you can't "definitively say" that he would have.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 22, 18 9:15 AM
That would be why I used the operative word....opinion.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 9:21 AM
And it's my opinion that all responsible gun owners should prevent unauthorized access to their firearms, but what does that get me?

I'll tell you what the failure to keep arms out of the wrong hands got Nancy Lanza.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 22, 18 9:30 AM
Which brings us full circle. "Should" is much different than "will" and that makes the age-limit solution moot.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 9:36 AM
It's a dumb solution that would have prevented the Parkland shooter from legally obtaining the firearm he used.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 22, 18 9:39 AM
Let's just set the age at 100, and be done with it then.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 10:12 AM
And that's not another dumb solution that would probably stop legally purchased guns from being used in school shootings.
Feb 22, 18 10:30 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
inadvertent "not"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 22, 18 10:30 AM
@ Undocumented Democrat & They call me

Both history and reality are so distorted in your extraordinarily biased perceptions that the world you see is unrecognizable to anyone else. In the minds of you true believers, faith effortlessly annihilates truth. The rest of us use an umbrella when it's raining rather than tell ourselves that the sun is shining.

Meanwhile, in the real world, even Trump sidekick Chris Christie says that The Donald should keep his nose out of law enforcement ...more
By highhatsize (3524), East Quogue on Feb 20, 18 9:03 AM
Will you spend the rest of the year talking to yourself as well ?
By pw herman (925), southampton on Feb 20, 18 9:11 AM
#MMAGA baby!!!
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 20, 18 12:12 PM
1 member liked this comment
@dnice: Before I post a sampling of the robust gun regulations that were once on our books, something you and the other proponents of unfettered gun ownership and use on this list might be interested to know which is that there are NO GUNS ALLOWED IN MAR-A-LAGO.
Comments?

Now, herewith some of the robust laws your inquired about in your post of Feb 20:






America's history of federal and state laws regulating private ownership of firearms ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 20, 18 1:15 PM
The Secret Service is permitted to have guns in Mar-a-Lago.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 20, 18 1:31 PM
But what protection do members have against the big, bad government without theirs? Somebody has to get on this tout suite!
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 20, 18 6:06 PM
Well, guns silly. I think the issue is guns in the wrong hands. In this case, it is indeed guns ensuring safety. At least, at the current time.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 21, 18 10:41 AM
Tyrants takes guns from the population because they want to control the population.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 21, 18 10:49 AM
Poor Po Boy, he doesn't recognize irony.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 21, 18 11:54 AM
But there ARE guns at Mar-a-lago and last I checked, the government is still the good guys - or at least they are supposed to be - and not confiscating guns - yet.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 21, 18 12:19 PM
There are no guns allowed on trump properties except those of security personnel.
Just yesterday, despite Florida being an open-carry state, a driver shuttling press covering trump was dismissed having been found to be carrying.
Donald Trump Is Against 'Gun-Free Zones' But Guns Aren't Allowed on Many of His Properties, Staff Says
By CHRISTOPHER GOODCANDACE SMITH
May 20, 2016, 6:06 PM ET

Donald Trump spoke in favor of gun rights at the National Rifle Association ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 21, 18 12:55 PM
While I doubt the President is deciding which property is a gun free zone and which is not, Donald Trump as a citizen and business owner is permitted to make that determination just as ANY business is entitled to make that designation. But as the article details, that's not what is taking place.

Officially, the article states this "There are “no restrictions on licensed individuals carrying in our hotels of golf clubs,” a Trump Organization official told ABC News." Even as ...more
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 21, 18 1:29 PM
You just won't face truth, will you?
Other than security personnel, no guns are permitted.
That "employment agreement" is exactly what the point is---no guns allowed except for security personnel. This is, remember, an open-carry state. But not for trump on his property. His prerogative, of course. But inherent in that rule is an admittance of the danger of the presence of guns.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 21, 18 1:47 PM
We stareted June with you making the statement that no guns are permitted at Mar-a-lago. Clearly, the Secret Service has guns, and alot of them. Point addressed. Now we're on to no guns permitted on Trump properties, except for security personnel (further refuting your original point), and someone likely violated their employment agreement and was fired, so except for security personnel leaves A) employees out and B) guests in a gray area at best given official statements that There are “no ...more
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 21, 18 7:28 PM
Juney B, I asked which one would have prevented this tragedy?
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 21, 18 11:24 PM
Are you asking which law could have prevented it?

I think the proposed 21 year-old minimum age to purchase a rifle may have stopped this 19 year-old. Mind you, I think it's a dumb proposal, but it could have worked in this particular scenario.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 22, 18 6:29 AM
But the fact is, we don't know if it really would have prevented it in this instance. It highlights the issue that it really isn't the gun itself, but the will of the person carrying out the heinous act. Would he have then used one of his other guns for example, ie. a shot gun, or figured out a way to purchase that type of rifle (easy to do you know), or semi-auto handgun, or used explosives, or vehicle to mow people down? He was a troubled and motivated individual. And of course, it may be illegal ...more
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 8:00 AM
1 member liked this comment
I simply answered the question that was asked ("which one would have prevented THIS tragedy" [emphasis mine]), with a caveat regarding my personal opinion on that particular measure.

If he had used a car, or a bomb, or a plane, it would have been a different tragedy by definition, right?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 22, 18 8:13 AM
I'm of the opinion that we can't definitively say that he wouldn't have procured a rifle by other means if he so desired. Look at the example of Adam Lanza who did NOT have his own rifle but had access to one. The FBI has said Lanza began contemplating the attack as early as March 2011, well over a year prihr. They also found Lanza did not ‘snap,’ but instead engaged in careful, methodical planning and preparation, much like this case I believe.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 8:25 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 8:25 AM
And if he had murdered the same 17 people with an identical rifle that he obtained illegally rather than legally, it would still have been a different tragedy by definition.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 22, 18 8:29 AM
AKA, not preventable.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 8:44 AM
This tragedy could have been prevented. All tragedies ever cannot.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 22, 18 8:50 AM
"And if he had murdered the same 17 people with an identical rifle that he obtained illegally rather than legally" it would still not be preventable.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 9:06 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 9:07 AM
And it'd be a different tragedy, BY DEFINITION because the rifle would not have been obtained legally.

If people are aware of a risk, any tragedy is preventable when those warnings are disseminated and acted upon. For example, in this case, I had a lot of agreement on a comment saying his recorded violent predisposition should have prevented him from buying a gun.

When a nobody is aware of any risk, a tragedy is not preventable (think: Vegas).

Dnice asked a hypothetical ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 22, 18 9:14 AM
....But committed with a gun, nonetheless.

For the record, dnice didn't say, "with his legally purchased rifle." that is your adlib. He asked "which one [law] would have prevented this tragedy?"

The focus in most circles on the evil gun...not the legality of its procurement.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 9:32 AM
I define "this tragedy" narrowly to mean the material circumstances of the Parkland school shooting. I understand if you think whether the gun is obtained legally or illegally is immaterial.

But do we agree that, with the warning signs of tips to authorities, frequent interactions with police and expulsion from school for violent behavior, this should not have been a legal gun purchase?

Or that local police should have been empowered to confiscate such a weapon as is routinely ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 22, 18 9:37 AM
Do we agree, I'll be honest Fore, I'm not 100% sure. My sense of judgement says, yes...BUT....I do think the FBI dropped the ball, and any decision should have been made after an actual interview - and that didn't take place. To add, he was apparently investigated by social services and mental health professionals in 2016 after the Snapchat videos were uncovered — but he avoided hospitalization and was deemed not to be a threat to himself or others.

So all that said, should he have ...more
Feb 22, 18 10:04 AM appended by Po Boy
And to your question, of local police have been empowered to confiscate such a weapon as is routinely done in cases where orders of protection are issued? My answer under the current circumstances given no such determination of mental health risk was made....no. Hate to say that, but on what legal basis could that have been done given lack of foundation?
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 10:04 AM
To add, had he been determined to be a mental health risk by officials in any capacity, it's a no brainer.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 10:13 AM
You raised a REALLY interesting question: at which point should the shooter have been deemed ineligible for a gun purchase, or eligible for gun confiscation?

Here, a suspension from school for violent behavior would cross that line for me because it meets due process requirements, as it is a final administrative decision that can be challenged in a court via an Article 78 proceeding.

The FBI investigation did not rise to that level, and neither do any visits by social services ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 22, 18 10:15 AM
He would have been barred from purchasing or possessing a firearm due to a mental illness and entered into the database under two conditions: if he is involuntarily committed to a mental hospital, or if a court or government body declares him mentally incompetent.

Suspension from school for violent behavior is a definite gray area.



By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 1:51 PM
But perhaps it's one that would be worth covering in the future?

To me, a person who is too violent to be enrolled in public school is a person who should not have access to firearms.

I'm not even talking about a perpetual ban from owning guns, as is done with felons, but perhaps a temporary ban with an expiration date, or a ban that can be overcome through certain actions (such as a certificate of fitness from a mental health professional, for example).
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 22, 18 1:58 PM
Once again, Mueller’s probe exposes wrongdoing during Obama era

Looks like Inspector Clouseau latest indictment of a London lawyer is based on supposed wrongdoing in 2012, Opps during the Obama administration and Hillary Clinton’s time as Secretary of State.
“The lawyer is accused of misleading investigators about the last time he talked with Richard Gates, who was indicted in October with ex-Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort over their consulting work in Ukraine,” ...more
By joe hampton (3092), The Hamptons on Feb 20, 18 5:39 PM
Mueller should just stop this insanity. Everything he is trying to charge Trump with Boomerangs back that we have facts that Hillary did those very things. Its getting embarrassing
By local 84 (319), riverhead on Feb 20, 18 5:42 PM
My god, perhaps we should blame Reagan personally for all the convicted and indicted felons in his administration. No one has broken that record for corruption, yet.

At least Obama kicked the Russians red a**** off American soil. Sanctions continue to sit in limbo. Apparently, red is a good color for the GOP.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 20, 18 9:31 PM
Like I said before I have been to Russia and in a lot of ways it is more like the America I grew up in then what has become of this country.

So yes, I think Russia is a great place on some levels. They are not so up tight and politically correct, like I have stated here before they still know how to laugh and joke, the woman still know how to be woman and are much more attractive to from a mans point of view . Family still means something to them. The cold war is over so lighten up with ...more
By Ditch Bum (464), Water Mill on Feb 20, 18 9:47 PM
"The woman still know how to be a woman" lol

Yeah, man. 1960's America was sweet unless you weren't white, Christian or male.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 20, 18 9:52 PM
He did not say subservient, I am pretty sure he just meant they care about there appearance, and have good hygiene. There is not much thats sexy about a " nastyyyy Woman"
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 20, 18 9:57 PM
"Smart!", indeed.

Russian Cyber Hacks on U.S. Electoral System Far Wider Than Previously Known

By Michael Rile and Jordan Robertson
June 13, 2017, 5:00 AM EDT

~ Attackers said to take measure of voting systems, databases
~ A ‘red phone’ warning to the Kremlin from Obama White House


Russia’s cyberattack on the U.S. electoral system before Donald Trump’s election was far more widespread than has been publicly revealed, including ...more
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 20, 18 9:57 PM
if you bothered to look at the last post on this thread it would seem the state of georgia has found a way to beat the russia hacking or election problem. (if such a problem even existed in the first place )

i suspect you don't like the idea of returning to paper ballots because you only want who you choose to be able to mess around with the results. the people are not stupid and can see right through your bias.
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on Feb 20, 18 10:07 PM
1 member liked this comment
I've resisted up to this point, but do you have ANY post secondary education whatsoever?

OOOOOH, ONE whole [expletive deleted] state returning to paper ballots. I'm sure the former Soviet hackers are shaking in their boots.

Maybe you should come over to our world at ArsTechnica, Scientific American, TechRepublic, and even Popular Science. Perhaps check out companies like Volexity, or even US-CERT.
Feb 20, 18 10:15 PM appended by Mr. Z
Perhaps you'd prefer the days of "hanging chads" when people's votes were not counted?
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 20, 18 10:15 PM
I think its a very smart idea Erin, hopefully all 50 states will return to paper ballots
By joe hampton (3092), The Hamptons on Feb 20, 18 10:20 PM
It seems the Clinton News Netwok and PMSNBC helped Russia by promoting the fake anti trump rallys
Liberal anti-Trump networks offered heavy coverage of Russian-organized anti-Trump rally
One of the revelations in Friday’s indictment handed down by Special Counsel Robert Mueller was that alleged Russian attempts to sow disunity in 2016 included the organization of both pro- and anti-Trump rallies in New York City on the Saturday after Election Day.
A check of their November 12 coverage ...more
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 20, 18 10:30 PM
Or perhaps at the least the 39 that were compromised?

We actually have these things called MAC addresses which are like fingerprints for devices, and things like cyber intrusion specialists. Cyberwarfare has been around for decades. Welcome to the future, lol.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 20, 18 10:37 PM
The Russians only did what America has been doing for decades; it tried to sow foreign discontent to their favor.

But this was not the actual attack on America. No, the true attack on the American people and our constitution, was totally domestic in nature.

That attack came as a coordinated effort from the obama administration, the DNC, the democrat media complex and Hillary Clinton's campaign. At no time in our nation's history has such a wide-ranging criminal endeavor been ...more
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 20, 18 10:47 PM
1 member liked this comment
Yes, TCM. It truly is you against the world.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 21, 18 9:05 AM
Behold tcm's new found ability to use complete sentences, proper punctuation, and paragraphs! Apparently the cut and paste police are off duty today.
Admittedly not up on the latest from the tin foil hat crowd, so could you at least tell us where you found such fevered fantastical fakery, such toxic, out-there crapola?
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 21, 18 12:29 PM
1 member liked this comment
All out of my pen witchiepoo
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 21, 18 2:38 PM
Juney B, you really need to stop playing victim. Cut and paste was not the problem. You posted someone else's words as your own. If you want I can site the post you made and show where you swiped it. Just let me know.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 21, 18 11:17 PM
And I'd hoped someday you'd run out of bull****.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 22, 18 12:33 AM
@DB

Did you just visit the city, or live with gypsies too?
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 22, 18 12:37 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 22, 18 5:44 PM
And if I was willing to spend the time, I could cite (NOT "site") dozens and dozens of unattributed cut and pastes by right wing posters on this thread. So interesting you have NEVER complained about those. Furthermore, you only complained about cutting and pasting.
Now you come up with a whole different charge of plagiarism. Not that you could even spell the word. Is that why?
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 22, 18 7:04 PM
Typo is gonna be your defense Juney B, really? My original post on it speaks for itself as does your swiping of intellectual property.

Double checked for spelling.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 22, 18 7:16 PM
The wicked witch is assumed to be untouchable , just ask any of the liberal Democrat Oarty faithful
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 20, 18 8:10 PM
She'd run circles around you. No wonder you have the need to denigrate her. A real man wouldn't do that, and a secure man wouldn't obsess over her. Time to get a grip and move on. You're boring us to death.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 20, 18 8:48 PM
Thanks for proving my point JuneZ. Additionally, I doubt Hillary could run her prodigious posterior around anyone, just saying.
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 21, 18 12:08 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 22, 18 1:04 AM
Um, yes you dotard.

"Do we really think, and I say this sincerely, do we really think that 17-year-olds on their own are going to plan a nationwide rally?"

~ Jack Kingston

By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 20, 18 9:08 PM
1 member liked this comment
The Gateway Pundit has absolutely no shame. Smearing a 17 year old college bound student journalist is just beyond low.
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 20, 18 9:27 PM
1 member liked this comment
GEORGIA LOOKS TO DROP ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES IN FAVOR OF PAPER BALLOTS


Well Hallelujah its about time they have come to there senses !
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 20, 18 9:54 PM
1 member liked this comment
@ They call me

La-La Land.

Are you trying to make the Guinness World Records for the most lies in one post?

Every word you say is a fabrication, a product solely of your demented imagination.

True believer conspiratorialists are all alike. You invent outlandish defamatory screeds about anyone-who-isn't-one-of-you, which you either make no attempt to authenticate or which you "support" by referral to to preposterous "authorities" who share your delusional thinking. ...more
By highhatsize (3524), East Quogue on Feb 21, 18 8:10 AM
High hat, low brow, everyday, every week, every month, every year.
By pw herman (925), southampton on Feb 21, 18 8:43 AM
1 member liked this comment
HHS: This pay-off to buy silence set up via a fake LLC created specifically with the intention of hiding the transaction also puts him and trump into criminal jeopardy b/c of violation of tax law and/or campaign finance law if funds used were that of donors. As Jonathan Turley put it, it's more often than not that "side issues" bring down cads like this.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 21, 18 12:00 PM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 21, 18 9:40 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Ditch Bum (464), Water Mill on Feb 21, 18 9:44 AM
POLL: TRUMP APPROVAL POPS TO 48%...

*Obama was 45% at same date in presidency [Feb 21, 2010]...

Wednesday, February 21, 2018

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Wednesday shows that 48% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance.
Feb 21, 18 2:42 PM appended by 27dan
RCP Poll Averages President Trump Job Approval Approve 42.1
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 21, 18 2:42 PM
I wonder which poll will be highest tomorrow? I'm sure 27dan will let us know by presenting it as the only number!
Feb 21, 18 2:47 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
I appreciate the update, but next time can you include comparative job disapproval ratings too? Just to paint a full picture.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 21, 18 2:47 PM
Fore, if there is a point woven in there somewhere other than partisanship, can't you provide comparative job disapproval ratings for a full picture? Approval rating are the bellwether measurement of how well a president is accomplishing his job.

It's interesting for all the hoopla, Trump is ahead of Obama at the same period. That's context!




By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 21, 18 7:36 PM
You missed the part where 27dan is cherry-picking his statistics.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 21, 18 7:55 PM
Tenacious if nothing else there, 27, considering the persistent reminders by the sophisticates on this list that the Rasmussen poll is a consistent outlier that relies on a whopping 500 person sample (maybe the same ones), compared to triple the size of the others, and always leans Republican.
Herewith the more realistic polling results:

Trump touts new poll at press conference
TheHill.com

The Rasmussen Reports and the Pew Research Center released wildly different ...more
Feb 21, 18 8:01 PM appended by June Bug
Quinnipiac: "American voters say 57 - 41 percent that Trump is not fit to serve as president. There is a wide gender gap, with men divided 49 - 49 percent on whether Trump is fit. Women say 65 - 33 percent he is not fit." What are men thinking??
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 21, 18 8:01 PM
1 member liked this comment
I don't see cherrypicking....the same poll, looks at the same day of two different presidents....that would be a comparison. Now you're comparing Rasmussen to Pew...

THAT is cherry picking.

Don't get me wrong, I gave up on polls a long time ago. But at a high level daily basis, it is interesting.


By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 21, 18 8:14 PM
That's fine, but if 27dan gets to pick his "one and only" poll then I get to pick mine, right? Quinnipiac all the way!
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 21, 18 8:47 PM
You can pick till your hearts content Fore.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 8:14 AM
@ 27dan & Po Boy

Oh, please, it's not cherypicking, it's LYING - - - as a cursory recourse to the Real Clear Politics website proves:

Obama stood at 47.1% on Feb. 21, 2010, NOT the 45% that 27dan claims - - - and the current average-of-all-polls has The Donald at 41.8% Approval, NOT 42.1.

Even in trivial details, Right-Wingers lie compulsively.
By highhatsize (3524), East Quogue on Feb 21, 18 10:16 PM
1 member liked this comment
Well hat, I'll have to label both yourself and company as LIARS.

Change the focus as you will in mid stream, Rasmussen which 27dan CLEARLY references certainly does have Obama at 45% total approval on February 21, 2010. Seen it with my own two eyes.

Ain't it interesting that Left-Wingers feel the compulsion to LIE about even the simplest of details. What a sad state you all are.

By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 8:13 AM
Which is why an average of all approval and disapproval ratings paints a more complete picture!

But Trump isn't doing so good on that one, so I understand why some folks wouldn't want to talk about it.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 22, 18 8:24 AM
LMMFAO: "Manafort is Ukrainian for 'Blagojevich'"


"Federal investigators are probing whether former Trump campaign chair Paul Manafort promised a Chicago banker a job in the Trump White House in return for $16 million in home loans, two people with direct knowledge of the matter told NBC News.

Manafort received three separate loans in December 2016 and January 2017 from Federal Savings Bank for homes in New York City, Virginia and the Hamptons.

The banker, Stephen ...more
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 22, 18 1:08 AM
@ Po Boy

Lying by omission again, Po Boy?

You ignore 27dan's assertion that Trump's average-of-all-polls approval rating stands at 42.1%. That's a lie. The actual rating is right there on the current page of Real Clear Politics that you can "see with your own two eyes". Care to address that?

Naturally, since 27dan's initial assertion about Obama's 2010 popularity didn't specify a particular poll, I assumed that he was referring to the reliable average-of-all-polls rather ...more
By highhatsize (3524), East Quogue on Feb 22, 18 9:33 AM
1 member liked this comment
So, by this new standard you've set, your expectation is that any fact be presented with ALL other related facts to be valid? And anything short of that, is lying by omission? HAHAHAHA.

How about this my Left-Wing friend. Rather than call someone a liar, simply acknowledge the stated fact is TRUE, but point out the alternate example?

Hmmm, never thought of that one I bet.


By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 9:52 AM
If Dan didn't pick which polls he talks about by finding the most Trump-favorable ones, I'd agree with you.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 22, 18 9:54 AM
This is a new aberration....pick a side? I think not.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 10:09 AM
Italian Town ‘Taken Over’ By Nigerian Migrant Gangs

The former seaside resort town of Castel Volturno north of Naples has been taken over by Nigerian gangs who run drug and prostitution rings.These mislead people were told to expect the egalitarian, unicorn, utopia of diversity.

Instead they created a third world cess pit, riddled with violent crime and cannabalism. After admitting hundreds of thousands of violent miscrants into there country, I fail to see how any ...more
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 22, 18 10:25 AM
1 member liked this comment
Cannabalism (n): the practice of eating cannabis.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 22, 18 11:32 AM
@ Po Boy

Quote:

" Rather than call someone a liar, simply acknowledge the stated fact is TRUE ... '
------------------------------------------

Sorry, Po Boy, can't oblige - - - because - - - it - - - is - - - STILL - - - A - - - LIE.

The Donald's average-of-all-poll's approval rating, which you CAN'T MISS if you go to the current Real Clear Politics Presidential Approval Poll website, WAS NOT 42.1% as 27dan claimed. (It topped 42% in the past but has declined ...more
By highhatsize (3524), East Quogue on Feb 22, 18 11:22 AM
LMAO....I have yet to hear anyone refute the Rasmussen approval number for Obama on February 21, 2010 as 45%. Anyone?

Instead...we're treated to the mother of all bait and switch arguments. This is a classic Liberal debating tactic. Rather than actually debate what was said, bait and switch the topic, so you're no longer debating the original issue, but the rules of the discussion.

It is a fraud and a shining example of why the gun debate will NEVER find common ground, the divide ...more
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 1:43 PM
And you won't hear anyone refute the existence of the number, it's the accuracy that we disagree with.

Taken in context with the rest of polls, it's easy to see why that particular one is promoted by Trump supporters.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 22, 18 1:48 PM
"And you won't hear anyone refute the existence of the number"

Well there you go hat....who is the LIAR?
Feb 22, 18 1:57 PM appended by Po Boy
BTW, RCP has the average at 41.9 as of 2/20. It fluctuates....depending on the date range...well...NO DUH!!!
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 1:57 PM
The number exists. The lie is that it accurately represents the public approval of the president's performance.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 22, 18 2:00 PM
Rasmussen Reports was the closest of all major pollsters in predicting the presidential election’s popular vote, go look how accurate they were for yourself Hat Head check out the final results posted by RealClearPolitics.
By joe hampton (3092), The Hamptons on Feb 22, 18 4:08 PM
Are you really citing the same polling organizations that predicted Hillary to win the Presidential election HH? Brilliant!
By bigfresh (3446), north sea on Feb 22, 18 11:43 AM
1 member liked this comment
Trump Opens Door to National Gun Registry with Proposed Gun Controls

NO ! WAS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH MR PRESIDENT !


Banning public schools would stop 100% of school shootings.
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 22, 18 4:14 PM
National registry ?

ROTFLMAO

Lost my guns in a boating accident over the weekend ! Don't have any to register !!

They will play hell registering existing guns.

Isn't that what Germany did and then Hitler confiscated ?

MOLON LABE

This US vet WILL NOT comply with laws that try to circumvent the 2nd!
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 22, 18 4:19 PM
Must have been a heck of an accident, because mine went overboard with yours.

By Ditch Bum (464), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 4:24 PM
1 member liked this comment
Then you are a disgrace to your country.
By johnj (793), Westhampton on Feb 22, 18 4:25 PM
"Like I said before I have been to Russia and in a lot of ways it is more like the America I grew up in then what has become of this country.

So yes, I think Russia is a great place on some levels....
Family still means something to them. The cold war is over so lighten up with this Russia is evil garbage already."
--Ditch Bum
But, Ditch, no way would you be allowed to own a gun there.
And all their ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 22, 18 6:13 PM
I said its a great place to go on holiday, I did not say I was going to move there. Besides they don't let Radical jihadists into there country so there is less chance you would need to use that AR someday. Also you wrong as usual, there gun law makes allot of sense

According to Russian Law on Weapons, only Russian citizens can own civilian weapons in Russia.
By Ditch Bum (464), Water Mill on Feb 22, 18 7:40 PM
And what did you mean when you said "the woman still know how to be woman"?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 22, 18 8:43 PM
It very much sounded like you regret not living there. What with such loose women--er, woman--and all.
Now are we to understand you're on record favoring very strict gun laws regulating both sale and ownership requirements?
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 22, 18 8:53 PM
Smells like all those "law-abiding gun owners" may not be so law-abiding after all. Kind of like all those "law-abiding" gun owners who have been ignoring federal law when they sell guns on the black market now because...whatever.
By VOS (1065), WHB on Feb 23, 18 9:03 PM
Selling guns on the black market???? HUH? Please do elaborate VOS.

You must be thinking about the Obama Administration selling guns to the cartels....and a Border Patrol Agent losing his life as a result.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 23, 18 9:09 PM
I think VOS is referring to the absence of background check requirements in a majority of states for private firearm transfers.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 23, 18 9:19 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 23, 18 11:51 PM
johnj, why is he a disgrace?
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 23, 18 11:53 PM
1 member liked this comment
Because some members can only comment twice a day and I'm more interested in seeing conversations move along than waiting for the author's answer, particularly when the answer is fairly obvious.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 24, 18 12:52 AM
Is this one of your many customs ???
Feb 24, 18 7:52 AM appended by pw herman
ASSIMILATE !!!!!!
By pw herman (925), southampton on Feb 24, 18 7:52 AM
I'm more assimilated than spaghetti and meatballs :-D
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 24, 18 9:36 AM
1 member liked this comment
Even if they can only post twice a day I think their answers should come from their fingers, not yours. Certainly don't want anyone answering for me.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 24, 18 5:49 PM
Well, this is a public forum and VOS is welcome to correct me.

I'm any event, it's pretty obvious that "black market" gun sales refer to those done without background checks.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 9:05 AM
Amazing to me that you can get inside someone's thoughts and know what they mean.

If you want the laws to change about private sales, that is one thing, but to imply that following the current law makes a sale "black market" is incorrect.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 25, 18 3:41 PM
Ok, let's call them "clandestine sales" then, the people promulgating the problem don't really care what it's called.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 3:48 PM
Why don't we just call them sales? I get it, you are anti gun. Stop dancing around that and embrace it.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 25, 18 10:08 PM
Are you kidding me? This isn't even about hardware bans or age limits, it's a very simple principle: firearm transfers shouldn't happen without a background check or record.

If support for that makes me antigun, opposition makes you a lunatic.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 10:35 PM
Again, you miss the point, probably intentionally. I'm not arguing that private sales aren't an issue that needs to be addressed. I absolutely believe all firearm sales or transfers need to require a background check. My point was your characterization that those following the current laws are somehow involved in illegal activity. Clandestine implies illicit, which it is not. But I forgot, you are off the gun control wagon, at least until you are back on it.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 25, 18 10:49 PM
Clandestine (adj): kept secret or done secretively, especially [but not necessarily] because illicit.

Firearm transfers that happen without record or background check are, by definition, done secretively. Whether the sale itself is illicit is subject to the specific circumstances of each sale, such as whether the recipient is a felon, but the sales themselves are clandestine.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 10:56 PM
Secretly doesn't mean it is illegal. You can dance around it all you want but you are implying that private sales are "black market" which they clearly are not.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 25, 18 11:05 PM
The point remains that within the universe of private sales there exists an undetectable black market under current law.

And that we should probably do something about it.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 11:14 PM
Agreed.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 25, 18 11:17 PM
Meanwhile back at the Mueller Trump mansion, the new Manafort and Gates indictments simply fortify the case that is building against all the bad actors, which may or may not include Trump himself.

The main point is that Mueller is looking under every stone, and casting his nets wide and far.

If Trump says he is not nervous, he is bluffing IMO.

And Mueller will call that bluff, and raise it!

Fasten seat belts.
By PBR (4857), Southampton on Feb 22, 18 5:58 PM
They all risk tax evasion charges if nothing at all else, and money laundering charges against the Clintons isn't far away.
By pw herman (925), southampton on Feb 22, 18 6:14 PM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By PBR (4857), Southampton on Feb 22, 18 5:58 PM
TRUMP HITS 50% APPROVAL

Friday, February 23, 2018

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Friday shows that 50% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance.

BOOM MAGA !
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 23, 18 10:18 AM
Trump Rocks CPAC: ‘We’ve Got Seven Years to Go Folks!’


Trump has the Deep State in panic mode angling for control. They know their time is up.

It's no secret they want to disarm us. Our government always tries to make the gun debate about personal protection when the 2nd exists to protect us from tyranny. Tyrants are never honest about their agendas so they need to orchestrate violence to sell us on being disarmed.
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 23, 18 12:57 PM
I LOVE MY PRESIDENT!
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on Feb 23, 18 1:00 PM
We need to take away the soft targets with a percentage of certified concealed carry permitted teachers.and metal detectors, The democrats want to take away your gun and give you an identification implant so that the government can truly track and control your life! The Founding Fathers placed the Second Amendment in the Constitution to protect against criminals, foreign invaders, and most importantly oppressive government.

Let them try to take away the second. It will start a civil war ...more
By Ditch Bum (464), Water Mill on Feb 23, 18 1:50 PM
I'd prefer employing veterans with deployment experience as school resource officers than arming teachers because we already know what that veteran will do when you put a weapon in their hands and point them at the enemy.

Civilians are more likely to act as Officer Peterson did, or in the worst scenario go postal themselves...imagine a situation where the shooter is locked in a room with 20+ kids?

The rest of your comment is out of a science fiction novel, and not even a good one: ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 23, 18 2:24 PM
"Civilians are more likely to act as Officer Peterson did, or in the worst scenario go postal themselves"

You're entitled to your opinion, but there is nothing to support this sentiment. Armed citizens stop (violent) crime every day.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 23, 18 5:58 PM
I'd trust a combat veteran more than I'd trust a civilian teacher with a firearm in a school.
Feb 24, 18 9:20 PM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Turns out Officer Peterson was a Marine. If we can't expect a Marine to react correctly in a school shooting, I'm at a loss.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 23, 18 9:20 PM
You weren't there Fore, that would explain your loss. I know it's easy to make comment sitting in your living room, but you have no representative basis for context, I'd recommend you refrain from judgement to prevent further lack of comprehension.
Feb 25, 18 8:45 AM appended by Po Boy
But by all means, if you trust it more...I could be off base.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 25, 18 8:45 AM
I'd never be able to go into an active shooter situation and kill a kid. But I didn't sign up for it, either.

Is this an example of what happens when a "good guy with a gun" is just not good enough?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 8:54 AM
"Is this an example of what happens when a "good guy with a gun" is just not good enough?"

If there were some rolling eyes emoji available, it'd be all over that.
Interesting how you used quotes for "good guy with a gun" but not "just not good enough."

Kind of like, "Hey Mrs. Fore, Mr. Fore is a good guy." But is he just not good enough.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 25, 18 7:45 PM
I used quotes around the quote because it's frequently quoted. Why is that interesting? I'll try it your way:

Is this what happens when a "good guy with a gun" is "just not good enough"?

I'm happy to fix it as many times as you need to get you to think about it.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 8:11 PM
Look at you Fore, lookin' out for my thinking. Well God Bless you. Yous jus lest me know hows im posed ta think an eyes much abliged.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 25, 18 8:38 PM
But really, was the school officer a good guy with a gun?

If so, why didn't that work? Just something to think about.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 8:42 PM
But really, remove the emotion. The Supreme Court ruled police do not have a Constitutional obligation to protect.

Asking "why didn't that work" and suggesting that ISN'T being thought about, is, well.... hmmm... none of which changes anything moving forward.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 25, 18 9:11 PM
I'm sure the people who are paid for opinions that actually matter are giving it thought, but I'm asking you why you think it didn't work.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 10:47 PM
Isn't the answer obvious? He wasn't a good guy, just a coward.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 25, 18 10:58 PM
I agree dnice!

The problem is that if you had asked me two weeks ago whether Officer Peterson, a 30 year police veteran and combat-trained marine, was a "good guy with a gun" my answer would have been decidedly different.

How do we fix that?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 11:17 PM
Fix what exactly?
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 25, 18 11:23 PM
How do we ensure the designated "good guy with a gun" is ACTUALLY a good guy with a gun?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 11:24 PM
I don't think we can ensure that. There are no absolutes. I would like to think that that deputy was the exception and not the rule.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 25, 18 11:30 PM
I, too, would like to think that, but the other two officers who never moved from their defensive positions outside don't give me confidence.

In any event, even if we can't guarantee it 100% doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

Perhaps instead of school security should be turned into a more attractive job that attracts better candidates? Rather than folks waiting for retirement?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 11:45 PM
How about better leadership, training and accountability?
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 25, 18 11:50 PM
All positive ideas. Perhaps marine combat training, while useful in its own right, does not prepare officers for school shootings.

From my experience with law enforcement, there are tactical aids to put officers in scenarios that test their reactions. Familiarity with a scenario can develop important muscle memory and reflexes which in turn can save lives.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 11:56 PM
If you like high taxes, more government regulation, open borders, your government spying on your fellow Americans and having the man be the only one with the guns- vote for the 2020 Democrat Candidate for President, Kamala Harris.
By even flow (624), East Hampton on Feb 23, 18 1:00 PM
If you think your pathetic "arsenal" is going to stop the US gov't from taking whatever they want from you, then you're even more naïve than your comments make you appear to be. But go ahead and continue believing that you are "free". It's cute.
By johnj (793), Westhampton on Feb 23, 18 1:57 PM
Molon labe!

It would create defiance like nothing this country has ever seen, fracturing the military, police, government, the populace. This country would crumble as the government resorted to increasingly more aggressive means - committing the acts we've seen throughout world history. And the defiance would grow as a result.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 23, 18 6:03 PM
Ooooh, we're so worried over your laughable tough guy responses to your laughable imagined threats.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 24, 18 1:49 PM
I always found it strange that folks are scared of having to fight some of the most ardent 2nd amendment supporters (servicemembers) over their 2nd amendment rights.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 24, 18 1:59 PM
Juney B, who is we?
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 24, 18 5:46 PM
"fight some of the most ardent 2nd amendment supporters (servicemembers)"

That's a lofty assumption Fore. You assume these service members would abandon their oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States from enemies, both foreign and domestic. You can bet many would see this as an attack by the government ON the Constitution.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 25, 18 8:07 AM
You're kind of making my point for me: I don't believe they would follow unconstitutional orders because people in the military tend to be the BIGGEST supporters of the 2nd amendment.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 9:03 AM
Fore, forgive me if your beliefs don't comfort me. History is full of examples of tyranny and leaders who have tried to disarm a populace. Do it really think it will happen? No but I'm not foolish enough to trust in their intentions.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 25, 18 3:34 PM
Which goes to my second point: if somehow the military all gets on the same page to subjugate the general population, they win.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 3:46 PM
So if the military wouldn't follow unconstitutional orders, aka, gun confiscation...chalk one up for the Patriots.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 25, 18 7:24 PM
I don't think so Fore.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 25, 18 10:05 PM
Well, in all-out war between the military and general population my money isn't on us.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 10:57 PM
Do you own a firearm Fore?
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 26, 18 8:44 AM
1 member liked this comment
Mossberg 500, though I haven't ran shells through it in a long time. I should probably clean it, now that you remind me...
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 26, 18 8:53 AM
Gates guilty plea just announced.

Kelly to yank Kushner's security clearance?

The house of cards is getting precarious . . .

Good idea to arm teachers, right? Now the schools can be a new War Zone, justifying the deployment of armed federal agents to keep the peace.

Yee Ha!

Back to the Wild West with ol' buckaroo-in-chief . . .

You can't make this stuff up!
By PBR (4857), Southampton on Feb 23, 18 2:51 PM
Followed by more charges against Manafort.

The screws tighten . . .

Just wait for the Papadopoulos/Flynn/Manafort/Gates squealing to begin, er, to be made public!

Have a good weekend.
By PBR (4857), Southampton on Feb 23, 18 9:18 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Ditch Bum (464), Water Mill on Feb 23, 18 11:25 PM
TRUMP HITS 50% APPROVAL

Friday, February 23, 2018

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Friday shows that 50% of Likely U.S. Voters approve ...more of President Trump’s job performance.

BOOM MAGA ! By 27dan YES "Have a good weekend"
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 24, 18 12:15 PM
@ Po Boy

Quote:

"[Y]ou've confirmed what was already known, that you don't have a modicum of humility inside that large Left-Wing heed.
-------------------------

By "humility" (based on your responses) I can only assume that you mean, "The habit of permitting lies and misdirections pass without comment".

No, Po Boy, I am no more humble than you are rational. In the past, before your repeated dialectical defeats caused you to abjure reason and to adopt ...more
By highhatsize (3524), East Quogue on Feb 24, 18 8:52 AM
We already know Kushner was caught trying to establish a back channel to the Russians, with the Russians, outside of the reach of our intelligence agencies. Ponder that (and "no collusion") for a second. Ask yourself where his allegiances lie. Ask yourself how this was not for personal gain. Ask yourself why he has lied so many times seeking clearance. And such a significant obstacle to it that the second in command at Justice personally went to the POTUS about it. As yourself what that ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 24, 18 12:25 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Ditch Bum (464), Water Mill on Feb 24, 18 12:29 PM
1 member liked this comment
"To reiterate, 27dan (and YOU, by your support of his prevarication) lied in falsely stating Trump's current approval rating and in misrepresenting Obama's historical approval rating."

Pants on fire!!! You'd get more than five Pinocchio's hat, if they offered more. Despicable!

By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 25, 18 8:02 AM
1 member liked this comment
Ditch Bum just made the comment of the year !!!!!!
By pw herman (925), southampton on Feb 25, 18 8:12 AM
The rest of us are content to see the wheels of justice grind on, happily contemplating The Donald's return to private life. It's a bittersweet thought since Pence will be so much more competently pernicious. Nevertheless, there is a visceral satisfaction By highhatsize (3351), East Quogue on Jan 6, 18 8:09 AM

TRUMP HITS 50% APPROVAL

Friday, February 23, 2018

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Friday shows that 50% of Likely U.S. Voters approve ...more
By They call me (2329), southampton on Feb 24, 18 12:13 PM
It's comments by people like john that Prove why the 2nd Amendment necessary !

"If you think your pathetic "arsenal" is going to stop the US gov't from taking whatever they want from you, then you're even more naïve than your comments make you appear to be. But go ahead and continue believing that you are "free". It's cute."
By johnj (740),

Thank you John... MEGA
By joe hampton (3092), The Hamptons on Feb 24, 18 12:21 PM
1 member liked this comment
Hey joe, sorry to inform you, but your little reign of terror will soo be coming to an end. And then you'll just have to be content with whatever shortcomings you were genetically predisposed to....
I have a coupla' questions for you: Is it the troops you support that you'll happily mow down if they come for your guns? Think your little tommy gun has a chance against a drone or two?
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 24, 18 12:34 PM
But John has a point. If you're really worried about having to go to war against the US government, what makes you think your 30 round magazine will make the difference against drones, tanks, and planes?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 24, 18 12:44 PM
1) You underestimate the armament that is legally possessed.
2) You underestimate the will and know how of the People
3) 30 Round magazines x millions upon millions of rounds are a formidable force.
4) The military/police/government would itself be fractured
5) Martyrs would be created as more lives were lost than would have been saved.
6) The government would have it's hands full with general unrest and looting.
6) Freedom isn't free.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 25, 18 8:40 AM
Aside from the belief that you can overthrow the government with civilian arms, all of the above are reasons why it's dumb to believe our government is coming to confiscate our guns.

And your second 6th point is particularly poignant: dead kids are the price of freedom.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 9:00 AM
Let's be clear Fore this is NOT a prediction that the government is coming to confiscate guns, but a prediction of what would occur if it did.

Define "civilian arms" because there is a lot of very bit sh*t out there..all legal.

The second sixth point is the price that would be paid IF government confiscation would ever occurr.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 25, 18 7:18 PM
How many nukes do you think are in civilian hands?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 8:25 PM
Ahhh...

The questions.... aka..."curiosity"...

Nothing of substance to add.... so, the questions...
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 25, 18 8:29 PM
Hey man, if you don't want to engage that's fine, I'm just saying it's dumb to believe the government is going to come confiscate firearms because the people charged with the responsibility would never follow through, and if the military somehow did get on the same page to subjugate the population, then they win because nukes.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 8:33 PM
Oh good, a statement...a thought.

Reiterating my earlier..."Let's be clear"...no one is saying "the government is going to come confiscate firearms" (your words multiple times now). We've been talking about what would likely occur IF they did. So hypothetically speaking following your thought...to nukes (rolling of eyes) ... that's a whole lot of who knows what to get there.... but to your point?...you don't know ants from Adam that the military would control nukes when complete chaos ...more
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 25, 18 8:51 PM
You make fun of my reference to nukes, but I'm not the one worried about having to overthrow the government.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 9:20 PM
Once again Fore, you're the one perpetuating that possibility. Everything thus far on my end has been hypothetical and what if. No where was sentiment provided.... of "worry."
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 25, 18 9:55 PM
Fore

"And your second 6th point is particularly poignant: dead kids are the price of freedom."

That is about as wrong an accusation as you can make. What is the matter with you?
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 25, 18 9:56 PM
I'll go back to the original point: it's logical to not be worried about having to overthrow a tyrannical government because that's a dumb justification for gun ownership.

Before you start calling me anti-gun again, the only justification you need for gun ownership in the US is "I want to have a gun."
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 11:23 PM
1 member liked this comment
"Overthrow a tyrannical government" ... I think not. Defend yourself from one...is absolutely a justification.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 26, 18 8:41 AM
Same difference, they're both dumb justifications. If "government" aka the military tries to take your freedoms, they'll succeed or kill you trying.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 26, 18 9:39 AM
While correct at the onset, I see an entirely different outcome resulting, one that involves government turning on itself which would then turn the tide. I don't see millions being exterminated, at least while we have a 2nd amendment and I don't seen police and/or military blindly doing so without question and reservation.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 26, 18 10:10 AM
Which brings us back to the first point about how it would never happen because the military wouldn't forcefully confiscate firearms from their friends and neighbors...
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 26, 18 10:17 AM
That is your opinion.

I am of the opinion that some would follow their duty, while some would see it as unconscionable. So, the some that would follow their sense of duty, would in fact carry out that order.
Feb 26, 18 10:43 AM appended by Po Boy
To add, when injury and death began to occur on both sides, the number who would see it as unconscionable would grow.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 26, 18 10:43 AM
I think that's a widely shared opinion, at least held here by 27dan and I.

Anyway, you can foresee this risk but the generals in charge wouldn't?

Do you realize we teach our service members to disobey illegal orders?

It's not their "duty" to carry out orders, but to actively decide whether those orders should or should not be followed in the context of their preeminent duty to defend the constitution.

Mass arrests of politicians would occur before a civilian had ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 26, 18 10:56 AM
Who said it would be an illegal order? A government sanctioned order certainly would be considered a "legal" order, of course it would be carried out by most. Some would not. Some would find it difficult after people got hurt.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 26, 18 11:21 AM
So now "most" would carry out an order to forcefully confiscate guns from their friends and neighbors?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 26, 18 11:24 AM
You're seriously asking me to hypothetically quantify a hypothetical number of the number of military and/or police would hypothetically carry out the hypothetical order to confiscate guns?
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 26, 18 11:43 AM
I'm just trying to figure out how you coalesce the belief that such an event is not likely to happen and the belief that most of the military would get on-board if it did.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 26, 18 11:59 AM
You misunderstand...I don't have any idea whether a confiscation even is or isn't likely... that is up to the political winds. Similarly, I have no idea whether or not the military would be on board if it did. All I know is that people would be conflicted and that would influence what transpired.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 26, 18 1:13 PM
See, you say here that you "have no idea whether or not the military would be on board" but clearly state "of course it would be carried out by most" just two comments up.

It seems like you speculate when it suits you and defer when it doesn't. No judgement, just an observation.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 26, 18 1:21 PM
Sure, in response to the incessant rambling of the assumed legality of confiscation and how the military would respond. You stated it would be an illegal order ("Do you realize we teach our service members to disobey illegal orders?") and when I say "military", I'm referring to the individual who wears the uniform who would have to decide whether to carry out the act, knowing full well, it could just as easily be his/her family.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 26, 18 1:46 PM
1 member liked this comment
WORST RATED OLYMPICS EVER NBC $12 BILLION BOONDOGGLE
WORST RATED SUPER BOWL EVER
THE 2018 GRAMMYS HAD THE LOWEST RATINGS IN THE AWARD'S HISTORY

ALL FACTS.

GUESS EVERY ONES WATCHING SEAN HANNITY !
By Undocumented Democrat (1664), southampton on Feb 24, 18 12:40 PM
1 member liked this comment
No need to yell, we're right here.

Also, I think you mean worst-rated superbowl in eight years.

It's probably that boycott from Kaepernick supporters.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 24, 18 12:48 PM
If you want to rent a car you have to be twenty five. Why, because it is statistically proven that younger people are too inexperienced and probably less responsible to be a good risk for them to rent a car to you. But a teenager buying an AR-15, yea that works. If you think a teenager should be able to buy an AR-15, Zeldin is your guy. Anything short of hand grenades, machine guns, and nuclear weapons is what he endorses. Just remember that when you send your child to school, you supported someone ...more
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 24, 18 12:41 PM
1 member liked this comment
Like rats to rotten cheese
By Undocumented Democrat (1664), southampton on Feb 24, 18 12:46 PM
Some grandiose John Wayne fiction that you are going to sit on Little Round top, with your brown bess and dispel all rebel invaders. One shell and they put your remains in a chum bucket, just what's happening in Syria now.
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 24, 18 12:46 PM
Just think, Putin supported and meddled in the election because the guy they wanted most to win, knowing he would do the most damage to America.That guy is what they call in Russia, the useful idiot, your own orange cheetoh, the most dangerous traitor since John Wilkes Booth.
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 24, 18 12:50 PM
Stop with your "Putin meddling fantasy already " Russia has now been proven to have had little to no effect on the election. On the other hand, the people can see what effect the DNC and the sore loser media have had.

" just what's happening in Syria now. " ? So the men and women who are trying to hold up the US constitution and clean up the deep state swamp corruption are akin to Syrians in your mind ?

"If you think a teenager should be able to buy an AR-15, Zeldin is your guy." ...more
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 24, 18 1:25 PM
Obviously service members aren't going to shoot their friends and neighbors, I'm glad the guy who's worried about having to go to war against the government realizes that.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 24, 18 1:35 PM
Of course we relize, We are Oath Keepers
Feb 24, 18 2:21 PM appended by 27dan
III NOT ON OUR WATCH
By 27dan (2327), Shinnecock Hills on Feb 24, 18 2:21 PM
So if it's not the military taking your arms by force, who exactly are you afraid of?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 24, 18 3:02 PM
I cant speak for Dan... but, I don't think anyone is afraid of the current administration.

It was the last administration and the "kind" of people who supported such a government expansion that we were worried about.

If your next question is what was wrong with the last administration ? Then you are part of the problem.

MAGA
By joe hampton (3092), The Hamptons on Feb 24, 18 4:01 PM
Forget who's in the white house, I'm trying to stay focused on the mechanics of the fear of gun confiscation: if you don't believe our own men and women in uniform will forcefully take our firearms, then what are you afraid of?

Those who fear government forget that our government is us.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 24, 18 4:07 PM
forget who is in the white house ? is imo a dumb statement .

my brother is in the military and says its commenly discused that he and his fellow troops would do the right thing if ever given orders to turn on the people.

he says it would only take a couple of hours before the people who gave such orders would regret giving them and the fact that the public is armed is the only thing stopping some people in the government (not the military) from trying to rip the constitution ...more
Feb 24, 18 4:24 PM appended by Erin 27 E
hey guys ? sorry , what does molon labe mean ?
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on Feb 24, 18 4:24 PM
Yes, OBVIOUSLY. So why is everyone afraid of gun confiscation if we all agree that the very people charged with the duty would first follow the oath they took to defend the constitution?

Talking about who's president is dumb for 2 reasons:

1. Congress makes the laws, and

2. after a change of heart on age limits and bump stock bans, plus receiving support from congressional leadership, Trump has a far greater chance of signing a gun control bill than Barrack Obama ever ...more
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 24, 18 4:32 PM
why is everyone afraid of gun confiscation if we all agree that the very people charged with the duty would first follow the oath they took to defend the constitution?

very simple...... insurance !

yes it is true our soldiers will not turn on the public in normal situations, but they may need a few days to sort things out in the own minds. like if told a lie like there is a plague and not to let anyone in or out of areas, while they have special opts confiscate the guns. we as ...more
By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on Feb 24, 18 4:45 PM
I'm not even proposing gun control, I'm just calling the "to fight a tyrannical government" rationale dumb for two reasons:

1. The people asked to carry out the order would never do it, and if they did

2. They win because they have drones, tanks, and planes.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 24, 18 4:48 PM
Just like the drones, tanks and planes won in Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.?
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 24, 18 6:02 PM
4,000+ servicemembers died, but does anyone even know what the body count was on the Afghani or Iraqi side, either combatant or civilian?

We may not have won either of those wars, but Iraq and Afghanistan definitely lost.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 24, 18 6:16 PM
If an act of confiscation ever came, I wonder if the government would actually risk the loss of countless thousands of iives, to save the 250 or so killed by targeted rifles.

"John has a point. If you're really worried about having to go to war against the US government, what makes you think your 30 round magazine will make the difference against drones, tanks, and planes?"

If you think the populace is (legally) armed with only 30 round magazines, you simply have your head in ...more
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 25, 18 8:20 AM
You can wonder if you want but all reasonable minds agree that the folks charged with carrying out confiscation would never do it.

And if they did, civilians have nothing on par with nuclear weapons. We lose.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 8:57 AM
They meddled and won their useful idiot. They got their guy who will damage America. Worst traitor since John Wilkes Booth.
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 25, 18 9:42 AM
Sure, but it looks like he'll come a lot closer to signing a gun control bill than Obama ever did. I'm admittedly impressed by that.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 9:45 AM
@Erin 27E
Are you not embarrassed to fall for such ridiculous scenarios conjured up by those whose self-interest depends on inculcating the feeble-minded with such fear-filled idiocy?
You "scholars" and your "issues" with the Constitution---The 14th Amendment "....shall any State deprive any person of life...." How dense are you not to realize that the word "baby" is nowhere in the amendment, that the key word is "person", and that, unless the mother's life is endangered, ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 25, 18 1:48 PM
What happens when those who should actually be ignored are engaged. To be arguing you need guns to protect against the feds and confiscation as a possibility is beyond ridiculous. If owning a gun was an effective means of self-defense, your insurance rates would go down when you bought one. But they go up, because actuaries have proven that you’re far, far more likely to shoot yourself or a family member than you are to shoot someone attacking you.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 25, 18 2:00 PM
No Juney, insurance is an industry that looks for ways to charge more. Talk about naive. Btw, my insurance never went up when I purchased a firearm nor did I shoot myself or a family member. I must just be lucky.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 25, 18 3:28 PM
Then your insurance company doesn't know you're a pistol packin'-mama whose gun ownership puts your loved ones five times more susceptible to being shot than in households without a firearm.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 25, 18 6:49 PM
First of all, I'm not a "mama". Secondly, the insurance knows as I listed them to be covered for loss. My loved ones don't live in the same state of fear of firearms that you do. But that is probably because they are rational.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 25, 18 10:02 PM
So you have coverage on your firearms for free? Interesting. Thought you said insurance companies look for ways to increase costs. Not one in your case?
I sure hope those loved ones of yours stay safe, but no guarantees for anyone in this life, and far fewer when there's a gun in the house. Unfortunately, rationality has nothing to do with safety.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 26, 18 1:05 PM
If you have an irrational fear of firearms then I agree that you should not own one. Not everyone should own one, but their right to own one is protected. I have always, since day 1 of ownership, had a very healthy respect for what a firearm could do and what the consequences of lax or complacent ownership could result in. If you follow the 10 rules of gun ownership (there are really 4 that are the most important), accidents don't happen. It is reckless ownership that gives the majority of owners ...more
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 27, 18 11:07 AM
1. Never put your finger on the trigger unless you intend to shoot
2. Never point a gun at something you don't want to destroy
3. Treat every gun as if it is loaded, even when it isn't
4. Know what you're aiming at, and what's behind it

How'd I do?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 27, 18 11:14 AM
Perfecto!
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 27, 18 2:32 PM
1 member liked this comment
WATCH: THESE INFOWARS VIDEOS WERE BANNED BY YOUTUBE
Share the videos YouTube doesn’t want you to see!
Infowars .com - FEBRUARY 24, 2018 1694 Comments

Just the fact that Infowars allows comments on their site and CNN doesn't shows you who is on the side of free speech.

UPDATE: Since the Drudge Report linked to this story yesterday, we have received over 4 million views for the videos below on our own servers that were censored by YouTube.

CNN and other ...more
By Ditch Bum (464), Water Mill on Feb 24, 18 4:10 PM
Nah.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 24, 18 4:11 PM
Youtube most certainly is banning videos - on MANY topics. These aren't offensive but simply politically inconvenient.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 25, 18 8:25 AM
1 member liked this comment
No, I mean I'm not interested in seeing conspiracy theories about crisis actors or whatever other trash info wars is peddling today.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 8:55 AM
Worried about students being coached on their first amendment rights against those politicians being paid to uphold second amendment rights. Interesting
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 25, 18 9:39 AM
1 member liked this comment
stop using this tragedy for your own politics. these children are gone and you just want to polorize this issue. this is not about gun control or the second amendment. it should be about making our schools safer ! we must do something now that we can all agree on, like more security so our children can be safe when they leave in the morning.

By Erin 27 E (1025), hampton bays on Feb 25, 18 2:35 PM
1 member liked this comment
Oh, hon, did you not (ridiculously) bring up the 14th amendment "for your own politics"?
"polorize"? Shows what we are dealing with. In their parlance, the moronized, I suppose.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 25, 18 2:53 PM
1 member liked this comment
MF, politicians are paid to uphold all constitutional rights, not just the ones you agree with.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 25, 18 3:24 PM
1 member liked this comment
Juney B, why criticize grammar or typos. That all you got?
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 25, 18 3:30 PM
All you "got"?
If you find such illiteracy acceptable or unworthy of mockery, how about posting a defense instead of challenging anyone who finds it appalling?
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 25, 18 4:12 PM
1 member liked this comment
Oh, and Erin, Hon, the hell it's not "about gun control or the second amendment".
In the period between 1994 and 2004 when assault weapons were banned from being sold in the US (and no existing assault weapons were rounded up), the number of deaths from mass shootings declined by 43% from the 19-year period prior.
In Australia, before the ban on assault weapon after 35 people were killed in 1996, there were 13 mass murders in 18 years. Since the now 22 year-ban, ZERO.
...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 25, 18 4:27 PM
We have been through this countless times before good lord... The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed... so Erin is correct... Its not about the 2nd A. its about eliminating soft targets.
By joe hampton (3092), The Hamptons on Feb 25, 18 7:25 PM
The "right of the people to keep and bear arms..." as part of a well-regulated militia. And nothing in the amendment guarantees the right to own military-grade weaponry, or supersedes the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
I'm going to go out on a limb and surmise your prescription for "eliminating soft (school) targets" is to put more guns in them. Exactly the prescription for "softening" them even further.
A school in Indiana deemed "the safest" in the ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 25, 18 8:20 PM
But SCOTUS did recognize an individual right to bear arms as a private citizen, though I forget the name of the recent case on it.

Also, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is (I believe) John Locke, not the founding fathers.

Brilliant thinker on the social contract and purpose of government, just a little irrelevant to the discussion.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 8:23 PM
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
---Thomas Jefferson, The Declaration of Independence.

I hold the right to life is relevant to the discussion when the discussion is about the right to bear a firearm that could obliterate that life.

Uh, the SC case in question is DC v. Heller, ...more
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 25, 18 9:51 PM
Ah Juney, finally "citing" a source huh?
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 25, 18 9:58 PM
Juney B, the only thing I find worthy of mockery are your posts. I know you like to think you are smart but you really have little original thought. Amusing is a good word.

It is a rather lame debate tactic to point out grammar errors on the internet. In a study in 2016 scientists found that people who constantly get bothered by grammatical errors online have "less agreeable" personalities than those who just let them slide. They also mentioned that more research is necessary to confirm ...more
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 25, 18 10:20 PM
Sorry June, I got my philosophers mixed up, John Locke is the one who coined "life, liberty and property" (property being a lot more useful than "pursuit of happiness, imho) and THAT phrase DID actually make it into the writings of the First Continental Congress, and eventually into the Constitution itself, if I remember correction.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 25, 18 11:01 PM
Typos are one thing. A blatant lack of structure and composition are another. The latter tends show one to be lacking...
By Mr. Z (10085), North Sea on Feb 25, 18 11:30 PM
Juney B, I don't know where you are getting your information on the AWB of 1994. When that law was passed it was mandated that a study of its effectiveness be done. The Justice department found and reported that it had no effect on crime rates. The science is conclusive.
By dnice (2322), Hampton Bays on Feb 26, 18 12:07 AM
I think you're cherry picking statistics by focusing on "crime rates" when the concern is mass shootings.

There were less mass shootings while the AWB was in effect and in those cases, there were less deaths.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 26, 18 12:13 AM
1 member liked this comment
And for those that are "concerned", it is a 0.00000143% chance of getting killed in a mass shooting. The Academic Librarian who developed that stat refers to it as "so unlikely that we won’t bother to worry about it"... it's literally a one in a million chance.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 26, 18 8:35 AM
As is dying in a terrorist attack, yet I don't mind getting my socks dirty every time I'm at the airport because that guy tried to shoe-bomb a plane that one time.

Regardless, it's enlightening to learn that you are not concerned.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 26, 18 8:56 AM
Why are they being paid?
By Mets fan (1124), Southampton on Feb 26, 18 9:27 AM
You're doing it again Fore. Speaking for me. If you want to be enlightened, read my words, not speak them for me. I'm personally concerned of a mass shooting, just as I am concerned about being the victim of ANY crime, but that's just me, so I take the necessary precautions and have it engrained in my mindset.

BTW, .000006% of guns owners are mass shooters each year. fewer than 2% of all homicides are committed each year using rifles and when mass shootings are correct for its population ...more
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 26, 18 11:15 AM
So if I understand correctly, you think the drop in mass shootings and the drop in victims per mass shooting were just following population trends?
Feb 26, 18 11:23 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Also, when you put "concerned" in quotes it sounds patronizing as if you believe the concern is unfounded.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 26, 18 11:23 AM
"Concern" was your word of choice...""crime rates" when the concern is mass shootings." That's your concern. Arguably, mass shootings in particular occur much less frequently than general crime.

What I'm saying is the size of the population is needed to give the stats any meaning and context. It's too easy to simply say...more this more that as politicians tend to do.
Feb 26, 18 11:34 AM appended by Po Boy
When you minimize crimes statistics and focus on mass shootings its patronizing as if you believe the concern of crime (to include murder) is less egregious to when a rifle was used.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 26, 18 11:34 AM
Is it just MY concern?

Per-capita numbers are indeed more important, but since the US population didn't drop, but in fact grew, between 1994 and 2004 we can easily conclude that not only did mass shootings and quantity of deaths per mass shooting drop during the AWB, but their per-capita drops happened at a higher rate than the real numbers indicate as population grew.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 26, 18 11:40 AM
...or, since population increased, the per-capita rate of mass shootings did not correspondingly increase which makes the actual number of events ->statistically<- insignificant.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 26, 18 11:51 AM
You're ignoring that the per-capita numbers demonstrably DECREASED.
Feb 26, 18 11:55 AM appended by Fore1gnBornHBgrown
Also, as to my patronizing statement, it is indeed true that I "believe the concern of crime (to include murder) is less egregious to when [mass casualties occur]"
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 26, 18 11:55 AM
That's exactly my point. The per-capita number decreased = the fact that there is a higher number of mass shootings, while no less disturbing, is irrelevant.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 26, 18 1:09 PM
There was NOT a higher number of mass shootings during the AWB. The yearly incidence was higher before AND after the AWB. That's why we know the per-capita number decreased without even looking at the data.

Did the per-capita number continue to decrease after the AWB ended? Not my statement, so not my homework.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 26, 18 1:45 PM
Stickler? Oh, yeah. Love me some standards. It's what made America great!!!
Better than having a gun fetish.
By June Bug (2021), SOUTHAMPTON on Feb 26, 18 5:20 PM
"There was NOT a higher number of mass shootings during the AWB. The yearly incidence was higher before AND after the AWB. That's why we know the per-capita number decreased without even looking at the data."

But the population also increased...this as the denominator causes a normalization in the result regardless of whether the numerator increased.
Feb 27, 18 8:25 AM appended by Po Boy
This would in fact cause the per-capita mass shooting rate to drop.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 27, 18 8:25 AM
So you're saying that the drop in the per-capita number is solely due to the rise of population despite the evidence of raw numbers being higher before AND after the AWB?

Do you have any evidence for that?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 27, 18 8:35 AM
That is indeed my argument. It's a statistical correlation. As far as evidence on the ground, just as you'd likely be hard pressed to support your argument...actual numbers, no, can't locate that. BUT, it's factual on its premise and highlights that it is flawed to use the number of singular event,s as horrible as they may be, to highlight a problem as politicians do.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 27, 18 9:55 AM
My only point is that there were more mass shootings before and after the AWB than during it.

If you think population has something to do with it, you're welcome to support it.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 27, 18 10:02 AM
And you're welcome to refute it. In 1994 there were 263 million people in the US. In 2018, 327 million. Considering society as a whole is very different place in 1994 vs. 2018, aside, the fact that mass shootings have increased, it's interesting to note, that there has been an approximately 50% decrease in firearm homicides in the nation overall since 1993 and of the top 20 mass shootings, 8 used only handguns. (source wiki).
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 27, 18 10:30 AM
I'm still not seeing the per-capita numbers that you support. Also, the world being a "very different place" 24 years ago is not data.

Anyway, your statistic on the number of mass shootings that used exclusively handguns is instructive. Does that mean that 60% of mass shootings since 1994 used a semi-auto long gun?

Can you specify which wiki page that came from? I'm willing to wager that the incidents with the highest body counts were not perpetrated with just a handgun.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 27, 18 10:36 AM
While not data, the world today being a "very different place" 24 years ago, sure is an input that influences the data. Not considering that is the first pitfall to identifying the problem(s).

Mass shooting in the United States - wiki. Handguns only is #3. No, it does not mean 60%, some were mixed - handgun/rifle/shotgun.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 27, 18 11:28 AM
But what is it about the world being different that we want to blame, and is there any data to support that blame?

Thanks for the reference! According to that list:

Of the incidents with the most deaths, only one of the top five didn't use a semi-auto rifle and only three of the top ten didn't use a semi-auto rifle (of those three, one used a long-barrel uzi [which is sub-machine gun, right? That incident was in 1984 but can you buy those today?]).
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 27, 18 11:38 AM
I get the fascination with data, but Oy, some things aren't quantifiable. But here's an interesting one, "Missing fathers and America's broken boys - the vast majority of mass shooters come from broken homes" By Suzanne Venker | Fox News.

I've provided multiple times now, miscellaneous societal influences to which you've poo poo'ed each time. No mas, comprende? BTW, you lost the wager - can't deny #3. It's proof that those with the intent to do mass harm...WILL find a way. No one ...more
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 27, 18 12:00 PM
So is there any role government can play in reducing the incidence of broken homes, or is it just something external we can blame while doing nothing to improve it?

Do those societal factors demonstrably influence on gun violence? You mentioned violent media, but I'm fairly sure that one has been debunked.

Also, you can view the list that way, but the fact remains that using exclusively handguns is an outlier in terms of mass shootings.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 27, 18 12:25 PM
You mean the government that failed miserably in Parkland?

We didn't get here overnight, and short of filling gaps here and there, the real problem will take years to address, IF it can be addressed at all. No one wants to take responsibility for their shortcomings and failures, it's simpler and less painful to egos and sense of entitlement and self worth to blame guns, the NRA... and not the evil within the person.
By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 27, 18 8:37 PM
The convenient thing about blaming personal responsibility is that it allows people to wash their hands of the issue and cast blame on individuals rather than the circumstances surrounding the tragedy which made it possible.

If it's a police problem, let's fix it. If it's mental health, let's do better. If it's parenting, let's give families in need our support.
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 28, 18 6:30 AM
The people are part of the circumstances and the issues that made the tragedy possible.

It could have been any one of a number of tools. In 1927, it was a bomb.


By Po Boy (1632), Water Mill on Feb 28, 18 8:04 AM
And isn't strange how you can't buy dynamite at the corner store anymore?
By Fore1gnBornHBgrown (2724), HAMPTON BAYS on Feb 28, 18 8:28 AM
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