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Jan 9, 2017 12:33 PMPublication: The Southampton Press

Dr. Gobler Says Luxury Golf Course Resort Would Leave Larger Nitrogen Footprint Than Subdivision

Dr. Chris Gobler speaks about the science in the draft environmental impact statement for The Hills. AMANDA BERNOCCO
Jan 12, 2017 11:55 AM

Dr. Chris Gobler, a marine science professor at Stony Brook-Southampton and arguably one of the region’s most respected water quality experts, shared for the first time this week that he thinks that a luxury golf course resort community proposed in East Quogue would add more nitrogen to the environment than if the developer was required to adhere to the site’s current zoning.

Dr. Gobler did not say that he opposes the project being pitched by the Discovery Land Company of Arizona, an 118-residential unit complex that would also feature an 18-hole golf course that would require Southampton Town Board approval of special zoning called a planned development district, or PDD. But he made it clear that, as currently pitched, the development would contribute more nitrogen to already compromised groundwater in the hamlet.

“This project will deliver more nitrogen to our coastal waters than it does presently, and more than it would compared to an as-of-right [alternative],” Dr. Gobler said as he addressed the Town Board on Tuesday night at the third of four public hearings scheduled to discuss the draft environmental impact statement for the project, called “The Hills at Southampton.”

The East Quogue resident was the first person to walk up to the podium at Tuesday’s hearing, which was held, like the previous two, inside the East Quogue Elementary School, though this one attracted only about 150 people—fewer than the first two hearings.

Dr. Gobler explained that he had been studying the massive document, which is 473 pages, ever since the first version was submitted to the town in December 2015; the Town Board did not approve the report until September, after it underwent multiple revisions.

Though he said he has several concerns with the document, Dr. Gobler, a professor with Stony Brook’s School of Marine and Atmospheric Sciences, said his most prominent concern had to do with how much nitrogen the 118 residential units and golf course would add to the hamlet’s groundwater.

Presently, all of the nearly 600 acres owned by Discovery Land is 5-acre zoning, the most restrictive in the town, requiring less density than many other residential zones.

Specifically, Dr. Gobler said he found several issues in the draft environmental impact statement, or DEIS, and various charts showing projected nitrogen leaching rates at established golf courses. He said the information suggests that nitrogen leach rates of golf courses is around 10 percent, when Dr. Gobler said he believes the rate is actually closer to 30 percent—a consensus he reached based on discussions he has had with other scientists representing Suffolk County and the State Department of Environmental Conservation.

“So you may hear that this project will remove more nitrogen—but data show that is not the case,” Dr. Gobler told the Town Board on Tuesday night. “I’m very happy to work with the scientists here to talk about numbers.”

Mark Hissey, a vice president of Discovery Land, said he welcomes Dr. Gobler's input and would like to sit down with him to address his concerns.

"I'm delighted that Chris wants to get involved," Mr. Hissey said on Wednesday afternoon. "We had conversations with him in the past ... I'm really looking forward to sitting around the table with him and trying to find another solution."

In previous interviews, Mr. Hissey has explained that Discovery Land plans to line both the greens and tee boxes at the golf course, and trap the water used to irrigate the course so it cannot escape the property and contribute additional nitrogen to the groundwater. He has also stated that Discovery Land would install a contained septic system for the 118 residential units.

Under current zoning, the developer would be allowed to build upward of 80 homes on the main property, each with its own antiquated cesspool system. The developer intends to transfer some of the development rights from the adjoining Parlato and Kracke properties that it owns to allow for greater density on the main property.

Discovery Land is looking to build 95 single-family homes, 13 clubhouse cabins and 10 clubhouse condominiums, all centered on 168 acres; the remaining land would be left as open space.

Also this week, two elected officials, State Assemblyman Fred Thiele Jr. and Suffolk County Legislator Bridget Fleming, stated that they oppose The Hills at Southampton proposal, stating that the development has the potential to harm the environment.

“I think the Town Board should just be rejecting this out of hand,” Mr. Thiele said when reached on Monday. “I don’t think there is any merit to it.”

He added that the application on hand is a perfect example of why the town should repeal its PDD legislation. “Property owners can initiate these kinds of applications having nothing to do with comprehensive planning or long-term planning and just their own self interest.”

Ms. Fleming, a former Town Board member who voted against the project when it was in its pre-application phase, agreed with Mr. Thiele.

“There is no reason to give away this additional density,” Ms. Fleming said this week. “I think it’s a bad deal for the town and it’s not well-suited for our community.”

At Tuesday’s hearing, board members gave priority to those who did not have the chance to speak during the first two hearings.

Cynthia McNamara, who serves as vice president of the East Quogue Board of Education, said she supports the project, though she stressed that her opinion does not reflect that of the school district. Wearing a navy blue East Quogue school sweatshirt, Ms. McNamara said she does not believe the development will add children to the school district, pointing to how Discovery Land intends to market the unit as vacation homes.

“I think they would be a really good neighbor,” she added.

The next and final public hearing on the DEIS will be held on Tuesday, February 7, at 6 p.m. at Southampton Town Hall in Southampton Village.

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What is the purpose of these hearings (seriously) ?
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (355), southampton on Jan 9, 17 2:48 PM
So that a real estate developer can try to make $80 million in profit from a zoning change?
By dfree (278), hampton bays on Jan 9, 17 4:54 PM
The Southampton Press is remiss and biased for not reporting on the meeting held by the various local civic and environmental organizations held this past Saturday at the EQ school,despite the fact that their reporter was in attendance. In essence Assemblyman Thiele and County legislator and former Southampton Town Board member Bridget Fleming emphatically condemned moving forward with this subdivision/golf course. The much anticipated scientific analysis of Dr. Christopher Gobler clearly illustrated ...more
By zappy (25), east quogue on Jan 9, 17 5:46 PM
Wait Zappy i don't understand. .. did Dr Gobler "clearly illustrated the illusion" or did his presentation make it "clear that this project exceeds all acceptable parameters..."
..
Im confused and would appreciate if you could clarify for me.. tyvm.
DH
By dave h (164), calverton on Jan 9, 17 7:06 PM
The only people that want this are the developers who stand to make millions. Just goes to show whose interests the Town has in mind.
By johnj (637), Westhampton on Jan 10, 17 10:43 AM
3 members liked this comment
Zappy's right -- Why isn't there any reporting on the Jan. 7 meeting at the school? I didn't make it and would be very interested in 27east's take on the affair. Come on, give.
By Turkey Bridge (1686), Quiogue on Jan 10, 17 1:24 PM
The profit will be OVER $500 Million. Yes, that's half a Billion, with a B.
Dr. Gobler was very scientific and indicated that the THEORY of DLC to reduce nitrogen sounds good but has not been tested. Also, the flow of water beneath us will change direction in an undetermined way if golf course uses water from below. Too many unproven assumptions to take a chance, in my opinion.
By Taz (201), East Quogue on Jan 10, 17 1:53 PM
2 members liked this comment
johnj - you are remiss in saying that the only people that want it are the developers. There are many people who support this development as opposed to a development that will have many single family homes that will impact the school system and taxes with no benefits to the community.
By dexter831 (6), dexter831 on Jan 10, 17 3:49 PM
3 members liked this comment
I find it odd that an East Quogue educator likes the plan since it will not add children to the school district. Now that shows a certain passion for education. Give me your money but don't ask me to do anything for it. And we wonder why school budgets are out of control and school results are so poor.
By kjmraven (16), East Quogue on Jan 11, 17 1:25 PM
Cynthia McNamara is NOT an educator. She is an elected Board of Education member. That does not mean that she knows anything about teaching, budget perhaps, but not working with children.
By zappy (25), east quogue on Jan 12, 17 7:24 AM
Very disingenuous to wear an EQ school sweatshirt, announce that she was in a high position at the school, disavow that she was speaking for the school, and then go on and on with her opinion touting her job experience on how the school works and how the Hills would affect it. Shameful.
Did you ever hear the word "recuse"?
By Taz (201), East Quogue on Jan 11, 17 1:36 PM
1 member liked this comment
Why is that disingenuous? Is she not allowed an opinion just like every other taxpayer in the community? Does she forfeit her opinion on these types of issues because she VOLUNTARILY serves on our school Board of Education?
By eqmomof3 (22), EAST QUOGUE on Jan 11, 17 3:13 PM
I was there and was disappointed. Disingenuous at best, violation of board rules at worst. Whether you like it or not, when you're in a public position, you have to be careful with your personal comments (which u ARE allowed to have) because even when you do disavow, it is still a reality that people associate you as speaking for the school. The privilege of serving on our school board requires more discretion, class, and statesmanship IMO.
By NoJustBecause (2), East Quogue on Jan 11, 17 8:29 PM
2 members liked this comment
I was there as well. I had no issues with anything she said. I was actually happy to hear the facts from someone who has knowledge of how the school works and will be affected. I commend her for not taking the developers word for the fact that they will put no new students in the school. She actually took the time to contact schools where they have built other such resorts. There was also a former East Quogue board member who spoke in favor of the PDD because he served when Southampton Pines was ...more
By Crazy Town (4), Southampton on Jan 12, 17 7:14 AM
2 members liked this comment
Cynthia McNamara self praise stinks!
By greeneyedlady (45), East Quogue on Jan 17, 17 10:45 AM
Curious: Do you uphold your position with regard to the statements made by the region's NYS assemblyman and SC legislator during the locally held meeting of residents?
By Lion (151), southampton on Jan 21, 17 4:30 PM
Having lived in E. Q over 75 year.I now have up to 14 deer, 2 dozen turkeys, raccoons and possums living in our small area near the village. Never have we ever seen a deer in town until the last 5 or 6 years....It will get worst if this development happens.
In the 1950/60 we had well water. Our well was down15 feet. We picked up our neighbors cesspool in our home drinking water. It was gray and bubbled in the bath tub.. We had to drill over 300 feet before the Health Department would ...more
By Histerical (13), East Quogue on Jan 11, 17 2:15 PM
This article is just more of the anti development and liberal garbage that the liberal media is. Read the headline its negative. Please when you report report on both sides of the proposed development. 80-90% of the owners and voters in the East Quogue are are for this development.
By MichaelWillmott (1), on Jan 11, 17 3:36 PM
1 member liked this comment
I note this is your first post here, welcome.

The citizens in East Quogue, the Town of Southampton, and the region are overwhelmingly against this mega development in the Pine Barrens.
The dozen or so proponents of it are either currently doing business with the developer or hope to. Understandably, construction companies, real estate brokers, restauranteurs, etc. I'm betting you fit in one of those categories. Dr. Gobler was brought on board by then Supervisor Anna Throne-Holst ...more
By CleanWater (98), East Quogue on Jan 11, 17 6:51 PM
Seriously?

"The citizens in East Quogue, the Town of Southampton, and the region are overwhelmingly against this mega development in the Pine Barrens."

No one is in a position to make the above statement since there has been no independent polling of any of the constituencies you mention. Simply because those you choose to associate with those who may share your opinion does not in any way suggest that it represents the majority in the slightest, much less overwhelmingly.

You ...more
By VOS (930), WHB on Jan 11, 17 8:59 PM
Dr. Gobler said the experiment proposed by Discovery, fertigation, has never been done in the United States. He said, based on recent information, is, not may be, three fold less effective than what is predicted by the developer. If you weren't at the East Quogue Citizen's meeting take a look at the video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQVpXzvZ7R8. Or take a look at the January 10th video when it comes on line.


There are thousands of pieces of correspondence in Southampton Town ...more
By CleanWater (98), East Quogue on Jan 11, 17 10:29 PM
... that's "fake news".
By William Rodney (433), southampton on Jan 12, 17 10:13 AM
...meaning Willmott's post
By William Rodney (433), southampton on Jan 12, 17 10:16 AM
Interesting observations. If the three public hearings so far are anything to go by, your analysis is utter nonsense. Just another lie propagated for your own ends. I challenge you to to look at the tapes of the hearings rather than spouting this fiction.

Here, I'll save you some time.

Meeting 1: 23 for, 39 against, 2 tough to say
Meeting 2: 51 for (6 repeats), 36 against (19 repeats), 5 tough to say
Meeting 3: 40 for (13 repeats), 26 against (18 repeats), 0 tough to say
Totals: ...more
By Mark Hissey (121), Melville on Jan 13, 17 1:40 AM
1 member liked this comment
I don't know Chris Gobler personally, I understand he has an educational background (Phd) in Marine science. I can say from experience, 30 years as a hydrogeologist, that a marine science education and associated work experience does not make you an expert on groundwater hydrology or contaminant fate and transport. New York State just passed a law in 2016 establishing the profession of "Geologist". By November 2017 all geologic work in New York State will need to be performed by individuals licensed ...more
By weaver (14), southampton on Jan 13, 17 8:50 AM
3 members liked this comment
here you are again...arguing in the comments section.

Still we are faced with a project that has no public benefit.
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (355), southampton on Jan 16, 17 9:31 AM
The public benefit of golf course development in that area has been identified and described in the Town'e master plan.
By VOS (930), WHB on Jan 16, 17 10:07 PM
1 member liked this comment
People paid to speak.
Mr. Hissey, can we agree that you are a paid employee of Discovery Land? As is Mr. Bruyn (attorney) and Mr. Voorhis (consultant), and Mr. Grosser (Consultant) and Ms. Insalaco (public relations). Will you acknowledge there are other paid employees of Discovery who have spoken and NOT identified themselves as employees of Discovery? Can we also agree that at least 5 real estate brokers are included in your calculations including Mr. Oxman who has done transactions with ...more
By CleanWater (98), East Quogue on Jan 25, 17 1:01 PM
I assume Bob DeLuca and Richard Amper do not receive any financial benefit from there positions with their respective NFPs?
By weaver (14), southampton on Jan 27, 17 9:57 AM
It's not a claim. It's a fact. Look it up. I know Bob DeLuca and Dick Amper extremely well. I've fundraised extensively for both. And I've been extremely disappointed and disillusioned at how both have refused to engage in any meaningful discussions about the cause that they both claim to care most about. The water crisis is something that all parties need to discuss in in a collaborative manner and find real world, scientific solutions to it.

Paid to speak? How about attaching yourself ...more
By Mark Hissey (121), East Quogue on Feb 9, 17 1:18 AM
Mr. Wilmott, just because you assert your "facts" does not make them true. Those who have spoken in favor of this debacle are from Easthamton, Southampton, Quogue and one with a "cottage in Noyac and a home in Watermill." That is not 80% by any means. When listening to these people espouse the beauty of Discovery's resorts one wonders if Discovery dug deep into their guest registries to find these people to speak on their behalf and with what carrot? Mark Hissey vowed that no one is being paid ...more
By zappy (25), east quogue on Jan 11, 17 3:48 PM
1 member liked this comment
Are you suggesting that these people have no integrity? They spoke up because they believe in this project and they have done their homework on it. In fact, take a look at the East Hampton residents that you refer to. The only one that I think I have witnessed is Lisa Liguori, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Look at the tapes. It's public. Then ask them for yourself as to why they think this project is a good one.
By Mark Hissey (121), Melville on Jan 13, 17 1:50 AM
1 member liked this comment
Mr. Wilmott, just because you assert your "facts" does not make them true. Those who have spoken in favor of this debacle are from Easthamton, Southampton, Quogue and one with a "cottage in Noyac and a home in Watermill." That is not 80% by any means. When listening to these people espouse the beauty of Discovery's resorts one wonders if Discovery dug deep into their guest registries to find these people to speak on their behalf and with what carrot? Mark Hissey vowed that no one is being paid ...more
By zappy (25), east quogue on Jan 11, 17 3:49 PM
Your premise is flawed. You seem to think that a bunch of out-of-towners have come in and spoken as advocates. That is factually untrue. There are out-of-owners on both sides but not in the proportions that you describe. As I have said previously, look at the tapes of the hearings. You cannot create your own version of reality.

There is huge support for this project despite what what you might claim. It may be a convenient and libelous claim on your part, and a Trump-like distortion of ...more
By Mark Hissey (121), East Quogue on Jan 16, 17 1:32 AM
If the name of the game is water quality -- and it is -- Dr. Chris Gobler has given his reading as reported above. It is that the data do not show that the project will remove more nitrogen from the environment, contrary to what the developer claims. Also, his finding is that the leaching rate from golf courses is three times as much as the developer claims.

What's not reported above -- hey, they can't take down everything, but I was there and heard this -- is that Dr. Gobler gave the ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1686), Quiogue on Jan 11, 17 4:26 PM
2 members liked this comment
They aren't experimental. Fertigation is a well documented practice. A rudimentary Google search of that will show you immediately.

Thankfully, Dr. Gobler is amenable to sitting around a table and discussing this project on scientific merit and not on hyperbole and rumor. That will happen shortly and I expect it to be extremely productive.
By Mark Hissey (121), Melville on Jan 13, 17 2:00 AM
1 member liked this comment
This reminds me of your first DEIS and the scientists you used as references who, when asked, simply crushed Discovery's environmental practices as virtually non-existant.

So I did a rudimentary google search on fertigation as you suggested:

"Fertigation is the injection of fertilizers, soil amendments, and other water-soluble products into an irrigation system."

It is NOT taking water out of the ground and then by respraying into the ground removing th nitrogen and/or ...more
By CleanWater (98), East Quogue on Jan 13, 17 11:03 AM
The Southampton Town web site shows that
Shinnecock Hills golf course takes up about 229 acres
Atlantic Golf Club course covers about 177 acres
Golf At The Bridge golf course uses about 230 acres
But, Sebonack's pays taxes on 238 acres and Mr. Hissey insists that the course only covers abt. 90 acres - same as Mr. Hissey claims "The Hills" is utilizing.
Amazing, yes?

The last time I played golf on a 87 acre golf course - it was 9 HOLES...!

Amazing...
By sag2harbor (117), sag harbor on Jan 11, 17 9:40 PM
Simple Google search:
"How many acres for a golf course?
Based on a report from the Golf Course Superintendent Association of America, an 18-hole golf facility, which includes bodies of water, hard structures and out-of-play areas, averages about 150 to 200 acres. Typical urban golf courses are about 110 to 120 acres, while courses in resort areas may be 170 to 190 acres."

Good call.

By kjmraven (16), East Quogue on Jan 12, 17 5:33 PM
The comparison in apples to apples that you refer to would be 168 acres. That's an absolute fact and it includes all of the homes on the property.

But golf courses are not measured like that. They are measured by the sum total of tees, greens, fairways, roughs and bunkers. With that being the case, most courses are pretty similar in size. Out of play areas are not maintained. And they promote wildlife. It's a documented fact. Foil the Audubon reports at the town and see for yourself.

Unless ...more
By Mark Hissey (121), Melville on Jan 13, 17 1:56 AM
This issue is a BIG DEAL for this developer. If his acreage is "off" the project as proposed does not pass the minimal requirement of 65% open space - the LEGALLY OBLIGATED MINIMUM.

His lawyer, Wayne Bruyn, does not agree with him - and said a few years ago "golf courses require 175 to 200 acres".

Dr. Michael Hurdzan, esteemed member of the American Society of Golf Course Architects, says “a full size par 72 course would need 120-200 acres. This assumes, of course, only ...more
By sag2harbor (117), sag harbor on Jan 13, 17 10:56 AM

The GCSAA reference above doesn’t say a golf course and 118 homes averages 150 to 200 acres, it says a golf course averages 150 to 200 acres. So the fragments of space between the fairways, that others would call roughs, you are now calling “Out of play areas” even though your DEIS claims them as natural, un-fragmented, and preserved.

By CleanWater (98), East Quogue on Jan 13, 17 11:17 AM
Out of play areas are different from roughs. Roughs are playable. Out of play areas are not.

I've mentioned this previously, but I suspect it is falling on deaf ears, or you are just willfully ignoring it. Sebonack Golf Club has been legally required to file Audubon Reports with the town. Annually. The proliferation of wildlife is there on the record. Because you don't understand that wildlife thrives in a ecologically well thought out environment does not mean that you can create an alternate ...more
By Mark Hissey (121), East Quogue on Jan 16, 17 1:41 AM
Sebonack was a sanctuary well before the golf course. Just ask the Wilcox family.

Do you still want to turn Cow Neck into a golf course?
By Mr. Z (9045), North Sea on Jan 16, 17 6:41 AM
I'd actually like to ask people who know a little bit about ecology and environmental restoration. People like Dr. Stephen Handel; possibly the most esteemed environmental restoration expert in the world and also Audubon International who monitor things up there. It was not a sanctuary. It was a monoculture that was in a death spiral. It is now an ecologically diverse environment that is now a major stopping off point for migratory birds.

And let's put your puerile comments to bed once ...more
By Mark Hissey (121), East Quogue on Jan 19, 17 11:46 PM
It's not pointless.

And, just like "global warming" and tetraethyl lead you can cite any "scientist" you choose.

BTW, what did they do with the plaque?
By Mr. Z (9045), North Sea on Jan 20, 17 11:20 PM
The then-town Board overcame and changed the strict aquifer protection zoning to allow a well-connected developer to construct Golf at the Bridge. Not one of our elected representative fought on behalf on the residents they represented. In fact, Fred Thiele sent the board a letter in support of the zone change. So the 519 pristine undisturbed acreage which the town could have purchased to protect our drinking water (and cheaply, too, due to the then very restrictive zoning) but chose instead ...more
By sak (3), sag harbor on Jan 12, 17 4:08 PM
OK - game on - any Southampton Board member who votes to approve this development better be prepared to defend why they deserve re-election after they have used constituents as guinea pigs for a development that is experimental and one of a kind. The Board better assess both the upside gain and downside risk...to both our community and their political careers. Game on...
By kjmraven (16), East Quogue on Jan 12, 17 5:29 PM
This is a nice thought but it will be waaayyyyy too late if this project gets approved and then you/we vote out the current elected officials.

If the goal is to have this project tossed out based on the idea that it is not a benefit to the town or the environment then that information needs to continue being brought forth in a clear way.
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (355), southampton on Jan 13, 17 10:40 AM
This reminds me of your first DEIS and the scientists you used as references who, when asked, simply crushed Discovery's environmental practices as virtually non-existant.

So I did a rudimentary google search on fertigation as you suggested:

"Fertigation is the injection of fertilizers, soil amendments, and other water-soluble products into an irrigation system."

It is NOT taking water out of the ground and then by respraying into the ground removing th nitrogen and/or ...more
By CleanWater (98), East Quogue on Jan 13, 17 11:12 AM
Fascinating. Fertigation is not new and it does involve adding nutrients to turf via the irrigation system. There is no rule as to where the source of the nutrient originates. Nitrogen is nitrogen and plant uptake is well documented. If one wanted to split hairs you can call the process phyto-remediation of groundwater- using plants to improve groundwater quality.In this case groundwater containing high levels of nitrogen.
By Lion (151), southampton on Jan 21, 17 4:26 PM
1 member liked this comment
"Out of play areas are not maintained. And they promote wildlife. It's a documented fact."
.Ha!
Take a walk thru the woods of one local course and count the carcasses .. shot with light ammo so just rest assured they weren't killed, but left to die.
By dave h (164), calverton on Jan 13, 17 10:40 PM
1 member liked this comment
Gobler was at a SV meeting for a treatment plant. Said it would clean up Agawam Lake. When asked if it would reverse the problems, he recanted the statement to help it.
Hired and paid by SV...
By knitter (759), Southampton on Jan 14, 17 9:20 AM
Gobler was at a SV meeting for a treatment plant. Said it would clean up Agawam Lake. When asked if it would reverse the problems, he recanted the statement to help it.
Hired and paid by SV...
By knitter (759), Southampton on Jan 14, 17 9:21 AM
Are you questioning his credentials?
By But I'm a blank! (1274), Hampton Bays on Jan 17, 17 8:47 PM
In what regard? While Gobler appears to be extremely well versed and highly regarded professionally in his field of marine biology and specifically his studies of phytoplankton, I find nothing in his CV to indicate he has any academic or practical experience in hydrogeology.

While he may very well be a go to guy for information or theories on how nitrogen and other nutrients may alter the marine system, questions being raised regarding the affect of this project on movement of surface ...more
By VOS (930), WHB on Jan 18, 17 12:52 AM
1 member liked this comment
you truly do not understand Dr. Gobler's credentials.
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (355), southampton on Jan 18, 17 10:36 AM
Please enlighten us all.
By VOS (930), WHB on Jan 18, 17 7:36 PM
The Boards decision will reflect the true priorities and policies of the Board. This project managed to sneak in before the PDD moratorium. There are insufficient public benefits being offered by Discovery.
By Marrrmin (3), Hampton bays on Jan 15, 17 1:38 PM
The Board wants money - the environmental needs of the area isn't even on their list of concerns... Southampton is loooong past what it was just a decade ago let alone a century ago. Bye, bye Suffolk County - Open fields and farms and clean beaches - Hello Nassau County...overbuilt McMansions and gated communities - Next - Queens County.... A dirty disheveled polluted and littered MESS...
By Vikki K (484), Southampton on Jan 17, 17 10:39 AM
3 members liked this comment
...Sebonack and the hills should not be mentioned in the same sentence. Sebonack does not have 118 homes as does the hills subdivision PDD, so any comparison of the two is not reality-based.
By William Rodney (433), southampton on Jan 17, 17 5:02 PM
Nor does Sebonac sit on 600 acres of which most will be preserved for ZERO cost to the taxpayers
By jeffscan (15), sh on Jan 17, 17 8:33 PM
2 members liked this comment
Sebonack is 240 acres including out-of-play, restored, native and wetland areas.

The Hills is 592 acres as an equivalent.

I'm pretty confident that I've got a better grasp on the facts on both pieces of land and the regulations therein than anyone.

Feel free to pepper me with questions of course.
By Mark Hissey (121), East Quogue on Jan 19, 17 11:53 PM
1 member liked this comment
What if you cannot build the golf course, how will the designs of the homes you plan to build change, or will they?

By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (355), southampton on Jan 20, 17 1:50 PM
The houses will be bigger and the pieces of land that they lie on will be much bigger. There is no difference in the acreage. It will be either golf course or lawns.
By Mark Hissey (121), East Quogue on Jan 20, 17 9:15 PM
There's no market for the houses with which Mr. Hissey threatens us. 118 luxury homes on five-acre lots back in the woods in East Quogue with no golf course? I don't think so, not at the price this developer needs to get. We can "pepper" Mr. Hissey with questions, and he can "pepper" us back with all the answers he wants, but this as-of-right threat is a complete bluff. It won't happen, so don't be intimidated by it.

If the PDD is disapproved as it should be, you'll see maybe two ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1686), Quiogue on Jan 20, 17 9:54 PM
So then why dont you just do this, seems like it would be a more straightforward plan, why complicate things with a golf course etc. ?
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (355), southampton on Jan 21, 17 5:43 PM
My God, You really know it all don't you?

This is no bluff. I've said it on numerous occasions too. And you will keep bleating on about it and you will be proved wrong. And you'll shrug your shoulders and move on to your next piece of titillation and the people who actually believe you will wonder what the hell happened.

You have absolutely no clue about DLC's client base, demand or history. None whatsoever. I just hope that people refuse to believe your uninformed, arrogant statements. ...more
By Mark Hissey (121), East Quogue on Jan 20, 17 11:10 PM
Pete and Repeat were sitting on a cliff:

It's not pointless.

And, just like "global warming" and tetraethyl lead you can cite any "scientist" you choose.

BTW, what did they do with the plaque?
By Mr. Z (9045), North Sea on Jan 20, 17 11:24 PM
Guess I hit a nerve, Mr. Hissey. Uncharacteristically for you, your response is all attacks on me and self-serving conclusory statements, without a shred of substantive evidence to support any of it. Really. Zero. Not like you at all.

I've got two questions for you:

Question One - If you and your company are such civic-minded folks promoting the good of the community as you claim to be, then why are you threatening us with an added burden to our schools and extra nitrogen in ...more
By Turkey Bridge (1686), Quiogue on Jan 21, 17 9:46 AM
If you want to build a high-end house on 2 acres - you could buy about 30 lots in Southampton Pines (the development just East of The Hills in East Quogue).

That development was started around 1997 and it's still nowhere near built-out.

By the time those homes are built - the school might need more kids?
By sag2harbor (117), sag harbor on Jan 21, 17 9:35 AM
Bingo!
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (355), southampton on Jan 21, 17 10:14 AM
1 member liked this comment
US Open at Shinnecock Hills in 2018. So when is the US Open coming to East Quogue? Just a matter of time if DLC gets the golf course. What a jackpot that would be to the Hills at Southampton and the Dune Deck Hotel !!!!
By Taz (201), East Quogue on Jan 21, 17 1:49 PM
Do you have the slightest idea of what you are talking about? Cn you describe the mechanism for procuring any sort of Championship and the financial gain from it? Why hasn't National Golf Links of America attempted to cash-in on this supposed windfall?
By Mark Hissey (121), East Quogue on Feb 9, 17 1:22 AM
.... I assume Discovery will have those 'restrictive covenants", keeping kids out of the school, when they build the as of right development. That would truly show their desire to do the right thing for East Quogue.
By William Rodney (433), southampton on Jan 21, 17 6:05 PM
.... I assume Discovery will utilize those same "restrictive covenants", keeping kids out of the school, when they build the as of right development. That would truly show their desire to do the right thing for East Quogue and keep their client base happy - a win/win.
By William Rodney (433), southampton on Jan 21, 17 6:10 PM
Mark H.

When I asked how your plans would change in the event that you are unable to build the golf course you said: 'The houses will be bigger and the pieces of land that they lie on will be much bigger. There is no difference in the acreage. It will be either golf course or lawns.'

So then why dont you just do this, seems like it would be a more straightforward plan, why complicate things with a golf course etc. ?
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (355), southampton on Jan 22, 17 9:54 AM
The difference is $300 million plus in profits. Golf memberships are estimated to go for at least $500,000 each, times 248 members (118 from Hills and 130 from Dune Deck Hotel) = $124 million. Homes in the golf course community are expected to sell for AT LEAST $1million more than homes without a golf course, add in another $118 million. Then add in around $30,000 for 248 golf members to actually play - PER YEAR! - another $7,440,00. In just 10 years that adds another $74.4 million. That's ...more
By Taz (201), East Quogue on Jan 22, 17 11:26 AM
I am hoping that Mark H. can answer me. These numbers that you present are from where?
By adlkjd923ilifmac.aladfksdurwp (355), southampton on Jan 22, 17 11:28 AM
These have been gleaned from prices paid for golf memberships and annual playing fees elsewhere on LI. Mr. Hissey refused to answer direct questions about the prices DLC plans to charge when asked numerous times at the wine and cheese parties he hosted. Perhaps he will address them now?
By Taz (201), East Quogue on Jan 22, 17 11:35 AM
$300,000,000 potential profit. WOW.

Does that approximate the amount of Community Benefits Discovery is offering the Town for this HUGE gift?

Or, are they still offering $24. worth of beads and trinkets?
By FiddlerCrab (83), Westhampton Beach on Jan 22, 17 12:33 PM
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We're still waiting for comment on DLC earnings on Hills, Mr. Hissey.
By Taz (201), East Quogue on Jan 24, 17 1:28 PM
Wait away.
By Mark Hissey (121), East Quogue on Feb 9, 17 1:05 AM
Mr. Hissey
Your reference to Audubon International is just perfect!! Audubon International was founded in 1987 and is a organization funded by golf course owners promoting golf courses by trying to fool people into believing they are the Audubon Society founded in 1905. They have nothing to do with the Audubon Society. Another fraud.

And as to your people speaking at public hearings and your outrage at being accused of having people paid to be at the meetings:

Mr. Hissey, ...more
By CleanWater (98), East Quogue on Jan 25, 17 9:31 PM
2 members liked this comment
HB Lions, Over the Bridge 10k Run and 5k run walk, Hampton Bays