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Attorney Warns Quogue Village Not To Reject Eruv Application

Publication: The Southampton Press
By Erin McKinley   Mar 19, 2012 3:15 PM
Mar 21, 2012 12:49 PM

An attorney representing the East End Eruv Association warned Quogue Village Board members on Monday that a denial of its application to create a religious boundary within the municipality would violate the First Amendment rights of Orthodox Jews.

During the hour-long public hearing, attorney Robert Sugarman of the Manhattan firm of Weil, Gotshal and Manges told the estimated 50 people in attendance that there is legal precedent that would support the village’s approval of the boundary, called an eruv. Mr. Sugarman’s law firm is the same one that is representing the East End Eruv Association (EEEA) in the federal civil rights lawsuit that it previously filed against Quogue and Westhampton Beach villages and Southampton Town over the proposed religious boundary.

Specifically, Mr. Sugarman said Monday that the group’s application, which was filed with the village two months ago, notes that the courts have ruled that attaching boundary markers, known as “lechis,” to utility poles in the village could be done without violating the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution. The clause states that governments cannot give preference to one religion over another.

He added that, if the village were to reject the application, board members would be violating the rights of Orthodox Jews to practice their religion, a move that would violate the Constitution’s religious protections.

When asked by Quogue Mayor Peter Sartorius how many people would benefit from the boundary, Mr. Sugarman responded that five families in the village would utilize it. The proposed eruv, if ultimately approved, would encompass all of Westhampton Beach Village, portions of Quiogue, and the western half of Quogue Village.

The EEEA has not yet filed similar applications with Westhampton Beach Village or Southampton Town.

Referencing a pair of maps provided by Mr. Sugarman, Mr. Sartorius said that 48 lechis would be placed throughout the village. The wooden markers would be installed on utility poles along Montauk Highway, between Old Main Road and Jessup Avenue, and along Scrub, Old Depot and Old Country roads. The eruv also will be marked by certain natural landmarks and power lines—meaning that the eruv will be larger than what is delineated by the lechis.

Village Board members did not vote on the application following the hearing, during which seven people voiced their opposition to the plan. The only person to speak in favor was Yechiel Shaffer, the assistant rabbi of the Hampton Synagogue in Westhampton Beach, which is the only local house of worship that would benefit from the boundary’s creation. When reached after the meeting, Rabbi Shaffer said he was speaking on his own behalf and did not represent the synagogue.

The hearing is now closed and it is not clear when the board will vote on the application, Mr. Sartorius said immediately after the hearing.

The hearing—which was moved from Friday to Monday to accommodate practicing Jews—was held in response to the formal application filed by the EEEA requesting that the village permit the installation of the wooden markers on utility poles throughout Quogue. If established, the mostly invisible boundary would allow Orthodox Jews to engage in certain activities, such as the pushing of baby strollers and wheelchairs, and carry items, like cellphones, glasses, canes and keys, that are typically prohibited on the Sabbath.

The mayor told Mr. Sugarman he was worried that if the board permits the lechis, other groups will come forward and ask it to sign off on plans that call for the installation of signs and markers on the utility poles.

“We pride ourselves on our clean rights of way here in Quogue,” Mr. Sartorius said. “Our code enforcement officer spends a lot of time keeping our rights of way clean. If we put the lechis on the poles, how would we distinguish between them and other things?”

Mr. Sugarman responded by explaining that approval of the lechis would not require the board to sign off on similar requests.

In response to Mr. Sugarman’s comments, Arnold Sheiffer, the president of Jewish People for the Betterment of Westhampton—more commonly referred to as Jewish People Opposed to the Eruv—addressed the board on Monday. He said he was representing 300 members of his group, all of whom oppose the boundary.

“The members of my organization do not wish to live in a village whose territory has been demarcated by the erection of an eruv on government property,” Mr. Sheiffer said. “We would view the erection and public display of an eruv on public utility poles located within the village as a symbolic endorsement by the village of an interpretation of Jewish law with which we personally disagree and which our spiritual leaders expressly reject.”

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Anyone else confused?
By ba (43), speonk on Mar 19, 12 3:39 PM
Arnold Sheiffer makes a good point, that many more local Jewish people are against the eruv than are for it.
By clam pie (161), Westhampton on Mar 19, 12 3:50 PM
1 member liked this comment
In the 1950s, the majority of the populations of Alabama and Mississippi were in favor of the Jim Crow Laws. As Americans, we decided not to let the mob rule.

It doesn't matter what Sheiffer or his contrived majority of so called "Jews" think. The only things that counts is the law.

We'll have to see how it plays out.
By Steven (113), Westhampton on Mar 19, 12 4:43 PM
You are comparing an eruv to Jim Crowe?! Seriously?! And what do you mean by "so called Jews"?
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Mar 19, 12 7:20 PM
2 members liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Bill in Riverhead (190), Riverhead on Mar 20, 12 7:44 AM
haaaaa , you no it boo, lol
By local 84 (160), riverhead on Mar 25, 12 1:23 PM
that's what all the liberals say and it is ruining areas,cities,states and the country just my opinion i have the right to voice it dont i according to the law as you say.
By fyi (14), westhampton on Mar 25, 12 9:14 PM
Funny how a "real jew" uses the cpu on the sabbath. Perhaps you should rethink your comments.
Mar 26, 12 6:16 PM appended by AlwaysLocal
Sorry, that was meant towards Biba, I posted it on the wrong strand
By AlwaysLocal (292), southampton on Mar 26, 12 6:16 PM
I would like to put up little crucifixes all around the village.
By lucy2 (63), Southampton, NY on Mar 19, 12 5:36 PM
You already won that battle. Taxpayers, including the Jewish community, have to pay for Main Street Christmas trees and lights and the costly St. Patrick's Day Parade. On the other hand, the Eruv doesn't cost a dime, and also it can't be seen. The Eruv can't be heard, but everyone, including the Jewish community must listen to Sunday morning church bells. It's either freedom for everyone or freedom for no one.
By Steven (113), Westhampton on Mar 20, 12 5:28 AM
So the crucifixes are OK with you then?
By lucy2 (63), Southampton, NY on Mar 20, 12 6:16 AM
Quote:
". . .there is legal precedence that would support the village’s approval of the boundary, called an eruv."

Yes, lower state court precedent that exists because the state civil authorities therein surrendered to a presumptuous religious sect speciously alleging bigotry. If the Supreme Court ever rules on this question, knowing its absolute prohibition of religious symbols on public property to date, E3A will be rebuffed in a unanimous decision.

Hope that Quogue ...more
By highhatsize (2038), East Quogue on Mar 19, 12 5:54 PM
2 members liked this comment
Thank goodness you may have another "issue" to spout more psuedo legal/ethical/political/economical/ personal "opines" that may or may/may not have anything to do with you personally (or REALITY-wise) that is not in East Hampton - which we all know you are not a resident of. And please, tell me which course you are teaching and where, so I can sign up if I choose to hear .... blah blah blah blah blah. "Meow" is right HHS ... only it seems to apply to you and your pet peeves rather than a specific ...more
By Board Watcher (492), East Hampton on Mar 19, 12 6:58 PM
Put it for vote. If the village rejects it - live with it. If they vote for it- live with it. Enough with all the threats of suits. Learn to live with your fellow citizens and respect each others wishes.
By realistic (248), westhampton on Mar 19, 12 7:10 PM
In America, we don't let the mob rule. We are dictated by laws, not majorities.
By Steven (113), Westhampton on Mar 20, 12 5:24 AM
What about my rights to view utility poles un-hindered with religious garb?
Can we staple yard sale signs over the black sticks or will this offend jews and or yard salers?
Can I staple crucifixes on utility poles to show the way to church or star of davids to lead the way to temple??
So many questions!
By ridiculous (214), hampton bays on Mar 19, 12 7:20 PM
You right to view poles?
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Mar 19, 12 7:21 PM
1 member liked this comment
Fiddle Fiddle Fiddle !!!
By Nero (158), Sag Harbor on Mar 19, 12 8:23 PM
PS -- Remember the difference between a dead snake and a dead lawyer in the road?

There are skid marks in front of the snake!

Then there is the one about the priest, rabbi and lawyer arguing over a cow in the road. The first two are tugging on each end of the cow, and the lawyer is milking the cow.

Think about it!
By Nero (158), Sag Harbor on Mar 19, 12 8:27 PM
2 members liked this comment
"...the courts have agreed that attaching boundary markers, known as “lechis,” to utility poles in the village can be done without violating the Establishment Clause of the U.S. Constitution."

LIPA and it's property, are the property of the STATE of New York.

The use of utility poles for a religious purpose, violates the separation of Church, and State. What idiot wrote that decision?
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 19, 12 8:40 PM
to Board Watcher:

["meow"]
By highhatsize (2038), East Quogue on Mar 19, 12 9:02 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By chief1 (1225), southampton on Mar 19, 12 9:57 PM
1 member liked this comment
Congratulations. While most others here tried to hide their bigotry with double talk, you come right out and embrace yours
By witch hazel (185), tatooine on Mar 19, 12 10:46 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Great Hamptons (4), Quogue on Mar 20, 12 1:25 AM

Why does the ERUV need to annex 1/2 of Quogue to accommodate the Lean family on Park Circle? I am sure an ERUV that requires fewer poles and encompasses a smaller area can be found. Not only would this make it easier to confirm the ERUV is in "UP" and unbroken for each Sabbath but would respect the desires of the community.

Or go BIG! Annex all of Long Island! The proposed ERUV already makes extensive use of natural boundaries. Make the entire island one big ERUV bounded by ...more
By Great Hamptons (4), Quogue on Mar 20, 12 1:59 AM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Bill in Riverhead (190), Riverhead on Mar 20, 12 7:53 AM
Oh please. This is 2012. Not 2000 years ago. And I agree with Chief1. Witch hazel cut the crap of bigotry every time someone disagrees with you.
By realistic (248), westhampton on Mar 20, 12 6:57 AM
You agree with chief's blanket stereotype of an entire group of people because you too are a bigot
By witch hazel (185), tatooine on Mar 20, 12 7:16 AM
What stereotype are you talking about? When a person like yourself can't comprehend what I said they use the bigot card. I am a Christian and feel the same way if the Catholic Church wanted to erect Crosses on every telephone pole. Or if Muslims wanted to erect their symbol I would be against that too. Religion is a private matter and shouldn't infringe on others. Don't call me a bigot when you don't even know my values or morals.
By chief1 (1225), southampton on Mar 21, 12 11:05 PM
1 member liked this comment
So the same village that won't allow realtors to place temporary for sale signs curbside is considering allowing another group to permanently attach markers to telephone poles??
By Quoguer (8), Quogue on Mar 20, 12 10:26 AM
If your religion says you can't push, pull, or carry anything on the Sabbath, isn't erecting this boundary so you can do so anyway . . . cheating??? What's next - a special zone in which Catholics can eat meat on Fridays during Lent?
By Tay (22), Hampton Bays on Mar 20, 12 10:48 AM
3 members liked this comment
You can't use STATE property, for a RELIGIOUS purpose.

I really don't care how the lawyers try to dress this bird, 'cause calling on the establishment clause because of "preference" is a foul.
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 20, 12 1:44 PM
2 members liked this comment
Yep.
By double standard (1236), Remsenburg on Mar 20, 12 3:36 PM
When yer right yer right ZZZZZZZ!!
Wait for the cry of persecution , persecution from the legal team.
By bigfresh (1158), north sea on Mar 20, 12 5:22 PM
Wow alot of people call the bigot card if you dont agree with this hogwash. Why does a select few think they can just come into town and turn things upside down? Why do lawyers threaten a village to comply with their wishes or they will start litigation? Why don't the members of the Orthodox group come to the meeting and explain why it's necessary to erect these religios symbols? The group is alienating themselves by taken such a hardline against te majority.
By chief1 (1225), southampton on Mar 20, 12 8:17 PM
1 member liked this comment
I must be missing something: why can't they just distribute a map of the boudaries to their membership and trust them to read it and follow it?
By Doug Penny (39), Lexington, Virginia on Mar 20, 12 9:21 PM
2 members liked this comment
Sounds like a reasonable and thoughtful solution ..
By Bill in Riverhead (190), Riverhead on Mar 21, 12 7:06 AM
1 member liked this comment
Allow llechis around the entire Town of Southampton and put an end to this stupid argument. or better yet allow liechis around all of Long Island.
By EastEnd68 (813), Westhampton on Mar 21, 12 6:24 AM
Better yet, put one Llechis on the North Pole, and one on the South Pole and end this ridiculousness for everyone!
By GlassHouses (27), anywhere on Mar 21, 12 10:18 AM
2 members liked this comment
I am no expert on religious get-out-of-jail-free passes but I do know that Westhampton Beach is a quiet little village. Thus, it probably has a glut of yellow police tape. If individuals would like to wrap themselves in police tape as a sort of portable eruv, maybe like Friar Tuck around the belly or like Rambo, around the head and down the back. This is not meant to be flippant. I actually think this personal Eruv or maybe an app for the smart phone like iEruv which would just be a big yellow ...more
By Stephen Maybaline (18), Southampton on Mar 21, 12 10:35 AM
Just a few minutes on the web and voila. Personal Eruv Solutions are plentiful!

Included in the myriad of specially equipped personal Eruv Devices are an Eruv Hat with GPS that beeps whilst under the various Eruv points. There is an Eruv Umbrella that one can walk beneath and not to be outdone, the personal Eruv-O-Matic which unfolds into a personal cage or boundry.

Probably the silliest of all the ideas on the web are the Eruv outfitted homing pigeons who fly in circles around ...more
By Stephen Maybaline (18), Southampton on Mar 21, 12 10:40 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Clint Greenbaum (9), Westhampton Beach on Mar 21, 12 11:48 AM
Well, what would the "Boy Wonder" say?

Probably:

"Holy Religulous, Batman!"
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 21, 12 11:43 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By G (193), Southampton on Mar 21, 12 1:05 PM
My above comment that was “removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content” was not. I just provided a link to “The Daily Show” video from 3/23/11: “The Thin Jew Line”, viewed 258,989 times. It was in context with other satirical comments about the eruv.
By Clint Greenbaum (9), Westhampton Beach on Mar 21, 12 1:32 PM
You can't post hypertext in the context of a comment.

Just write "Google: x, y, or z"...
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 21, 12 3:47 PM
Can a Rabbi bless a path, or telephone poles and then assign the title of "eruv" to said path? Isn't the whole matter really symbolic? Substitute telephone pole for symbolic lechi and it's all the same thing isn't it?
By double standard (1236), Remsenburg on Mar 21, 12 5:50 PM
according to a website on Eruv: eruv.org

“For many Orthodox Jews, an eruv has become as necessary as the second car or a second bathroom. We could get along without it, but life is just so much nicer with it.”
By Great Hamptons (4), Quogue on Mar 22, 12 12:38 AM
Coping without an eruv
Many of those living in areas without an eruv are accustomed to life without one and have adapted their Shabbat practices accordingly. However, those that live in a place that has an eruv and are visiting a place without one, or if the eruv is temporarily out of service (perhaps due to wind or snow damage), may have difficulty making adjustments. Equally, those with young children, certain medical complaints and certain disabilities often feel trapped during Shabbat.
Even ...more
By Great Hamptons (4), Quogue on Mar 22, 12 12:49 AM
If having an Eruv is so very important to the petitioners, perhaps they should have considered that Quogue doesn't have one when they purchased their home.
By bigfresh (1158), north sea on Mar 22, 12 5:45 AM
There's a lot of truth in that. What I don't think the EEEA is considering, or perhaps they just don't care, is when you work with people you will likely find a solution. When you force something down people's throats you will likely find resistance.
By double standard (1236), Remsenburg on Mar 22, 12 12:24 PM
1 member liked this comment
Who the hell really gives a crap?

Lines coming down off of a pole... that's what it is physically.

It's not that deep! In passing, with all the other extraneous nonsense going on, will anyone not of that faith really notice them? I think not. If you do, it makes for a conversation piece... yes?
By Allergic2Stupidity (77), Riverhead on Mar 22, 12 12:40 PM
The "big deal" is in regard to the legal precedent it's existence would set.

It cannnot be permissible to use STATE property, for a RELIGIOUS purpose. It would totally render the Establishment Clause pointless.
Mar 22, 12 8:31 PM appended by Mr. Z
It's not a secular display, and has a singular religious purpose.
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 22, 12 8:31 PM
1 member liked this comment
It is only a big deal to small minded bigots with too much time on their hands. Hey, Mr. Z. do you complain when the town uses tax payer dollars for a Christmas parade complete with a Christmas tree lighting ceremony? Or do you consider a "CHRIST"mas tree a secular display? I love how you try to portray yourself as some kind of middle of the road defender of righteousness. What a joke.
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Mar 23, 12 7:01 PM
to peoplefirst;

If "Lechipole" were a nationally celebrated SECULAR holiday (like Christmas) that had its origin in Jews nailing lechai'in to poles hundreds of years ago, I would approve wholeheartedly of the town's use of tax payer dollars for a Lechipole parade as long as it didn't promote Judaism.

Needless to say, your analogy is inapt. The Orthodox Jews are attempting to attach Jewish symbols to poles exclusively BECAUSE they are Jewish RELIGIOUS symbols without any secular ...more
By highhatsize (2038), East Quogue on Mar 23, 12 7:25 PM
2 members liked this comment
The celebration of the birth if Christ is not a secular holiday. It is not celebrated by Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, or Hindus it is celebrated by Christians. Santa Nicola is a catholic saint. Nice try, highhatsize. I would have expected more from an intellectual thinker. If the first amendment truly prohibits this then demand the town not spend tax dollars for Christian holidays. Bigotry is the only excuse for the hypocrisy illustrated in posts that make excuses for one religion while attacking ...more
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Mar 24, 12 4:18 PM
to progressnow:

Actually, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and Hindus DO celebrate Christmas, that Christmas being the one involving Santa Claus and his Reindeer, kissing under the mistletoe, and the exchange of gifts.

In addition, CHRISTIANS celebrate the RELIGIOUS holiday of Christmas, the one about the birth of Jesus Christ two thousand years ago, prayer and sacraments.

These are two wholly different phenomena. The first may have evolved from the second but if you look for ...more
By highhatsize (2038), East Quogue on Mar 24, 12 8:23 PM
Highhatsize, why is it that bigots always try to parse their bigotry by claiming they are the victims? By the way, I am not Christian and I do not celebrate the Christian holiday celebrating the birth of Christ and I don't believe in flying reindeer either. Your myriad posts on this subject speak for themselves.
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Mar 24, 12 9:05 PM
1 member liked this comment
Give it up PF. There is nothing bigoted in HHS posts. Yes to one is yes to all. Just be consistent and realize that you can't make any one religion above the rule of law without making all religions above the rule of law. Throwing out the "bigot" card does not make an argument and sure doesn't change the reality of this issue... one group demands special consideration and the heck with anyone who disagrees. I'd fight that "group" if they were Jew, Christian or Parrot head.
By double standard (1236), Remsenburg on Mar 24, 12 9:38 PM
1 member liked this comment
peoplefirst - noone has expressed more hate on this board than you. you throw around the word "bigot" with more frequency an hate than anyone else on these threads. just because you are hating on people who hate, that doesn't make you not a hater. on the contrary, you are the most hateful person here. your inability to understand that people who don't share your opinion are not necesarily bad people shows you to be a maniac.
By milkdilk (43), Southampton on Mar 25, 12 9:04 AM
Hah! Yes, I am a maniac!
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Mar 25, 12 10:24 AM
Apparently, peoplefirst and progressnow grossly, and completely lack an understanding of the phrase "secular display".

In every legal decision handed down by the Supreme Court, "secular displays" are defined as seasonal displays representing each faith during a temporary "holiday season". Normally wherever you find a creche in public, or on government property, you'll find a "Star of David" or a Menorah as well.

This "eruv" DOES NOT qualify as "secular", because it a.) has a singular ...more
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 25, 12 2:48 PM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By G (193), Southampton on Mar 22, 12 2:39 PM
Just saying - Put aside the religious issue for a moment. I would suggest Village deny application without prejudice for proponents to reapply. Why? This assumes the purpose of Eruv is to allow Orthodox Jews to worship at the Hampton Synagogue in Westhampton Beach. Argument can be made that unless and until SouthamptonTown and Westhampton Beach allow Eruv, what benefit is Eruv in Quogue serve? If walking to services wouldn't users need to cross over Southampton Town and Westhampton Beach routes? ...more
By Plainguy (1), Quogue on Mar 22, 12 9:48 PM


We don't need any more Leeches in our Village.
Stop the Eruv before I suspend Rosary Beads on
every pole in town !
By Fordfern (6), Quogue on Mar 23, 12 4:06 PM
The inanities just keep on coming.
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Mar 23, 12 6:55 PM
Oh no! If they don't stop you'll hang rosary beads! Just when you think the posts could not get any more ridiculous . . .
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Mar 23, 12 7:03 PM
1 member liked this comment
G'head... true freedom of religion exists for all who choose to practice. To worship as their faith decries... now, with that in mind, just remember... if you do it for one (x-mas, St. Patty's day, *being that the man is a "SAINT".. we hold parades on public roads*) do it for all.

Otherwise, what would result?

Yay.. let's occupy religious freedom while tossing them back at Buckley's..
By Allergic2Stupidity (77), Riverhead on Mar 24, 12 2:44 PM
Seminar, perhaps you should try reading more carefully before going off on a rant. The word I used was not "insanity" it was "inanities". Google it as it apllies to your post as well.
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Mar 24, 12 7:49 AM
2 members liked this comment
beep beep. shes she smart too, Zooommmm Zoom
By They call me (966), southampton on Mar 24, 12 11:15 AM
An edict from the Almighty may be usurped by a mere mortal? Obviously some powerful forces at play here, with legal representation to boot. The cost of litigation would be trivial compared to the cost of recovery from a rain of fire and brimstone!
By loading... (265), quiogue on Mar 24, 12 11:33 AM
I've said this before - I don't understand why a civic government has to grant an exemption to a religious law. Oil and water folks.
Let the Orthodox community hand out maps, it will serve the same effect as the polemarkers.
By North of Highway (276), Westhampton Beach on Mar 24, 12 5:27 PM
But you feel it is ok for a civic government to spend tax payer dollars to celebrate Christmas?
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Mar 24, 12 9:06 PM
1 member liked this comment
We are a nation built on Judeo-Christian ideals and values. In contrast to post-Christian Europe, and to what President Obama and others incorrectly refer to as the “Muslim world,” most Americans conceive of an America that is inextricably linked with Judeo-Christian notions of liberty, justice, and the relationship between government and man.If you don't feel comfortable with that maybe Egypt would be a better place for you to raise your family.

Mar 25, 12 1:05 PM appended by They call me
Some advice for People first
By They call me (966), southampton on Mar 25, 12 1:05 PM
"...Judeo-Christian notions of liberty, justice, and the relationship between government and man."

How many of the "Founding Fathers" actually were practicing "Judeo-Christians"? The answer is NONE. They were actually "Deists" (clockwork universe theory), and the words Jesus Christ, christianity, Bible, divine, and god are never mentioned in the Constitution unless it is in a manner that EXCLUDES them from involvement with the state. This country was NOT founded as a "Christian Nation", ...more
Mar 26, 12 6:43 PM appended by Mr. Z
"The Christian god is a three headed monster, cruel, vengeful, and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites." ~ Thomas Jefferson
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 26, 12 6:43 PM
2 members liked this comment
Don't worry TCM, We hear you! Mr. Z would have you believe you are seeing the words "in God We Trust" over Mr. Jefferson's head on his coin. These progressives have no Class, Patriotism or Dignity. IN GOD WE TRUST indeed. Straight Ahead.
By 27dan (929), Southampton on Mar 26, 12 8:46 PM
Well, thanks to the Deists that framed this country I do have the right to inform you that no matter what some pious zealot has to say, I don't believe for a moment there is an invisible man in the sky.

In fact, to believe such is a simple clinical psychotic reaction to the fact that your education, experience, and knowledge cannot explain the reality in which you exist. So, you put your faith in some deity, and less in your species and reality. Have you heard of the periodic table, or ...more
Mar 27, 12 9:07 PM appended by Mr. Z
"Patriotism Sir, is the last resort of scoundrels." ~ Emma Goldman
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 26, 12 9:07 PM
How does it spend money on Christmas? By putting up some lights and a Menorah? Come on now - You haven't answered the issue - why is a civic government being asked to repeal a religious law? Religious law should be changed or amended by religion, not government. Hand out the maps, simple soliution.
By North of Highway (276), Westhampton Beach on Mar 27, 12 4:47 PM
Unreal. So anyone opposed to an Eruv is by default a bigot? Really? Same if you vote against Obama you are a racist. If you are for securing the border you are a racist. Just stop. Please just stop with this politically correct nonsense. Approve the Eruv and approve every application by every religion for whatever purpose they see fit. Against that? Then please shut up.
By double standard (1236), Remsenburg on Mar 24, 12 9:20 PM
This "eruv" DOES NOT qualify as "secular", because it a.) has a singular religious purpose, b.) it is NOT temporary, and c.) it caters solely to a SECT of a particular faith, not the entire Jewish population.

In other words, it's existence would give preference to a minority population, of a particular religion on a permanent basis by utilizing state (government) property.
Mar 25, 12 2:57 PM appended by Mr. Z
In other words, it is PROHIBITED by the Constitution for this "eruv" to exist where LIPA owns utility poles.
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 25, 12 2:57 PM
1 member liked this comment
i am a jewish person by birth after listening to these orthordox folks and their views I may just change my religion it also sickens me to see our village distroyed cause others like me will put our homes up for sale we like it the way it is and if changes come like this one time to leave Quogue.
By fyi (14), westhampton on Mar 25, 12 9:13 PM
Jews do not celebrate Christmas......at least real Jews do not......christmas is SHOVED down our throats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My entire life I've had do deal with Christians wishing me a merry Christmas when I DO NOT CELEBRATE IT!!!!!
By Biba (59), East Hampton on Mar 25, 12 10:52 PM
Sounds like when all those cheery cashiers wish you to "have a nice day" when you had set out to be perfectly miserable. Perhaps it would be easier to accept the challenge not as an affront but in the spirit in which it was intended.
By VOS (588), WHB on Mar 26, 12 1:06 AM
Xenophobia.

Xenophon was a Greek historian/philosopher/soldier.
Mar 26, 12 5:04 PM appended by Mr. Z
Check out "Three Minute Philosophy" sometime. It's a hoot, but don't show the kiddies...
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 26, 12 5:04 PM
Biba, funny how as a "real jew" you use the cpu on the sabbath. Hypocrit?
By AlwaysLocal (292), southampton on Mar 26, 12 6:19 PM
They have Eruvs in Nassau County...I know of one in West Hempstead, (used to live in the area) What is the big deal? Its not hurting anyone. Is it going to increase tax dollars or something? I'm trying to understand what the issue is.
By pstevens (387), Wilmington on Mar 26, 12 12:44 PM
Government-owned corporation

The Long Island Power Authority or LIPA [ "lie-pah" ], a municipal subdivision of the State of New York, was created under the Long Island Power Act of 1985 to acquire the Long Island Lighting Company (LILCO)'s assets and securities. A second Long Island Power Authority (LIPA), a wholly owned subsidiary of the first, acquired LILCO's transmission and distribution system in May 1998.

LIPA, a non-profit municipal electric utility, owns the retail electric ...more
Mar 26, 12 4:44 PM appended by Mr. Z
Also courtesy of Wiki: A government-owned corporation, state-owned company, state-owned entity, state enterprise, publicly owned corporation, government business enterprise, or parastatal is a legal entity created by a government to undertake commercial activities on behalf of an owner government. Their legal status varies from being a part of government into stock companies with a state as a regular stockholder. There is no standard definition of a government-owned corporation (GOC) or state-owned enterprise (SOE), although the two terms can be used interchangeably. The defining characteristics are that they have a distinct legal form and they are established to operate in commercial affairs. While they may also have public policy objectives, GOCs should be differentiated from other forms of government agencies or state entities established to pursue purely non-financial objectives
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 26, 12 4:44 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By local 84 (160), riverhead on Mar 26, 12 1:20 PM
Fiddle Fiddle Fiddle.
By Nero (158), Sag Harbor on Mar 26, 12 6:20 PM
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

~ Thomas Paine
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 26, 12 7:03 PM
2 members liked this comment
Look at that Mr. Z endorsed himself with his alter ego Philth . Cool trick Mr. Z

and thanks for the kind words B. F. and Dan 27 Its nice to see some people still have not lost there minds!

and too the REPUBLIC! for which it stands, One nation under GOD with Liberty and Justice for all!
By They call me (966), southampton on Mar 26, 12 9:01 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
Mar 26, 12 9:10 PM appended by Mr. Z
"What havoc has been made of books through every century of the Christian era? Where are fifty gospels, condemned as spurious by the bull of Pope Gelasius? Where are the forty wagon-loads of Hebrew manuscripts burned in France, by order of another pope, because suspected of heresy? Remember the 'index expurgatorius', the inquisition, the stake, the axe, the halter and the guillotine." ~ John Adams
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 26, 12 9:10 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By philathome (8597), Southampton on Mar 26, 12 9:14 PM
Reasonably.

Need a laugh tonight?

Google: Richard Jeni on politics

Happy viewing!!!!
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 26, 12 9:29 PM
SO, idiot and drool are bad, but "philth" is OK.

Riiiiggghhht...
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 26, 12 10:02 PM
Don't sweat it,Z-I'm sure you noticed the trollfest this site has become in the last couple of weeks.
The namecalling doesn't bother me,most of those posts are made by the lemmings that are so uninformed that they just follow eachother right over the cliff.
By philathome (8597), Southampton on Mar 27, 12 8:05 PM
Beep Beep Zoooooom
By They call me (966), southampton on Mar 27, 12 1:41 AM
to Mr. Z & philathome:

It is simply not true that the Founding Fathers were Deists. Only three probably were, Jefferson, Adams, and Franklin. The rest of the more than fifty individuals usually considered founding fathers were Christians. Some were nominal Christians (e.g. George Washington) but, besides their religious affiliation, we know nothing about the depth of the religious beliefs of almost all the others. In fact, we know nothing about some founding fathers other than their ...more
By highhatsize (2038), East Quogue on Mar 27, 12 1:31 PM
1 member liked this comment
Anglican Protestants were most likely the largest group, true, but the three who were Deists could be considered some of the "heavywieghts" of the bunch. Most likely any one of the fifty, give or take who was a Freemason, believed in "Providence", not "God" in a Christian sense. Simply a "higher power", or a supreme being. They actually did try to insert some Christian terminology into the founding documents, but it was allegedly struck down vehemently. I take a similar stance, that the Bible ...more
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 27, 12 4:40 PM
It is well known that the founding fathers chose to keep religion from infecting te creation of this country;though many may have been christian,thy did notalow those christian beleifs to interfere with the prnciples they put forward in the documents we were founded on.
The influences of those we don't diretly assocate with the writing of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution who had a major influence on the philosophical tenets on which they were based are sometimes lost in ...more
By philathome (8597), Southampton on Mar 27, 12 5:02 PM
Lovely moniker, thoroughly engaging input.

Now must get back to re-reading my copy of "A People's History of the United States".
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 27, 12 6:20 PM
1 member liked this comment
to Spike Lee is A Racist Pig:
Quote:
"Your high-brow analysis...would be significantly more credible if you were literate.
Is summertime anywhere around to weigh in on this PROGNOSTICATING? (emphasis added.)"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prophecy appears nowhere in these comments but delightful and unintended irony does in yours.
By highhatsize (2038), East Quogue on Mar 27, 12 7:54 PM
1 member liked this comment
Again...

true freedom of religion exists for all who choose to practice. To worship as their faith decries... now, with that in mind, just remember... if you do it for one (Christmas, St. Patty's day, *being that the man is a "SAINT".. we hold parades on public roads*) do it for all.

Otherwise, what would result?

Yay.. let's occupy religious freedom while tossing them back at Buckley's..

By Allergic2Stupidity (77), Riverhead on Mar 27, 12 2:58 PM
All the events you describe are maybe a month in duration, or one day of the year. That is secular, as they occur annually, not 24/7.

The eruv would be permanent, and use state property to exist (LIPA utility poles). This is simply not permissible under the First Amendment.
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 27, 12 4:46 PM
2 members liked this comment
Verizon ownes 46% of the poles.
By beachgirl11978 (18), Westhampton Beach on Mar 28, 12 9:13 AM
No, they (Verizon) pay tariffs per the attachments made to LIPA utility poles.
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 28, 12 9:37 PM
No, They OWN 46% of all poles via their joint use agreement. Verizon places half of the pole and LIPA the other half. Verizon and LIPA collect rent from CATV and other third parties that wish to license space on the poles.
By beachgirl11978 (18), Westhampton Beach on Mar 29, 12 5:29 PM
So, that being true leaves LIPA with a 54% stake in the ownership of the poles.

Sounds like they are the "majority shareholders" of the poles to me. That would tend to mean they are the owners, and they are a state owned business entity.
Mar 31, 12 11:07 AM appended by Mr. Z
And, if permission is required from both parties for this to be done, LIPA cannot grant use because of it's status as a government owned corporation. This is because LIPA, as property of the state would violate the First Amendment by granting permanent use of it's property, for a religious purpose.
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 31, 12 11:07 AM
PERSECUTION PERSECUTION PERSECUTION B S
By bigfresh (1158), north sea on Mar 28, 12 7:45 AM
God created Man and Woman and all was well with the world. And then they made religion.
By lazymedic (86), southampton on Mar 28, 12 12:33 PM
1 member liked this comment
"It’s an incredible con job when you think about it, to believe something now in exchange for something after death. Even corporations with their reward systems don’t try to make it posthumous."

~ Gloria Steinem
By Mr. Z (6033), North Sea on Mar 31, 12 11:21 AM
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