Mar 21, 2012 12:49 PM
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An attorney representing the East End Eruv Association warned Quogue Village Board members on Monday that a denial of its application to create a religious boundary within the municipality would violate the First Amendment rights of Orthodox Jews.
During the hour-long public hearing, attorney Robert Sugarman of the Manhattan firm of Weil, Gotshal and Manges told the estimated 50 people in attendance that there is legal precedent that would support the village’s approval of the boundary, called an eruv. Mr. Sugarman’s law firm is the same one that is representing the East End Eruv Association (EEEA) in the federal civil rights lawsuit that it previously filed against Quogue and Westhampton Beach villages and Southampton Town over the proposed religious boundary.
Specifically, Mr. Sugarman said Monday that the group’s application, which was filed... more
During the hour-long public hearing, attorney Robert Sugarman of the Manhattan firm of Weil, Gotshal and Manges told the estimated 50 people in attendance that there is legal precedent that would support the village’s approval of the boundary, called an eruv. Mr. Sugarman’s law firm is the same one that is representing the East End Eruv Association (EEEA) in the federal civil rights lawsuit that it previously filed against Quogue and Westhampton Beach villages and Southampton Town over the proposed religious boundary.
Specifically, Mr. Sugarman said Monday that the group’s application, which was filed... more
It doesn't matter what Sheiffer or his contrived majority of so called "Jews" think. The only things that counts is the law.
We'll have to see how it plays out.
". . .there is legal precedence that would support the village’s approval of the boundary, called an eruv."
Yes, lower state court precedent that exists because the state civil authorities therein surrendered to a presumptuous religious sect speciously alleging bigotry. If the Supreme Court ever rules on this question, knowing its absolute prohibition of religious symbols on public property to date, E3A will be rebuffed in a unanimous decision.
Hope that Quogue ...more residents are willing to reach into their pockets to defend their principles. The implied threat of this application is that denial will cost a fortune in subsequent litigation.
Can we staple yard sale signs over the black sticks or will this offend jews and or yard salers?
Can I staple crucifixes on utility poles to show the way to church or star of davids to lead the way to temple??
So many questions!
There are skid marks in front of the snake!
Then there is the one about the priest, rabbi and lawyer arguing over a cow in the road. The first two are tugging on each end of the cow, and the lawyer is milking the cow.
Think about it!
LIPA and it's property, are the property of the STATE of New York.
The use of utility poles for a religious purpose, violates the separation of Church, and State. What idiot wrote that decision?
["meow"]
Why does the ERUV need to annex 1/2 of Quogue to accommodate the Lean family on Park Circle? I am sure an ERUV that requires fewer poles and encompasses a smaller area can be found. Not only would this make it easier to confirm the ERUV is in "UP" and unbroken for each Sabbath but would respect the desires of the community.
Or go BIG! Annex all of Long Island! The proposed ERUV already makes extensive use of natural boundaries. Make the entire island one big ERUV bounded by ...more the Atlantic Ocean. This is no more ridiculous than the current proposed boundaries and certainly fits the over expansive nature of the applicants.
I really don't care how the lawyers try to dress this bird, 'cause calling on the establishment clause because of "preference" is a foul.
Wait for the cry of persecution , persecution from the legal team.
Included in the myriad of specially equipped personal Eruv Devices are an Eruv Hat with GPS that beeps whilst under the various Eruv points. There is an Eruv Umbrella that one can walk beneath and not to be outdone, the personal Eruv-O-Matic which unfolds into a personal cage or boundry.
Probably the silliest of all the ideas on the web are the Eruv outfitted homing pigeons who fly in circles around ...more the Eruv boundary. That would never work.
Probably:
"Holy Religulous, Batman!"
Just write "Google: x, y, or z"...
“For many Orthodox Jews, an eruv has become as necessary as the second car or a second bathroom. We could get along without it, but life is just so much nicer with it.”
Many of those living in areas without an eruv are accustomed to life without one and have adapted their Shabbat practices accordingly. However, those that live in a place that has an eruv and are visiting a place without one, or if the eruv is temporarily out of service (perhaps due to wind or snow damage), may have difficulty making adjustments. Equally, those with young children, certain medical complaints and certain disabilities often feel trapped during Shabbat.
Even ...more without an eruv, there is no problem with wearing clothing outside, provided that it is normal clothing and being worn in its normal manner, as it is considered secondary to, and "part of," the person himself. The same is true for most medical items that are attached to the body and can be considered secondary to it, such as a cast, bandage, or eyeglasses.
Rabbinic authorities (poskim) historically have differed about the use of a cane, wheelchair, or other similar devices by the disabled. Some have allowed their use even without an eruv and others have not. In recent years, however, the majority of poskim have leaned toward allowing these devices, since, if they were prohibited, disabled individuals might attempt to leave their homes on Shabbat without the device(s) and therefore risk serious injury.
Loose medicines may not be carried; most authorities have agreed that it is preferable that one who constantly needs medication remain at home rather than transgressing Shabbat by carrying medication. But, if such a person leaves home, then comes in need of medication, it is permissible under the laws of Pikuach nefesh to break Shabbat and bring the medication to the person. A small number of authorities in recent years have been permitting carrying the medication, however, since such a person may be tempted to leave home without it, and then his/her life may be endangered thereafter.
Most authorities also allow the wearing of jewelry by women. There are differing customs regarding the wearing of jewelry watches by men. As men's jewelry for the purpose of adornment has become more common in recent generations, the wearing of a watch by a man is accepted, provided that the watch is visible to others and is not covered by a sleeve.
In communities without an eruv, it is customary to create belts, bracelets, necklaces, or similar wearable objects incorporating housekeys so that the keys can be worn rather than carried when going outdoors. To be validly "worn" rather than "carried", the key needs to be an integral part of the belt, bracelet, or other item rather than simply attached to it. It may be either an adornment if worn in a manner visible to others or a component needed to keep the wearable object fastened. Special "shabbos belts" and similar items that incorporate this property are sold in religious stores.
A tallit may be worn while walking to/from the synagogue. Prayer books and other books may not be carried; either they must be brought to the synagogue prior to Shabbat or else the congregation's prayer books must be used.
Lines coming down off of a pole... that's what it is physically.
It's not that deep! In passing, with all the other extraneous nonsense going on, will anyone not of that faith really notice them? I think not. If you do, it makes for a conversation piece... yes?
It cannnot be permissible to use STATE property, for a RELIGIOUS purpose. It would totally render the Establishment Clause pointless.
If "Lechipole" were a nationally celebrated SECULAR holiday (like Christmas) that had its origin in Jews nailing lechai'in to poles hundreds of years ago, I would approve wholeheartedly of the town's use of tax payer dollars for a Lechipole parade as long as it didn't promote Judaism.
Needless to say, your analogy is inapt. The Orthodox Jews are attempting to attach Jewish symbols to poles exclusively BECAUSE they are Jewish RELIGIOUS symbols without any secular ...more significance whatsoever.
The 1st Amendment prohibits this. No exceptions.
Actually, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists and Hindus DO celebrate Christmas, that Christmas being the one involving Santa Claus and his Reindeer, kissing under the mistletoe, and the exchange of gifts.
In addition, CHRISTIANS celebrate the RELIGIOUS holiday of Christmas, the one about the birth of Jesus Christ two thousand years ago, prayer and sacraments.
These are two wholly different phenomena. The first may have evolved from the second but if you look for ...more canonical authority for Santa Claus and his flying reindeer you will find none.
It is difficult for me to believe that you fail to understand this dichotomy. Perhaps it would make it easier if you think of the word "Christmas" as a homonym. The Christmas of parades and parties is the one that the government supports, not the one honoring Jesus Christ.
We are not bigots because we seek to prevent the Orthodox Jews (or anyone else) from placing religious symbols on public property. Rather, it is those who defame others as bigots in order to finesse an exceptional status for their religion alone who are despicable.
In every legal decision handed down by the Supreme Court, "secular displays" are defined as seasonal displays representing each faith during a temporary "holiday season". Normally wherever you find a creche in public, or on government property, you'll find a "Star of David" or a Menorah as well.
This "eruv" DOES NOT qualify as "secular", because it a.) has a singular ...more religious purpose, b.) it is NOT temporary, and c.) it caters solely to a SECT of a particular faith, not the entire Jewish population.
In other words, it's existence would give preference to a minority population, of a particular religion on a permanent basis by utilizing state (government) property.
If you're still unable to grasp this concept, well, you can guess where to put your "bigot card", I'm sure...
We don't need any more Leeches in our Village.
Stop the Eruv before I suspend Rosary Beads on
every pole in town !
Otherwise, what would result?
Yay.. let's occupy religious freedom while tossing them back at Buckley's..
Let the Orthodox community hand out maps, it will serve the same effect as the polemarkers.
How many of the "Founding Fathers" actually were practicing "Judeo-Christians"? The answer is NONE. They were actually "Deists" (clockwork universe theory), and the words Jesus Christ, christianity, Bible, divine, and god are never mentioned in the Constitution unless it is in a manner that EXCLUDES them from involvement with the state. This country was NOT founded as a "Christian Nation", ...more nor was it meant to be one. It is however meant to be a place where you can practice any religion you like, provided it does not cause public harm.
Here is a quote from the 1796 Tripoli Treaty should you have any doubt:
Article 11
As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws , religion or tranquility of the Mussulmen-and as the said states have never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
In fact, to believe such is a simple clinical psychotic reaction to the fact that your education, experience, and knowledge cannot explain the reality in which you exist. So, you put your faith in some deity, and less in your species and reality. Have you heard of the periodic table, or ...more do you still believe in earth, air, water, fire, and aether? My advice is to listen well when you're told the earth was not created a mere 6,000 years ago. Get used to it.
In other words, it's existence would give preference to a minority population, of a particular religion on a permanent basis by utilizing state (government) property.
Xenophon was a Greek historian/philosopher/soldier.
The Long Island Power Authority or LIPA [ "lie-pah" ], a municipal subdivision of the State of New York, was created under the Long Island Power Act of 1985 to acquire the Long Island Lighting Company (LILCO)'s assets and securities. A second Long Island Power Authority (LIPA), a wholly owned subsidiary of the first, acquired LILCO's transmission and distribution system in May 1998.
LIPA, a non-profit municipal electric utility, owns the retail electric ...more system on Long Island and provides electric service to over 1.1 million customers in Nassau and Suffolk counties, and the Rockaway Peninsula in Queens.
~ Thomas Paine
and thanks for the kind words B. F. and Dan 27 Its nice to see some people still have not lost there minds!
and too the REPUBLIC! for which it stands, One nation under GOD with Liberty and Justice for all!
Need a laugh tonight?
Google: Richard Jeni on politics
Happy viewing!!!!
Riiiiggghhht...
The namecalling doesn't bother me,most of those posts are made by the lemmings that are so uninformed that they just follow eachother right over the cliff.
It is simply not true that the Founding Fathers were Deists. Only three probably were, Jefferson, Adams, and Franklin. The rest of the more than fifty individuals usually considered founding fathers were Christians. Some were nominal Christians (e.g. George Washington) but, besides their religious affiliation, we know nothing about the depth of the religious beliefs of almost all the others. In fact, we know nothing about some founding fathers other than their ...more names.
The reason that some claim Deism as the "religion" of ALL the founding fathers is that two of the three actual Deists (Franklin and Jefferson) wrote far more than all the other founding fathers put together.
Notwithstanding, it is incontestable that the country was NOT founded on Christian religious beliefs however much the founding fathers embraced Christian behavioral moral perspectives to determine personal and civil conduct.
Furthermore, while Jefferson loathed sectarian religion, here's what he had to say in a letter to John Adams about the bible that Jefferson created by paring the accepted bible down to "the very words only of Jesus.":
"There will be found remaining the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man."
Jefferson also made mention that as long as you can see through Paul, the "benevolent code of morals" is easy to glean. More people have died, been persecuted, maimed, and imprisoned in the name of "God" than any other in History. I for one would enjoy a catharsis from religion in politics, as well as government. That means you can remove "In God We Trust" from the currency, and "Keep they religion, to thyself", in my humble opinion.
The influences of those we don't diretly assocate with the writing of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution who had a major influence on the philosophical tenets on which they were based are sometimes lost in ...more the argument about whether we are founded on christian principles or were merely guided by som of the positive attributes of christianity;those same principles are present in all major religions.
James Madison and Thomas paine were both non-religious contributors to the founding of this nation;Paine himself wrote 'the Rights of man' in response o the assertion that religion should influence political thought,and his bitterness toward religion and what he considered its corrupting qualities and influences turned much of the nation,if not the world,against im.But he made strong arguments for the separation of church and state which still stand and are effective today.
Though many of the founding fathers amy have practiced religion,they knew the importance of keeping religion and its corrupting influence from direct interference in determining the publics' best interests.
Now must get back to re-reading my copy of "A People's History of the United States".
Quote:
"Your high-brow analysis...would be significantly more credible if you were literate.
Is summertime anywhere around to weigh in on this PROGNOSTICATING? (emphasis added.)"
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Prophecy appears nowhere in these comments but delightful and unintended irony does in yours.
true freedom of religion exists for all who choose to practice. To worship as their faith decries... now, with that in mind, just remember... if you do it for one (Christmas, St. Patty's day, *being that the man is a "SAINT".. we hold parades on public roads*) do it for all.
Otherwise, what would result?
Yay.. let's occupy religious freedom while tossing them back at Buckley's..
The eruv would be permanent, and use state property to exist (LIPA utility poles). This is simply not permissible under the First Amendment.
Sounds like they are the "majority shareholders" of the poles to me. That would tend to mean they are the owners, and they are a state owned business entity.
~ Gloria Steinem