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Story - News

Oct 6, 2013 11:08 AMPublication: The Southampton Press

Bishop Signs Letter To Speaker Calling For Vote To End Shutdown

Oct 7, 2013 9:22 AM

Calling the shutdown of the federal government “harmful and reckless,” U.S. Representative Tim Bishop joined with 200 fellow lawmakers on Saturday in signing a letter calling on House Speaker John Boehner to allow a vote on a spending bill that would reopen operations.

“The only way forward for the GOP leadership is to abandon the extremists in their caucus and join with Democrats in finding a reasonable solution,” said Mr. Bishop, a Democrat from Southampton, who lobbied his colleagues to sign the letter.

The letter to Mr. Boehner, written on the fifth day of the shutdown, starts, “Enough is enough,” and goes on to “demand a vote on a clean continuing resolution immediately.” Such a vote would drop the GOP strategy of tying funding for government operations to an attempt to thwart the implementation of the Affordable Care Act. The move has “put our economy at risk in order to advance a political agenda,” House Democrats say in the letter.

The letter concludes: “The games have to stop.”

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This is what happens when corporate power overtakes the democratic process in a Republic.

Yes, the minority in this country do have rights. They have the right to protest, they have the right to dissent, and they have the right to disagree vehemently at times. BUT, no minority has the right to corrupt the democratic process. This is the GOP grasping at the last straw they have left, because they have failed via ALL other avenues. Sore losers is the phrase that comes to mind.

When ...more
Oct 6, 13 1:24 PM appended by Mr. Z
EDIT: "his/her seat"
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 6, 13 1:24 PM
1 member liked this comment
Either that or they are sick and tired of writing a blank check and want to address the debt and defecit issue.
By razza5350 (1910), East Hampton on Oct 6, 13 8:56 PM
For every brain-dead "patriot" that says the teaparty movement is grassroots, here is more proof that you are out of your freaking minds.

"Heritage Action, which has trained 6,000 people it calls sentinels around the country, sent them to open meetings and other events to confront their elected representatives. Its “Defund Obamacare Town Hall Tour,” which began in Fayetteville, Ark., on Aug. 19 and ended 10 days later in Wilmington, Del., drew hundreds at every stop."

Google ...more
By witch hazel (224), tatooine on Oct 6, 13 1:30 PM
The Tea Party should be called what it is: a domestic terrorist group, funded by corporatist dictators, spending tens of millions of dollars to destroy the government and disenfranchise minority voters with the goal of turning America into a full-fledged Plutocracy. Their acts are not "patriotic", but treasonous and they have more in common with Bashar al-Assad than they do with Thomas Jefferson.

Using hate and fear, they gin up the most simple-minded among us (e.g. capt'n America, preliator, ...more
By witch hazel (224), tatooine on Oct 6, 13 1:40 PM
The Koch brothers have corrupted our democratic process with untold millions of dollars and their "Tea Party" group. What they have done is quite likely seditious, against the principles of limited charter, and against a major founding American principle that corporations ARE NOT PERMITTED TO BE INVOLVED IN CIVIC LIFE. Corporations should exist to conduct business, and a democratic government should exist to represent the people of its Republic, not Oligarchy or the creation of a "Plutocracy".

...more
Oct 6, 13 2:08 PM appended by Mr. Z
"Power" is listed as a means of force by legal definition. For your viewing pleasure: 18 USC ยง 2384 - Seditious conspiracy: If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 6, 13 2:08 PM
2 members liked this comment
Do the names George Soros, Ted Turner, Steven Spielberg, David Koch or Stephen Bing have any bearing here?

Or would you feel that citing them would unfairly gut your whine? (I'd include Michael Bloomberg but you'd all fall all over yourselves trying to convince everyone he's a Republican.)

As for Bishop's letter, Boehner and a whole bunch of Democrats for that matter would likely have the same response: "Who?"
By Frank Wheeler (1818), Northampton on Oct 6, 13 2:53 PM
1 member liked this comment
Considering the major Tea Party backers are Rupert Murdoch, and the Koch brothers, you're 1 for 5. The "Citizens for a Sound Economy" created a "Tea Party" webpage back in 2002 via Koch funding (www.usteaparty.com). That incarnation failed, but they did not give up. BTW, the website address www.usteaparty.com is currently owned by Freedomworks.

For reference:

"Bruce Bartlett, a conservative economist and a historian, who once worked at the National Center for Policy Analysis, ...more
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 6, 13 3:24 PM
2 members liked this comment
You're right, it's on both sides. Won't ever say it isn't, and always say it's a problem with Congress, and that means as a whole including both parties. But, current events in recent years are about this extremist minority and the Republican Party. The Koch brothers have outspent even ExxonMobil. Unfortunately for them, the "right" are in the spotlight. I didn't like the Big Pharma handouts, and hold no favor for corporate welfare one bit either. I don't like Wall Street contributing to presidential ...more
Oct 7, 13 9:33 AM appended by Mr. Z
In other news, Tim Miller switches sides to become a Democrat. That should tell you something...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 7, 13 9:33 AM
The major financial supporter of the left is George Soros, a Greek financier and former Nazi youth soldier who, unlike Koch Industries, does not provide tens of thousands of middle class jobs for Americans.

Please explain how George Soros is morally superior to the Koch's.
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Oct 15, 13 11:16 AM
The dems don't have any big corporate money influencing the process? Hypocrisy. The whole system is tainted and to think it will change is naive.
By dnice (2345), Hampton Bays on Oct 6, 13 3:00 PM
1 member liked this comment
Nothing will change, if people do nothing to foster it.

Or as the old maxim goes:

No man, who is not inflamed by vain-glory into enthusiasm, can flatter himself that his single, unsupported, desultory, unsystematic endeavours are of power to defeat the subtle designs and united Cabals of ambitious citizens. When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.

~ Edmund Burke
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 6, 13 3:38 PM
That is an old maxim?
By dnice (2345), Hampton Bays on Oct 6, 13 8:23 PM
Older than our country.

And, you may recognize it in it's corrupted, misquoted form:

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 6, 13 8:32 PM
Ah, yes, thanks. I don't always agree with you, but I usually learn something.
By dnice (2345), Hampton Bays on Oct 7, 13 9:16 AM
Perhaps if Obamacare wasn't unconstitutional there would not be a problem. President Obama, always insisted that Obamacare was not a tax and that's how it went before the US Supreme Court. However, the Supreme Court determined that it WAS a tax. One big problem, according to the Origination Clause in the US Constitution, all tax bills must originate in the House of Representatives. Obamacare, now declared as a TAX, originated in the Senate, thus making it unconstitutional.


By itsamazing (222), Southampton on Oct 6, 13 4:37 PM
There was a House, and a Senate version. It was a bipartisan effort, and intitially crafted in the House of Representatives. It passed in the House of Representatives, and then passed the Senate. The House dropped their version, amended the Senate version through reconciliation, and eventually H.R. 3962, became law as the PPACA as passed by Congress and signed by the President.

I don't know where you get your info, but drop your source.

By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 6, 13 5:01 PM
1 member liked this comment
Bipartisan effort???? HOGWASH!!!!
By razza5350 (1910), East Hampton on Oct 6, 13 8:59 PM
The only resistance was from the usual lobbyists, and the minority lunatic fringe members of the Tea Party.

It passed the House, it passed the Senate, amendments were agreed to in reconciliation by the House and Senate, it was signed into law, and upheld by the Supreme Court.

The lunatic fringe needs to get over it, and get on with the business of (allegedly) running this country.
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 6, 13 9:27 PM
"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy."

....you know the source
By loading... (579), quiogue on Oct 6, 13 11:29 PM
If Congress can impose a health-insurance mandate, then there is no limit to what Congress can do, and the Constitution’s limits on congressional power will have essentially been eliminated.
By loading... (579), quiogue on Oct 6, 13 11:53 PM
Listen, they're not going to tell you where to live, drive, eat, sleep, or crap. If they do, I'll be right on the front lines telling them where to go.

There are limits to what they can do. They have pushed those limits, and we are the laughing stock of the "free world".

This Act is not perfect, but if you want the insurance corporations out of your pocket, this is a step in that direction. The mandate is the least of what this legislation provides. The "free market" does need ...more
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 7, 13 12:32 AM
The government has never required all Americans to purchase any good or service. An individual mandate to purchase a particular product from a private party, with tax penalties to enforce it, is unprecedented and flies in the face of our founding principles. Nowhere in the Constitution is Congress given the power to mandate that an individual purchase a good or service and no decision of the Supreme Court justifies such a claim of power. Once they get their foot in the door, the next thing you know ...more
By loading... (579), quiogue on Oct 7, 13 2:23 AM

Z, its Ok to be wrong. Happens to the best of us. At the time the Dems controlled the house and the senate. It passed by 5 votes with about 40 democrats voting against it and 1 lone republican voting for it (not exactly the bipartisan vote you stated). One could also argue that this bill was so unpopular that it was one of the major reasons the dems lost control of the house. In addition the bill was never reconciled (due to the Scott Brown victory). Obama had to come up with a political maneuver ...more
By razza5350 (1910), East Hampton on Oct 7, 13 4:44 AM
I never stated it was a bipartisan vote. The legislation was a bipartisan effort from both houses of Congress. The Senate Finance Committee consisting of Democrats, AND Republicans hammered out what eventually became the legislation after the House dropped their version and reconciled it. The issue is not the exchanges, or the law in and of itself. The Tea Party rose up and cried like mules about the mandate. No insult to actual hard working mules.

Massachusetts and Connecticut created ...more
Oct 7, 13 8:11 AM appended by Mr. Z
And, you're not still passing that Michael Connelly letter about H.R. 3200 around are you? There are tools who still are, and think it's about the PPACA...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 7, 13 8:11 AM
1. How can you say this was a bipartisan effort? The republicans have been trying to kill this all along. Even Bishop was against the Senate plan and said its expansion of medicaid would cripple NY. He eventually stepped in line (as ususal).
2. Its not a fee. Its a tax.
3. The house was forced to drop their plan after Scott Browns victory. They had to take the Senate plan as is or nothing. Is that your idea of reconciliation
4. In regards to previous laws and the Koch brother...two ...more
By razza5350 (1910), East Hampton on Oct 7, 13 9:36 AM
You don't understand, because you lack proficient reading skills.

1. Members of both parties crafted the bill. So yeah, that's bipartisan.
2. It's a fee in Virginia for lacking auto insurance, it's a tax with the PPACA and health insurance. The segue was fiscal responsibility legislation. Laws requiring fiscal responsibility ARE in the best interests of the general welfare.
3. That's not what reconciliation means when drafting bills. See Healtcare and Education Reconciliation ...more
Oct 7, 13 12:59 PM appended by Mr. Z
People like to say you can't legislate moral behavior. Maybe not. But, you can sanction and penalize "immoral" behavior. We do it all the time...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 7, 13 12:59 PM
Again.... Right out of the liberal play book.....when someone disagrees with you resort to childish behavior.
1. To say this was a bi partisan effort is a major stretch. ALL republicans want this thing killed and most democrats don't. They couldn't be farther apart on this issue.
2. I almost fell out my chair laughing at this one. A liberal preaching fiscal responsibility......please look up the definition of "spending cut" or "entitlement reform" and familiarize yourself with the word.
3. ...more
By razza5350 (1910), East Hampton on Oct 8, 13 7:46 AM
Laws requiring fiscal responsibility ARE in the best interests of the general welfare. Regulations keeping corporate industry like health insurance companies from gouging your pocketbook DO promote the general welfare.

Soros has decried this "shutdown" and has little or nothing to do with it. The potentially seditious Koch brothers and their "Tea Party" do. Stop deflecting like a petulant child.

I don't subscribe to divisive labels. I gather empirical evidence through extensive ...more
Oct 8, 13 10:07 AM appended by Mr. Z
And, as I recall the 1996 changes to "welfare" under the Clinton administration were "entitlement reform" I stood firmly behind. That sound you hear from the Tea Party is the shredding of the "Social Contract".
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 8, 13 10:07 AM
How about laws that prohibit the federal GVT from gouging your pockets or giving away tax payer dollars? NY ers will soon become familiar with companies like health republic and Oscar. Companies that will have low initial entry premiums thanks to hundreds of millions in federal grants. Fast forward three years and the 30 something execs (who have little health care experience) will be gone with fat wallets and the company will be under water. I could go on and on about all the tax payer dollars ...more
By razza5350 (1910), East Hampton on Oct 8, 13 12:22 PM
What we are seeing is democracy in action!!!!! Congress has the power of the purse and they are using it, The Demokratz have the senate , for now, and their boy Barry in the white house, thank God there are still some in Washington with the backbone to stand up for what is right!
By bigfresh (4542), north sea on Oct 6, 13 5:50 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 6, 13 6:37 PM
When do you think that the House will pass the continuing resolution? My guess is Friday, October 11, in the p.m.
By highhatsize (4146), East Quogue on Oct 6, 13 9:28 PM
What we've got here in today's Congress is what happens when corporate power overtakes the democratic process in a Republic.

Yes, the minority in this country do have rights. They have the right to protest, they have the right to dissent, and they have the right to disagree vehemently at times. BUT, no minority has the right to corrupt the democratic process. This is a well funded extremist minority of the GOP grasping at the last straw they have left, because they have failed via ALL ...more
Oct 6, 13 9:39 PM appended by Mr. Z
Summary
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 6, 13 9:39 PM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Erin 27 E (1239), southampton on Oct 7, 13 12:05 AM
this is the post that got you so angry whats the matter did ud touch a nerve

It is not some much that z@home posts at the same times that is telling.

Its how they/he don't post at the same time, That I find to be,

shall we say interesting

go back and look at the last grouping of there/his posts P@home 10:58 11:02 11:04 11:15 and Mr Z 10:52 10:56 11:48 mayby thay call each other to say I will meet you on 27 east now!

By Undocumented Democrat (366), southampton ...more
Oct 7, 13 12:11 AM appended by Erin 27 E
just for the record hhat is another one who chose not to respond to me yesterday. talk about drive by trolls
By Erin 27 E (1239), southampton on Oct 7, 13 12:11 AM
1 member liked this comment
There will come a day when we ask you nitwits how you like your crow.

Until that day, I'll just sit back and laugh half as hard...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 7, 13 12:39 AM
Coincidence?

You Decide!

<--------In the spirit of unity,I want to buy dinner for he righties here that have been hurling the hatredand vitriol at me,the left and president Obama

how do you like your crow cooked?." By philathome Nov 7, 12 5:38 AM

dnice,I can see that you honestly would like to see your party return to reasonable positions.I hope that you and your party do;there is an element within the republican party that is hurting it-damaging it almost beyond ...more
By They call me (2754), southampton on Oct 7, 13 2:25 AM
Z@home has to be one and the same, thee can't be 2 people that delusional on a little local newspaper website. I would like to know your definition of a Nazi too.
By bigfresh (4542), north sea on Oct 7, 13 6:21 AM
Well, bring some real empirical evidence to the table if you're so smart, and so correct.

Otherwise, how can we take you seriously?

Well, not like many of us take you seriously anyway...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 7, 13 8:40 AM
Z and phil, why do you keep arguing with folks who think you are the same person?

Who looks more foolish engaging in this continuing conversation?

Why fritter away your time and energy?


Keep on keepin' on, posting away in your own unique styles (even a blind child could see this IMO) about the substantive issues that matter . . .
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 7, 13 7:29 AM
2 members liked this comment
Because more people than just them read this forum.
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 7, 13 8:12 AM
1 member liked this comment
you have the same message so who kares jus team up and keep punching.
By local 84 (343), riverhead on Oct 7, 13 8:19 AM
1 member liked this comment
Z -- so?

You and Phil look like idiots letting yourselves be drawn into their gutter.

IMO
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 7, 13 9:19 AM
Nah. I only respond to see their "evidence", which they gleefully put forth like the hacks they are.
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 7, 13 1:01 PM
1 member liked this comment
All of you sound like fools. Both sides could care less what you think. While the goverment is shut down our politicians are eating steak dinners and still drinking 200 dollar bottle of wines. Stop wasting your time talking national politics.
By chief1 (2765), southampton on Oct 7, 13 7:35 AM
1 member liked this comment
Shall we begin an East End "Move to Amend" chapter?

Or should we go with "united re:public", "represent.us", or even "Citizens United Against Citizens United"?

Those are grassroots organizations, not "astroturf".
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 7, 13 2:30 PM
Wow she got you! The little lady with a slam ka dunka ,

Erin said, "i for one would like to hear your definition of a nazi? because i perceive a nazi to be for a centralized government held together by terror. and wouldn't fdr be the father of your movement in which power is also centralized in a federal government.

and isn't your opposition on this thread for a de centralized government since they favor the 10th amendment protected by the 2nd ?

but what do i know i guess ...more
By Undocumented Democrat (2005), southampton on Oct 7, 13 7:57 AM
Who kares if Mr Z and Phil aer the same person he is correct regardless. Jus becuse someone posts the same time and often useing a simeler phrases does not mean jack. Yall betta hope he dose not take his ball and go home leveing you hear to debate me.

Yes We Did!
By local 84 (343), riverhead on Oct 7, 13 8:15 AM
2 members liked this comment
Maher: WWII Vets Not 'The Brightest Generation'

He didnt relly say that did he?
By 27dan (2770), Southampton on Oct 7, 13 8:30 AM
How's RomneyCare working out?

Ask Gov. Deval Patrick...


"As the Affordable Care Act (ACA) takes effect this month, it might be helpful for people to know how its prototype in Massachusetts is working, after nearly seven years.

Virtually every resident in the Commonwealth is insured. More private companies offer insurance to their employees than ever before. Over 90 percent of our residents have a primary care physician. Primary care is less likely to be delivered ...more
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 7, 13 1:30 PM
2 members liked this comment
If the freestuffers had their own insurance, like any responsible person does, the debacle of Barry's ACAwoiuld not be necessary. Personal responsibility to a liberal is like holy water to a vampire, have fun with that Z@home
By bigfresh (4542), north sea on Oct 7, 13 6:06 PM
Pathetic.
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 7, 13 6:09 PM
I see nothing pathetic about that statement. What I find pathetic is that you Philzy still did not answer little Erin's question, seems she stumped you
By They call me (2754), southampton on Oct 7, 13 6:43 PM
Bingo.
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 7, 13 8:11 PM
That statement IS pathetic.

Pathetic and ignorant on a scale which is staggering in the "Information Age".
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 8, 13 12:48 AM
I have been watching this and must say it is very telling
By joe hampton (3391), south hampton on Oct 7, 13 7:57 PM
It is probable that the Koch-heads will find the end of this drama not to their liking.
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 8, 13 6:58 AM
Sometimes it feels like the Tea Party is straight out of a Dickens' novel...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 8, 13 9:49 AM
It will be you that looks like a Dickens character when these unsustainable entitlements crash the whole dam system " can i have some morre please"

But that is what this was all about wasn't it "social justice"

Fools, you have two work for you station in life. anything else will quickly destroy the whole dam system. but that is what the far left occupy crown wants (Cloward-Piven Strategy) well you have done it.you have community organized your way to fundamentally changing the ...more
By They call me (2754), southampton on Oct 8, 13 10:14 AM
"You cannot have health care devour the economy."
~ Former President Bill Clinton

Do we need Medicare reform? Yes.

However we also need a social safety net, especially when "conservative" ideals regarding the "free market" and deregulation destroy the general welfare by imploding the economy. "Entitlements" have increased, because a group of mostly Republicans with a scant few Democrats blew the t**s off the economy. When corporate welfare is double social welfare on a Federal ...more
Oct 8, 13 10:58 AM appended by Mr. Z
And, just for reference the movement to investigate or indict the Koch brothers and the Tea Party for seditious conspiracy has begun...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 8, 13 10:58 AM
We can now add “World War II veterans” to the list of the administration’s political enemies.
Last Wednesday, the National Park Service blocked access to the national memorials and attempted to arrest World War II veterans who were in town visiting their memorial for the first and likely last time as part of a program called "Honor Flight."

Park Service officers say the Obama administration ordered the barricades, citing the government shut down (see story and JW ...more
By They call me (2754), southampton on Oct 8, 13 9:39 AM
Via Forbes Magazine:

Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798

"In July of 1798, Congress passed – and President John Adams signed - “An Act for the Relief of Sick and Disabled Seamen.” The law authorized the creation of a government operated marine hospital service and mandated that privately employed sailors be required to purchase health care insurance.

Keep in mind that the 5th Congress did not really need to struggle ...more
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 8, 13 3:50 PM
I wonder if it covered navy corpse men ?
By 27dan (2770), Southampton on Oct 8, 13 6:31 PM
2 members liked this comment
Considering the law covered private merchant ships, and private citizens engaging in commerce, that would be a bona fide "NO".
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 8, 13 7:20 PM
You may want to re-read the first paragraph. Master or owner of the vessel is referenced, but nowhere did I read: "merchant", "factor", or "privateer" in the wording of the Act. Now, if you were a merchant who owned their own ship, sure, you wouldn't be exempt.

The Act applied "to ships of the United States", not foreign ones. Now, if you worked on a United States ship, and were a non-citizen who paid up, why shouldn't you qualify to be treated at the marine hospitals. Generous in a way, ...more
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 8, 13 8:47 PM
1 member liked this comment
Agree to disagree on this one.

If necessity required it, it probably would have been broader. As it stands, more people probably sought apothecary homeopathic remedies, or priests rather than physicians.
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 8, 13 11:31 PM
Dissent is patriotic. Obama and His henchmen in the Demokrat Party leadership if not held in check would spend us into oblivion. Thank God the Tea Party Republicans have the testicular fortitude to stand up for us and hold Barry Soetoro's feet to the fire. Next up, raising the debt limit ONLY if there are deep cuts in spending. Sequester is working just fine, time to rachet it up. Barry is on the ropes, thank God, there is hope to get some concessions on spending.
By bigfresh (4542), north sea on Oct 8, 13 5:00 PM
1 member liked this comment
Dissent this:

Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance - In 1798

It seems men like Mark Levin conveniently missed this piece of legislation...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 8, 13 5:13 PM
Go ahead and deflect.

Let's see, it was socialized health care, and a mandate.

But, that's NEVER happened...
Oct 8, 13 7:09 PM appended by Mr. Z
And, what part of "The law was not only the first time the United States created a socialized medical program (The Marine Hospital Service) but was also the first to mandate that privately employed citizens be legally required to make payments to pay for health care services" went completely went over your head, or did you simply not bother to follow up and learn something?
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 8, 13 7:09 PM
They paid a mandated payroll tax. Care was provided by the U.S. government, and the infrastructure it built. The ports were on the East Coast back then. There were no American ports south of Georgia, north of New Hampshire, or west of the colonies. And, when the country made the Louisiana purchase, yeah it was extended to sailors on the Mississippi and Ohio waterways. And, a big part of the mandate was because sailors who went to foreign ports were more likely to contract exotic diseases, and ...more
Oct 8, 13 9:05 PM appended by Mr. Z
It would also be interesting to know how many people in Colonial America couldn't afford a doctor visit. I've heard healthcare wasn't as ridiculously expensive back then...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 8, 13 9:05 PM
P.S. "Necessity is the mother of invention."
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 8, 13 9:08 PM
It's a leap for you, because you don't understand what "health care" meant in colonial America. A lot of people still thought demons gave you the dang flu.

I recommend you begin with Wendy E. Parmet, and move on from there.

Remember, "Necessity is the mother of invention"...
Oct 8, 13 9:51 PM appended by Mr. Z
I also recommend the story of Cotton Mather, and Zabdiel Boylston.
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 8, 13 9:51 PM
Good thing I don't act like that when someone calls me out.

I'd never have learned anything...
Oct 9, 13 11:00 PM appended by Mr. Z
Et finale: Agree to disagree on this one. If necessity required it, it probably would have been broader. As it stands, more people probably sought apothecary homeopathic remedies, or priests rather than physicians. Necessity is the mother of invention, after all...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 8, 13 11:00 PM
i am still waiting phillip ~ its been 4 days ~

i for one would like to hear your definition of a nazi? because i perceive a nazi to be for a centralized government held together by terror. and wouldn't fdr be the father of your movement in which power is also centralized in a federal government.

and isn't your opposition on this thread for a de centralized government since they favor the 10th amendment protected by the 2nd ?

but what do i know i guess ...more ~giggle~
By Erin 27 E (1239), southampton on Oct 8, 13 6:34 PM
It is clear that the media is turning on obama's shutdown strategy

the lamestream media’s herculean mission to prop up the president grows increasingly shaky as the reality of his administration’s divisiveness chips away at their metanarrative.

October’s budgetary standoff is taking its toll on the Obama administration’s most important department: its mainstream media press corps.
Oct 8, 13 7:11 PM appended by Erin 27 E
just read that thought you might like it philip
By Erin 27 E (1239), southampton on Oct 8, 13 7:11 PM
Don't worry Erin, Everyone can see he did not answer your very "smart " question. I say you backed him into a corner , Well played.


Don't let him goat you
By Undocumented Democrat (2005), southampton on Oct 8, 13 7:23 PM
1 member liked this comment
Baaaaaaaah!
By VOS (1224), WHB on Oct 8, 13 10:49 PM
1 member liked this comment
I think we may have been looking for the word "goad" in the instance.

Dang speech to text. It was speech to text, right?
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 8, 13 11:02 PM
No sir, Please do not forget I was not born in this country, I waited in line and became a citizen in 1996 when i was 30 years old. I am very proud of my learning a second language.
Now let me ask you a question that I am sure you will evade in some manner. How is it you make fun of my little mistake yet you give a pass to an American born person such as local 84 who IMO sounds illiterate most of the time? is it because I am a libertarian who does not agree with your socialist view points? ...more
By Undocumented Democrat (2005), southampton on Oct 9, 13 12:15 AM
local84 speaks in what is called a vernacular. I'm not sure exactly where it hails from, but I've seen the dialect many times before. Try not to take anything too seriously, or personally when people are making wisecracks. A good passionate argument can lead to some overzealous reactions.

I hate speech to text screwing up my posts. I have mentioned it before in appended edits.

Amongst my friends the motto usually is worry we don't love you if we're NOT messing with you. It's ...more
Oct 9, 13 12:27 AM appended by Mr. Z
And, if you were referring to my views as "Socialist", please refrain. My views are egalitarian, and stand for the promotion of the general welfare. Corruption, malfeasance, and harming the public at large do not sit well with me. At all. Aequitas.
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 9, 13 12:27 AM
vernacular, Good lord man... the guy is an ignoramus, Its not vernacular its called not applying yourself from the 2nd grade up. Please don't make us post examples.

Just go back read his posts and be the bat.
By joe hampton (3391), south hampton on Oct 9, 13 1:09 AM
OK, poor attempt at humor, and I quit lecturing him years ago.

But, if you opine that we begin again...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 9, 13 1:35 AM
There is more wisdom in local84's posts than most recognize.

Don't judge a book by its cover . . . [vernacular]

"Yes we did."
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 9, 13 6:05 AM
1 member liked this comment
Goat, phil, not sheep . . .

(VOS got it right above with the sound effects)
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 9, 13 11:04 AM
Radicals Portraits of a Destrutive Passion

Brilant book a must read for everyone on this site
It is an irony of the human condition, David Horowitz points out in this trenchant work, that efforts by radical progressives to make the world "a better place" have been the chief source of human suffering and justification of mass murder. But his triumph in Radicals is to focus not on abstract ideology of radicalism but on the individuals who have embraced it, and to show how it has deformed ...more
By Undocumented Democrat (2005), southampton on Oct 8, 13 7:50 PM
I already read it and give it four stars, * * * *
The last chapter is mostly about Saul Alinsky and his two most famous long-term practitioners and acolytes, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

By profession Alinsky was a `community organizer, but this was a camouflage for his real agenda, a world-transforming revolution . Alinsky's entire career was devoted to the destruction of America's social order, which he regarded as oppressive,unjust, and in his words worthy of transforming
By 27dan (2770), Southampton on Oct 8, 13 8:20 PM
Gee, I wonder where Saul got the idea that America should not be and Oligarchy, or an Aristocracy...


Republicanism is a political values system that has been a major part of American civic thought since the American Revolution. It stresses liberty and "unalienable" rights as central values, makes the people as a whole sovereign, rejects aristocracy and inherited political power, expects citizens to be independent in their performance of civic duties, and vilifies corruption. American ...more
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 8, 13 10:24 PM
1 member liked this comment
Once you give a dog steak... that dog will protect you even if you are a bad man he will protect you no matter what... so he dose not have to go back to eating scraps.

this adminastration knows it , Phil knows it, and you Z... you know it the most
By joe hampton (3391), south hampton on Oct 9, 13 1:01 AM
dose he?
By But I'm a blank! (1283), Hampton Bays on Oct 9, 13 1:19 AM
"you know it the most"

Please do elaborate.
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 9, 13 1:36 AM
Saul Alisnky again? If that's the best you've got, you're in trouble.
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Oct 9, 13 10:10 AM
1 member liked this comment
Conservative columnist John Podhoretz wrote in a New York Post op-ed published Wednesday that Republican lawmakers are doing "significant damage" to their party's already tarnished reputation by assuming the American public supports their campaign against Obamacare.

Podhoretz's column, titled "Suicide of the Right," points out that poll numbers showing Americans disapprove of Obamacare, combined with the data point that twice as many Americans identify themselves as conservative rather ...more
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Oct 9, 13 10:08 AM
This was great. Served up, deluxe style.

“The party of personal responsibility ain’t takin’ none.”

"Don't fart, and point at the dog."

~ John Stewart, "The Daily Show" regarding Boehner's Stephanopoulos interview
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 9, 13 10:19 AM
From your farter figure?
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 9, 13 11:05 AM
2 members liked this comment
In today's edition of polls the media will collectively ignore, in new AP - GFK polls find that Barack Obama's job approval rating has plummeted to 37%. The President's disapproval rating is up to 53%. , this is the number the media will pretend does not exist as they attempt to manufacture a reality where only the GOP is in trouble over the shutdown.

Served up, deluxe style
By They call me (2754), southampton on Oct 9, 13 12:26 PM
Sorry, but the Stephanopoulos interview with Boehner was damning.

You can't take that back.
Oct 9, 13 1:04 PM appended by Mr. Z
GOP is 4th and long, deep in their own territory. "Goals" often have consequences...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 9, 13 1:04 PM
Propaganda ???
Amnesty Rally allowed CLOSED National Mall
2346 Comments

Several thousand AFL-CIO and SEIU sponsored pro-amnesty demonstrators were allowed to rallying on Capitol Hill on Tuesday afternoon around 12:30 PM to call for Congress to grant legal status to America’s at least 11 million Illegal immigrants
By They call me (2754), southampton on Oct 9, 13 1:50 PM
1 member liked this comment
Mike Doyle's "burn the house" down speech was pretty funny.
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 9, 13 3:49 PM
1 member liked this comment
Hold fast , Barry is on the ropes and the MSM is finally reporting on the petulant, petty way that the POTUS is picking and choosing what to close down and what to remain open, gotta love the National Mall being open for a bunch of illegal aliens to rally , but the WWII monument and Vietnam War memorial are closed to the bravest among us. Barak is toast.
By bigfresh (4542), north sea on Oct 9, 13 5:51 PM
"Ya' right. And later on monkeys might fly outta' my butt."
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 9, 13 10:38 PM
1 member liked this comment
Wow, you've upgraded.

Sensationalist drive by troll...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 9, 13 9:44 PM
And ain't one of 'em got a chance in Hades of being Kaiser Sozay.
Oct 9, 13 10:32 PM appended by Mr. Z
Keyser Soze. Dang speech to text...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 9, 13 10:32 PM
Blitzer: Obama Should Accept GOP Advice, Delay Obamacare
By 27dan (2770), Southampton on Oct 9, 13 10:03 PM
A Washington Post/ABC News poll released on Oct. 7 found that 70 percent of Americans disapprove of Republicans, 61 percent disapprove of congressional Democrats, and 51 percent disapprove of President Obama. A Pew Research survey released the same day found that while 38 percent blamed Republicans for the shutdown, 30 percent blamed President Obama. Another 19 percent blamed both Republicans and Democrats, while 13 percent were unsure who to blame.
A CNN poll also released on Oct. 7 found ...more
By loading... (579), quiogue on Oct 9, 13 11:09 PM
Everybody in Cleveland, low minorities, got Obama phone. Keep Obama in president, you know. He gave us a phone, he gonna do more.”

“You sign up! you on food stamps, you on social security, you gotta low income, you disability…”

“Romney, he sucks! Bad.”

By Undocumented Democrat (2005), southampton on Oct 10, 13 1:23 AM
There's something many of you either haven't thought about, or maybe are just ignorant of. The PPACA has been ruled Constitutional, and is the law of the land. Paying our legitimately already incurred debt is unquestionable by the Constitution via the 14th Amendment.

Have any of you heard of "The Faithful Execution Clause", a.k.a. the "Take Care Clause"?

It is the President's duty to faithfully execute the law. Especially where the Constitution uses phrases like "shall not be ...more
Oct 10, 13 1:48 AM appended by Mr. Z
EDIT: "in IT'S language regarding money already spent"
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 10, 13 1:48 AM
2 members liked this comment
The 14th amendment is fine. but you still have to earn your station in life it dose not and should not grant Privileges.

Like Erin told Hat Head last week It should not be mandatory that the poor have air conditioning when fans get the job done.
By They call me (2754), southampton on Oct 10, 13 8:37 AM
News flash--- There is enough tax money coming in to the federal govt.to pay the interest on our debt without raising the debt ceiling. Stand fast Congress, stand fast! There are three CO EQUAL branches of government providing checks and balances . Congress is the only thing standing in the way of Barry Soetoro seizing complete control of government.
By bigfresh (4542), north sea on Oct 10, 13 6:43 AM
1 member liked this comment
No matter which side of the fence one is on, a recent article by Paul Farrell at MarketWatch was interesting. It concludes:


"Remember, Ted Cruz and the tea party capitalists are not just throwing a temporary temper tantrum that will soon fade. It won’t. They’re part of a long-cycle historical wave that began well over a generation ago with Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman, Alan Greenspan and Reagan. And tea party capitalists are going to keep making life difficult for Obama, Hillary, ...more
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 10, 13 6:45 AM
Yeah its the tea party causing the havoc. PBR explain to me what the Democrats plan is to stop the nstional debt to rising? Didn't the president and Democrats assure us they would work on the problem in August OF 2011? One day we are all going to wake up and find the world will no longer take our currency. The democrats insist on spending money we dont have.
By chief1 (2765), southampton on Oct 10, 13 7:28 AM
U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK

The Outstanding Public Debt as of 10 Oct 2013 at 12:12:49 PM GMT is:
$ 1 6 , 7 5 0 , 3 2 7 , 2 9 7 , 8 9 8 . 3 9
By 27dan (2770), Southampton on Oct 10, 13 8:28 AM
The Republicans are willing to fund ALL of the federal govt with the exception of OBAMACARE, is that clear enough for you??!! Congress is doing the job they were elected to do, stop your boy from spending us into oblivion!! Hold fast, hold fast. The fact that the left is screeching louder every day means congress is doing what's right for the country. Last post for the day---tobe continued.
By bigfresh (4542), north sea on Oct 10, 13 7:26 AM
1 member liked this comment
Oops...

"No Party in Gallup's History Has Been Less Popular Than the GOP Is Now"
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 11, 13 1:55 AM
We need to go cold turkey on all this debt ! The fed has to stop quantitative easing and start selling the bonds it holds... It has to allow interest rates to rise to a market level.
When that happens we are going to have to deal with the fact that we are broke!
Our economy is so screwed up right now based on years and years of artificially low interest rates bailouts and stimulus.

We need to get this debt under control.
By joe hampton (3391), south hampton on Oct 10, 13 8:15 AM
It seems some of you like that a significant amount of people are "voting for benefits"... you want a system were anyone who threatens to take away what is being stolen and redistributed to them is going to lose. They progressives are indoctrinating the young against capitalism.

We need to keep the government shut down till we pass a budget to get borrowing under control and restore freedom.The easy path to power is to promise people something for nothing and blame capitalism and keep ...more
By joe hampton (3391), south hampton on Oct 10, 13 8:21 AM
There's that idiotic idea again that people on public assistance haven't "earned their station" in life.

It's just not that simple, especially since thirty years of crappy fiscal and tax policy wrecked the economy. Why don't you go talk that smack to a military family who needs SNAP because a private sector spouse can't find a decent job, or one at all. Or maybe to a single mother busting her a$$ at two part time jobs, is trying to raise them proper, and still can't afford decent clothing ...more
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 10, 13 12:25 PM
2 members liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By VOS (1224), WHB on Oct 10, 13 1:27 PM
1 member liked this comment
We've had that daily on Capitol Hill for decades.
By VOS (1224), WHB on Oct 10, 13 1:27 PM
1 member liked this comment
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) blamed tea party Republicans for the government shutdown during a CNN interview on Wednesday, saying Congress never had a shot at defunding Obamacare.

“We started this on a fool’s errand, convincing so many millions of Americans and our supporters that we could defund Obamacare," McCain said.

While McCain didn't name names, he faulted members of Congress -- "tea partiers specifically" -- for wrongly telling "millions of Americans" that Obamacare ...more
By witch hazel (224), tatooine on Oct 10, 13 10:37 AM
1 member liked this comment
When will you get it through your head, John MCCain does not speak for fiscal conservatives he is the original RINO. Read Joe's post above yours the tea party just wants to stop spending $ we do not have, Why does that bother you so much?

Your all fueled up on this Koch brothers class warfare mentality thats fine but we need to address the debt before its to late

Do you agree with that or not witch hazel ?
By They call me (2754), southampton on Oct 10, 13 10:52 AM
The long-term goal of only spending what you have is admirable.

To expect to reach this goal in an instant is childish, immature, and passive-aggressive IMO, especially at the risk of tarnishing (actually ruining) the credit rating of US debt.

Most of us live with debt of some kind (credit cards, mortgages, car loans, etc.) which we are capable of servicing.

It is not the DEBT which is bad, but the ability to service the debt.
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 10, 13 10:59 AM
2 members liked this comment
PS -- The entire worldwide economy is built upon the foundation of US debt being 100% trustworthy.

ANY diminishment of this credit rating will reek havoc for decades to come.

What is the old expression about playing with fire . . . ?
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 10, 13 11:01 AM
OK, they call me, John McCain does not speak for you. Well, the queen nutjob of the teaparty most certainly does. Here's what your spiritual leader has to say:

"Well I think if that gets us to where we need to be, it may be something we need to consider, because the one thing we won’t do is put the full faith and credit of the United States at risk," Bachmann said according to Roll Call. "It’s foolish, and I don’t think that’s going to happen."
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Oct 10, 13 3:28 PM
Something just came across my news feed which REALLY caught my attention. It seems that House Republicans changed the rules back on September 30th to prevent the rejected House bill from making it to the Senate floor.

In other words, the House changed procedure using a in what appears to be an unprecedented manner to guarantee that a clean bill would not be permitted a vote.

Here's a little background from one of my sources, and if the Democrat interpretation is wrong, there would ...more
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 10, 13 3:04 PM
It's an archaic unused procedure.

Still using "the purse" as a weapon, instead of a tool.

If that doesn't smack of desperation, what does?
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 11, 13 12:04 AM
Wolf Blitzer speaking about the repeated glitches in the program's website when he said the following:

"They had three years to get this ready. If they weren't fully ready, they should accept the advice Republicans are giving them, delay it for a year, get it ready and make sure it works."

By 27dan (2770), Southampton on Oct 10, 13 6:04 PM
Registered, logged in, picked plan. Saves me $900 A MONTH with a better plan. Now what do you have to say?
By Mets fan (1478), Southampton on Oct 10, 13 6:36 PM
I say mine went up $ 425 over the last year so yours could go down $ 900 no magic trick in that. Just redistribution, and you and Phil love it.

thats what I say, I have more to say but I would not get far in this room.
By Undocumented Democrat (2005), southampton on Oct 10, 13 8:13 PM
Ted Cruz at Princeton: Creepy, Sometimes Well Liked, and Exactly the Same
by Patricia Murphy Aug 19, 2013 4:45 AM EDT


Can a master debater who wore a paisley bathrobe to creepily stroll by the women’s wing of the dorm be the next president? Patricia Murphy talks to Ted Cruz’s college roommates about his stint at Princeton.


"While Cruz’s friends from the debate team foresaw a successful career in politics for Cruz, many of the Princeton alums ...more
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 12, 13 11:41 AM
Maybe I could do it the republican way. Spent $100,000 dollars the last five years on health insurance for twenty five well visits, which I already co-payed thirty dollars. Yeah let's keep waiting. The party of do nothing strikes again.
By Mets fan (1478), Southampton on Oct 10, 13 6:40 PM
2 members liked this comment
When a citizen is FORCED BY THE GOVERNMENT to purchase a product, and the IRS is the enforcement agency we are approaching tyranny. Barry Soetoro is a wannabe dictator looking to turn this great nation into a banana republic.
By bigfresh (4542), north sea on Oct 11, 13 3:59 PM
Someone's brain has been wrung through the Tea Machine...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 11, 13 4:11 PM
Maybe if he wasn't acting like a "freestuffer", he'd have more than two posts a day.

Thankfully, we only end up with a burning sensation in our brains twice a day max...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 12, 13 1:51 AM
ZATHOME: Posting 8 minutes apart, must have hit too close to home with my last post. Being forced by the government to purchase a specific product is giving away our God given right to freedom from tyranny. Imagine the screeching from the left if we were forced to purchase handguns and ammo , semi automatics to be precise, for home defense. The IRS would enforce the new law and no dissent would be tolerated. It would be for our own good, the government knows best. BTW love your self portrait avatar.
By bigfresh (4542), north sea on Oct 12, 13 8:23 AM
1 member liked this comment
Apples and oranges.

If we lived in some sort of apocalyptic, dystopian future which was a war zone and there still was some government there would be no issue with a law everyone should own a gun. We don't.

This is regulating fiscal responsibility. If you refuse to be responsible and not have coverage, there should be penalties.

Heck, if there was regulation and a tax against shortsightedness you'd put the next generation in hock. Do yourself a favor, and if you haven't ...more
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 12, 13 8:51 AM
And the party of too dumb to notice the occasional ninja post within one minute of the other.

But wait, something like that wouldn't prove their asinine presumptions...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 12, 13 11:27 PM
Representative Government:
Kind of funny all the name calling and party defending on these boards. I guess we really do have representative govt. Seems to me that we bicker as if middle ground doesn't exist, yet we are shocked and dismayed when our elected officials act exactly like we do.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Oct 12, 13 2:24 PM
1 member liked this comment
Doubt if this fine insight will change anything here . . .

Or in Washington for that matter . . .

Have a good weekend.


By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 12, 13 3:09 PM
Tavis Smiley: 'Black People Will Have Lost Ground in Every Single Economic Indicator' Under Obama...
By Undocumented Democrat (2005), southampton on Oct 13, 13 12:13 AM
Hey UD, you do realize that between 2001 and 2008 health insurance companies as an industry increased their profits from roughly 2.5 billion dollars, to 12.5 billion dollars.

Their profit machine might have a lot more to do with your premium increases than the ACA...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 13, 13 3:26 PM
Darn right Z. The insurance companies have been getting away with this for too long, all in the name of capitalism. They restrict payments, block necessary tests and cry hardship and they are making out like bandits. What we need is comprehensive reform but that won't happen in the current setup, after all, money talks. We don't need Obamacare which the insurance companies are using as another excuse to raise premiums.
By dnice (2345), Hampton Bays on Oct 13, 13 5:00 PM
Agreed, Dnice. That's been my beef with this from day 1 - the acceptance of Obamacare based on "We hate insurance companies" rather than "This legislation is actually a lot better and affordable."
To state opposition to Obamacare is NOT a defense of insurance companies. Just don't force me to accept stepping in Hippo poop and justify it as bypassing Rhino poop.
By double standard (1506), Remsenburg on Oct 13, 13 6:36 PM
No marlin, it's called "price gouging", and manipulation of markets. Proper health care should not be a "for profit" industry.

You're not a "Tea Party Patriot", are you?
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 13, 13 7:17 PM
Everything is for profit.
By razza5350 (1910), East Hampton on Oct 14, 13 4:14 AM
Yes, we noticed that Jesus charged for his services . . .
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 14, 13 6:02 AM
2 members liked this comment
LOL. great comparison
By razza5350 (1910), East Hampton on Oct 14, 13 11:35 AM
No other country with universal health care permits the participation of "for-profit" insurance companies for two fundamental reason. First, all profit is overhead that pads premium costs. Second, all for-profit corporations produce the same thing, profit, their nominal purpose being irrelevant. For-profit insurance companies' focus of interest will be the bottom line rather than medical care.

One's hope is that rational legislators will change the rules to exclude for-profit participation ...more
By highhatsize (4146), East Quogue on Oct 14, 13 12:24 PM
3 members liked this comment
For profit is the american way. Free market and competition (along with Gvt regulation) determine the price.
"non for profit" makes an organization sound good as if it is doing something for nothing but it doesnt preclude an organization from paying lavish salries or even (dare I say) lobbying. The non for profit organizations created in NY such as Health republic and Oscar were created with tax payed federal grant money. Are you better off with them or the for profit companies like Blue Cross, ...more
By razza5350 (1910), East Hampton on Oct 15, 13 8:58 AM
Health care should not be a "for profit" industry, how very Marxist of you ZATHOME
By bigfresh (4542), north sea on Oct 13, 13 9:02 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 14, 13 6:41 AM
So Zis means you like to argue with guts?
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 14, 13 6:54 AM
Seems the red pen had a thin skin this morning.

A fly regurgitates. Hence the mind reference...
Oct 15, 13 1:26 PM appended by Mr. Z
And, bigfresh wouldn't know the difference between communism, and socialism if a burning bush tried to teach him. Even Marx couldn't stand the way his theories were maligned.
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 14, 13 1:26 PM
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"

~ Samuel Johnson
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 14, 13 6:35 AM
1 member liked this comment
Media Silent as Democrats Take Country 'Hostage' to Demand More Spending

Who are the "hostage-takers" now? Convinced by opinion polls that the media will let them get away with it, Democrats are now refusing to pass a "clean" continuing resolution to end the government shutdown, as well as a straightforward debt ceiling increase, in order to undo the sequester cuts that went into effect earlier this year. They are the ones holding a gun to Republicans' heads, threatening default if their ...more
By 27dan (2770), Southampton on Oct 14, 13 10:20 AM
YEAH.

Because the shutdown has been planned for months by the extremist faction of the Republican party, and the Tea party which was founded in 2002.

Do you fact check, or just work for Politico?
Oct 14, 13 1:28 PM appended by Mr. Z
Veterans Slam Tea Party Politicians For Hijacking Protest Against War Memorial Closures
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 14, 13 1:28 PM
1 member liked this comment
"harmless" may be in the eye of the beholder . . .
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 14, 13 4:50 PM
The march of a million rednecks was really a march of just a few hundred, racist pigs. Confederate flags, quotes like "he is not a president of our people, he is a president of his people"

This is a disgusting era of blatant rascims. Thre is no other excuse. Just look at the extreme rhetoric on sites like this with images of swastikas for avatars.

This 5% of hate-filled racist lost twice and they will lose again.
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Oct 14, 13 4:53 PM
2 members liked this comment
One Confederate flag appears to be correct.

Exaggeration usually weakens one's position and standing, thereby producing an effect opposite to the intent IMO.

"Lord, what fools these mortals be . . . "

Comes to mind.
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 15, 13 11:49 AM
The "Rebel Flag" is not the actual, original Confederate Flag. It's a battle flag, and one of three used by the Confederacy.

The actual Confederate Flag was the "Stars and Bars".
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 15, 13 12:50 PM
phil the point about "exaggeration" was intended to be more general than whether there was one, two, five, ten etc. flags, even if they all conveyed a racist message.

You know, like crying fire too often . . .

I hereby exit this disjointed "discussion" . . .
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 15, 13 2:08 PM
1 member liked this comment
Ronald Reagan couldn't get the nomination under the current Republican party.
By But I'm a blank! (1283), Hampton Bays on Oct 15, 13 2:14 PM
1 member liked this comment
Riiiight, Barry Soetoro's thug in chief Eric Holder is a racist, openly and militantly a racist, but that's OK because he' s on of your boy's boys.
By bigfresh (4542), north sea on Oct 14, 13 5:01 PM
Wow.
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 15, 13 1:17 AM
Obamacare dysfunctional websites

404 Server not found
By 27dan (2770), Southampton on Oct 14, 13 5:07 PM
"I like when people who were wrong about trickle-down economics, Clinton's budget, the need to impeach Clinton, WMDs, Iraqis greeting us as liberators, having two wars 'off the books' while cutting taxes for the rich, Sarah Palin and Obama's citizenship tell me to believe their 'theories' about 'Obamacare.'

~ John Fugelsang
Oct 15, 13 1:33 AM appended by Mr. Z
Republics cannot succeed where Oligarchy exists.
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 15, 13 1:33 AM
Just in: House GOP doesn't have the votes for their own bill; Heritage Action is against it; Rules Committee meeting now postponed...Does anyone on the right have a clue......LMAO
By DJ9222 (85), southampton on Oct 15, 13 5:49 PM
This just in: CNBC's ratings soar thanks to people like DJ. LMFAO.
By razza5350 (1910), East Hampton on Oct 15, 13 7:00 PM
1 member liked this comment
Just in: If CNBC's ratings are soaring as u stated... its not because I watch it....LMAO
By DJ9222 (85), southampton on Oct 16, 13 12:32 AM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By witch hazel (224), tatooine on Oct 15, 13 7:21 PM
2 members liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Oct 15, 13 8:05 PM
1 member liked this comment
And thank you, marlin spike and your fellow baggers for ensuring democratic control of both houses of congress and the White House.
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Oct 15, 13 8:05 PM
1 member liked this comment
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Oct 15, 13 8:05 PM
1 member liked this comment
So "witch hazel" is your real name?
By But I'm a blank! (1283), Hampton Bays on Oct 15, 13 9:22 PM
2 members liked this comment
My real name is Hazel Wilkonson, I've revealed that here a number of times. What's yours?
By witch hazel (224), tatooine on Oct 16, 13 8:02 AM
Nice sentiment, spike.

Give you enough rope and you reveal your true self . . .
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 16, 13 8:42 AM
1 member liked this comment
Two wrongs make a right?

What is this, kindergarten?

Your reference to burning witches at the stake was WAY out of line, and did IMO reveal more than you realize.

[With your consent, I will post an exact quote from a screen shot.]
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 16, 13 2:03 PM
PS -- double standard's post of 10/12 deserves another read:


"Kind of funny all the name calling and party defending on these boards. I guess we really do have representative govt. Seems to me that we bicker as if middle ground doesn't exist, yet we are shocked and dismayed when our elected officials act exactly like we do."

Food for thought, once again . . .
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 16, 13 2:07 PM
Come on, Marlin, you've got to be able to do better than that.
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Oct 15, 13 8:29 PM
Marlin is the stereotype of the puerile right. His "I'm rubber your glue . . ." approach to debate is the fall back for teaparty patriots and 4th graders nationwide.

What he fails to realize is that every time he thanks someone for "jumping through the hoops," he has just made the same leap.

Marlin, critical thinking is not a sin.
By witch hazel (224), tatooine on Oct 16, 13 8:33 AM
1 member liked this comment
Marlin, thanks again for jumping through the hoops for us, very entertaining.
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Oct 16, 13 9:10 AM
A Republic cannot succeed where Oligarchy exists.

PERIOD.
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 16, 13 3:00 AM
No modern era president has done more to erode the middle class than Onama
By razza5350 (1910), East Hampton on Oct 16, 13 7:43 AM
Left to His own devices Barak Hussein Obama would turn this great nation into a banana republic, taxing business to death and driving employers overseas. Those remaining would be forced into subservience to His regime. Couldn't happen right? We are now forced, under penalty of law, to purchase a product, even if you already own the product, His thugs will force you to buy a version He deems acceptable.The Republicans standing up to The irresponsible spending by Obama are in the right , there's ...more
By bigfresh (4542), north sea on Oct 16, 13 7:21 AM
1 member liked this comment
A man who idly defends Oligarchy complains about how the Republic is to be run.

Self introspection is not a crime...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 16, 13 11:00 PM
The pending implosion should be interesting as the rats flee the sinking ship . . .
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 16, 13 8:44 AM
Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-NH) said Wednesday that it's time for Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) to shelve his intransigence and allow a vote on a plan to reopen the government and raise the debt limit.

Ayotte echoed Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) in urging Republicans to recognize that the effort to defund or delay the Affordable Care Act was a nonstarter from the beginning.

"I never signed on to this defunding strategy even though I'm an opponent of Obamacare because I didn't think it was a winning ...more
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Oct 16, 13 9:53 AM
The president's devastating and complete defeat of the teaparty is nigh

"Per Sen sources, Boehner has agreed to take up the Senate's plan and allow it to pass with Dem votes."

Once again it is left ot the democrats to save the speaker and the US economy. We do so with a smile on our faces and an ever-growing eagerness for 2014!

A big thank you to Canadian Senator Ted Cruz and his secret contingent of loons that met in the basement of a taco restaurant. Your plot to ...more
By SidViscuous (26), on Oct 16, 13 10:09 AM
1 member liked this comment
Agreed. Even though I think the ACA is a disaster the repubs should not have used its defunding as a bargaining chip. The Dems want a blank check. Republican leadership should have addressed this months ago. They could have served notice that they were not going to raise the debt ceiling unconditionally unless spending was addressed. They would be in a far stronger postion. Why are we not following any of the reccomendations of the Bowles Simpson plan? Why are we not looking at entitlement reform?
By razza5350 (1910), East Hampton on Oct 16, 13 10:57 AM
The editorial page of the Houston Chronicle expressed some buyer's remorse on Tuesday for endorsing Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) in last year's election.

In the editorial, the Chronicle lamented that Cruz did not take after his predecessor, fromer Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX).

"When we endorsed Ted Cruz in last November's general election, we did so with many reservations and at least one specific recommendation - that he follow Hutchison's example in his conduct as a senator," the ...more
By SidViscuous (26), on Oct 16, 13 11:35 AM
REMINDER: Republicans who have proposed nothing to help the uninsured are upset people can't sign up for insurance fast enough......
By DJ9222 (85), southampton on Oct 16, 13 4:24 PM
Your party is on the verge of extinction, that end is near! America is moving forward, economically rebounded from 2008, Not putting "boots on the ground" in Libya, Syria, and Egypt, ending the war in Afganistan. Shrinking our dependence with OPEC with more efficient vehicles. Finally, health insurance the middle class can afford. These are big issues that are stepping stones to fiscal solvency. Living in the past with a narrow mind is Gone with the Wind. You should have learned that from your history ...more
By Mets fan (1478), Southampton on Oct 16, 13 7:56 PM
3 members liked this comment
phil,
He is "Commander-in-Chief" He need not be IN country to be leading per se.
By But I'm a blank! (1283), Hampton Bays on Oct 17, 13 10:34 AM
In the seven years since President Obama voted as a U.S. Senator to NOT raise the debt ceiling any further, he and his government cronies have piled up seven trillion dollars in crazy new spending that even our grandchildren will have little hope of ever paying off.
We citizens signed no document assuming responsibility for this unthinkable spending binge. We never co-signed any trillion-dollar loans.

Yet as reckless and inexcusable as these people's behavior has been, we never missed ...more
By They call me (2754), southampton on Oct 16, 13 8:31 PM
What's the presidents plan on the debt ceiling? This debt ceiling debate will take place again in January when it expires. This is a president with no plan he has done this three times now
By chief1 (2765), southampton on Oct 16, 13 8:42 PM
1 member liked this comment
chief1, the President has always had a plan, and it was (and IS) the Affordable Care Act.

Please do not blame the leader, when a bunch of childish spoiled brats don't get their way and go on a hunger strike which they expand to affect the entire USA (and the world for that matter).

Time for every oarsperson in this slave ship to start rowing in the same direction . . .
Oct 17, 13 6:36 AM appended by PBR
PS -- Now that the ACA hostage has been released, the debt ceiling can be discussed in a more productive adult fashion. We don't negotiate with terrorist hostage-takers, right?
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 17, 13 6:36 AM
Did you bother to read the PS?

"Now that the ACA hostage has been released, the debt ceiling can be discussed in a more productive adult fashion. We don't negotiate with terrorist hostage-takers, right?"

Emphasis on "ADULT" !
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 17, 13 11:18 AM
you're right, the ACA was not held hostage, but not because the far right was not trying to do so, but because there were enough sensible people involved to resist succumbing to the whims of Ted Cruz and his teabag buddies.
By VOS (1224), WHB on Oct 17, 13 12:50 PM
1 member liked this comment
Ditto to VOS.

And Captn America, ditto to your appended comment about the need for a budget, but NOT to your childish dismissal of the "hostage" point: "that's just a leftist talking point." Such dismissive-ness is not productive, now is it?
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 17, 13 1:15 PM





Rest in Peace, GOP.







By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 17, 13 5:48 AM
You are so right, Captn America. It is time for all righteous Republicans to abjure the caviling compromisers in their party and get behind the inestimable Ted. No surrender. No compromise. If it is necessary to destroy America in order to save it, so be it.
By highhatsize (4146), East Quogue on Oct 17, 13 11:53 AM
You are so right, Captn America. It is time for all righteous Republicans to abjure the caviling compromisers in their party and get behind the inestimable Ted. No surrender. No compromise. If it is necessary to destroy America in order to save it, so be it.
By highhatsize (4146), East Quogue on Oct 17, 13 11:53 AM
1 member liked this comment
And they won.

"Yes we did."
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 17, 13 1:16 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 17, 13 6:38 AM
"You'll get nothing, and like it."
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 17, 13 8:36 AM
The only way to stop Der Fuhrer Obama from spending money we don't have is to hold His feet to the fire! Too bad the establishment republicans caved in and agreed to the plan that came out of the senate. We would have NOT defaulted , there Is enough tax revenue to pay the interest on our debt, that is unless Der Fuhrer decided it would be politically expedient. Deficit spending is out of control and Barry doesn't seem to care, guess He has to satisfy the parasite wing of His base. Another question, ...more
By bigfresh (4542), north sea on Oct 17, 13 2:07 PM
It is over.

Let it go . . .
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 17, 13 2:44 PM
1 member liked this comment
Well, as usual you're wrong as the day is long. I just expect it now. As you may, or may not note "by the numbers", the fallout from the "Great Recession" was really [expletive deleted] expensive. The current administration has dealt with a disastrous economic catastrophe, precipitated by decisions made long before it's existence. It has repeatedly reduced the spending deficit, and frankly change on a level such as this does not happen overnight. But the reduction in spending steadily continues. ...more
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 17, 13 3:23 PM
Just for fun:

Reagan:

1981 -78,968
1982 -127,977
1983 -207,802
1984 -185,367
1985 -212,308
1986 -221,227
1987 -149,730
1988 -155,178
1989 -152,639


Bush 1.0:

1990 -221,036
1991 -269,238
1992 -290,321
1993 -255,051
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 17, 13 3:38 PM
Networks blamed shutdown on GOP in 41 stories --- 0 for Dems
ABC CBS NBC Television
Republicans never expected to get a fair shake in the Big Three networks' coverage of the 16-day government shutdown, but the final tally of stories blaming the GOP is stunning: 41 stories blamed Republicans and zero blamed Democrats.

Nightly, 20 million Americans heard “a version of the shutdown story that could easily have emanated from Barack Obama's own White House,”
By They call me (2754), southampton on Oct 17, 13 3:19 PM
Maybe journalistic integrity is more important than propaganda and talking points to them...
By Mr. Z (11551), North Sea on Oct 17, 13 3:27 PM
2 members liked this comment
"It's not fair! The media was mean to us!" Aww, did the media not treat you fairly, you forlorn little Patriot?

You know who really played you for a fool - your savior, Ted Cruz! This worthless little fascist led you all to believe that he would save you from the tyranny of the uninsured signing up for healthcare provided by private insurers and, when the time came for a real filibuster, he cowered in the corner.

"It wasn't me mommy! It was those big old meanies in the media"

Pathetic. ...more
By witch hazel (224), tatooine on Oct 17, 13 4:51 PM
what is pathetic is how you want free preventative health care for illegals and people who have not had a job in years paid for by people who work around the clock
By They call me (2754), southampton on Oct 17, 13 8:44 PM
When Grover Norquist tells Ted Cruz "you owe your party a big apology" the Tea Party has officially ended! Ted Cruz can now take his rightful place alongside Joe McCarthy and Jesse Helms

The only question is who will theycallme, marlinspike, joehampton, capt'n cruch, razza, and their fellow baggers cling to now that these pathetic sheep have lost their shepherd?

The victory is sweet but will be even sweeter when they nominate Ted Cruz for president!
By witch hazel (224), tatooine on Oct 17, 13 4:45 PM
2 members liked this comment
Healing? Yeah, right. This ain't some lovers spat, this is about the future of American democracy and the teaparty terrorists who have NOT given up their fight to bring down the government. Rock on, Hazel! You freaking nailed it.

You think these dolts have learned their lesson. Just look at bigrotten up above - the first thing he resorts to is the old "Der Fuhrer" bs. No, there will be no healing until the teaparty is completely destroyed! And we're almost there! Next stop, SINGLE ...more
By SidViscuous (26), on Oct 17, 13 5:11 PM
Healing? Love the liberal bumber sticker " Dissent is patriotic" it should be amended to" dissent is patriotic but only if you agree with me" Somehow I have the feeling a guy like Phil and a hard core right winger will NEVER find "healing"

BTW Witch do you actually live on Tatooine. I thought it was blown up by the death star
By razza5350 (1910), East Hampton on Oct 17, 13 5:40 PM
1 member liked this comment
I have decided I may close my business down and move. Maybe to Belize,

I don't need this aggravation. I will decide In two more years when my kids are out of collage.

I will wait see what happens in the mid terms and the 2016 election and if we cant restore the America I fought for in GW2, then screw it . I will not support dead beats who want to destroy the U S Constitution,

How do you like me now
By They call me (2754), southampton on Oct 18, 13 12:26 AM
Go ahead, move to Belize. Move to Belarus, who cares? Your constant whining is bringing us all down. You make your departure sound like a threat, but the only one who would need to face the consequences is you.
By VOS (1224), WHB on Oct 18, 13 1:23 PM
2 members liked this comment
to They call me:

Are you planning on being illegal? What makes you think that Belize would take you?
By highhatsize (4146), East Quogue on Oct 18, 13 3:30 PM
Belize wants you to invest in the country. Americans may be eligible for significant tax relief for up to 20 years. It offers one of the few remaining secure and private locations where you can protect your wealth with confidence. In an age when foreign governments are gaining access to accounts once thought to be sealed, the security and privacy Belize guarantees is certainly an advantage.

Belize also has some of the region’s most lenient residency laws. You can declare permanent ...more
By They call me (2754), southampton on Oct 18, 13 7:13 PM
Please Please Dont Go, Your one of only 13 people still left paying IN to the system.
Oct 18, 13 6:43 PM appended by 27dan
If you go who will pay for HHS's cream of wheat
By 27dan (2770), Southampton on Oct 18, 13 6:43 PM
I am tired of fighting it too, You takers on the left win. Let the 12 million illegals in while your at it and give them food stamps and free health care.

I can always move back to South America and be free. LOL how ironic would that be.This country is screwed 17.000,000,000,000 and they want to raise the debt limit more .You people on the left are delusional.

DO THE MATH, Buenas noches America!
By Undocumented Democrat (2005), southampton on Oct 18, 13 7:00 PM
Obama: "Immigration Reform Can Get Done This Year"

Perfect

DO IT! End this already, Fundamentally transform this country

The quicker the better get out of obamas way let him community organize , champaign and transform the country like he promised.
Oct 19, 13 12:35 AM appended by 27dan
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 18 Oct 2013 at 10:45:25 PM GMT is: $ 1 7 , 0 7 8 , 3 1 5 , 7 1 7 , 6 6 0 . 9 2
By 27dan (2770), Southampton on Oct 19, 13 12:35 AM
De Blasio Will Continue Bloomberg’s Soda Cup Fight

After his campaign sent signals he would maintain Bloomberg’s legal effort to restrict soda cup sizes at restaurants, De Blasio vowed to do precisely that this afternoon.

Perfect - NY city residants are going to vote for this guy and they claim they are incapable of chossing for themselves and teaching there children about making resonsible dicisions so he should choose for them!

Oct 19, 13 12:44 AM appended by 27dan
I think with De Blasio at the helm we can be even better than Detriot.
By 27dan (2770), Southampton on Oct 19, 13 12:44 AM
How tedious and sad. In the face of the national rejection of their irrational faith, right-wing extremists are reduced to whining impotently about how rotten America is; to predicting catastrophe (with unseemly glee) for their countrymen; and to "threatening" to emigrate to paradisaical South America.

One hopes that they reconsider and just move to Florida as a number of their mean-spirited colleagues on this board have already done. It is only fair that America shoulder the burden of ...more
By highhatsize (4146), East Quogue on Oct 19, 13 12:00 PM
1 member liked this comment
Yup.



.......... " . . . . mean-spirited . . . . " ...........


And blind to their own hubris and folly as well.

The grass may look greener on the other shore, but it is just as hard to cut!
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 19, 13 12:05 PM
Quod erat demonstratum.

" . . . . mean-spirited . . . "
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 19, 13 12:10 PM
"Quod erat demonstrandum" is the correct spelling.
By PBR (4945), Southampton on Oct 19, 13 12:18 PM
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