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Nov 3, 2010 2:38 PMPublication: The Southampton Press

Bishop Appears To Win In Photo Finish; LaValle, Thiele Cruise To Victories

Nov 3, 2010 2:38 PM

Defying a wave of Republican victories across the nation, U.S. Representative Tim Bishop of Southampton, a Democrat, appears to have narrowly won his fifth term of office on Tuesday, marking the end of a bitter race that was watched nationally for its implications on the makeup of Congress for the next two years.

With all of the election districts reported as of early Wednesday morning, unofficial results from the Suffolk County Board of Elections show that Mr. Bishop defeated his Republican opponent, Randy Altschuler, by a margin of only about 3,500 votes. Mr. Bishop won 51 percent of the vote, to Mr. Altschuler’s 49 percent, and came just short of declaring victory in an early morning speech to scores of supporters who packed into the ballroom of the Marriott Hotel in Islandia.

“Well, it was a little closer than I would have liked,” said Mr. Bishop, 60, as he began his speech, shortly before 1 a.m., as the crowd cheered. “But I like where I am, and I’d rather be here than where he is.”

More than 9,500 absentee ballots are still outstanding, according to the Board of Elections. For Mr. Altschuler to pull off a last-minute win, he would have to take about 6,500 of those ballots, or approximately 68 percent. While mathematically possible, that would be a stunning turnaround: absentee ballots usually break in roughly the same proportions as the Election Day ballots, according to Ivan Young, assistant to Anita S. Katz, the Democratic commissioner of the Suffolk County Board of Elections.

The final results of the election, including absentee ballots, could take weeks to count, Mr. Young said.

Mr. Altschuler did not concede after the last unofficial results came in early Wednesday morning. He left Watermill Caterers in Smithtown and headed to his campaign office shortly before 1 a.m., after briefly thanking his supporters. “I am so overwhelmed by their dedication,” Mr. Altschuler said before heading to his office.

“We don’t have enough information to decide what to do,” said Rob Ryan, Mr. Altschuler’s spokesman. “We’re going to speak with an election lawyer to figure out the next step.”

Mr. Ryan said he heard reports that there were some problems with the new voting machines, forcing election workers to count some ballots by hand.

Mr. Altschuler, 39, a business owner from St. James, poured more than $2.7 million of his own money into the race and gave Mr. Bishop the most credible challenge of his eight-year political career. Still, it appears that he fell short in his attempt to wrest the 1st Congressional District seat from the incumbent. Just two years ago, Mr. Bishop trounced his Republican opponent, Lee Zeldin, winning by a margin of 58 percent to 42 percent. Mr. Zeldin won a seat in the State Senate on Tuesday.

Mr. Bishop faced a storm of challenges this election cycle, on top of his usual task of running as a Democrat in a district that traditionally leans Republican. Mr. Altschuler outspent Mr. Bishop by a wide margin, and the political atmosphere across the nation was treacherous for incumbents and Democrats. Republicans won control of the U.S. House of Representatives from Democrats on Tuesday, meaning that Mr. Bishop will be working in a new political environment in Washington, D.C.

In a testament to the tightness and importance of the race, former President Bill Clinton stumped for Mr. Bishop during a “get out the vote” rally at Stony Brook University in late October, less than one week before Election Day. A poll by the Siena Research Institute released on October 13 showed Mr. Bishop with a 12 percentage point lead over Mr. Altschuler, although the results on Election Day were much closer.

Audrey Kubetin, Mr. Bishop’s press secretary, said campaign efforts in recent days centered mostly on getting supporters to the polls. She said campaign staffers and volunteers knocked on almost 85,000 doors and made more than 88,000 phone calls since Saturday. “This thing comes down to turnout, and we’ve been working really hard to make sure our supporters get out and vote, get out of the house,” she said.

According to the Suffolk County Board of Elections, 42.24 percent of registered voters cast ballots in the congressional race—less than two years ago, a year when the presidential race brought in more voters, but in line with other off-year congressional votes.

Throughout Tuesday evening and into the early hours of Wednesday morning, a crowd of Mr. Bishop’s supporters gathered at the Marriott Hotel in Islandia to watch the results come in on a large screen. The race remained tight for hours, and the atmosphere in the room remained tense.

When Mr. Bishop finally took the podium, he thanked his family and staff, and said it was “hard to be ebullient” when so many other Democrats lost their seats on both the local and national stages. “What we have to do is dig in and fight back,” he said.

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Joe Hampton Wrote,
Oh where oh where Has Mr Z Been ??? Very quite the last few days
Progress you seem shy today as well, And Phil, High hat Sh Native Hellooo anyone home
Dagdavid,peoplefirst,nelli.....Anyone?
fcmcmann ,yearrounder you all ok?
And I had to laugh, by the way I think I can see 2012 from my window!
Like Reply Report as inappropriateBy joe hampton (376) on Nov 2, 10 7:12 PM
By They call me (2215), southampton on Nov 2, 10 7:16 PM
1 member liked this comment
A generation put a man on the moon.

A generation calculated a calendar.

I'm sure the Mayans threw one H**L of a party when it was completed, and figured they didn't have to start the next one for at least twenty thousand years.

That's all it is. The singular achievement, of possibly generations of a society.
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 2, 10 9:52 PM
Nice to be missed! Sarah Palin avatar? Hah! You've gone over the edge while I've been away!
By fcmcmann (417), Hampton Bays on Nov 3, 10 12:04 AM
Thirteen hours today, twelve yesterday. Got to the poll at 9:55.

National Debt increase by POTUS in constant dollars:

Under Carter: 42%
Under Reagan: 189%
Bush Act 1: 55.6%
Clinton: 36%
Bush Act 2: 89%

Numbers tend not to lie, especially when accurate. Republicans talk a good game, but all they have is TALK.

I hope we don't get fooled again...
Nov 2, 10 9:26 PM appended by Mr. Z
Sorry, 8:55, tired...
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 2, 10 9:26 PM
1 member liked this comment
Bachman was right tonight when she said to Chris Matthews...." We're out of this "nightmare" and "we're thrilled."
I imagine that thrill is maybe not quite so tingly on your leg anymore,"
I feel like the Nightmare is over! I feel better Its been a long 2 years.
First time since 1932 that 60 sits have changed in a midterm ,plus we will have functional control of the senate without the ownership.Healthcare hurt them bad, It was a crime aganst democracy and the people rejected the redistribution ...more
By joe hampton (2975), south hampton on Nov 3, 10 1:02 AM
Watching MSNBC, hah, Joe! Love it. By the way, the nightmare is not nearly over for you baggers, in case you haven't noticed, we kept the Senate - including Harry Reid! And if you live in New York, which I assume you do, our state remains bright blue! Maybe you should move to Alabama?
By fcmcmann (417), Hampton Bays on Nov 3, 10 1:06 AM
Watching MSNBC, hah, Joe! Love it. By the way, the nightmare is not nearly over for you baggers, in case you haven't noticed, we kept the Senate - including Harry Reid! And if you live in New York, which I assume you do, our state remains bright blue! Maybe you should move to Alabama?
By fcmcmann (417), Hampton Bays on Nov 3, 10 1:06 AM
fcmcmann:

You couldn't push through your leftist agenda with a fillibuster proof majority, and we're supposed to believe you're happy that the democrats lost the house and have an even smaller majority in the Senate?

Since you seem to be on the edge of cognitive breakdown, I would advise some standard liberal catharsis as therapy...start by name calling (oh, wait, you got that with "baggers", burn an American flag, embrace Al Queda and whisper in thier ear "I understand, I hate ...more
By RealityFirst (597), Bridgehampton on Nov 4, 10 8:58 AM
Job shipping Randy is going to have to ship his own job back to India.
By Steven (113), Westhampton on Nov 3, 10 3:54 AM
Thank you to the Press for calling every race correctly.
By EastEnd68 (888), Westhampton on Nov 3, 10 6:54 AM
1 member liked this comment
you don't know politics if you are lib and are happy today! upon the recount and the absentee ballots, you will see it even get closer between bishop and altschuler. if you think camp bishop is happy about being in charge of a group whereby 50% of the inhabitants voted against him, think again. he's lost his mommy, boehner is his boss and he will be ousted in Phase II of what was always a 2 part plan here. only a nutcase can be thrilled about losing 60 seats in the house and it was understood ...more
By mackt (73), montauk on Nov 3, 10 6:57 AM
Everyone you voted for today LOST !!!!!!!!!!! Also your not a racist calling the president a muslim indonesian prez. Mackt the more you post the more you are recruting for the left !
By Mets fan (955), Southampton on Nov 3, 10 7:46 PM
Obviously, we are dealing with a wildly educated, and worldly man.

From another planet...
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 3, 10 8:21 PM
whooopie! A righty took obama's seat in IL, the balance of power has shifted immeasurably and this, folks, this is what it was alllll about:

Krauthammer: 'Obama Agenda is Dead,' 'He Tried a 2-Year Experiment in Hyper-Liberalism and the Country Has said No'

God Bless America.
By yessiree (78), Southampton on Nov 3, 10 7:04 AM
You can look at it any way that you like, but the dems were dealt a hard blow today, Yesterday's election, as quoted from the NY Times "places the party back in the driver’s seat in terms of policy".
By Academics (14), Southampton on Nov 3, 10 7:09 AM
Bishop won by a few hundred votes to the outsourcer from somewhere else...what does that say about him today!? he may have his job, but he has lost his people. If you voted for him, he won't know whether to thank you or regret that. But he's going to see exactly what it means to be a representative now. Keep on him people! 2 years and he runs again, he can't do much damage now, he's been scared straight. and for good reason. perhaps that disdain and disrespect he holds for us know will change ...more
By yessiree (78), Southampton on Nov 3, 10 7:09 AM
1 member liked this comment
Congrats to Congressman Bishop! Even in an atmosphere as toxic as this the voters of district 1 remembered what you have done for us.
By dagdavid (646), southampton on Nov 3, 10 7:21 AM
1 member liked this comment
Indeed, propaganda is not History.

Seems people learn more of the former, however. It would explain the "close call".

As I recall, it was a Republican controlled Congress that lit the fuse for the "Great Recession"...
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 3, 10 8:24 PM
Grayson gone, Pelosi Gone and 37 Big Electoral State Governor State Houses went (R). Lots of (D) strongholds that we don't even talk about fell. The Tea Party, with no national de facto leader, was the only story yesterday. Kudos to everyone who was reasonable and acknowledged that Bishop would most likely keep his seat in a razor thin margin. We were all correct. The Universe has changed...and the electorate was never going to say that we love the republicans, it is a vote against obama. ...more
By mackt (73), montauk on Nov 3, 10 7:42 AM
1 member liked this comment
The universe hasn't changed in New York. The governor elected is democrat. Two senate races both elected are democrat. Your local representative elected is a democrat. The tea party is still just a vocal minority. After a couple of years of doing nothing but creating gridlock it will fade away. Sarah Palin in 2012, REALLY!
By Mets fan (955), Southampton on Nov 3, 10 9:12 AM
LOL thats right the universe of being bankrupt, broke and having a bloated NY state GVT hasnt changed. Same ole same ole
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 3, 10 10:41 AM
It would be Hillary Clinton, WELL before Palin sitting in the Oval Office.

Let's keep a grip on reality, people!
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 3, 10 8:26 PM
Unbelievable, how liberal the East End has become can't believe this socialist got reelected
By reality 101 (137), East Hampton on Nov 3, 10 7:51 AM
1 member liked this comment
With the exception of upstate Ny has been always been that way. Thats why NY is one of the poorest run states in the Union. I was very dissappointed to see Frank and Reid win but at least sanity has been restored in the house
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 3, 10 10:43 AM
1 member liked this comment
You have NO idea what Socialism is, do you?
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 4, 10 2:33 PM
1 member liked this comment
Another election, another wave, but an extremely important win for Long Island! Congratulations, Congressman Bishop, Senators Gillibrand and Schumer and our most excellent new governor Cuomo.
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Nov 3, 10 8:05 AM
3 members liked this comment
Glad to see some common sense in this election. People took a bona fide represenative over a "it's all about me" interloper! Yea Tim!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By summertime (589), summerfield fl on Nov 3, 10 8:12 AM
3 members liked this comment
Elections and democracy are the essence of who we are as a people. Congratulations to the Republican Party with their wins across the nation. Also, congratulations to Congressman Bishop who is going to retain his seat in such a climate. It is a credit to him and the work that he does for the 1st Congressional district of New York.
Let’s remember that we are one people, and we have more similarities than differences.
God bless this great nation of ours!
By SHNative (554), Southampton on Nov 3, 10 8:16 AM
1 member liked this comment
According to all other news sources I have seen this morning, Biship has not been declared the winner as of yet.
By Mrs.Sea (252), Sag Harbor on Nov 3, 10 8:40 AM
Give it up ,the job outsourcer, carpet and tea bagger lost. In an economy desperate for jobs you come up with a job outsourcer. Who was the brains behind that one. A centrist republican could have probably won.
By Mets fan (955), Southampton on Nov 3, 10 9:18 AM
Breaking News: November 3rd, Yaphank, NY. New York State officials declare NY District 1 too close to call. No winner declared, could take 72 hours as absentee ballots, primarily from military installations are being tallied.
By dylan32 (64), east hampton on Nov 3, 10 9:41 AM
All voter machines are being re-canvassed. State regulations mandate this because the margin between the two candidates is within those that dictate a closer look.
By dylan32 (64), east hampton on Nov 3, 10 9:49 AM
It's a shame that Bishop didn't win by a larger margin. That being said, the elections ran pretty much as predicted, the big surprises being that good ol' Joe Miller in Alaska, who ran on a platform of repealing all the national social welfare programs enacted since 1930, will apparently not be around for sound bites. And Harry Reid won!

However, since it is quite clear as a result of the National Healthcare Bill that no legislation can be passed on Capitol Hll without at least 60 senators ...more
By highhatsize (3364), East Quogue on Nov 3, 10 10:29 AM
2 members liked this comment
guess that Sienna Poll you were touting was a little off. again this article from the Press stinks. 7% of vote in and they declare Bishop the winner. Does anyone have any better information than this rag of a paper?
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 3, 10 10:46 AM
I tell you what high, We will be happy to trade Joe Miller for that piece of human garbage Alan Grayson!
By 27dan (2191), Southampton on Nov 4, 10 10:26 AM
Thinking that one politician is better than another is a delusion. They all suck. The only difference is some suck more than others. The big losers in this election are US citizens.
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 3, 10 10:42 AM
cry baby. im sue you werent saying that in 08
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 3, 10 10:47 AM
Are you illiterate or just stupid?
By Noah Way (450), Southampton on Nov 4, 10 11:53 AM
Bishop...Bah Humbug! Timmy you really shouldn't be that happy, because, at least 50% of the people DON'T LIKE YOU & YOUR POLITICS....Hope you get the message Timmy. If you are re-elected (don't know yet), for cripes sake lisen to the people in your District for a change. You are the perfect example of what's wrong in politics today, you have become an asswipe for the party and people just pointed that out. If this voting hasn't been a wake-up call next time you surely won't prevail...we'll all be ...more
By The Crow's Nest (56), Red Creek on Nov 3, 10 11:08 AM
2 members liked this comment
What a gracious comment1 What a noble loser! You set us a new standard, Crow's Nest.
By Turkey Bridge (1773), Quiogue on Nov 3, 10 1:21 PM
Sorry, should be "comment!" Bit tired from the campaign trail.
By Turkey Bridge (1773), Quiogue on Nov 3, 10 1:28 PM
so judging by the rest of the nation, the voters of NY, Cali, Conn, and Nevada are either gluttons for punishment, completely clueless, or hopelessly liberal?
By reality 101 (137), East Hampton on Nov 3, 10 11:11 AM
1 member liked this comment
Hey Mets fan who gives a rats A_ _ about NY The referendum on obama is complete the people spoke. NY will always be a toilet Its a beautiful day!
By joe hampton (2975), south hampton on Nov 3, 10 11:32 AM
That's why you live here.
By Mets fan (955), Southampton on Nov 3, 10 12:29 PM
the people of this state are clueless I guess they like paying taxes up the yin yang to support all the failed gov. programs what is it going to take for these people to figure it out. just unbelievable Ny is an embarrassment
By reality 101 (137), East Hampton on Nov 3, 10 11:39 AM
What happened to the wholesale rejection in New York State, you not only didn't lose, you got your clock cleaned[a favorite expression of tea-baggers on this web site]. I guess your shot at importing deep-south idealogies failed miserably in New York. Wave your rebel flag somewhere else.
By Mets fan (955), Southampton on Nov 3, 10 12:38 PM
1 member liked this comment
Sorry to have been off the site for a while, but a few of us (OK, a lot of us) have been out pounding the ground for Tim over the last couple of weeks. Looks like it worked. I'd like to say I've missed you all here, but it really wasn't that much of a hardship.
By Turkey Bridge (1773), Quiogue on Nov 3, 10 1:27 PM
Its ok we managed without you
By 27dan (2191), Southampton on Nov 4, 10 10:21 AM
It's the strangest thing to see so much glee over Bishops win or the Rep. take over of the house or who will get it in the neck next time. It's all which flavor Kool-ade you drank. Nothing will change. The rich will get richer, Wall St. will buy the government,and we will never manufactuer anything again. Any tax reduction will be off set by high fees and loss of service, the only jobs will be in compitition with illegals or foreign companies. The middle class will go broke and our kids won't get ...more
By facts man (148), east hampton on Nov 3, 10 1:28 PM
2 members liked this comment
Only a Mets Fan can look at the results of yesterday and feel like they won! That is exactly what it takes to be a Mets Fan! hahahahaha.
By yessiree (78), Southampton on Nov 3, 10 1:35 PM
It was nice to see that lunatic Grayson lose
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 3, 10 1:58 PM
UPDATE: Suffolk County Voting Officials are now saying the this race is again, too close to call. Expect the results to take several days. There is a 3,000 vote difference at this point with THOUSANDS of absentee ballots to count and a review of every single voter form.

BISHOP HAS NOT YET WON. THIS RACE IS NOT OVER.

For all the toiling Turkey Bridge did, sounds like it wasn't enough.

The Staff of Yessiree News is about to call this race in favor of Altschuler.

How ...more
By yessiree (78), Southampton on Nov 3, 10 2:07 PM
So OK they won. So lets see what they got! show those cards. the American people won't like what they see! I think a lot of government employees are going to get cut.
By artizt101 (28), Hampton Bays on Nov 3, 10 2:18 PM
understatement of the day
By loading... (525), quiogue on Nov 3, 10 4:10 PM
Good lets start by cutting the amount of building inspectors south Hampton is carrying by half
By joe hampton (2975), south hampton on Nov 3, 10 8:46 PM
1 member liked this comment
Tim Bishop wins, NY1 Loses. 65 or more districts around the country have more sense than NY1. CONSERVATIVES WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
By kpjc (157), east quogue on Nov 3, 10 3:20 PM
yes, and the misleading part is the whole ''constant'' dollars. It is a pseudo-intellectual mistake to measure it like that. He needs to use something called ''constant'' dollars to make that chart of his look like something scandalous. The people know the real truth. 19%-25% of the population will always be out in left field.

Its the media that cat calls the deficit all the time, but the the math can be reflected in anyway those with the paper and pen would like.

At the end ...more
By yessiree (78), Southampton on Nov 3, 10 3:20 PM
Constant dollars are an economic factor, calculated without inflation, or deflation.

That constant in the above equation, is linked to the worth of a dollar, in 2010.

This above is your brain, without book learnin'.

Any questions?
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 3, 10 6:17 PM
Since 1914, inflation has increased 2084%

Since January 1972, it has increased 431.84%.

Since January 1995, it has increased 45.34%.

In 1920, a dollar was worth a dollar, in 1972, it was worth 25 cents by comparison. In 1998, my dollar was worth 6 cents, compared to my father's quarter.

Any questions?
Nov 3, 10 6:00 PM appended by Mr. Z
And, that info, is straight from the CPI. So, if a house was worth 200k in 1998, and increased at the calculated rate of inflation, the cost would be $290,680 in the "same" dollars. Get it?
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 3, 10 6:00 PM
A house is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. As far as the valuation of the dollar there are tons of reasons as to why it has been devalued. Historically lower interest rates lead to a weaker dollar and stronger stock market. I say historically because the GVT has done everything to create that environment but it ain't working
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 3, 10 6:45 PM
Here goes the busted record:

CSO, CDO, fiscal instruments squared, where do you think 500 trillion dollars of currency came from, that only realistically existed on paper, and devaiued our currency?

That's right, you guessed it, the black file cabinet called the derivatives market. I have a great book for you to read, it came out yesterday. Its called "Griftopia: Bubble Machines, Vampire Squids, and the Long Con That Is Breaking America".

Here is a link to an exclusive ...more
Nov 3, 10 8:04 PM appended by Mr. Z
I mean SERIOUSLY, the Pennsylvania Turnpike was ALMOST sold to FOREIGN INVESTORS. For Providence's sake, what DOES THAT TELL YOU about the deregulation the Republican's passed through Congress? Wake up, and smell the Folger's...
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 3, 10 8:04 PM
"Taibbi has combined deep sources, trailblazing reportage, and provocative analysis to create the most lucid, emotionally galvanizing, and scathingly funny account yet written of the ongoing political and financial crisis in America. This is essential listening/reading for anyone who wants to understand the labyrinthine inner workings of politics and finance in this country, and the profound consequences for us all."

Gets ALOT of good reviews...
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 3, 10 8:45 PM
Think about this razza,yessiree,mact,private america,27dan,dylan everyone single person you voted for LOST. It's great that their is momentum on the right. I would surely love to see spending cuts. However the right has too many sacred cows. They can't cut defense because that would be too unpatriotic, the right are more patriotic than anyone else.Surely there's no waste or fat to trim there. You can't cut senior benefits because that is the bedrock of your fan base. You can't cut infrastructure ...more
By Mets fan (955), Southampton on Nov 3, 10 7:42 PM
2 members liked this comment
What crack pipe are you smoking? That is one of the most stereotypical posts I have ever seen. Not every conservative believes all of those things. I think where most conservatives have common ground is smaller and less dependency on GVT.
Its true that NY is all blue and if you look at its financial state that is nothing to be proud of. In case you are living under a rock the rest of the country spoke Tuesday and they dont like the Kool aid the left has been selling. You have had unprecendated ...more
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 4, 10 9:24 AM
1 member liked this comment
don't get your panties all in a bunch razza. What do you believe in? I know you are a white supremist based on your posts. You hate everyone that doesn't talk,act,or look like you.You don't fool me. They have been interviewing republicans since the election,pressing them for an answer on what government programs they would cut and not one has given any specific answer. It's pukes like yourself that keeps me democrat after being a card carrying republican for thirty four years. Just post when the ...more
By Mets fan (955), Southampton on Nov 4, 10 10:15 AM
1 member liked this comment
Dont get me confused with razza5351. He is a massive lib who thinks he is on the comedy channel. If you read my posts and consider me a white supremist you are nuts. Personnaly I believe in individual freedoms and liberties. I do not believe one person or party has the right to tell another what to do. I Strongly believe in a limited role of Gvt in peoples lives. I believe the GVT should be required to offer a balance budget and needs to be fiscally responsible. I consider myself a libetarian but ...more
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 4, 10 11:19 AM
1 member liked this comment
I wasnt talking to you and I really dont care what you think
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 4, 10 11:36 AM
I think you mean ILLEGAL immigrants. I have no problem with people here legally and paying taxes. As far as the Shinnecocks my problem is gambling. Granted a casino will bring jobs and tax revenue but at what expense.Gambling is not the most noble way of earning money.
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 4, 10 12:50 PM
Do you have any other impression of our GVT, other than some abbreviation?

With every bubble, dotcom, housing, whatever, money was printed by Greenspan, and the Fed. The TARP bailout was NOT THE ONLY ONE.

Had they just let failure occur, left legislation against conflicts of interest in place (Citibank, as we know it would not exist) most likely we would not be where we are now, and TARP would not have been necessary. Our "GVT" not only allowed this to happen, they ENABLED IT.
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 4, 10 1:43 PM
1 member liked this comment
what you don't get is razza5351 sounds exactly like you.
By Mets fan (955), Southampton on Nov 4, 10 3:31 PM
Congratulations to the chamber of commerce for their purchase of the US House of Representatives. They will be coming to collect soon, Mr Boehner. Will you stand with the American people or your corporate overlords whose stated goal is too make it easier to ship jobs overseas? Only 39% of voters said they were voting against president Obama. A majority of voters said they are more concerned with creating jobs than reducing deficits. A majority of voters said they want to see BOTH parties work together ...more
By peoplefirst (787), Southampton on Nov 3, 10 8:54 PM
Randy lost by 3,461 votes, and he's not going to make that up with absentee ballots. Tim has won.
By Turkey Bridge (1773), Quiogue on Nov 3, 10 9:53 PM
I'll probably get hate mail for this, but I can't help having this nagging feeling like society's collective IQ has dropped a few tens of points.

Anybody else?
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 3, 10 10:31 PM
Spectacular piece of Journalism, and History.

Not to throw stones, but maybe joe hampton should sit down for twenty minutes, and read this. Because you know, the rest of us just don't work hard enough. That's the problem, you know. We're just not doing "something" right, and that's the reason for our "failure".

I got some news for everyone out there. Gen X has not failed.

The world has failed.
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 4, 10 9:24 AM
Time for a confession. The legendary correspondent Edward R. Murrow told his generation of journalists that bias is okay as long as you don’t try to hide it. Here is mine: Plutocracy and democracy don’t mix. Plutocracy too long tolerated leaves democracy on the auction block, subject to the highest bidder.

~ Bill Moyers (11.03.10)
Nov 4, 10 9:29 AM appended by Mr. Z
Sorry, Bill's article, the quote is from Roger D. Hodge, clipped from his book "The Medacty of Hope".
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 4, 10 9:29 AM
philathome, thanks for the link. It made me sad and angry and desperate and hopeful. Amazing piece.

Rather than trying to convince the immovable and myopic right to attempt to swallow the bitter truth, pass this article on to every reasonable person you know. A must read.

As these boards have become overrun by ignorance, fear and hate, I am visiting less and less. When I do visit, however, I have vowed not to respond to those with whom I violently disagree, but instead ...more
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Nov 4, 10 10:36 AM
1 member liked this comment
hey, if you think everyone we like has lost, why are you still raving mad!? hahahah, your dissatisfaction speaks volumes and is as good a sign as anything out there! If you were happy, I would be very nervous...but somehow, all the people you want to call out are the happiest today....we couldn't be more satisfied with the outright rejection on a very real and personal level that was put forth.

for you to think everyone is stupid is a good thing...if you were calling everyone geniuses ...more
By yessiree (78), Southampton on Nov 4, 10 9:30 AM
This cat is just brainwashed by "Constitutional propaganda".

These people have the delusion they KNOW what our "Founding Fathers" would have wanted for this country. Remember that post some time back about the "deep seated psychological desire to be on the side that's 'winning' "?

Here you go:

The article is excerpted from Hodge’s new book, The Mendacity of Hope. In it he describes how America’s founding generation especially feared the kind of corruption ...more
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 4, 10 9:39 AM
Thats good because I am more of a libertarian
By joe hampton (2975), south hampton on Nov 4, 10 10:13 AM
I'd rather not prescribe to labels.

But, then again, Independent, not to be confused with the Republican "Independence Party", seems to be one...
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 4, 10 10:47 AM
Good morning all. Sure does feel different in the neighborhood
By joe hampton (2975), south hampton on Nov 4, 10 10:12 AM
Healthcare being repealed, earmarks being eliminated, cap and tax is dead on arrival, you can forget immigration ''reform'' and here come the reinstatement of the bush tax cuts. oh yes its a great day.

by being called a gullible dumbass by phillys and mr. z....i know how great things must be for ourside.

regardless of what i think...i would never actually write...''i think all democrats are dumb''. it is just too simplistic, embarassing and youthful to write such a ridiculous ...more
By yessiree (78), Southampton on Nov 4, 10 10:49 AM
You can also forget about genuine Wall St. reform, and we will retain the drug addict styled, betting for a quick score type of capitalism that the Republicans burned the economy down with back in 1998.

Ironic how the Republicans deregulated the market, and it imploded within ten years. You are also defending policies and loopholes that allow for coroporations to pay a 0% tax rate, billionare hedge fund managers to NOT pay Social Security taxes on their interest based income, nothing but ...more
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 4, 10 12:28 PM
This is a concept release from the head of the CFTC from 1998. To quote Matt Taibbi, "it reads like Nostradamus" regarding the derivatives market destroying the economy.

http://www.cftc.gov/opa/press98/opa4142-98.htm
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 4, 10 1:06 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By yessiree (78), Southampton on Nov 4, 10 10:54 AM
you just did. hahahahah. you are too much.
By yessiree (78), Southampton on Nov 4, 10 11:01 AM
and dude, you have some little boy urinating with his pants down around his ankles as your avatar. you don't have to respond...hahahahah, i am howling here at my computer.
By yessiree (78), Southampton on Nov 4, 10 11:02 AM
Phil its kinda true. How can you expect to be taken seriously when you avatar is a picture of Calivin urinatiing. I cant read what he is urinating on. is it that Bill Moyer piece on on the perfect utopian Gvt called fantasyland?
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 4, 10 11:24 AM
very mature. You are a real class act
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 4, 10 11:38 AM
an argument? i am too happy to argue. bishop hasn't won yet, you're mad and the policies of the worst president in history are stuck in the mud. the party of NO has been roundly and nationally rewarded for gumming up the works as best they could, and I have a significant amount of faith in my country today. a tea party born out of nothing but a rejection of hyper liberalism is now about to start a congressional caucus. oh no, i have argued for 2 years and I am done. now, i am just enjoying ...more
By yessiree (78), Southampton on Nov 4, 10 11:13 AM
Our friend yessiree needs a little remedial math if he thinks Tim Bishop "hasn't won yet." I'll use round numbers to make it easy: Tim has a lead of more than 3,000 votes without absentee ballots. As of Monday, Nov. 1, there were almost 9,000 absentee ballots. To make up the deficit and pull ahead, Randy needs to win more than two-thirds of the absentee votes, a two-to-one majority of those ballots. Do you think that's happening? Give us a break. Tim has won.
By Turkey Bridge (1773), Quiogue on Nov 4, 10 11:27 AM
Man, I hate cleaning the bathroom, but the bright spot is listening to Griftopia, narrated by Peter Egan.

yessiree, you don't know it yet, but YOU are mentioned in the first chapter!!

Well, not so much you, but what "party" you supposedly subscribe to. It was almost frightening. You were described to a tee by Matt Taibbi. It was like reading a psych profile, that picked the "Tea Party" to peices from it's inception on MSNBC, and really exposes the fallacy it is.

You ...more
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 4, 10 11:32 AM
U do realize that by putting down talent such as blindly regurgitating what come off a blackboard you effectively expose bill moyers as a dope.

And no tim bishop has won yet. Stressed!?
By yessiree (78), Southampton on Nov 4, 10 11:43 AM
Remind me again about the validity of that hurriedly scrawled statement, coming from someone who "regurgitates" Tea Party propaganda?

I thought so...
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 4, 10 12:17 PM
Bishop's win means absolutely NOTHING...it will take years before the democrats have control of the house again..so no matter how he votes he has NOTHING to offer any of us.
By BeachGal (72), Hampton Bays on Nov 4, 10 11:53 AM
That's a rather short sighted point of view.

Same old, same old. Forget all the " that a boy's", and condemn someone for major problems there is little real control over.

Right...
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 4, 10 12:39 PM
It was fun to watch obama walk a tightrope as he sought to explain the results of the election as well as chart a new legislative path in a congressional landscape far more hostile to his agenda.Yes I can see 2012 from my window
By They call me (2215), southampton on Nov 4, 10 11:54 AM
You are correct BeachGal you Mommy Grizzly, The gubernatorial races were especially important this year. Governors will play important roles in 2012 presidential politics, especially in swing states, and governors next year will participate in redistricting of congressional and legislative seat to reflect the 2010 census. This will make it almost impossible for the Dems to regain congress till at least 2021
By They call me (2215), southampton on Nov 4, 10 12:01 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Erok, Southampton on Nov 4, 10 12:34 PM
funny thing is Obama has poured over a trillion of tax payer dollars trying to create jobs. Whether right or wrong Rand Paul disagrees and favors using tax beaks and incentives to stimulating the economy.
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 4, 10 12:45 PM
After listening to the Tea Party propaganda thoroughly, I felt like Lewis Black, and I didn't have enough bread crumbs left to get back home...
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 4, 10 12:46 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Erok, Southampton on Dec 29, 10 6:41 PM
Whats funny about unions and the goverment getting the hell out of the way
By joe hampton (2975), south hampton on Nov 4, 10 1:01 PM
It would be far better to make the Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 permanent, to reduce the tax rate on corporate income and estates to zero, and to limit government at the federal level to the powers granted to it by the people and the Founders of our compound republic.but that flies in the face of the whole soak the rich and equal distribution of misery agenda of the left. Can't have that, now can we? Let the free market work !
By joe hampton (2975), south hampton on Nov 4, 10 1:08 PM
The "free market" as we know it DOES NOT WORK.

Ask Greenspan, if he'll even admit it. You cannot disallow failure, inject capital, reduce interest rates, and expect inflation not to take of like the SR-71 Blackbird.

Where is all that unsustainable capital injected by Greenspan? Oh, that's right, he raised interest rates SEVENTEEN times before he left office, and ARM mortgages he thoroughly backed destroyed the housing market with the increase in rates.

Ask Citibank how ...more
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 4, 10 1:48 PM
uh I think I said Free Market that would include putting a stop to the federal reserve and getting back on the gold standard, Tossing the IRS for a fair tax and NO MORE BAILOUTS! Wall Street Included. Social security as to go for anyone not already collecting, everyone else should receive a credit for $ already stolen in the form of tax credits. Stop the BS America lets get back to business
By joe hampton (2975), south hampton on Nov 4, 10 2:38 PM
disallow failure,inject capital, reduce interest rates..all economic polices endorsed by Obama.
ARM mortgages and more importantly subprime mortgages were created due to Clintons expansion of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. These lending instruments allowed people to buy homes short term who could not afford it long term. Clinton was in charge and endorsed these policies. The time bomb occured on Bush's watch and he too should be held accountable
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 4, 10 2:44 PM
Joe tossing ss# will never happen. Most people have it as their only source of retirement income. Unfortunately people are too short sighted, undisciplined, and they fail to save. I do like the idea of eliminating our current tax structure in favor of a flat tax coupled with a consumption tax with a higher tax on luxury goods, ciagrettees and non healthy foods.
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 4, 10 3:17 PM
Amen
By joe hampton (2975), south hampton on Nov 4, 10 5:46 PM
We have alot more facing us than just that, and Joe, those are alot of great ideas. Nixon would probably spin in his grave, but the gold standard would grant stability, and sanity. As far as Social Security, that can't happen, because there is no money in the coffers. Just a pile of paper T-Bills. Flat tax would be awesome, expect the billionare hedge fund heiarchy to flood Washington with money, and kill it. It just wouldn't suit the lifestyle they have become accustomed to.

razza5350, ...more
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 4, 10 7:39 PM
You want a boiled down expose on damn near 100% of what went wrong since the dot.com bubble? Why we have had a government for Goldman-Sachs, and BY Goldman-Sachs? It has been purely CRIMINAL. See Chapter 6:

http://www.amazon.com/Griftopia-Machines-Vampire-Breaking-America/dp/0385529953

Just, wow...
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 4, 10 9:01 PM
Hey Joe Philais gonna lecture us about wasting $ LOL read this Communications set-up, nuclear button, a fleet of limousines and majority of the White House staff will be in India accompanying the President on this three-day visit that will cover Mumbai and Delhi
He will also be protected by a fleet of 34 warships, including an aircraft carrier, which will patrol the sea lanes off the Mumbai coast during his two-day stay there beginning Saturday.
Arrangements have been put in place for emergency ...more
By 27dan (2191), Southampton on Nov 4, 10 1:33 PM
what a turn of events, now I am arguing about how great everything is and my antagonists are arguing about how the voters are stupid and the country is all screwed up.

That was a 180 degree switch in 1 day. Oh, you bet I'm happy. And, now, I'm off. But someday I'll be back, when the country needs me again.

My last bit of advice to Boehner? Tell 'em to shove the olive branch!

God Bless to you (yes, even philatome) and May God Continue to Bless the United States of ...more
By yessiree (78), Southampton on Nov 4, 10 1:40 PM
The people are a fickle lot, indeed...
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 4, 10 4:48 PM
Its a nice day today huh Yessiree, Rain is good for the trees, I think I will go to the gym maybe stop by Starbucks.
By joe hampton (2975), south hampton on Nov 4, 10 1:46 PM
Remind me again when I haven't said "this country is all screwed up"?
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 4, 10 1:49 PM
Congratulations to Congressman Bishop who is going to retain his seat in such a hostile climate. It is a credit to him and the work that he does for the 1st Congressional district of New York.
Let’s remember that we are one people, and we have more similarities than differences.
God bless Tim Bishop and this great nation of ours!

By SHNative (554), Southampton on Nov 4, 10 1:50 PM
Thank you to all candidates for a lively and spirited debate!

It is time in my opinion for everyone to pick up his or her oar, and to start rowing in the same direction.

We have problems to solve!
By PBR (4822), Southampton on Nov 4, 10 2:19 PM
1 member liked this comment
unfortunately I dont see it happening. The left and rights idealogies are too different. Obama has ignored the right over the past two years (CSPAN debates on health care...open doors...yeah right) because the dems have controlled the house and senate. Still they have accomplished nothing substantial except spend a ton of our money. Unless Obama is willing to brush aside his huge ego or some republican leader like Boehner steps up we will have more of the same diviseveness. It will most likely ...more
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 4, 10 2:34 PM
1 member liked this comment
So what are we to do about Big Money in politics buying off democracy? I can almost hear him (Howard Zinn) throwing that question back at us: “What are we to do? ORGANIZE! Yes, organize—and don’t count the costs.” Some people already are. They’re mobilizing. There’s a rumbling in the land. All across the spectrum people oppose the escalating power of money in politics. Fed-up Democrats. Disillusioned Republicans. Independents. Greens. Even Tea Partiers, once they ...more
Nov 4, 10 5:03 PM appended by Mr. Z
http://www.truth-out.org/bill-moyers-money-fights-hard-and-it-fights-dirty64766
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 4, 10 5:03 PM
A great victory for Tim and the entire east end.
By EastEnd68 (888), Westhampton on Nov 4, 10 4:35 PM
1 member liked this comment
This just in...has anger control issues.
Face it, Bishop was the better candidate. Even with the millions of dollars that Randy outsourcer poured into this race he and you couldn't win.
That is because Tim Bishop is a man of the the people and he will continue to work hard for the people of the 1st Congressional district in New York.
Congratulations Congressman Bishop!
By SHNative (554), Southampton on Nov 4, 10 8:12 PM
1 member liked this comment
There is going to be an official notice of a recount. Stay tuned. To date, the fat lady has not sung.
By dylan32 (64), east hampton on Nov 4, 10 9:29 PM
To the person above. That is not all the anomalies we have found. The Press would be doing its readers a service to change this headline and conduct a journalistic investigation to what has been found. There is more to this than meets the eye. When pro Bishop Union Members handle the voting machines and the voting machines mysteriously don't take votes for Altschuler, but somehow don't have the same problem for the democratic candidate, it is very suspicious.
By dylan32 (64), east hampton on Nov 5, 10 6:41 AM
in other words, the folks on this website and elsewhere that have proclaimed Bishop the winner are premature.
By dylan32 (64), east hampton on Nov 5, 10 6:45 AM
why battle your hyperbole and spin,
By joe hampton (2975), south hampton on Nov 5, 10 10:17 AM
Like Joe Friday said Just the facts Ma'am Just the Facts
By joe hampton (2975), south hampton on Nov 5, 10 10:19 AM
From Eugene Robinson of the Washington Post

"Washington - Losing elections is an occupational hazard for politicians, so there's no need to get all weepy about the Democratic officeholders who suddenly find themselves with more time to spend with their families. It would be more appropriate to shed a tear or two for the future of the country, what with the tea party brigade coming to town. Then again, I was pretty gloomy after the 1994 midterms and yet it turned out that the world did ...more
By progressnow (556), sag harbor on Nov 5, 10 12:14 PM
1 member liked this comment
Regulate Wall St. .

PERIOD.
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 5, 10 2:10 PM
Remind me again, how the upper 1% have increased their share of the country's wealth from 34.6% in 2007, to almost 38% in 2010?

By pitting us against eachother...
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 5, 10 1:38 PM
And, Joe, explain how we can abolish the Treasury, with the pending threat from foreign SWF funds.

We can't go back to the gold standard, the world, and the "free market" are too far gone from it, to do it in less than a century.
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 5, 10 1:50 PM
I'm going to say something 'radical;. The "Tea Party" is not all wrong. Most of them, are not crazy. What they are, and they don't realze it, is an anachronism.

They are fighting a 1960's battle, in a world run by 21st century crooks."

Nov 5, 10 1:57 PM appended by Mr. Z
Matt Taibbi, "Griftopia" (2010)
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 5, 10 1:57 PM
This comment has been removed because it is a duplicate, off-topic or contains inappropriate content.
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 5, 10 2:40 PM
Maybe so Z but I think you would agree that Sunlight is the best disinfectant. And obamas promises of transparency was a lye
By joe hampton (2975), south hampton on Nov 5, 10 8:45 PM
We commend "Mets Fan" & "Phitathome" for their common sense statements. They also seem to have somewhat non-partisan views as to what is best for our great country.
Do we now have to be hearing, blah,blah, blah, that "socialism" is the big,big bug-a-boo? Spare us your ignorance and easily conned personality.
Personally, we two seniors are rooted in a Judeo/Christian view toward other people and life. We can hardly stomach the sad results of 02Nov.
Hooray for Bishop and other ...more
By picky seniors (1), East Hampton on Nov 5, 10 2:40 PM
1 member liked this comment
Thanks for the nod to all of us who post "common sense".

Though I may seem like a "crackpot", I understand you know them, but not me.
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 5, 10 2:43 PM
Bonafide Independent.

Period.
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 5, 10 2:54 PM
Thanks Picky seniors that post made my day. I laughed so hard I almost spilled my kool aid drink. Phil is non partisan and he has a picture of calvin peeing on republicans.
Nice to see that smug Olbermann get suspended. Hopefully his brother Maddow will be next and Mr Z a bonafide independent.what is the world coming too.
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 5, 10 3:00 PM
You mean to tell me maddow is a woman?? I would have never guessed
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 5, 10 8:36 PM
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

Above is an interesting article on the various polls, their historic accuracy, and their political bias.

I would still like somebody to direct me to the McLaughlin Poll that had the District 1 contest a close race.

The Siena Poll that had Bishop ahead by 12 points was one of only two that were taken in the eleven months prior to the election in District 1. (Unless there was one by McLaughlin.)
By highhatsize (3364), East Quogue on Nov 5, 10 6:47 PM
Now progress is quoting Eugene Robinson, like he is a some sort of scholar. This guy was the one who was immaturely chuckling the back round on election night while Chris Matthews was trying to humiliate Michelle Bachmann.
By joe hampton (2975), south hampton on Nov 5, 10 8:41 PM
MSNBC suspends Keith Olbermann
Originally published: November 5, 2010 6:20 PM
By They call me (2215), southampton on Nov 5, 10 8:53 PM
This coming from a man who got comments banned 5 or 6 times last week and has an avatar of a 12 year old. I am sorry that was to easy. Oh look I can see 2012 from my window again
By They call me (2215), southampton on Nov 5, 10 9:00 PM
Newsflash after recount so far altschuler ahead by 400 votes. Check newsday and politico
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 5, 10 9:08 PM
Once again this paper gets it wrong
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 5, 10 9:13 PM
Lets see the kindergarten brain argue that
By joe hampton (2975), south hampton on Nov 5, 10 9:14 PM
phil if the real Razza is correct, that would shut you up for at least 10 min
By joe hampton (2975), south hampton on Nov 5, 10 9:15 PM
Hey dimmy if you didn't have a guaranteed pension for life paid for by the same taxpayers you have been screwing I would tell you to start looking for a job
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 5, 10 9:24 PM
Don't have the link but I'm looking right at it. I'm being truthful
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 5, 10 9:36 PM
We will see. Article is by Maggie HaBerman at politico
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 5, 10 10:29 PM
Please don't cry
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 5, 10 10:33 PM
Absentee ballots have not been opened yet. The change was based on a recanvass of machines. On election night the machine totals are telephoned in from the various election districts. In a close race it only takes a couple of districts to call in wrong number (usually transpositions -- 3500 is phoned in when it should have been 5300). The machines are brought back to Yaphank and they then read every machine with reps from Bishop and Altschuler there. The result of the recanvass is the official ...more
By mrmako61 (148), southampton on Nov 5, 10 10:43 PM
No Altschuler is ahead right now based on the machine vote only -- without absentees. Channel 12 just announced it. Bishop will have to receive 400 + more absentee votes than Altshuler to win. They will begin counting those ballots on Monday. Bishop will probably win the absentee vote because of the composition of the absentee ballots received and waiting to be counted. Plus, historically, even when Bishop was winning elections by wide margins he always, at best, broke even on the absentees.
By mrmako61 (148), southampton on Nov 5, 10 10:52 PM
Not sure about that mr mako. Bishop was pushing hard on abstentees but they normally go repub due tol military
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 5, 10 11:23 PM
Must admit bishop losing would be the icing on the cake
By razza5350 (1867), East Hampton on Nov 5, 10 11:24 PM
Holy S_ _ _ Razza this is crazy see you in the morning , Dont have to many nightmares Phil Bishop now behind ?? lol
By joe hampton (2975), south hampton on Nov 6, 10 12:24 AM
Bechtel, and Bolivia.

Now, there are some facts...
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 6, 10 1:46 PM
phil stop calling us crazy because we don't believe in your socialist utopia. The people spoke now stop throwing a sissy fit
By 27dan (2191), Southampton on Nov 8, 10 6:27 PM
The people who work for a slave wage in retail, most likely would not see things your way, dan.

And there are alot more of them, than there are of you...
By Mr. Z (9651), North Sea on Nov 8, 10 6:34 PM
Please pick up your oar and start rowing together !!!

Peace on Earth.
By PBR (4822), Southampton on Nov 9, 10 5:39 PM
Remnants, area rugs, rolls in stock